Six Upcoming Developments That Will Change DayZ for the Better - Loot Rarity (wait, whaat?)

[gibonez 3633]

I like this.

 

Look at the state of the game today, you can have something be as rare as possible, and people will farm the heck out of it. Most players do not stop loot farming until they have the best gear they can. With this change it add the possibilitiy that this item will never spawn until someone that uses it lose it or die; because the amount available is currently at the quota set by the devs.

 

Pretty much this.

 

With the current system nothing truly is rare you can always find it and plenty of it. Just look at what is probably currently the rarest item in the game the LRS it can easily be found in huge quantities if you really want to.

 

 

The other huge positive of finite resources or finite items is that it increases that sense of paranoia and fear that you get when you have good gear on you. People with truly rare loot will be extremely scared to lose it.

[WashedUpPoet 6]

I have to say I like the idea, on paper it looks good, Yeah, it might not work but it really is a good way to hand over controll to the players. It allows us to create our own economy , Placing a Value on particular ithems.

Of course there are some flaws with this but they could be worked out over time. Trial and error friend.

[calabam 55]

Yeah all good and well but when Hall leaves people will be crying for all these loot items and whoever will be in charge will crank up the loot button and all but a few of the guys who think they are living the game in real-life will be happy.

[trev186 389]

Pretty much this.

With the current system nothing truly is rare you can always find it and plenty of it. Just look at what is probably currently the rarest item in the game the LRS it can easily be found in huge quantities if you really want to.

The other huge positive of finite resources or finite items is that it increases that sense of paranoia and fear that you get when you have good gear on you. People with truly rare loot will be extremely scared to lose it.

The LRS is not rare at all I can find 3-4 in a single NWAF run....

Having ultra rare items limited to only a few hundred in a game purchased by millions is dumb...

It will be like wow with legendaries...people will be more concerned with obtaining the item than having fun...

And trust me there will be plenty of people like me who obtain these items and hide our way far north and avoid most social contact. It wont be clans who hold these items long...they will die doing fighting with other clans...then the item will lilly get ruined or dmged (anything not pristine is trash at my current level) and thrown out.

Once some less aggressive player finds it they will never give it up.

There are 3 types of geared players in dayz

1. Aggressive (bandits/clans/KOS/heroes) who seek out people to kill and eventually die off themselves. Many seek death just for the sake of starting fresh

2. Friendly/social....they want to PVE...eventually killed by group 1

3. Passive/cautious. This is where I fall in. Stay in remote areas, scout carefully, only play with people I know IRL and only kill those I have. Rather go unseen than risk interaction. Will loot high risk areas when certain conditions are met that guarantee safety. When things get boring between patches I quit playing til the next patch as opposed to searching for death. For people like me the thrill is in living as long as possible. I keep track of the hours I have played and prefer to practice stalking others unseen (usually at night).

In the case of loot rarity once the rare item falls into group 3 it is more likely they quit playing before they are killed and therefore the item is gone forever.

Now factor in they want to add underground bases that will persit through death so players can stock pile gear there and all these ultra rare items will be tucked away safely.

On another note why would things like NVG be so limited ? I can see why they would only spawn at millitary bases or maybe SWAT team type police areas...but come on nothing rare...I guarantee you a millitary force stationed in the woods would have plenty on hand...

If your going to make rare items make them somthing very badass and also something kinda odd at the same time...like say a golden plated gun or something just style like.

As for vehicles I could care less about them and feel they will only ruin the game.

Edited July 2, 2014 by trev186

[Bruce of Wayne 81]

This is just gonna promote server hopping. Why can't they just make items rare with a low spawn rate, like 0.01%? Dean, you should probably explain yourself.

[gibonez 3633]

If your going to make rare items make them somthing very badass and also something kinda odd at the same time...like say a golden plated gun or something just style like.

 

 

This is why I imagine such a system was conceived for. I can already see multiple slightly different versions of weapons that are the same as the basic weapon when it comes to damage and accuracy but the only difference is some kind of visual change.

 

 

Having ultra rare items limited to only a few hundred in a game purchased by millions is dumb...

 

How so ? People are not entitled to receive all of the best loot just because they bought the game. That is like saying everyone who purchases wow automatically deserves to have the best legendary items in the game.

 

Buying the game should only give you the possibility to find these rare items. The idea of finite resources is fantastic, it might turn out to be the thing that finally makes military firearms extremely rare in game.

[trev186 389]

This is why I imagine such a system was conceived for. I can already see multiple slightly different versions of weapons that are the same as the basic weapon when it comes to damage and accuracy but the only difference is some kind of visual change.

 

 

How so ? People are not entitled to receive all of the best loot just because they bought the game. That is like saying everyone who purchases wow automatically deserves to have the best legendary items in the game.

 

Buying the game should only give you the possibility to find these rare items. The idea of finite resources is fantastic, it might turn out to be the thing that finally makes military firearms extremely rare in game.

Let me clarify I would agree with you that flavor items like a golden AKM or maybe helicopters and cars (cause they are death traps). Those are fine being super rare to me....

BUT in the initial post NVGs or a rifle like the SVD were used as examples of items that would be ultra rare...in the case of items which would give one player an extremely high advantage over a similiarly geared player I do not think this limitation should be placed...

I am perfectly fine and enjoy what they did with the M4 though. I wish they would swap up loot a lot better as well. Like spawn the SKS, mousin and shotguns only in the residential/farm areas (policemen and modern millitary are not using these). Add different types of shotguns more commonly used by police to the police station. Leave AKM and sniper rifles and other types of millitary grade weapons in the millitary bases.

Also any changes like the above should apply to their attatchments...so chapped at the amount of shotgun and blaze speedloaders u find at NWAF...

[hefeweizen 254]

Really don't get why people are saying this would promote server hopping, you're not going to know if the server you're on has the item you're looking for and you're not going to be able to look everywhere on said server either. So hoppers wouldn't have any advantage, especially if the chance for rare items is tied to server population.

I also think people are taking Dean's number WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to literally. It won't be 100 guns for a million players, but that is the general idea: Loot distributed proportionally across all servers with some items being so rare that they won't be spawned at all on some servers.

Lastly, there are a lot of people coming up with scenarios about why a mechanic like this won't work: You're not especially bright. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, if you think you have already figured out some way to circumvent this mechanic then the game developers have no doubt already thought of that possibility and have a solution to that potential problem already. All the people who's responses consisted of "Durrr... People will just hoard the items forever!" or "Huuuurrr..... Imma throw all the items in a lake!!!!" this is mostly about you.

[alsmir 255]

I don't think server hopping needs any more promoting, people will keep doing it anyway as long as it is possible.

 

This is one of the reasons why I'd stick to private hives in the mod. On a private hives looting was more interesting: nothing good in NWAF -> travel to Stary -> NEAF -> maybe as far as Balota or look for crashsites

And it was good, especially since it would work the same way even  if the server was empty. No bullshit of hopping between 10 servers when you get to NWAF and getting all the gear you'll ever need.

 

One character per server - the way it should be.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Yeah all good and well but when Hall leaves people will be crying for all these loot items and whoever will be in charge will crank up the loot button and all but a few of the guys who think they are living the game in real-life will be happy.

It's not a subscription based game, they have no incentive to do anything "the community" tell them.

[smoq2 221]

Really don't get why people are saying this would promote server hopping, you're not going to know if the server you're on has the item you're looking for and you're not going to be able to look everywhere on said server either. So hoppers wouldn't have any advantage, especially if the chance for rare items is tied to server population.

I also think people are taking Dean's number WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to literally. It won't be 100 guns for a million players, but that is the general idea: Loot distributed proportionally across all servers with some items being so rare that they won't be spawned at all on some servers.

Lastly, there are a lot of people coming up with scenarios about why a mechanic like this won't work: You're not especially bright. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, if you think you have already figured out some way to circumvent this mechanic then the game developers have no doubt already thought of that possibility and have a solution to that potential problem already. All the people who's responses consisted of "Durrr... People will just hoard the items forever!" or "Huuuurrr..... Imma throw all the items in a lake!!!!" this is mostly about you.

 

To answer your first paragraph: It does not promote server-hopping as you imagine - e.g. changing servers within the barracks or "jail" building until you find one server where the building has good loot / is not yet looted. It will promote simply constant changing servers as a means to play, which is in contradiction with any "storytelling"™ or "lore building"™.

 

It hinders immersion, RP possibilities, or in-game community development. Imagine a group building a base and obtaining e.g. 3 vehicles in said base. Now some other group miraculously appears from another dimension (other server) on the outskirts of the base saying "Huuurrrr... We came to steal your tires and heard about your base on the forum" (horrible metagaming). Now if the server was a true persistent world none of that would have happened.

 

To answer other paragraphs: Yes, people take Dean to literally but you're the one that's not too bright. You give the developers too much credit. If you had ever witnessed commercial software development first hand you would know that there are always gazillions of issues that designers, project leads and front-line developers are unaware of until after the release. Hence the very "early access" concept was born. What people are posting here as their opinions is actually very valuable feedback and your "Hurr... Durr... Stfu, devs know better." is actually more counter-productive than "This idea is shit!" of an average Joe's. 

Edited July 3, 2014 by retro19

[xalienax 621]

Pretty much this.

 

With the current system nothing truly is rare you can always find it and plenty of it. Just look at what is probably currently the rarest item in the game the LRS it can easily be found in huge quantities if you really want to.

 

 

The other huge positive of finite resources or finite items is that it increases that sense of paranoia and fear that you get when you have good gear on you. People with truly rare loot will be extremely scared to lose it.

so.. what you saying is the value of your life SHOULD be purely your loot?

 

Lastly, there are a lot of people coming up with scenarios about why a mechanic like this won't work: You're not especially bright. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, if you think you have already figured out some way to circumvent this mechanic then the game developers have no doubt already thought of that possibility and have a solution to that potential problem already. All the people who's responses consisted of "Durrr... People will just hoard the items forever!" or "Huuuurrr..... Imma throw all the items in a lake!!!!" this is mostly about you.

this paragraph disturbs me. you must be pretty oblivious if you honestly give developers (from any company) that much credit. even developers with a decade + of expereince cant prossibly forsee every potential player behavior. the sheer number of times games have had to have "rebalances" or even featured removed Post-release due to a certain handfull of players finding a particular way to abuse the heck out of that mechanic and spreading the word.

 

What's even scarier is them trying to "solve" the problem with even more artifical limitations like loose items if not loggged in for x time, or something like that. and all of these problems are only created by this hairbrained idea that has about as much worth as a pile of dung.

 

you are right in one thing tho, we can't predict it any way better then they can.

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//

this hairbrained idea that has about as much worth as a pile of dung.

 

check out the 'Soil Food Web'

[you don't live in the country?]

 

Considered as an effective organic fertilizer, horse manure is widely used for gardening. Pre-pasteurized manure is steamed for 3-4 hours which guarantees freshness of the product. Two 50-pound bags are sold for $38 to $45. For larger purchases, a ton of manure can cost $22 to $40 per ton, plus delivery charges.

(howmuchisit.org)

Edited July 3, 2014 by pilgrim

[hefeweizen 254]

 even developers with a decade + of expereince cant prossibly forsee every potential player behavior. 

Every potential player behavior? No.

The idiots on this message boards coming up with imaginary reasons this mechanic wouldn't work? Absolutely.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[rickyspanish 158]

Terrible idea in my opinion, I just cant see it working out the way rocket thinks it will. I understand what he's trying to do but it pretty much encourages exploiting and server hopping. It opens up possibilities of griefing and people will try and make money out of rare items outside of the game.

I wouldn't mind it implemented for a select group of ultra rare items but I'd rather see them do something a little more dynamic like for a couple of weeks cut ammo, food, drink or medical supplies right back, force people to react to changing circumstances (without announcing it). One of the most interesting 'meta' incidents in DayZ's history was the bean wars when food wasn't spawning and everyone had to adapt to it. It'd keep everyone on their toes.

This idea I could get behind it sounds genius, imagine looting and noticing a severe lack of food, ammo, meds maybe even droughts randomly. Panic would set in and you would really have to work, search and fight for survival. People maybe even friends fighting over the last can of beans, groups forced to hunt and fish. It would make sense to stock up on food and water in preparation for such a situation.

[audax 207]

Really don't get why people are saying this would promote server hopping, you're not going to know if the server you're on has the item you're looking for and you're not going to be able to look everywhere on said server either. So hoppers wouldn't have any advantage, especially if the chance for rare items is tied to server population.

I also think people are taking Dean's number WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to literally. It won't be 100 guns for a million players, but that is the general idea: Loot distributed proportionally across all servers with some items being so rare that they won't be spawned at all on some servers.

Lastly, there are a lot of people coming up with scenarios about why a mechanic like this won't work: You're not especially bright. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise, if you think you have already figured out some way to circumvent this mechanic then the game developers have no doubt already thought of that possibility and have a solution to that potential problem already. All the people who's responses consisted of "Durrr... People will just hoard the items forever!" or "Huuuurrr..... Imma throw all the items in a lake!!!!" this is mostly about you.

hehe, they are just upset because it will be harder to find guns for their deathmachtes.  B)

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

This idea I could get behind it sounds genius, imagine looting and noticing a severe lack of food, ammo, meds maybe even droughts randomly. Panic would set in and you would really have to work, search and fight for survival. People maybe even friends fighting over the last can of beans, groups forced to hunt and fish. It would make sense to stock up on food and water in preparation for such a situation.

 

But then someone will say: " Terrible idea in my opinion, I just can't see it working out the way Ricky Spanish thinks it will. I understand what he's trying to do but it pretty much encourages exploiting and server hopping. It opens up possibilities of griefing and people will try and make money out of rare items (like beans) outside of the game."

 

see http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/201637-six-upcoming-developments-that-will-change-dayz-for-the-better-loot-rarity-wait-whaat/page-6#entry2031459

 

I think you and me might go with Rocket's idea ?

 

xx

Edited July 4, 2014 by pilgrim

[rickyspanish 158]

But then someone will say: " Terrible idea in my opinion, I just can't see it working out the way Ricky Spanish thinks it will. I understand what he's trying to do but it pretty much encourages exploiting and server hopping. It opens up possibilities of griefing and people will try and make money out of rare items (like beans) outside of the game."

 

see http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/201637-six-upcoming-developments-that-will-change-dayz-for-the-better-loot-rarity-wait-whaat/page-6#entry2031459

 

I think you and me might go with Rocket's idea ?

 

xx

 

Tbh I've warmed to rockets plan after some thought on the matter. I still like the other guys idea though of effecting food spawns to force people to use other means to get food. Changing Item rarity on the fly could lead to some pretty dynamic situations.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Tbh I've warmed to rockets plan after some thought on the matter. I still like the other guys idea though of effecting food spawns to force people to use other means to get food. Changing Item rarity on the fly could lead to some pretty dynamic situations.

 

Yeh : OK .. (announcement) : :    Tonight ALL the food's on  - <Freds Happy Elite Clan Server>  so GO GET It   : :

.. thousands of starving hoppers

[Zed's Dead 67]

I dont understand this strategy of game development. Are all the decisions being made coming from the concept creator and not being discussed with industry proven game developers? I ask because I believe that experienced game industry people would have strongly argued against the idea of persistent items across all servers. It will be a nightmare. This idea proves what a bubble the executive guy is in. This is really bad news guys. This explains a lot about what may be the issues with this awesome idea of a game. I really hope that some more experienced directors will get involved in the game.

For one thing...... People will hoard items . Even worse, they will sell them on craigslist.

[pilgrim* 3514]

I dont understand this strategy of game development.

Are all the decisions being made coming from the concept creator and not being discussed with industry proven game developers?

..//..

 

Well .. Bohemia Interactive IS an industry proven game developer

 

I guess SonyOE could come and discuss H1Z1 with Bohemia Interactive, and BI could give them some pointers .. if S0E wanted to discuss it's decisions with an industry proven game developer like BI ... and not just rely on ideas from it's own concept creators.

 

Say!  - we could all ask Disney what they think, they are so cool ! and wealthy too.

Edited July 25, 2014 by pilgrim

[tootights (DayZ) 26]

Each server needs to be its own standalone game, independent. +1

 

 

I think its a horrible concept and flawed design personally. I would rather that each server was a self contained 'Chernarus' and could have a small chance of spawning everything in the game item list. Things like NV and Military snipers might have under a 1% Spawn rate, but you would know the chance is there. In the 'self contained' solution you could really make home on a server, knowing you won't have to hop onto others. I think the global hopping concept presented by Hall here is a bad concept which will force multiple server hopping and really detriorate the gaming experience overall. Imagine having to hop servers just to get a vechicle part, and then the server its on gets full or crashes. We need the servers to be stable , reliable, and not hopping around chasing a piece of un-obtainable gear.
I get where he's coming from, but Im coming from a gamers perspective, where parts are already rare and never spawn when you need them.  this just sounds like a nightmare

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The only thing this achieves is for large clans to spread their members out to hop for the rarest and best loot. This is the dumbest thing Bohemia could do for an online game. Hoarding will run rampant with the largest clans being the victor.

[Zed's Dead 67]

Well .. Bohemia Interactive IS an industry proven game developer

I guess SonyOE could come and discuss H1Z1 with Bohemia Interactive, and BI could give them some pointers .. if S0E wanted to discuss it's decisions with an industry proven game developer like BI ... and not just rely on ideas from it's own concept creators.

Say! - we could all ask Disney what they think, they are so cool ! and wealthy too.

You missed the point. I was asking if all decisions are being made by Rocket and are his inexperienced ideas not being challenged or being dicussed by the developers. This would totally explain the slow progress and strange priorities we have seen.