Scorped rifles need to go or become ULTRA rare

[tajin 17]

Don't play on a server with crosshairs enabled so noone can magically measure the distance and simply dial it in on the CZ.

Aside from that, distances in ArmA are easily overestimated, especially when you're used to other games. Besides, in other games, people start use their sniper rifles as soon as something is more than 50 meters away. Thats not really a wise thing to do in ArmA. A sniperrifle only really outclasses assaultrifles at ranges way over 200 meters. I.E. I could rather easily pop your head with an M16 from 200 meters away, using only ironsights.

The scope sure makes it easier to spot people, but it also limits your awareness and is rather slow to use effectively.

When you use the CZ or similar guns on a range where they actually outclass regular rifles, then you also have to try quite a bit harder to hit a target on first shot. Especially a moving one. (if you're smart, you learn to avoid moving in straight lines)

To sum it up, I don't really have much of a problem with sniper rifles in ArmA. They fill their role, and that is fine. It's not really the weapon that kills you, its the situation and how you handle it.

[sorophx 25]

OA does have an interface to adjust sights

it sort of does.

Page Up to raise by 100 meters, Page Down to lower by a 100 meters. you don't need more, since there's no wind in OA. basically, once you are familiar with your scope, you can kill people at 500, 600, 700, 800 meters freely (Beginner servers make it even easier with their auto range finder for every scope)

[naizarak 41]

CZ should be seriously nerfed. The guy that said that the most tension comes from 20m gunfights or interactions was right. Getting shot from 700m isn't tense' date=' just frustrating. However 2 people seeing eachother in the same area with shitty guns deciding if they should fire or not, where to go, what cover to use, etc is WAY more tense. And currently as it is all the PVPers are snipers..myself included

[/quote']

this exactly, nothing kills the tension more than getting shot from 500M by some bandit camping with a cz550 or dmr.

[osme_oxys 9]

All I hear by the people for this mod is that all battles should be within 20meters, and most of whom clearly havnt played the mod before, saying they get shot from 700m+, when the max range you can see at is 200-500m depending on the time of day due to fog. Snipers are already nerfed to a fraction of their power due to that.

So you guys want all battles within 20 meters. Fine. Nerf the makarov while your at it, its effective at up to 100. Its far too powerful for you guys it seems. In fact, from your arguments, every single gun is wildly over powered, due to them being the least bit useful past 20 meters.

Stop complaining about a mod for arma being a mod for arma. You say you dont want to get shot from long distance, well thats your own fault for running in the middle of the field. Go back to something like CoD if you want small close range maps.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

I used to do extreme range sniping with the SVD a while ago in Arma2 (non dayZ) a sniper rifle is still effective at 1000+ meters.

The tunnel vision of the CZ is fairly extreme, i would say it balances it quite well.

Also bullets are not instant in arma, they take a while to travel and they drop. Hitting someone with a CZ at 300 meters in full run is not that easy.

I guess the conclusion is that you shouldn't stand still on open ground.

Also the military assault rifles are zeroed to 300 meters if i recall.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I guess the conclusion is that you shouldn't stand still on open ground.

These are words to live by, my friends.

:D

I have already succumbed to someone shooting me while I stared at amazement the first (and only) rifle drop, fully illuminated by my flare not five feet away, and to another while catching my breath after killing four zeds.

TKJ

[lev 39]

My main annoyance with this thread are people who immediately claim:

"All the tension in this game comes from 5m-20m situations." or something of that nature.

Just because this is true for you does not make it true for the game or for anyone else. Having played Arma TvT scenarios for a few years now, I can tell you player interaction can be tense up to and over 1000m. You are aware that this mod features scoped weapons that allow players to engage more effectively at range yet you choose to ignore that and play as if that was not the case. Why should the game be changed to suit your personal preferences in play style? Try to thinking of the game as: "wow this game offers so much variety, not only do I have to be concerned about players in my immediate surroundings but I also have to be concerned about snipers sitting afar." Maybe adopting this attitude will help instead of trying to change or remove things that don't suit your play style and mindset.

Also you argument invalidates basically all weapons besides pistols. Shotguns and winchesters are effective at ~100m-150m. Assault rifles are effective up to 500m and are typically sighted to 300m. Pistols themselves are effective up to 50m and can engage at longer ranges.

As another poster mentioned, you are probably also grossly over estimating how easy it is to hit a moving target at range. For most engagements at under 300m, an assault rifle will do much better than a scoped rifle due to their higher rate of fire, as their accuracy is quite similar and not much compensation is needed on the player's end. Another reason for the effectiveness of scoped weapons is that a common reaction among players once they start taking fire is to go prone which is the wrong response in most situations. Firstly without knowing exactly where the fire is coming from, you don't know if going prone actually conceals you from the enemy and may in fact just leave you as a slow moving target. Unless you are certain that going prone conceals you, the best course of action is probably to snake it (zigzag) to the nearest piece of hard cover or cluster of foliage. Compound this with the fact that newcomers apparently don't expect to engage outside of CQC, they probably aren't used to taking the time to properly recon an area before moving, which leads them to take very risky maneuvers and then end up prone in exposed positions while under fire.

Learn to appreciate and play the game that is DayZ, an ARMA2 mod. Don't try to turn this into DayZ, a persistent world mod for L4D/other modern FPS.

The one thing I will agree with is that NVGs and rangefinders should have some sort of battery life and once expired will become useless. Batteries for these devices are probably uncommon so once they expire a new item would have to be acquired instead. For other objects like flashlights and GPS, possibly some sort of battery system can be built into DayZ in a manner similar to ACE batteries. Another exciting idea might be to allow players to build up generators or power-up powerplants and recharge batteries there (of course while allowing other functions like powering lights, compounds, etc)

[Walkertxranger 0]

Scoped rifles should stay, its realistic and that's what arma 2 is about. I'm sick of all these dayz kiddies getting arma and trying to make arma into a shitty game, go play no room in hell or some other semi-realistic zombie mod.

The people that play arma for what it is, a realistic military simulator should be the ones shaping this mod. key word there, arma 2 is not a game it is a simulator, it is realism to the extreme, if you want a game go play bf3.

Dumb cod kiddies and zombie fans looking for a fun zombie game to play with friends, arma 2 is not supposed to be a fun run and gun type of game, it can be boring and tactical and you spend more time marching to a mission than you do fighting in it. But it is this realism that makes arma 2 great when you get shot at you know go get to cover, no other game creates the fear and realism arma 2 does it is immersive, thats why dayz is awesome. Its not fun its realistic and extremely immersive. It is not for everyone, and everyone shouldn't be trying to change it into cod.

[bchang2 0]

I don't think anything should be nerfed, or spawn percentages changed. And as for the people who say 20m gunfights are intense? I had a group of three trying to get into stary during the day, we were crawling up the treeline next to the road and while I was looking around I saw bandits not 20 meters away but uphill at least 70-100 meters away. Gunfights at that range with a group is intense knowing that you don't have the uphill advantage and that they could flank you, attract zombies, and all that jazz. People shooting even at 500m with a CZ? Unless you haven't played Arma 2 for very long, even trying to compensate for bullet drop, the wind, time the bullet leaves the barrel to when it reaches its destination, and how time of day and position of the person can skew their vision of where you are.

Your going to find snipers everywhere, you have to face it even if the spawns are lowered it doesn't mean some bandit who likes to camp the coast is going to curb his habit of doing so. It means you just have an extra half hour or so from a fresh server restart before he gets back into his little sniping spot. I've been shot plenty by snipers, and most of the time it's been on the coast or near towns/cities/airfields that are major highways for players. If you want to avoid snipers, skirt around towns/cities instead of following it from the road 50m in the treeline or so, because every other guy and gal out there is probably thinking of doing that too.

And for the people who think such high tier weapons such as M16/M4s, AKs, and scoped rifles should be nerfed or done away with altogether. I hate to say it, but these are the reasons most people go up north aside from avoiding the bean wars on the coast, leave people with winchesters and pistols long enough I'm sure you'll start changing your tune or even say that winchesters are too deadly as well. GPS and NVGs.. I've been playing for a while now, and I can tell you as a matter of fact that these are RARE. Never have I come across players with them or seen them spawn the past several weeks, so if this doesn't support one of the earlier posts stating that the influx of NVGs and GPS were due to exploits then please consider it at least a suspect of how they became more common if only for a short while.

This is only my opinion, and the mod we all love to play is still only in ALPHA after all. I respect everyone's opinions and suggestions for this mod, because without all the 'Whining' and 'Crying' some problems wouldn't be looked at. There is always room for improvement, and because it hasn't been fixed as fast as you want it to be it isn't the green light to start throwing assumptions at Rocket until their raining from the sky. If neither suggestion works, compromise.

[sorophx 25]

being "still in open ground" has little to do with the OP. jeebuz, people...

typically you get sniped in a bunch of standard situations:

a) spawning in the south;

b) looting shit inside a building

c) fighting off zombies

I never get sniped "in the open", because there's nobody there, ffs. all the snipers are camping loot points and spawn points. that's the problem. a guy just sits in a bush 600 meters away from a building. his friend sits in a bush nearby and watches another building. sooner or later people will try to enter it, and as they crouch to pick up a can of beans or a STANAG - BAM, they're dead.

that, IMHO, needs to be addressed. not removed entirely, mind you. just regulated by making hunting rifles spawn less, forcing people to use binoculars to scope out areas, then engage with their weapon, that doesn't have a scope, most likely. placing them and their target at a level playing field

[Ruddager 0]

I think all issues with this would simply be sorted by randomizing the spawn points of players and items a bit more. Who's going to bother camping when you don't know where to camp?

Making players stand out less when zoomed in would also be good, but in reality I don't know how possible that is.

[Mutonizer 78]

[..]This is only my opinion' date=' and the mod we all love to play is still only in ALPHA after all. I respect everyone's opinions and suggestions for this mod, because without all the 'Whining' and 'Crying' some problems wouldn't be looked at. There is always room for improvement, and because it hasn't been fixed as fast as you want it to be it isn't the green light to start throwing assumptions at Rocket until their raining from the sky. If neither suggestion works, compromise.

[/quote']

Cheers for the comment on this.

Things have gotten a lot better overall since 1.5.7 on this issue and maybe there were indeed hacks, that are being dealt with. Since I never beeline from the coast to spawn camp the military complexes, I could only comment from what I've seen players use or found on bandits/survivors.

I've noticed far less people just spending hours camping with long range rifles from bushes and rooftops to kill people coming around and overall a more "careful" approach to things when trying killing people, which is very refreshing. Of course the zombie spawns are bugged out right now but maybe this will solve itself via other factors, and only a very selected few will remain, the ultra hardcore lone wolves man-hunters out there, with which I'm totally fine and think are great to have in game....

Also a lot more people are now more careful about opening fire with the big rifles, even from quite far away, since it will attract TONS of zombies in a beeline to you. That means if they miss or just wound you, they'll have dozens and dozens of pissed of Zs to deal with and they need to either finish you off really fast or get the hell out of dodge, which is fun I think, and I hope it's also fun for them :)

[osme_oxys 9]

sorophx (1) - Last updated Today, 07:20 AM

Rating given for Post #24853

Negative (-1): this mod has little to do with actual arma, stop making it sound like it does

Oh how I grinned.

If it makes you feel better, Ill say youve made a good point and a huge impact on my future making of decisions about this game. What does an arma mod on an open arma map have to with anything at all, when youre complaining about the arma's map being too open.

I ought to give up on this thread, seems some people cant figure out how their own point is valid for their own reason.

[sorophx 25]

Degtyarev, c'mon, man, no need to reassure us in your lack of reading comprehension. I repeat again, you're mixing me up with someone else. I never said I had problems with ArmA's map's "openness". go read all my posts again, quote precisely the part you're having trouble understanding, and I'll be glad to put it in simpler terms just for you.

as for that quote, I will try to put it as simple as possible so you can understand it has nothing to do with "openness" or w/e else is going on in your head at the moment.

ArmA 2 is a military simulator. it a) simulates ground combat, and, what's more important b) infantry combat. now, on a modern day battlefield groups of soldiers engage each other using the best weapons available to their armies at the time. they are given these weapons and taught to use them properly.

every branch of military has its own ideas as to how to equip the troops properly. for example, the US Marine Corp is currently providing all soldiers with ACOG sight, because it's been tried in actual combat and proven very effective. for pretty much the same reasons the Marine Corp is slowly switching from M16 to M27 assault rifles.

now, when we talk about ArmA 2, this is what it's about, you get an array of weapons to choose from, you pick the one you feel suits you the most. you don't just grab the first thing you find, there's a whole arsenal to choose from. so you pick based on your role on the battlefield or your preference (depending on how serious you want to play the game).

the main point I'm trying to make, you don't engage enemy sharpshooters with pistols, you pick your scoped rifle if you know it's going to be a ranged encounter. same goes for fights in urban environments. you take a shorter rifle and a CQC mount.

this is what ArmA 2 is about, presenting players with many options for all their simulation needs.

now, DayZ is a mod utilizing the same engine and mostly the same assets. does it mean it's the same type of game, like you seem to be implying?

no, it fucking doesn't.

DayZ is not a military or tactical simulator, it's a game about survival and human interaction under such conditions. if you are familiar with "roguelikes", this is the closest type of game to DayZ, probably.

stop comparing DayZ to ArmA, apples and oranges, man. in ArmA you pick your weapon at the start, after you were briefed and you know what you're up against. you can take a scoped weapon, or not. but you're not acting alone, ideally, you're part of a well-rounded squad, with machinegunners, a sniper, a CLS etc.

in DayZ you're a lone survivor, looking for food and ammunition. how are you not able to grasp this concept is beyond me

[lev 39]

being "still in open ground" has little to do with the OP. jeebuz' date=' people...

typically you get sniped in a bunch of standard situations:

a) spawning in the south;

b) looting shit inside a building

c) fighting off zombies

I never get sniped "in the open", because there's nobody there, ffs. all the snipers are camping loot points and spawn points. that's the problem. a guy just sits in a bush 600 meters away from a building. his friend sits in a bush nearby and watches another building. sooner or later people will try to enter it, and as they crouch to pick up a can of beans or a STANAG - BAM, they're dead.

that, IMHO, needs to be addressed. not removed entirely, mind you. just regulated by making hunting rifles spawn less, forcing people to use binoculars to scope out areas, then engage with their weapon, that doesn't have a scope, most likely. placing them and their target at a level playing field

[/quote']

A) Getting sniped in the south? Get out of the south ASAP. If you know its extremely dangerous why do you stay there so long? If players are consistently having trouble staying alive in the south, then go visit the other 200km^2 terrain of Chernarus. I will agree that the spawns could be more random and not just on the southern coast all the time, but its quite hard to cover the entire ~15km shoreline of southern Chernarus.

B) Why are you not being cautious when entering a building? A building isn't a safe haven. If someone spots you entering a building, they know you've just locked yourself down into one or two exit points. Concerned that the building you are eyeing might be watched by someone else? Then go to a different building. Almost everything building on Chernarus has a clone somewhere else on the map.

C) If you attract a horde of zombies, you have to deal with the consequences of that. Players trying to kill you when you are most vulnerable is one of those potential consequences.

Also most of these issues have nothing to do with scoped weapons; players can kill you with any weapon while you are studying a pile of loot, busy dealing with other zombies, or venturing into cities on the southern coast.

[b00ce 5]

You're right, DayZ isn't a tactical military simulator, it is a survival simulator and as such, you should find weapons, ammo, food, water and equipment in realistic quantities irregardless of balance.

[sorophx 25]

A) Getting sniped in the south? Get out of the south ASAP.

lol

are you kidding me? do you really think I'm talking about standing still at the spawn point and waiting to get shot? I'm talking about people watching the spawn and shooting as soon as a new survivor pops in

you're right' date=' though. he could be doing that standing at the spawn himself, shooting new arrivals in the back.

oh wait, that would actually put him in danger, it's far more effective to do that from the safety of the nearest forest/tower using a scoped weapon

B) Why are you not being cautious when entering a building?

you're right, how stupid of me. I should definitely sit and watch every tree and bush in a 700-meter radius, scanning for any movement.

oh shit, wait, the CZ550 scope has better magnification than the binoculars, there goes that idea. I guess I'll have to rely on the bandits to be stupid enough to mark their presence somehow when I'm around

C) If you attract a horde of zombies' date=' you have to deal with the consequences of that. Players trying to kill you when you are most vulnerable is one of those potential consequences.[/quote']

I kind of agree here. but I only put the zombies in there for completeness's sake. doesn't change anything really

players can kill you with any weapon while you are studying a pile of loot' date=' busy dealing with other zombies, or venturing into cities on the southern coast.

[/quote']

ha, that's funny, because that's exactly my point. if it's possible to kill with ANY weapon, why are we fucking letting them have scoped weapons, which are clearly supporting mindless killing and making THEIR life of a griefer a lot easier than it should be?

ffs. we've been having huge debates over the griefing issue, here's one of the solutions, and you're all happily blissful in your ignorance. stay classy, community.

my only hope now is Rocket isn't reading any of this shit and secretly making the mod even more hardcore, as it should be. not this griefers' wet dream it is turning into currently.

[HaraDaya 0]

Thanks for pointing out one of my gripes with long distance shooting in ArmA 2; the disappearing foliage. You can prone in tall grass and people will see you more easily at distance than up close.

That is indeed unnerving.

[Banano (DayZ) 0]

ITT:

People who are mad that my CZ skills are too good.

[b00ce 5]

Thanks for pointing out one of my gripes with long distance shooting in ArmA 2; the disappearing foliage. You can prone in tall grass and people will see you more easily at distance than up close.

That is indeed unnerving.

At range things sink into the ground a little to compensate for this.

[shwat 3]

that' date=' IMHO, needs to be addressed. not removed entirely, mind you. just regulated by making hunting rifles spawn less, forcing people to use binoculars to scope out areas, then engage with their weapon, that doesn't have a scope, most likely. placing them and their target at a level playing field

[/quote']

There's your problem. You want a "level playing field" when somebody else gets the drop on you. When they have something you don't, and when they catch you with your pants down, you want it to be less potent. If they have the element of surprise you want to take the edge off by forcing them to alter their playstyle to accommodate yours. That's not fair either. It's not fair to the player that has the skill to sit 700m off and place a tiny, high-velocity projectile into a target that's not even a square foot in size.

You just want an arbitrary barrier to cover your ass the next time you sit still salivating at a gear page with your back to a door.

Also, pro tip to the DMR haters: it doesn't have an elevation adjustment like the CZ 550 or M24. You have to hold-off varying degrees for different ranges. I took the time to set up a firing range in the mission editor so I could practice with it on targets up to 800 meters distant. I play on Veteran servers, so if I want to know how far away somebody is I estimate or use a (very rare) rangefinder. You want to take my practice and precision away from me because you didn't bother to look over your shoulder? Please.

[Mutonizer 78]

You just want an arbitrary barrier to cover your ass the next time you sit still salivating at a gear page with your back to a door.[..]

I'm not a good FPS player, but I do spend insane amount of time checking my surroundings, carefully approaching doors/buildings, closing doors and doing a quick check-through of the loot piles before doing anything. As I said before, I rarely get sniped personally.

Again, the suggestion was not a "whine" because I got killed by it, but I found that these were not lore relevant, too easy to find and that this lowered the tension in game, since there's no tension whatsoever when being shot from a mile away (yes I exaggerate).

But as said before, this issue was mostly solved by the awesome bugged spawn of 1.5.7 and now all these big guns are, from what I could see so far, only used in VERY specific situations because it's a sure way to attract all the zombies in a 500m radius, so if you do use it, you better not miss or just wound the guy, which I'm find with.

[sorophx 25]

you want to take the edge off by forcing them to alter their playstyle to accommodate yours

no. you're not reading, or I'm not conveying my thoughts clearly enough, I don't know.

again, I don't want to remove scoped weapons entirely, hell, if I get my hands on a weapon with ACOG, I'll be damned if I ever drop it.

I want the hunting rifle (and DMR) to stop spawning in Cherno, Electro, Stary Sobor (Balota Airfield) etc.

the reasons are stated above, tl;dr: these weapons currently benefit PKers greatly. you don't need them to kill zombies, shooting zombies with it is a waste of ammo. but it makes killing freshly spawned players extremely easy. this should be changed.

by spawning it in northern cities you'd be forcing PKers to haul ass for an hour or so and then to look for their scoped weapons. since the ammo is scarce, after all that effort, how many would go back south to mindlessly kill people on the shore?

as for your other argument, about "barrier to cover my ass", unless you can magically see and shoot through walls, I don't see how being with "my back to the door" is relevant to this discussion.

there's another post above, which explains it. I'm not going to quote myself.

[rossmum 7]

Seriously? I would say that not knowing if there is a sniper is a lot more tense, because you know that if they see you, you have no chance of taking them out first. You can when someone is right in front of you. Here's a better idea: don't run around on roads drawing attention to yourself. Use shadows and low walls to your advantage. Avoid popular places like the major cities or airfields. Start using your brain and playing intelligently instead of expecting everything that can punish you for carelessness to be removed from the game.

Most sniper rifles you come across are the hunting rifles. A very rural landscape' date=' with lots of farms...and you want to ban hunting rifles? Pointless, there should be more in the countryside in barns and etc if anything

[/quote']

Exactly. Hunting rifles should be by far the most common weapons in the game, and certainly far more common than pistols are.

Perhaps instead of demanding the mod be changed to fit your presumably careless playstyle, OP, you should change your playstyle to fit the mod. Let me guess; you were running around in the street or an open field, and got shot? I wonder why.

Also, I would love to hear what makes you an authority on the 'lore' of survival situations. Apparently you deemed yourself one, since you honestly believe basic, common as dirt civilian hunting rifles somehow do not 'fit' with the situation.

[dope25 1]

I don't understand what's stopping OP from grabbing a common CZ and counter-sniping that sniper, or perhaps hanging with a group that has at least one.