The spirit of day z is dieing

[smoq2 221]

Don't expect people to behave the same way in a real and virtual environment, regardless of circumstances (crisis or not). People just cannot get immersed enough to a specific level in a game, therefore the emotions they are experiencing are different.

When you're playing a horror game you don't experience actual fear. Sure, you feel thrilled but that's not really fear.

 

Fear is the primal emotion that motivates us to work together, mainly because our social instincts alleviate the level of fear even if another human is just present - we don't like to be afraid -> other people make us less afraid -> we keep them around.

 

In order to invoke appropriate behavior in DayZ you would have to convince everyone playing that whatever they are experiencing is "real". They would actually have to be scared, which in turn wouldn't be fun. :)

 

Due to the above, multiplayer game designers usually add artificial methods to incentivise cooperation - very strong enemies, item benefits, buffs, etc. Although the aforementioned mechanisms wouldn't actually fit in DayZ, the game lacks incentives, other then sheer numbers of a given group (which is outweigh by risk) , to play with strangers. There is no reason to keep someone you mildly trust around - he'll eat your food, need half of your bullets and give away your position.

 

I've even heard Dean himself saying that DayZ will never be perfect because it will never simulate the environment to full extent - you will never feel sweating after running for 5 kilometers, nor will never feel the horrible pain of a bullet wound, therefore you won't fear it.

Edited July 4, 2014 by retro19

[airborneguy 93]

I too am losing confidence in this game...Like, what is there to do but kill bandits all day. Making me YAWNNNNNNN

[Element47 2480]

I too am losing confidence in this game...Like, what is there to do but kill bandits all day. Making me YAWNNNNNNN

 

if you are waiting for quests, you're playing the wrong game. seriously though, if im not playing dayz, im watching dayz live streams on twitch, and it confirms my impression: pvp is a core aspect, but there is sufficient co-op experience in the game, with random strangers, and its highly rewarding.

 

I had plenty of friendly encounters, maybe even more than in the mod. When Doc Wasteland started the medic thing in 2012, it was so gamechanging to DayZ that it blew peoples mind, because no one dreamed of expecting friendly behaviour. we have come a long way since then.

 

last random encounter: i had a box-fight with two zombies in the police station of the new large city in the north. a random stranger ran in, and knocked me unconcious. i was sure this was the end, but then i heard him apologize in length, as he though i was punching another player. after he realized that i was defending myself from the infected, and his knockout was not a just thing to do, he waited until i regained conciousness guarding my body, and gave me food, drink, a can opener and a first aid kit before sending me on my way. i never knew his name, and never saw him again, but him sitting and guarding my body in the door of the police station, this has made the whole play session worth it.

 

of course i also was oneshot on my way acrosse the fields between elektro and cherno the other day. but if it wasnt for this danger, for the thrill, this game would be so boring. not everyone is a killer - but those who are, make my game experience thrilling, and they make the friendly encounters so much more rewarding. i am grateful for both.

[randomspawn 215]

I too am losing confidence in this game...Like, what is there to do but kill bandits all day. Making me YAWNNNNNNN

And there is a big conundrum the developers face. If you seriously reduce the PVP element, the game will become boring for everyone, not just you. It is the thrill of the hunt(and being hunted) that keep people at the keyboards. Sure, some people will sit in the woods, shoot and skin deer, dig rocks and make campfires, but there are much better hunting games out there. These people are the outliers. The game is being developed to draw even bigger sales numbers. I think we can safely assume that BI didn't acquire this game to keep it niche. It has 2 million sales. It is being developed to get to 5 million, or 10 million. 

 

This will require game that is capable of delivering enough of multiple aspects to bring people to the cash register. The biggest driver will always be PVP. And most of the things people ask for here will just help PVP more, such as persistent storage and vehicles. 

[smoq2 221]

And there is a big conundrum the developers face. If you seriously reduce the PVP element, the game will become boring for everyone, not just you. It is the thrill of the hunt(and being hunted) that keep people at the keyboards. Sure, some people will sit in the woods, shoot and skin deer, dig rocks and make campfires, but there are much better hunting games out there. These people are the outliers. The game is being developed to draw even bigger sales numbers. I think we can safely assume that BI didn't acquire this game to keep it niche. It has 2 million sales. It is being developed to get to 5 million, or 10 million. 

 

This will require game that is capable of delivering enough of multiple aspects to bring people to the cash register. The biggest driver will always be PVP. And most of the things people ask for here will just help PVP more, such as persistent storage and vehicles. 

 

Not really... Dean has always been very open that they never expected such a high sales count and he still claims that DayZ is being developed for a very niche group of players. All in all, this can be just PR talk but I'm actually willing to believe him.

 

It will all turn out as we get closer to the release date, whether the game follows Dean's original vision of people struggling to survive fighting each other with "sticks and stones", or whether they all caved in to the market demand for another deathmatch shooter with zombies and an open world.

Edited July 4, 2014 by retro19

[frosti 2165]

Don't expect people to behave the same way in a real and virtual environment, regardless of circumstances (crisis or not). People just cannot get immersed enough to a specific level in a game, therefore the emotions they are experiencing are different.

When you're playing a horror game you don't experience actual fear. Sure, you feel thrilled but that's not really fear.

 

Fear is the primal emotion that motivates us to work together, mainly because our social instincts alleviate the level of fear even if another human is just present - we don't like to be afraid -> other people make us less afraid -> we keep them around.

 

In order to invoke appropriate behavior in DayZ you would have to convince everyone playing that whatever they are experiencing is "real". They would actually have to be scared, which in turn wouldn't be fun. :)

 

Due to the above, multiplayer game designers usually add artificial methods to incentivise cooperation - very strong enemies, item benefits, buffs, etc. Although the aforementioned mechanisms wouldn't actually fit in DayZ, the game lacks incentives, other then sheer numbers of a given group (which is outweigh by risk) , to play with strangers. There is no reason to keep someone you mildly trust around - he'll eat your food, need half of your bullets and give away your position.

 

I've even heard Dean himself saying that DayZ will never be perfect because it will never simulate the environment to full extent - you will never feel sweating after running for 5 kilometers, nor will never feel the horrible pain of a bullet wound, therefore you won't fear it.

 

That's why to reflect those things from real life that you can't in game, DayZ mod was using humanity system and bandit/hero/survivor skins.

[smoq2 221]

That's why to reflect those things from real life that you can't in game, DayZ mod was using humanity system and bandit/hero/survivor skins.

 

I have mixed feelings about this... Especially I don't see what should indicate a player's level of humanity. Skins are a no-go due to clothes.

 

Why not look at real life for answers? We usually trust/don't trust others by the way they look/talk/move/smell. Since we don't smell in the game and move/look the same, why not try to add variation to animations? Like someone who shot a lot of people should have some "twitchy" idle animation?

[frosti 2165]

I have mixed feelings about this... Especially I don't see what should indicate a player's level of humanity. Skins are a no-go due to clothes.

 

Why not look at real life for answers? We usually trust/don't trust others by the way they look/talk/move/smell. Since we don't smell in the game and move/look the same, why not try to add variation to animations? Like someone who shot a lot of people should have some "twitchy" idle animation?

 

Different animations instead of skins were already suggested and discussed here:

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/165426-we-need-some-way-to-identify-heros-and-bandits/page-51

[Karmaterror 982]

No that is a mod of a mod. There was no humanity system in Dean Halls DayZ. Plus when the humanity system was introduced, there was plenty to do in the game. In this stage of the alpha KoS is really the only thing to do. 

 

There was a humanity system in Vanilla Dayz mod dude. I liked it because it gave an insentive to play one way or another. Even though it was just a skin, some people would play friendly life after life trying to get it. Now there is no insentive either way, apart from a friendly player who avoids encounters is probably gonna live longer.  

 

I agree that when more features come in therewill be a bit of a reduction in KoS. Simply because that wont be everyones sole mission. The will be out to find a tent, or stock one, or look for car parts ect ect. Then combat becomes more random encounters while doing something else. Also people may be less likey to wanna have a fight when they carrying a car wheel they really need and spent a day searching for :)

 

I agree, we should lend from real life. Blood from murders/searching bodies on hands/face (depending on weapon used. Make it washable so its not permanent. That way we get a more in depth kill system, that involves cleaning up afterwards or give away your true nature to the next player you meet. Also if blood stains built up on cloaths, could be the new look "bandit skin"

 

That still keeps an element of suspence, you could be talking to a pro, who washes and changes cloths after each CqC/melee kill, or just kills from distance and doesn't loot. Or it does that smile and clean pressed white shirt buy your confidence. Its maybe at least an insentive to play nice ill you have the materials to cover your kills. Will alays be that tipping point where you built a camp....got all great gear....and just want some good old PvP. :)

[Lady Kyrah 1109]

There was a humanity system in Vanilla Dayz mod dude. I liked it because it gave an insentive to play one way or another. Even though it was just a skin, some people would play friendly life after life trying to get it. Now there is no insentive either way, apart from a friendly player who avoids encounters is probably gonna live longer.  

 

I agree that when more features come in therewill be a bit of a reduction in KoS. Simply because that wont be everyones sole mission. The will be out to find a tent, or stock one, or look for car parts ect ect. Then combat becomes more random encounters while doing something else. Also people may be less likey to wanna have a fight when they carrying a car wheel they really need and spent a day searching for :)

 

I agree, we should lend from real life. Blood from murders/searching bodies on hands/face (depending on weapon used. Make it washable so its not permanent. That way we get a more in depth kill system, that involves cleaning up afterwards or give away your true nature to the next player you meet. Also if blood stains built up on cloaths, could be the new look "bandit skin"

 

That still keeps an element of suspence, you could be talking to a pro, who washes and changes cloths after each CqC/melee kill, or just kills from distance and doesn't loot. Or it does that smile and clean pressed white shirt buy your confidence. Its maybe at least an insentive to play nice ill you have the materials to cover your kills. Will alays be that tipping point where you built a camp....got all great gear....and just want some good old PvP.  :)

And it was a stupid black and white thing, you could not go half way or you where basically cannon fodder. As a bandit you where shot on sight, which forced you to shoot on sight yourself. As a hero you where a giant bandit target and had to do the same, and you also had the perk to be able to kill anyone who looked at you funny without immediately sliding into the bandit skin.

 

This is not CSI. In a bunch of ragtag survivors, someone could get shot behind the barn you sleep in and you might never figure out who in your group is the murderer.

 

Also newsflash, humans are not like a plastic bottle of blood that gushes out it's content whenever punctured, it's more like a wet sponge. And while blood sprays can be found in all kinds of ways by scientific police, in a zombie apocalypse you really expect anyone's clothes and hands to be fully blood free?

 

Police forensics is not JUST about the smoking gun.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[Putts_UK 28]

Loads of good points on here. People misunderstand i love bandits, they make the game, but there seems to be so many more now because there is no other threat. If the zombies were the number one threat, and it becomes really really hard to survive by yourself, there would be more teaming/helping eachother.

For me that mix was there about a year ago in the mod, and is what sold me on the game, yes you can't trust anyone, but i actually seemed to have more friendly encounters than not, and when i did come across bandits was more like "oh know i got bandited" its a big deal rather than it just being the norm, and thinking oh well thats what happens because theres nothing else to do...

[Nienko 41]

Everyone is pretty much a bandit now. And i think the reason is because there is nothing else to do. Its so easy to survive there is food/water in nearly every building.

Plus there is still no threat from the zombies. Everyone thinks they are such a bad ass bandit, but sometimes it takes these guys two, three reloads to kill you! even when you are a fresh spawn and can't fire back. I Really believe if there were way less food and drink and we finally had decent zombies in numbers, more people would "play" the game in different roles. Right now just seems like big open deathmatch. dont get me wrong i love a bit of pvp, but I miss the teaming up to survive.

I know they are working hard on it, but for me the zombies should have been way further down the line even before release of this alpha. Put the zombies as number one priority then tents/vehicles, everything else can wait.

Just hope its not too late by the time they finally get it sorted.

No, no one would play, but a few. The rest would go back to playing cod..

[Nienko 41]

I don´t know on what kind of servers people are playing but I had a lot of friendly encounters on my "Hero Char" account. Don´t go into the pvp zones, try to use VoIP a lot and "ambush" the people. When you have the better spot and be friendly you will meet a lot of friendly people. Or at least that was my experience so far. I don´t play on softcore servers at all so maybe there is a different attitude on these softcore servers. But I usually don´t run into the "KoS problem" except I am playing with my pvp char account and go for it.

As a sidenote, I haven´t seen Berenzino for weeks now. So maybe stay out of that? Just an idea.

Dont tell me those "friendlies" had guns. If you see some one with the gun, even a shufel, 99.9% its not friendly.

If there would be a Tetris multiplayer game, everyone would still kos. Thats how kids are these days.

Can't change it.. Deal with it.

I mean uninstal, just like I did.

[jubeidok 495]

Damn, I thought injecting a lil logic in this thread would put it to rest. =( OK, OK, let's try this, the other solution to this problem...

 

[GunnyITA 107]

it's true...spirit is dieing, and because of the increasing movement speed with a weapon, now everyone has a weapon on his hand and you can't handcuff someone.

 

It's impossible to stop people as they run away or return fire, bambi are so silly to try attacking you and..It's OK that is a KOS game but...hell no interaction, now i've got fear of anyone....

[Testnewbie 34]

Things will change once we have persistant loot ---> trading goods ---> a little bit of economy. But again, I think it´s mostly a 3rd person server problem because "kids" usually don´t play on hardcore servers. At least that´s my experience. I have my non pvp character for a loooong time now and I met a lot of people. Civilian clothes, careful approaches and communication together with visiting small towns and staying away from pvp zones will give you a nice experience outside of KoS/pvp. Same experiences I had in the Mod back in the days. 

[randomspawn 215]

Not really... Dean has always been very open that they never expected such a high sales count and he still claims that DayZ is being developed for a very niche group of players. All in all, this can be just PR talk but I'm actually willing to believe him.

 

It will all turn out as we get closer to the release date, whether the game follows Dean's original vision of people struggling to survive fighting each other with "sticks and stones", or whether they all caved in to the market demand for another deathmatch shooter with zombies and an open world.

Dean has stated he is out of here by the end of the year, and we probably won't be in Beta by then. That means the entire fine tuning of the game will occur sans Dean. BI has bough out other companies just to help development on this game. Guess what, they don't want a niche game, I think that ship sailed 3 months ago. This game is striving to be 5-10Million games sold. Who knows exactly how it will turn out, but I am fairly certain it won't be anything close to niche.

[Intactus 128]

The "Spirit of Dayz" is far from death.

I've put around 200h into Standalone atm. During that time i've encountered, a rough guess: 30 people.

Out of those 30 people i have KOS'd two or three.
Out of those 30 two have KOS'd me.
So out of those 30 people, i've hand a convo with 25 people.

Few of those have naturally ended in someone's death because of hostility, retards or otherwise shit going south but majority have been decent people. Many of them i've teamed up with. Some of them are now in my Steam friends.

If you get KOS'd, your're doing something wrong. If you get executed, backstabbed, betrayed or some shit, you're doing something wrong.

I have no idea what these people are doing wrong but you kinda need to adapt to the people you are dealing with.
It's like, people going to a shithole biker bar straight up from Bieber gig and then crying when they get fucked up just for the giggles.

TL;DR

If you get KOS'd, work on your Dayz skills.
If you get killed for fun, work on your people skills.
 

[smoq2 221]

Dean has stated he is out of here by the end of the year, and we probably won't be in Beta by then. That means the entire fine tuning of the game will occur sans Dean. BI has bough out other companies just to help development on this game. Guess what, they don't want a niche game, I think that ship sailed 3 months ago. This game is striving to be 5-10Million games sold. Who knows exactly how it will turn out, but I am fairly certain it won't be anything close to niche.

 

Yeah, everything seems to hint towards what you're saying. I guess I fell into wishful thinking for a bit.

[Pandema 352]

I dunno, since theres literally nothing to do yet at this point besides KoS, its fine.

 

Now if there were other things we were supposed to be doing besides DMing in the NE I could see a problem. But right now all we are able to do is eat, drink and shoot.

[hombrecz 832]

it's true...spirit is dieing, and because of the increasing movement speed with a weapon, now everyone has a weapon on his hand and you can't handcuff someone.

 

It's impossible to stop people as they run away or return fire, bambi are so silly to try attacking you and..It's OK that is a KOS game but...hell no interaction, now i've got fear of anyone....

 

Lol so you are one of those who are trying to "ninja" handcuff folks?

Man, I got robbed even without them bandits having handcuffs.

They just aimed at my head and demanded me to drop all my stuff.

 

I complied, they stole my food and took my mosin ammo, but rest they left.

Ok, they fed me few earth worms before leaving,but I managed to find water pump and drink till I puked and later I found charcoal.

 

I'm trying to say, that the interaction is in the game, it is just tad harder then shooting.

What irks me more is when so many folks are deathmatching in Berezino and thats all they do.

[Element47 2480]

I dunno, since theres literally nothing to do yet at this point besides KoS, its fine.

 

Now if there were other things we were supposed to be doing besides DMing in the NE I could see a problem. But right now all we are able to do is eat, drink and shoot.

 

welcome to a sandbox.

 

despite your claim, i have taken part in a bookclub, i have been on two disco parties, i have met traders, i made friends with the 'shoeless freak' and a few other, highly irregular gentlemen, each of them being highly entertaining and making my play session worthwhile, i have run supply runs and medic runs, we had photo safaris for the most stunning sunrise/sunset picture in chernarus.. and thats me playing only casually.

 

of course i also had a few shootings, from random potshots of people who just want to not be shot themselves to ruthless roof snipers, who in turn made several strangers band together to overcome the common threat.

 

and if you look at MMOs with open pvp. or multiplayer games which allow pvp/friendly fire, you will always have people shooting each other - no matter how many other possible objectives or things to do there are.

[bfisher 561]

The funny thing about these kind of threads...

 

How do you know how many times someone observed, but didn't kill you?

 

I know how many times I've observed someone and didn't kill them and it freak me the hell out knowing someone might be doing the same to me...right now!!

 

If the OP think the spirit of DayZ is dying because of all the KoS, to that I say "Hi!  Welcome to DayZ!"  That's been around since Day1 of DayZ.

 

I do think the spirit of DayZ is dying a bit though.  No vehicles.  Hardly any zombies.  Spawning at Berezino instead of Kamenka through Electro.  The weird and obtuse food and water health system replacing the food / drink / blood icons that flashed when they got too low.  The lack of ghillie-suited snipers shooting at you from a mile away with ridiculously over-powered anti-material rifles (hey...that was part of the spirit too).

 

Don't get me wrong.  I know a lot of stuff is in the works. IMHO it just doesn't quite have the feel of the old Mod.

[GunnyITA 107]

Lol so you are one of those who are trying to "ninja" handcuff folks?

Man, I got robbed even without them bandits having handcuffs.

They just aimed at my head and demanded me to drop all my stuff.

 

I complied, they stole my food and took my mosin ammo, but rest they left.

Ok, they fed me few earth worms before leaving,but I managed to find water pump and drink till I puked and later I found charcoal.

 

I'm trying to say, that the interaction is in the game, it is just tad harder then shooting.

What irks me more is when so many folks are deathmatching in Berezino and thats all they do.

 

No i do not ninja, i do stop them and in group. But the result is always the same...

[irl-calibre 744]

i've just reached the 500 hour mark, I haven't died since last December 16th or patch.28 - & I disagree op just needs to "git gud"