Love the New Sway

[xalienax 621]

I like that they finally got some decent sway in. this is definately a step in the right direction.

 

A few points to id like to suggest

 

• It needs to be much more gradual state of 'tiring'. is seems rigth now to either be full-on drunken flailing or rock steady marksman mode. with very little to no transition between the two.
• Fatigue rate should be heavily dependant on factors such as carrying weight, health, and weather + terrain conditions. (eg you should get mush more exhausted slogging up a steep hill agressivly than a short sprint around a corner on level terrain)
• Once this is all implenented, the BASE dispersion values should be brought much more in-line with thier real-life counterparts. "go put all these parts on your gun to make it super accurate" is not an acceptable solution.

[Dagwood 680]

<p>

I like that they finally got some decent sway in. this is definately a step in the right direction.

A few points to id like to suggest

• It needs to be much more gradual state of 'tiring'. is seems rigth now to either be full-on drunken flailing or rock steady marksman mode. with very little to no transition between the two.
• Fatigue rate should be heavily dependant on factors such as carrying weight, health, and weather + terrain conditions. (eg you should get mush more exhausted slogging up a steep hill agressivly than a short sprint around a corner on level terrain)
• Once this is all implenented, the BASE dispersion values should be brought much more in-line with thier real-life counterparts. "go put all these parts on your gun to make it super accurate" is not an acceptable solution.

Let's hope the current dispersion values are one of these "placeholders" the devs keep referencing. What you suggest would definitely improve the skill curve and cap.

[jubeidok 495]

Anyone else think they may have tuned it down a bit server side? I've noticed far less sway from a crouched position today than I was experiencing last night and that was after a run up a hill.

[LigerRider 82]

He might have been sprinting for more than 10 seconds ya know? 

 

I want to see you run a mile and then fire off 10 rounds @ 100m IRL, with a GoPro attached to your rifle.

I'm talking about in-game experience. You run for 10 seconds and you have uncontrollable weapon sway. Also, if you have enough stamina to sprint a mile, you also have enough stamina to hold your aim steady for a few seconds to fire off a shot, unless for some reason you've been doing a ton of heavy lifting to the point where your arms have an uncontrollable shake. 

 

I've handled weapons in real life, I'm not making this stuff up, so you can argue if you'd like, but I don't see where you're coming from here. 

[gibonez 3633]

Anyone else think they may have tuned it down a bit server side? I've noticed far less sway from a crouched position today than I was experiencing last night and that was after a run up a hill.

 

Feels the same for me and I have only been killing on sight from on top of a building for 2 days now. Sway is great .

 

 

Shooting feels really nice but the lag and hit detection is still a ways off. The #1 change I have noticed now that I did not feel before is how the ragdoll provides instant tactile feedback to the player that the person he is shooting at has dropped from his shot.

 

After pooping someone and if the lag and everything works fine you get immediate feedback .

 

 

 

I'm talking about in-game experience. You run for 10 seconds and you have uncontrollable weapon sway. Also, if you have enough stamina to sprint a mile, you also have enough stamina to hold your aim steady for a few seconds to fire off a shot, unless for some reason you've been doing a ton of heavy lifting to the point where your arms have an uncontrollable shake. 

 

I've handled weapons in real life, I'm not making this stuff up, so you can argue if you'd like, but I don't see where you're coming from here. 

 

 

Sprinting for 10 seconds is more than enough time to get your heart rate to 150 BPM and above where controlling your aim is hard.

Edited July 14, 2014 by gibonez

[vladomir 8]

pretty much.

 

I am thinking some of these new players think the vehicles will be abundant like wasteland and everyone will suddenly be driving everywhere.

 

Reality is you will probably see one car or vehicle about once a month if you are lucky.

Which I think is sad... Same with helicopters too I'm sure. If they make the parts too hard to find before you die then what's the point in even having them in game? So maybe 2 out of 20,000 can enjoy them for 10 min. Again why bother.

I'm not sure why all these vehicles don't work anymore? Since where I live there's at least two in every driveway I'm sure I could find one that runs. Hey maybe it was a emp that fried everything and also made people go crazy. I dunno

See one car a month!!! So devs please don't waste time on something most of us will never see or be able to use. Make different furniture to make the houses look different at least I'll get to enjoy that.

[gibonez 3633]

Which I think is sad... Same with helicopters too I'm sure. If they make the parts too hard to find before you die then what's the point in even having them in game? So maybe 2 out of 20,000 can enjoy them for 10 min. Again why bother.

I'm not sure why all these vehicles don't work anymore? Since where I live there's at least two in every driveway I'm sure I could find one that runs. Hey maybe it was a emp that fried everything and also made people go crazy. I dunno

See one car a month!!! So devs please don't waste time on something most of us will never see or be able to use. Make different furniture to make the houses look different at least I'll get to enjoy that.

 

You are seeing it from the wrong approach.

 

Think of it this way.

 

By increasing the rarity of items and making them highly sought after when you finally do get a car or your group does this will make the experience all that much greater.

 

Creating true rarity in the items is what will make Dayz shine imagine the pure joy you will feel when you and a group finally get a car running and the sheer terror you will feel if someone tries to take it from you.

[kander 80]

Aha. Ahahaha. Ahahahahaha. No.

 

Do you really want to reduce the sprint speed? Do you want it to take 4 hours to get from Berezino to Elektro? Fuck that shit. Certainly not until vehicles are in. And not even then. 

 

Definitely want to reduce sprint speed. It shouldn't matter how long it takes to get from Berezino to Elektro. The distance between them is the distance between them, and the effort becomes the reward (it's not like there's nothing to see/do in between). The map feels small enough on a crowded server, and fast (or at least prolonged) sprint only reduces it further.

 

Exactly, in actual fact, the same logic as this (below). What's the point in having hte coolest gunzzzz when everyone else has them? The good stuff has to be rare as rocking horse shit, it's the only way to reward the dedicated, the true survivalists. I hope Bohemia don't pander to the FPS gamers used to lethal custom loadouts.

 

You are seeing it from the wrong approach.

 

Think of it this way.

 

By increasing the rarity of items and making them highly sought after when you finally do get a car or your group does this will make the experience all that much greater.

 

Creating true rarity in the items is what will make Dayz shine imagine the pure joy you will feel when you and a group finally get a car running and the sheer terror you will feel if someone tries to take it from you.

Edited July 14, 2014 by kander

[LigerRider 82]

Sprinting for 10 seconds is more than enough time to get your heart rate to 150 BPM and above where controlling your aim is hard.

Again, I'm talking from experience in real life handling weapons. But, to see this from your point of view, then a heart rate/stamina sort of system should be implemented that isn't just calm or about to die from exhaustion. Then the weapon sway can have a ton of varying levels instead of just straight or swinging around like its a fire axe. 

[Kaboki 62]

When I was in the army our firing range instructor did a test on us to prove a teory that we perform better when under pressure. So he had us first shoot a few rounds when we where calm and rested, then he made us run for a while excausting us a bit and then made us run down to the range and blast off a few rounds when we where tired and almost had no breath left. It turned out that everyone shoot better when excausted and performed badly when rested and taking their time to aim....He's theory got confrimed....

[SFRGaming 718]

When I was in the army our firing range instructor did a test on us to prove a teory that we perform better when under pressure. So he had us first shoot a few rounds when we where calm and rested, then he made us run for a while excausting us a bit and then made us run down to the range and blast off a few rounds when we where tired and almost had no breath left. It turned out that everyone shoot better when excausted and performed badly when rested and taking their time to aim....He's theory got confrimed....

Not really a controlled tests with epinephrine flowing through the body during the second test.

[Kaboki 62]

Not really a controlled tests with epinephrine flowing through the body during the second test.

 

Hmmm, what do you mean? I found the test very valid, and it proved to me, if Im running for a while and then try to hit targets I hit better than if Im taking my time and is well rested... I don't understand what you mean with the epinephrine....

[GeorgieBest 7]

The sway is extremely over exaggerated. Walking/running for 10 seconds definitely doesn't make me sway that hard in real life. Hell, even out of breath it's way different. It's current implementation is way over the top.

 

-I've handled weapons with scopes in real life.

 

This. 

You can do a medium pace jog for a few km and still fire absolutely fine. 

The only time it's difficult to control your weapon is if you're trying to make a 100m+ shot after sprinting as fast as you can, and even then it only takes about 10-20 seconds to steady yourself. 

 

IMO there should be a bigger difference between standing/crouched/prone. Crouched there should be next to no sway, and prone there shouldn't be anything noticeable. 

[GeorgieBest 7]

Hmmm, what do you mean? I found the test very valid, and it proved to me, if Im running for a while and then try to hit targets I hit better than if Im taking my time and is well rested... I don't understand what you mean with the epinephrine....

 

I don't fully understand his point, if he is talking about someone with a normal adrenaline rush, then he is wrong, a normal adrenaline rush will not unsettle you so much that you cannot make an accurate shot. If he's talking about someone who's just had a shot of adrenaline however then I agree, you would shaking just trying pull the trigger.

[SFRGaming 718]

I don't fully understand his point, if he is talking about someone with a normal adrenaline rush, then he is wrong, a normal adrenaline rush will not unsettle you so much that you cannot make an accurate shot. If he's talking about someone who's just had a shot of adrenaline however then I agree, you would shaking just trying pull the trigger.

No, firing in a calm environment does not introduce epinephrine like a combat situation would.

[Kaboki 62]

No, firing in a calm environment does not introduce epinephrine like a combat situation would.

I still don't understand your point that my 'stress' test was invalid. But let me make one thing clear, during that test I had no difference in weapon sway during calm shooting, and stress shooting, but under stress It was like I didn't need to aim, but more like point my gun at target, fire and I magicly hit my target without having to concentrate like I useally would at the firing range.

 

My only point is, that I would like that running for a while doesn't impact weapon sway at all, and that changing stances would be the only thing that is affecting the sway.

[GeorgieBest 7]

No, firing in a calm environment does not introduce epinephrine like a combat situation would.

Have you ever been in a real combat situation?..

What's the closest you've been?

[Reg Park 160]

just my opinion but it's too much sway, feel intoxicated trying to hit shots beyond 200m

[SFRGaming 718]

Have you ever been in a real combat situation?..

What's the closest you've been?

Just because I make a logical claim that has been proven by people with experience and ultimately science doesn't mean I have to experience it myself. The closest I have been is an attempt at a home invasion by some punk looking for quick money. And I can tell you, my heart was racing like a car at daytona. So to answer your question, no I haven't. But, you don't need to be to understand a test in a controlled environment will not mimic a real live situation. In the controlled test, you know you're safe. When you're in live combat and people are shooting back, you don't if you'll live to see the sun rise or if you'll get your head shot clean through.

Edited July 14, 2014 by SFRGaming

[gibonez 3633]

Arma 3 got its bootcamp update today.

 

 

Coolest feature is the all new stamina and sway system making shooting harder and nowhere near as easy as it was before.

 

 

In addition to the new content, Bohemia Interactive also took the opportunity to further refine the fatigue and weapon sway mechanics in Arma 3. Weapon Sway and Inertia is intended to simulate the inherent advantages that lighter and more compact firearms possess (particularly in close-quarter situations) as compared to relatively more cumbersome weapons. For Arma 3, this means that players may turn as quickly as they like, but shouldn't expect their sights to line up dead on target if they are carrying heavier weapons. The improvements to the Fatigue system are related. While players will always be able to run, their rate of movement can now be limited based on the weight of their gear, their state of health, and the management of their stamina.

 

 

Awesome hope the stamina system and the sway improvements make their way to Dayz eventually.

[GeorgieBest 7]

Just because I make a logical claim that has been proven by people with experience and ultimately science doesn't mean I have to experience it myself. The closest I have been is an attempt at a home invasion by some punk looking for quick money. And I can tell you, my heart was racing like a car at daytona. So to answer your question, no I haven't. But, you don't need to be to understand a test in a controlled environment will not mimic a real live situation. In the controlled test, you know you're safe. When you're in live combat and people are shooting back, you don't if you'll live to see the sun rise or if you'll get your head shot clean through.

But your first reply insinuated that "a real combat situation" introduces enough adrenaline into your system that you feel like you have had an adrenaline shot? 

 

If you hold your rifle correctly in a crouched/prone position, as you are taught to in the military, no amount of "natural" adrenaline will make you start swinging your gun around like a protein shaker. Just because you soiled yourself when a kid broke into your house for booze money doesn't mean everyone does/will. 

 

If this game is taking place in chernarus, where military service was compulsory up until 2004, then I would expect most characters to be able to hold a gun without sh!tting their pants. 

Edited July 14, 2014 by GeorgieBest

[gibonez 3633]

 

If this game is taking place in chernarus, where military service was compulsory up until 2004, then I would expect most characters to be able to hold a gun without sh!tting their pants. 

 

 

Players have no military training they are just survivors.

 

The sway should not be examined in a sense of realism because well frankly with mouse and keyboard anything is going to be unrealistic.

 

However the new sway is a step in the right direction of making shots a chore much like real life.

 

It takes a very real mechanic sway, and exaggerates it or adjusts it so that it makes it harder for a player to land shots at ranges that would ordinarily be hard in real life but downright comically easy in game.

 

I rather have a game mechanic like sway that makes hitting someone at 100m take skill and patience over what we had before with 12 year old kids "sniping" people with the mosin at 1200m.

 

The new sway is just one step at the right direction with  additional things added it could result in a cohesive and downright satisfying shooting mechanic that is far more aligned in realism than what we have today.

 

• New Sway mechanics
• Stamina and weight system
• Realistic weapon ballistics and real life accuracy
• weapon resting and bipod deployment
• wind
• Forced free aim

Add all those things together and you have a super rich shooting game one that does not simply cater to beginners.

[GeorgieBest 7]

 

Players have no military training they are just survivors.

 

The sway should not be examined in a sense of realism because well frankly with mouse and keyboard anything is going to be unrealistic.

 

However the new sway is a step in the right direction of making shots a chore much like real life.

 

It takes a very real mechanic sway, and exaggerates it or adjusts it so that it makes it harder for a player to land shots at ranges that would ordinarily be hard in real life but downright comically easy in game.

 

I rather have a game mechanic like sway that makes hitting someone at 100m take skill and patience over what we had before with 12 year old kids "sniping" people with the mosin at 1200m.

 

The new sway is just one step at the right direction with  additional things added it could result in a cohesive and downright satisfying shooting mechanic that is far more aligned in realism than what we have today.

 

• New Sway mechanics
• Stamina and weight system
• Realistic weapon ballistics and real life accuracy
• weapon resting and bipod deployment
• wind
• Forced free aim

Add all those things together and you have a super rich shooting game one that does not simply cater to beginners.

 

Apologies, I hadn't read that post. 

 

If we aren't military trained soldiers, then how come we inherently have the knowledge for things such as loading bullets into magazines correctly, or operating a variety of weapons, which I can guarantee a civy wouldn't be able to do? I understand there are limitations in a game, but if it's assumed we know how to fully operate a gun and add/take attachments, then surely it's implied we at least know how to hold the thing correctly? 

 

Regardless of all this nonsense, my original point was that in the limitations of a game, the sway should be great when standing, but should be minimal when prone. That's real, and fair. There are things like spread which take into account the inaccuracy of weapons which prevent 1km kills, which is much more realistic than turning shooting into a game using reactions to wait till your cross hairs are on them. 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GeorgieBest

[gibonez 3633]

Apologies, I hadn't read that post. 

 

If we aren't military trained soldiers, then how come we inherently have the knowledge for things such as loading bullets into magazines correctly, or operating a variety of weapons, which I can guarantee a civy wouldn't be able to do? I understand there are limitations in a game, but if it's assumed we know how to fully operate a gun and add/take attachments, then surely it's implied we at least know how to hold the thing correctly? 

 

A Neanderthal could load bullets into a magazine. Weapons were built to be easy to use and require little to no training. Plus just about anyone exposed to any modern media would know the very fundamentals of operating a firearm.

 

The better question to ask is how the fuck are these survivors magically healing life threatening gunshot wounds to the throat with a dirty ripped up t shirt.

[GeorgieBest 7]

A Neanderthal could load bullets into a magazine. Weapons were built to be easy to use and require little to no training. Plus just about anyone exposed to any modern media would know the very fundamentals of operating a firearm.

 

The better question to ask is how the fuck are these survivors magically healing life threatening gunshot wounds to the throat with a dirty ripped up t shirt.

wat

 

Weapons are meant to be easy to use and service AFTER training. If I gave you a SA80 rifle and told you to disassemble it completely and clean it without you having any prior knowledge, you would probably fuck the gun to bits and make it unusable. Loading bullets into mags might seem intuitive at first, but if don't do it in the correct manner then your gun will jam every couple of rounds...

 

Rags R OP

Edited July 15, 2014 by GeorgieBest