Should weapon attachments only spawn on guns?

[King Raptor 191]

I could care less how optics spawn, can everything just be rare?

 

I can have a 75 round drum magazine in roughly one or two hours of playing. How is this acceptable, in the damn apocalypse?

Exactly, everyone knows a 75-round drum should not be available until 3 hours into the apocalypse!

 

Maybe we should all stop pretending that we would know what exactly would be available in Russia after an apocalypse of any kind?

[gibonez 3633]

Exactly, everyone knows a 75-round drum should not be available until 3 hours into the apocalypse!

 

Maybe we should all stop pretending that we would know what exactly would be available in Russia after an apocalypse of any kind?

 

Just take it for what he ment.

 

It is far too easy right now due tot he current way accesories spawn seperately to not only find a military weapon but to fully kit it out.

 

Only way to stop this is to limit how often accessories spawn and thats still a big maybe or to just restrict accessories to spawning with weapons in ultra rare chances.

 

This would also fix the problem with unrealistic attachments on weapons or unlikely attachments.

 

No longer would having every single mosin take a LRS be completely unrealistic but instead finding one would mean that someone took the time to modify an old mosin to take modern optics.

 

Generally this is just a good way to limit optics something that should by all means be the rarest and hardest things to find in a post apocalyptic environment.

 

These things would be the first to break and get damaged thus making them daam near impossible to find when actually looking for one is critical.

[Katana67 2907]

Because the person wants a high cap rifle with optics. Instead of just picking up optics like now and slapping them on whatever weapon you happen to find first attaching optics on weapons would involve more though.

 

Yea and the most realistic spawn location for many of these accessories is on a gun. You won't be finding pu scopes in random garages you would find them mounted on rare mosins that have bent bolts. You will not be finding pso scopes on top of barrack beds they would be mounted on an SVD.

 

But besides the realism aspect this is just a great way to make things that should by means be rare actually be far more rare than they are now.

 

But that "high cap rifle" (whatever that means) has to, in and of itself, be better than the ostensibly rare weapon you're discarding just to cherrypick the optic off of.

 

If your issue is with how easy it is to swap optics then address that issue. Hence why I think your approach here is entirely off base.

 

You're making a huge, and unfounded assumption, in saying that "the most realistic place to find optics is on a gun." At best, it's backed up by nothing more than anecdotes. At worst, it's inaccurate (one can certainly find optics without weapons, see firearms stores... hunting stores... sporting goods stores... surplus stores... etc.) I won't waste time linking images of this in reality, as you should know it is the case.

 

Optics do not require weapons to be spawning "realistically," that's just your take. So please, stop saying X is realistic without having any evidence to back it up.

 

And even if we should follow "realism" implicitly, it makes for a poor gameplay mechanic as I have just demonstrated.

 

Realism is only worthwhile inasmuch as it enhances gameplay. This is an instance where it does not do so.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

But that "high cap rifle" (whatever that means) has to, in and of itself, be better than the ostensibly rare weapon you're discarding just to cherrypick the optic off of.

 

If you're issue is with how easy it is to swap optics then address that issue. Hence why I think your approach here is entirely off base.

 

You're making a huge, and unfounded assumption, in saying that "the most realistic place to find optics is on a gun." At best, it's backed up by nothing more than anecdotes. At worst, it's inaccurate (one can certainly find optics without weapons, see firearms stores... hunting stores... sporting goods stores... surplus stores... etc. I won't waste time linking images of this in reality, as you should know it is the case.

 

Optics do not require weapons to be spawning "realistically," that's just your take.

 

And even if we should follow "realism" implicitly, it makes for a poor gameplay mechanic as I have just demonstrated.

 

Realism is only worthwhile inasmuch as it enhances gameplay. This is an instance where it does not do so.

 

I disagree.

 

I would find the gameplay far more immersive if optics and other accessories were far rarer and if they only came in specialized versions of guns that were prebuilt.

 

It is not like you lose the ability to remove the optics and parts and attach them on other weapons in different configurations you would absolutely still have that option.

 

The only thing that changes is optics and certain accessories become far more rare and the weapons spawn in greater varieties with different attachments.

 

I have no issue on how easy it is to swap optics I have an issue with walking into a store or a military barracks and running into this.

 

A random bipod just laying on a shelf for no reason or a 1000+ dollar tactical scope just left on top of a bunk.

 

It does not feel natural unlike 99 percent of the loot in game. It also creates a problem where you have far more loot locations for these parts thus far more of these things around the map.

 

Limiting them only to spawning on weapons and even then being limited would result in better scarcity of optics and high end accessories.

Something I personally think would be good and put greater value on these expensive addons.

[Katana67 2907]

I disagree.

 

I would find the gameplay far more immersive if optics and other accessories were far rarer and if they only came in specialized versions of guns that were prebuilt.

 

It is not like you lose the ability to remove the optics and parts and attach them on other weapons in different configurations you would absolutely still have that option.

 

The only thing that changes is optics and certain accessories become far more rare and the weapons spawn in greater varieties with different attachments.

 

I have no issue on how easy it is to swap optics I have an issue with walking into a store or a military barracks and running into this.

 

A random bipod just laying on a shelf for no reason or a 1000+ dollar tactical scope just left on top of a bunk.

 

It does not feel natural unlike 99 percent of the loot in game. It also creates a problem where you have far more loot locations for these parts thus far more of these things around the map.

 

Limiting them only to spawning on weapons and even then being limited would result in better scarcity of optics and high end accessories.

Something I personally think would be good and put greater value on these expensive addons.

 

1. Okay, that's cool for you! I don't see any loss in "immersion" in having standalone optics spawn in equally as "realistic" spots like hunting stores, barracks, deer stands etc.

 

2. Again, I'm not saying that. I'm saying you're linking two objects and therefore creating one objective in finding a weapon. As I've said before, no matter how rare you make the one item (i.e.  a combined PSO w/ AKM) once you find it you've found everything you need.

 

3. Again, just making the optics rarer... is a far more simple and wholesome solution than amalgamating the weapon/optic spawns.

 

4. Sure, I agree, I want them spawning in more appropriate buildings as according to their capabilities (and to a far lesser extent, their "likelihood" of being in X location).

 

5. Limiting them to rare spawns would also do everything you just said, without screwing over the act of gradual gearing and player freedom (which has become a hallmark of DayZ).

[Bubbled Luff 27]

I don't think now is the time to be judging loot tables, spawn rates etc... there is presumably still a lot to be introduced item- and location-wise, and also a lot of work to be done to the core game. I would imagine newly-introduced items spawn at a much higher rate than they are finally intended for in order for players to test.

Where we are at the moment, I really hope they get the basics sorted out and everything that is intended to be in, in. Balancing the finer points is a way down the line yet.

As far as where we might be finding certain items; realism-wise I guess that depends on how far on from the outbreak we are, how much water has passed under the bridge. A lot of factors will have affected loot-dispersion based on that. How many survivors have been through these buildings already? Died in a certain place, leaving there lootings displaced?

[barnabus 1708]

 

People generally do not store gun accessories they mount them on guns thus it makes far more sense to have them only spawn on guns at very very low numbers.

 

 

 

For a number of reasons, my red dot, butt stock and light for an M4 are stored with my magazines in a pelican case and are not on the weapon itself.  Mostly to protect them from wear and tear..

Edited July 19, 2014 by Barnabus

[Katana67 2907]

For a number of reasons, my red dot, butt stock and light for an M4 are stored with my magazines in a pelican case and are not on the weapon itself.  Mostly to protect them from wear and tear..

 

And either way, places that sell optics do not have them mounted on weapons. They have them in dedicated cases, or on shelves. My local firearms store has a whole 12x4 glass case of optics just glittering on their own.

 

To say nothing of hunting stores, personal storage situations, and military armories (which I've seen do both - store optics separately and already attached to weapons).

 

There's nothing any more or less realistic about having optics only spawn on weapons.

 

The only thing that I'd say would make them more "realistic" in certain instances is if they spawned in some sort of box, hardcase, or packaging. But even then, not everyone has neatly packaged optics.

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

 

First off, we have the mentioned full randomization of weapon spawn configurations. This ranges from attachment configuration, quantity, type, and condition. When functional, each weapon you find should be as unique as possible per that item type. Be it the chance to spawn with a magazine, potential attachment, overall weapon condition, and so on. This expands upon the uniqueness of each persons kit in-game, and ensures that very few two firearms are exactly the same. Who knows, you might get lucky and find that M1911 Engraved you always wanted, -with- a clip!

 

From the latest dev blog. http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/222617-status-report-19-mar-15/

 

Really good stuff each weapon pick up will feel unique. Hopefully this ends up with every single weapon feeling unique.

 

Maybe they might even only have weapon attachments spawn on weapons .

[Heatofbattle 49]

Funnily enough, you also got your wish of there being very few pso scopes in the game. And SVD confirmed and model leaked recently.

You must be pyschic.

[trev186 389]

No

[gibonez 3633]

Funnily enough, you also got your wish of there being very few pso scopes in the game. And SVD confirmed and model leaked recently.

You must be pyschic.

 

It's a good move imo.

[stielhandgranate 480]

Nah. I want to see some people use SVDs without PSO scopes as ad-hoc battle rifles until they come across a scope or abandon it for another weapon.

[gibonez 3633]

Nah. I want to see some people use SVDs without PSO scopes as ad-hoc battle rifles until they come across a scope or abandon it for another weapon.

 

The pso spawning on the svds only does not stop this.

 

They could always remove the scope. Having the svd spawn without a scope would also kinda be unrealistic no? I don't think I have ever seen any in any conflict without one and I do believe they only come issued with them.

 

It would be the equivalent of seeing a m40a3 rifle with no optics .

[galekast 70]

I like the idea personally, especially after reading the dev thing where they said weapons will spawn with different attachments or magazines etc. That sounds like a fantastic idea and finding a partially modded AKM would be great. I think the weapon parts should still spawn though, mainly in the military areas but give them a small percentage chance to spawn in the deer stands, hunting huts, military vehicle wrecks and a very low potential chance everywhere else (like a 1% chance in a house for example to replicate the chance of a survivor having dropped it there)... Although I will miss the PSO scope as I have not seen one in weeks! But I think you are right, certain weapons should spawn with sights attached, like the SVD.. And the potential of finding an MK12 equivalent with a tricked out M4 would be fantastic, truly love that gun in Arma 2! Although I am yet to hold an M4 since the first month of the Standalone release!

[evil koala 22]

There's a compromise to be had here.. Don't want to increase the rate of weapons spawning but still have accessories spawn on a weapon at their current rate? Have accessories spawn on ruined/irreparable guns. 

[trev186 389]

Most realistic is to have them spawn on weapons and off.

Spawning only one way or the other makes little sense.

Will be interesting to see what they do with their new randomized loot spawn system though

[gibonez 3633]

Most realistic is to have them spawn on weapons and off.

Spawning only one way or the other makes little sense.

Will be interesting to see what they do with their new randomized loot spawn system though

 

Does it though ?

 

Outside of gunstores you will almost never encounter random gun accessories lying around.

 

You will almost always find them mounted on the weapon itself. This is particularly true of optics since they require fitting to the weapon via zeroing it in.

Removal of the weapon scope usually causes the weapon to lose zero and once again regaining it when trying to mount it again.

[modis002 78]

devs said that they will make so weapons will have a chance to spawn with attachments, magazines/ammo, and they will have random conditions. for example you find a Badly damaged SKS with a pristine pu scope and loaded with damaged ammo.

[varobun 19]

My favorite is restaurant workers keeping pistol suppressors and long-range scopes under the counters. :)

[trev186 389]

Does it though ?

 

Outside of gunstores you will almost never encounter random gun accessories lying around.

 

You will almost always find them mounted on the weapon itself. This is particularly true of optics since they require fitting to the weapon via zeroing it in.

Removal of the weapon scope usually causes the weapon to lose zero and once again regaining it when trying to mount it again.

Yes my dad owns an assault rifle with multiple scopes...

He only keeps one on the gun.. The others are in case on a shelf above the guns in his safe.

Going down that same logic he also has a case of several hundred round of 7.62 for our sks...

Rather than tiny ammo boxes we should be able to find crates full of hundreds of rounds since many people but then in bulk

[gibonez 3633]

Yes my dad owns an assault rifle with multiple scopes...

He only keeps one on the gun.. The others are in case on a shelf above the guns in his safe.

Going down that same logic he also has a case of several hundred round of 7.62 for our sks...

Rather than tiny ammo boxes we should be able to find crates full of hundreds of rounds since many people but then in bulk

 

If suggested the former before for the military surplus ammo.

 

 

Option for finding spam cans of mil surplus ammo at military bases and or helicopter crashes. Rare of course.

[Katana67 2907]

Hello again DayZ forum! I can see things are right where I left them!

 

Though I recognize that the developers have stated that they're going to have attachments spawning on weapons, I still disagree with it and their reasoning.

 

It doesn't, in any way, take away from the "uniqueness" of a particular weapon to have it spawn standard without attachments. In fact, I'd submit that it takes away from any personalization or attachment that I'd get from picking up a fully kitted AR with full magazine, vice having to go through the effort/time of kitting it out the way I want.

 

Granted, there's still nothing preventing me from doing that with attachments spawning on weapons. But their reasoning isn't very sound. I don't want weapons being easy, and for a long time, a lot of the so-called "realism" enthusiasts of the forum didn't either. This makes their use easier, by including things like magazines and attachments at weapon spawns. It makes that willy-nilly kill you get, easy. Nothing in DayZ should be easy, especially not getting a death-dealing rifle to 100% functionality.

 

This doesn't bother me very much though, could take it or leave it, it's more just a design choice. The bigger concern with me is finding loaded/unloaded magazines alongside weapons. I get that the majority of firearms owner keep magazines alongside their weapons (I do too), but it just repeats the same tired problem of the mod. Killing/shooting things becomes inconsequential because you get a "one-stop-shop" for guns/ammo when you find one.

 

I won't be valuing the 20 rounds of 7.62x51 I find neatly arranged in a mag next to my DMR when I loot it. And subsequently, I won't be thinking twice about wasting half of that magazine trying to take out a bambi at 500m just to do it. I'll deal with any incoming bandits with the other 10 rounds if I have to, and plus I'll be able to see them from a mile off with the optic that was attached conveniently to my DMR!

 

I will be valuing the five rounds of 7.62x51 I found in a deer stand near Myshkino after searching for two hours, the DMR I found at the military base at NWAF after killing a bandit, and the DMR mag I found at a helicopter crash. I won't be killing that bambi, because I have bigger fish to fry, I'll need those rounds later, and I'm not going to risk exposing my position to any other undesirables unless I absolutely have to. And I probably won't be able to take them on anyhow, because I haven't found any optics yet. Plus I don't want to risk any of that, because I spent so much time/effort looting and compiling the damn thing.

 

Plus, there isn't really a substantive and/or working lineup of attachments for me to care about yet. Once they get attachments behaving more reasonably, and include more of them (preferably a functioning foregrip) then I'll be better able to tell how this will work out. Optics are another thing entirely, and we also don't have a great variety of them either.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Katana67

[trev186 389]

If suggested the former before for the military surplus ammo.

 

 

Option for finding spam cans of mil surplus ammo at military bases and or helicopter crashes. Rare of course.

I was 10 when my dad bought them so I may not feel the same now but my goodness those were heavy.. I think they'd make most people fall over who tried to run with them in a backpack