Scorped rifles need to go or become ULTRA rare

[Mutonizer 78]

Just a couple of remarks concerning long range scoped weapons.

1) Survival/Apocalypse "mood" is meant to be gritty, poor/lacking equipment and in your face. This can be found in any literature on the subject. There is tension between two people with shotguns or guns 20m apart, roaming between buildings and the like, because both can potentially be hurt very easily.

There is no tension when you snipe/get sniped 360°, anytime, anywhere a mile away.

2) ARMA2 makes sniping someone running at 700m something even my cat could do by accident. The engine also removes grass on the ground on scoped zoom, meaning apart from walls/rocks/trees, you are actually easier to see and hit from a distance than at close range. Scoped rifles exacerbate this engine issue.

3) Everyone and their dog can get a scoped rifle within 1 hour of spawn or so. Some actually just camp switch servers to grab these goodies, then go hunting people. These rifles need to become ULTRA rare (meaning so rare nobody would be stupid enough to actually try and actively find one) and have their spawn randomized in locations between various places.

4) Scoped rifles are THE weapon of choice for anyone wanting to hunt one thing: players. For any other purpose (apart from pure binocular use), people would rather have guns or shotguns/unscoped. While weapons like this are crucial in a pure military simulation/TDM game, in a zombie survival mod it isn't logical to have so many, used for a single purpose, with the context you're trying to set up for your players.

As a note, this also applies to NVGs. I have problems understanding designing an entire mod around the tension of insanely dark nights, flares and chemlights, then have a way for people to just spawn camp NVGs before going off hunting players. These things need to become ULTRA rare and randomized in spawns, work for a very limited amount of times, etc.

to sum up:

- Make scoped rifles and NVGs very rare (0.000x%), limited in numbers overall, and able to spawn all over the place.

- Make NVGs work on short life batteries, rechargeable or not. Have them be limited to when you REALLY need it, not as a perma daylight.

Just my 2cts, after seeing dayz become more and more of a BF3 mod than a zombie apocalypse mod last week. New patch solves the issue somewhat, but it can be pushed further.

[cat (DayZ) 22]

SImply learn to avoid snipers, it is very easy. You are basically proposing to nerf NVGs and sniper rifles out of existence.

[dunnobe 3]

The NVG's are rarely enough. I do agree on lowering the spawn chances of the CZ550.

[vert 0]

With the new zombie spawns, a very loud rifle will attract many many zombies to said sniper now. Much more risky to use a loud scoped rifle rifle.

Would be good to add even more zombies on the outskirts of towns though, this way a sniper would have more trouble sitting in the woods and picking people off.

[Mutonizer 78]

SImply learn to avoid snipers' date=' it is very easy. You are basically proposing to nerf NVGs and sniper rifles out of existence.

[/quote']

The very concept of snipers is that you cannot avoid them, unless they are very, very bad, or you're a sniper yourself. If it was very easy to avoid snipers, do you really think nearly every single dude here only to kill other players would be one? :)

And all I'm saying is that it's contradictory to what Dayz is trying to do since as I explained, it doesn't fit in the post apocalyptic/zombie survival lore, especially when they are this common.

I'm fine with it being ultra rare for the once in a lifetime "wow a sniping rifle!!" factor. But in the current state of things, if you want a scoped rifle to sniper players, it's very easy. Same for NVGs.

---

With the new zombie spawns' date=' a very loud rifle will attract many many zombies to said sniper now. Much more risky to use a loud scoped rifle rifle.

Would be good to add even more zombies on the outskirts of towns though, this way a sniper would have more trouble sitting in the woods and picking people off.

[/quote']

Could also be a solution yes. As said, new patch did a LOT to solve this BF3 mod feeling issue.

[Ghost Jager 6]

You do understand how absolutely common, around the entire world, a basic scoped rifle like the CZ 550 is?

If realism is intended, it can easily be seen that having a plethora of CZ 550's is a fairly accurate portrayal of real life. I myself (living in America) own a total of 10 various bolt action rifles with scopes for hunting and target shooting.

It is perfectly plausible that in a post-apocalyptic scenario one of the easiest to get weapons would be a bolt-action rifle and on that rifle it is equally plausible to have a scope seeing as one can be purchased at a hardware store and practically any other store that stocks hunting or sports equipment in many countries around the world.

Just my two-bits.

[osme_oxys 9]

Perhaps, instead of running through that open field, you could go against the trees, and watch for flashes coming from guns or look for opposing players. There is a reason you can use alt key to turn your head. Arma promotes realism but you refuse to scout an area and run through open fields without significant reason. You feel anything that is accurate should be removed for that sole reason?

[BannedOpinion 14]

Most sniper rifles you come across are the hunting rifles. A very rural landscape, with lots of farms...and you want to ban hunting rifles? Pointless, there should be more in the countryside in barns and etc if anything

[sorophx 25]

+1 to this

also, I don't know if you implied it or if it's just hit me after reading your post, but I think there has to be a limited amount of NVGs etc. in the game. for example, if 100 NVGs were spawned already, the game would stop spawning them until at least one was lost, across all servers

[Lalene 12]

It isn't a nuclear wasteland. There are still plenty of stuff lying around and not in use.

[shwat 3]

If you're running through a field, you're the only ~1.7m tall, dark, moving object against a light or medium-colored background. Of course you're going to be spotted, and it doesn't take an 8x scope to do it. I'd be much more afraid of players that see me and set up ambushes outside of the buildings I investigate. You know why? Because that's what I do. I spot people that have no clue how to behave in a combat environment and just glad-ass their way across a field dreaming about zombies when the real threat are other players that want your beans, and I let them try to play zombie apocalypse savant and pop everything with their Winchester and I move to a position where I can see inside a building with only one exit.

I watch that building, and I watch the gear spawns inside of it. That nitwit will feel so safe after capping all of the zombies that he'll waltz in there and sit down staring at the gear while I line up a shot on his head with my M16. Good fight, mate, I'm out one bullet and I get your beans. I was probably just sitting next to a bush, and you probably would have seen me if you had taken 5 seconds to scan tree lines. I probably wouldn't have seen you if you had run through a tree line yourself.

Play smart, you won't die.

Your pal,

50+ hours on a single life and counting,

Mac.

[Mutonizer 78]

I agree, especially in the US, that these guns are trivially found and I'm surprised you didn't all kill each other already but that's not the point.

That said, funnily enough, you very rarely see folks in such settings (books, movies, etc) be concerned about them or even using them, and most of these are happening in the US!!

Why? Because it makes a story dull and boring! When it happens, it's very specific, for a reason, and with tension built up minutes ahead.

Tension in these settings comes from 5-20m range social encounters & shootouts, overwhelming odds, etc. Never does it come from sniper 1km away and unless the entire point of this mod is to just reproduce every single FPS that is already available, and sugar coat it with couple zombies, what's the point? Other games do it way better.

And that's my entire point really: it doesn't fit with the context.

Also don't mistake this suggestion for a whine or a complaint because I die from it, because I don't or very rarely. I do spend a LOT of time just checking for possible snipers and it's boring as heck.

Going from cover to cover in an urban environment is fun because it's very dynamic for all parties involved, but using binoculars to check kilometers of treeline, rooftops and towers, knowing full well that either there's nobody there, or the guy could arrive 10 seconds after I checked a spot, or thousands more things that overall would have the same result, is not fun I believe for a lot of people.

But then again, it's just a suggestion. Hopefully it'll register in a brain cell somewhere and some middle ground will be found (bit like these zombies we have now that beeline for the biggest guns).

As for your "play smart, you won't die", well, I bet I can beat you:

- live in the middle of some forest near a boar spawn point and some river dam/sea

- never move otherwise and just wait there, 24h a day, forever,

= Infinite hours of not dying...weeee :)

The entire point of survival games is do die. You CANNOT win a survival game, ever. There isn't even a win condition implemented!! HOW you die is the entire fun of these games, and being sniped out of nowhere doesn't usually make the top tier list :)

[Ghost Jager 6]

Without even reading the majority of your post (and ignoring your attempt and forcing your useless anti-gun nonsense which is uncalled for to say the least.)

In real life (Not fiction books) if this were to happen, the likelyhood of people ignoring "sniper rifles" is absurd and devoid of any sense of reality.

Like you said, dying is the point. You can not win. Getting sniped is dying and realistic. If you dislike realism, this may not be the mod for you. Go elsewhere and may you find a fantastic mod that is everything to your liking.

Otherwise, stay here and enjoy the game. Learn from your mistakes and take advantage of the pitfalls of the scoped rifle. Don't go running willy-nilly through open fields, crouch a lot, and stay in the shadows.

P.S.

We haven't shot all of eachother because responsible and law-abiding citizens don't go shooting people because guns are present. Same as we don't eat food because forks are present. :)

That is all I'll say on that topic so as not to drift the thread.

[b00ce 5]

Cry some more, scoped hunting rifles, like the CZ-550, are VERY common in the civilian world.

Quit bitching, grow a pair and adapt and overcome.

Also, in ArmA things sink into the ground at a distance to simulate the grass. And if you didn't run in open fields and you won't have a problem anyway.

[robollama 1]

I support this. Scoped rifles don't add anything positive to the game when they're so common.

[Mutonizer 78]

In real life (Not fiction books) if this were to happen' date=' the likelyhood of people ignoring "sniper rifles" is absurd and devoid of any sense of reality.

[/quote']

Why do you guys keep bringing real life here, there are ZOMBIES!. It's a game that "tends" toward realism but it's still a game so it has a specific purpose, a design, unlike life. Rocket controls the setting, like any author does. So please stop bringing real life like it's a logical answer or something. At least provide some relevant arguments :)

Also please stick to the relevance regarding game-play mechanism and this mod concept. So far, none of you has given any logical reason to have this many rifles in the mod context while I have the entire lore (movies, books, etc) on this topic on my side: Human encounters (and therefore all the social tension that is involved) are nearly ALWAYS in a 5-20m range, period.

Again, I'm just suggesting that something needs to be done on this topic because I noted, while playing, a disparity between what was happening in game, and what defines survival zombie apocalypse.

[b00ce 5]

Speaking of Rocket, you do realize that he put them in for a reason?

[shwat 3]

Why do you guys keep bringing real life here' date=' there are ZOMBIES!

[/quote']

Why do you keep bringing up other works of fiction that aren't related except categorically to Day Z? Yes, there are other zombie fictions. They all differ from each other in some important ways. Lots of zombie fiction has zombies that shuffle and shamble around, never getting above a walking pace. Other fiction has zombies that will break out in full-on flat-out running-from-lions Kenyan sprint mode to try and eat your face. Day Z has both.

Some fictions have zombies that are supernatural in origin. They were totally 100% legit corpses, and they crawled their way out of the grave for some unknown reason. Other fictions have zombies caused by an infection of some sort, which can "turn" people or will cause them to 'revive' shortly after their apparent death. Day Z chose the infection route, but we don't know how it works. We just know that players seem to be completely immune to it.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Day Z isn't built on pre-existing fiction aside from the fact that it's using a common "zombie apocalypse" genre. The Day Z devs have the freedom to make their mod fit the rules they want it to. This isn't a comic, where you need drama or character development in every panel. It's not a TV series, where there needs to be some sort of storyline or character conflict to maintain interest. It's not a movie with a plot, progression, climax, and ending. It's a game that you play with a transient population and your only goal is to survive until you log out next. That's how you "win" the game. You stay alive each day. When you die, you just start again. Try to "win" longer.

[Edit]

On a final note, your "hide in bush, eat pigs all day" scheme is power-gaming it to the extreme. Want to get on the leaderboards? Fine, whatever. I'll keep sticking my neck out for better and better gear, I'll find things you'll make nerf topics about, and I'll survive until somebody (or more likely, a whole group of somebodies) gets lucky.

[Mutonizer 78]

Please, let's not argue: DayZ is, as it's core, a "zombie apocalypse survival". Heck, it's written on the website, it's in the name, it's everywhere.

With all respect to Rocket, I don't think his goal was to re-invent a genre, but rather adapt it, with his own little tweaks, as many did before him, and more will do after him and that's why we all rushed down here, because it's familiar.

It's also built, obviously, on every single pre-existing fiction related to that genre, in a way or another. Then it's adapted according to the author desires.

Also, pure, 100% survival cannot be the sole goal in such game because if that were so, we'd all be holed up in forests, never moving. The "fun" is to create risks, and try to survive them, or die. And again, that why these scopes are, to me, not fitting.

And maybe Rocket indeed just wants to make a BF3 mod for ARMA2, with some zombies, as I mentioned, where it's just a massive TDM like it was for some time before today's patch.

That's why I'm just suggesting here, and not posting on the general forum with something like: "WAAAAAAAAA NERF SNIP3R RILFESSS!!" then ragequit or something. It's not a complaint, it's a suggestion to try and improve the game, according to what I understands it wants to be.

Speaking of Rocket, you do realize that he put them in for a reason?

You do realize this is Alpha. Do you know how much a game can change during Alpha? Why do you think I put this in the suggestion box!?

[Filozovs 2]

Hurr Durr, I like popping noobs from 500m for fun.

If you claim this game is about survival, you really would be camping in the woods by a lake, eating wild boar's and only come out for ammo. All that crap about shooting people is nonsense, you wouldn't be risking it for a can of beans, since you already have a hunting rifle and forests full of game.

It's a bunch of pricks having fun. I dont mind them, just stop claiming it's something that a real surviver would do. People with makarovs kill for better weapons, not people with CZ's or, even better, DMR's.

[RaaR (DayZ) 0]

Also please stick to the relevance regarding game-play mechanism and this mod concept. So far' date=' none of you has given any logical reason to have this many rifles in the mod context while I have the entire lore (movies, books, etc) on this topic on my side: Human encounters (and therefore all the social tension that is involved) are nearly ALWAYS in a 5-20m range, period.

[/quote']

every single zombie movie there are sniper rifles and bolt actions, there should be sniper rifles. There your logical relevant point

NVG's are very rare. Spawning items is probably the reason why you've seen alot of them. They cracked down on it and the servers fixed the exploit.

NGV's spawn at heli crashes and the barracks at a .48% chance and a .11% chance. Not including the chance of an item even spawning there to begin with.

So if you didnt know there is 12 spots at a 40% chance of a .11% item spawn, i'd say that's rare enough.

Hunting rifles aren't all that common as you make them out to be. and they should be fairly common around farm area's which they have a higher % at.

http://picacid.com/arma2/loot_en.html

[Ghost Jager 6]

To the OP, I really think you are missing the point of this game. It is designed to be a REALISTIC representational game of "if this happened in real life" and is not designed to be fair. It is for this reason that people, including myself, are bringing up realism and real life a reference to your suggestion.

The game is not designed to be fantasy. It is designed to be representative of the reality of a what-if zombie apocalypse scenario.

[osme_oxys 9]

Why do you guys keep bringing real life here' date=' there are ZOMBIES!.

[/quote']

Following what youre saying, I demand a beam rifle and a pistol that uses explosive bones as projectiles, since this is not the real world and whatnot. Its based on the real world, but with a twist. This isnt another planet, another galaxy, nor a separate universe. This is based on Earth, in the 21st century, but as I said, with a twist. Hunting rifles have sights, fire bullets, and are fairly common to the average civilian. Saying otherwise is pointless and untrue.

[sorophx 25]

In real life (Not fiction books) if this were to happen' date=' the likelyhood of people ignoring "sniper rifles" is absurd and devoid of any sense of reality.

[/quote']

that's not the point. the point is Chernarus is supposed to be a post-Soviet state with a bunch of towns and some villages. there simply shouldn't be so many scoped hunting rifles. hell, there shouldn't be any rifles at all.

yeah, in small villages surrounded by miles and miles of forests it would make sense for every household to own a gun, if it was 1900s. but finding them in abundance in general stores, barns and train stations in 2013 - does this make sense in your reality?

[osme_oxys 9]

In real life (Not fiction books) if this were to happen' date=' the likelyhood of people ignoring "sniper rifles" is absurd and devoid of any sense of reality.

[/quote']

that's not the point. the point is Chernarus is supposed to be a post-Soviet state with a bunch of towns and some villages. there simply shouldn't be so many scoped hunting rifles. hell, there shouldn't be any rifles at all.

yeah, in small villages surrounded by miles and miles of forests it would make sense for every household to own a gun, if it was 1900s. but finding them in abundance in general stores, barns and train stations in 2013 - does this make sense in your reality?

General stores having the protection of a gun - Sounds good

Farmer having a gun for hunting - Sounds good

Civilian having a hunting rifle, for sport or otherwise - Sounds good

Train station - Not so much but Ive never seen a sniper there

Whats the point that youre trying to make?