Here is the information I gathered about the CR527 from the in-game files

[Deathlove 2286]

It will and it should.

GOOD! You don't know how many times i tried giving that stupid .22 sporter a fighting chance before i just gave up. Fighting moving zombies is impossible without a magazine and you normally find them when you don't need them. XD

[hombrecz 832]

GOOD! You don't know how many times i tried giving that stupid .22 sporter a fighting chance before i just gave up. Fighting moving zombies is impossible without a magazine and you normally find them when you don't need them. XD

 

Only places I found sporter mags were jail buildings and army tents, which made Sporter totaly useless.

As I QQ'ed many times, Sporter's mag needs to go to strictly civilian loot to make Sporter viable.

Personaly I would love to try surviving with Sporter provided I had atleast 5 round magazine for it.

[Deathlove 2286]

Only places I found sporter mags were jail buildings and army tents, which made Sporter totaly useless.

As I QQ'ed many times, Sporter's mag needs to go to strictly civilian loot to make Sporter viable.

Personaly I would love to try surviving with Sporter provided I had atleast 5 round magazine for it.

Yeah thats what i dont understand about the gun. You can find the Sporter in most civilian areas that carries guns but most of the time You only find the mags in high end loot spots like police stations or military barracks making the gun totally useless for mid to latter game gearing up. In fact any of the none military zone strict weapons in most areas you will end up taking over the .22 Sporter anyways if you have tried it in the past without a magazine. Your even more likely to find the pistol tiered magazines in military areas before you ever find any of the .22 Sporter magazines lol.

[hombrecz 832]

 

Here's an article filled with quotes and anecdotes about the evolution of .223 into the 77gr bullets they are today and how they're performing in the field. Not the report I saw before but you'll get the idea.  And keep in mind that most soldiers are issued the 62gr rounds.  You can't want both realism and 1-shot drops from an M4.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/08/the_last_big_lie_of_vietnam_ki.html

 

If that article is close to the truth, then 5.56x45 is more shitty caliber than I've ever thought.

Maybe the good old M. Kalashnikov was right. He said, that when USSR adopted smaller 5.45x39 to replace 7.62x39 it was a big mistake. USSR did this because they thought, that USA must have known something when they adopted 5.56.

In the end they both might have fallen to false marketing.

 

Source 

Edited July 3, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

If that article is close to the truth, then 5.56x45 is more shitty caliber than I've ever thought.

Maybe the good old M. Kalashnikov was right. He said, that when USSR adopted smaller 5.45x39 to replace 7.62x39 it was a big mistake. USSR did this because they thought, that USA must have known something when they adopted 5.56.

In the end they both might have fallen to false marketing.

 

5.56x45 is plenty deadly part of the problem is that much like real life the damage a 5.56 round can do to a person is random and it all depends on shot placement. For every story you find of a guy taking 7 shots to die I am sure you can find stories of 5.56 killing a person with a single shot.

 

Reminds me of this old story from Iraq.

 

When a six-man Special Operations team looking for Scuds in Iraq in early 2003 ran into a reinforced Iraqi infantry company, the future looked grim for the Americans. Facing overwhelming odds, it was quickly decided that three men armed with sniper rifles would cover a hasty retreat back to the LZ. With these odds death, or worse, seemed certain.

Yet the ensuing firefight did not go as the Iraqis had planned. Rather than being overwhelmed, the three American Snipers instead put down a hail of highly accurate rifle fire. Advancing against this murderous wall, entire sections of Iraqi infantry were simply cut down. Screaming and rattling away with their Kalashnikovs on full auto, they were knocked from their feet with carefully aimed shots. When staggering losses finally broke their spirit, the surviving Iraqis either threw down their weapons or simply ran away. Scattered about lay the bodies of 167 of their comrades. The Iraqi dead lay in mute testimony to the Americans' tenacity and marksmanship skills.

With the criticism of poor terminal performance leveled by many on the 5.56X45mm, you would think those 167 Iraqis were cut down by 7.62X51mm M14s. Such was not the case. They fell to 5.56X45mm MK-12 Mod 0/1 sniper rifles firing 77gr MK-262 Mod 1. Developed to offer increased accuracy, range and improved terminal performance over the standard 62gr M-855 load, the MK-262 Mod 1 has performed quite well in actual combat. This impressive combat record has stimulated a great deal of interest among civilian shooters, so we thought we'd take a look at this load.

When work was undertaken on what was to eventually become the MK-12 series of sniper rifles it was understood from the outset that a better 5.56mm load would be needed. Standard M-855 MP-Ball (Multi Purpose-Ball) was deemed unsuitable due to its accuracy and terminal performance criteria. Manufacturing specifications for this load only require it to shoot into four MOA from 100 to 600 meters. For use at 600+ yards a projectile with a higher ballistic coefficient was desirable to reduce drop and wind drift. The question was how to make the 5.56mm into a viable 600+ yard cartridge.

While competition shooters, or "yellow glasses", are often scorned by the tactical crowd, they laid the ground work in this regard. Loads using 75, 77 and 80gr HPBT match bullets began to dominate service-rifle competition in the late 1990s. One company that was at the forefront of loading extremely accurate and consistent 5.56mm match ammo was Black Hills Ammunition. Its 5.56mm match ammo was so good, from lot to lot, that it had contracts from all the armed forces rifle teams. This was quite a testimony to both Black Hills and its workers. So, Black Hills was contacted about the specific needs and requirements the military had for this new 5.56mm combat load.

Testing was undertaken using a variety of projectiles and powders, with the goal being enhanced accuracy and terminal performance at extended distances. At first a 73gr Berger Open Tip Match bullet was selected, then changed to a 77gr Nosler Open Tip Match bullet. This load with the 77gr Nosler was called the MK-262 Mod 0. This was later changed to a 77gr Sierra MatchKing, and was named the MK-262 Mod 1. Rather than being loaded to commercial .223 Remington pressures, this ammunition was loaded to higher 5.56mm NATO pressures to enhance performance. The resulting load was very similar to match ammunition loaded for the Army Marksmanship Unit for use in competition.

The ML-12's ammunition evolved and was eventually type-classified as MK-262 Mod 0 and Mod 1. The primary difference between the two is the addition of a semi-cannelure to the Mod 1 projectile to prevent bullet setback during feeding.

Both terminal performance and accuracy of this ammunition are markedly improved over M-855 MP-Ball. Each lot is tested for accuracy by firing 10, 10-shot groups at 300 yards. The average group size is between two and two and a half inches. Due to the way the 77gr Sierra MatchKing behaves in soft tissue, this load offers dramatically increased terminal performance compared to the M855; while still being Land Warfare legal. The downside is that penetration is not as good as the M-855 round on harder targets or body armor.

Curious as to how the MK-262 Mod 1 would compare, I arranged to test some out of a MK-12 Mod 0 clone built by Angus Arms. Initial testing was performed from a bench at 100 yards by the rifle's builder, Angus Norcross of Angus Arms. Five-round groups were fired, and velocity was recorded 12 feet from the muzzle with an Oehler 35P chronograph. Five rounds of 62gr M-855 MP-Ball were fired first as a control.

The M-855 grouped into 2.37 inches at an average velocity of 3,044 FPS; unimpressive but within specifications for this load. Switching to Black Hills 77gr MK-262 Mod 1 cut the group size dramatically. Four rounds clustered into less than half an inch, and Norcross put all five into .6 inch. Most impressive was the velocity of this 5.56mm pressure load. The 77gr Sierras were averaging 2,783 fps from the short 18-inch barrel of the MK-12 Mod 0. In comparison a Black Hills .223 Remington-pressure 77gr match load averaged 2,615 FPS from the same rifle.

From the bench we moved to shooting prone from a ridgeline. Conditions were cold, with an ambient temperature of 30 degrees and wind gusts up to 12 mph. A heavy layer of snow covered the ground. After posting targets 300 yards away I proceeded to fire five-shot groups off the bipod.

First up was the M-855, which grouped into a fairly respectable 5.25 inches. Switching to MK-262 Mod 1 cut group size almost in half. This load averaged three inches at this distance. What was most impressive was how controllable and easy to hit with the MK-12 rifle was with this load. Making rapid multiple hits on multiple targets at random distances is simple. The gun simply spits empty cases.

Without a doubt, the MK-262 Mod 1 has proven very effective in actual combat. It's capable of excellent accuracy out to 700+ yards if you can call the wind. Terminal performance is a noticeable step up from M-855. While it was originally intended for use in the MK-12 series sniper rifles, its enhanced terminal performance has led to it being used in M-4 carbines as well. Basically, it's a desirable commodity being used by whatever troops can get their hands on it.

MK-262 Mod 1 Specifications

Manufacturer: Black Hills Ammunition

Caliber: 5.56X45mm NATO

Bullet: 77gr .224" Sierra Match King, Semi-Cannelured

Color Code: None

Casing: Black Hillls 5.56X45mm Match, Sealed for Submerssion, Crimped Primer

Head Stamp: None

Velocity: 2,791 FPS out of an 18" Bbl

Testing Notes: Velocities are an average of 10 rounds recorded 12 feet from the muzzle with an Oehler 35P chronograph at an ambient temperature of 30 degrees fahrenheit at 100 feet above sea level.

 

 

It was a guns and ammo article that I can no longer find. Newer 5.56 ammo is plenty deadly but more importantly it is so much more accurate than old 5.56 ammo that was issued.

 

1 moa out of a mk 12 spr is pretty amazing considering it is an off the rack semi auto rifle. 1 moa is pretty darn impressive out of a civilian bolt gun but 1 moa out of a military rifle is daam amazing.

 

 

 

When the bullet strikes soft tissue, the heavier base comes around and causes the bullet to yaw, or tumble. The hollow nose cone breaks off and often the bullet fragments at the cannelure. This happens across a wide range of the velocity spectrum, which is why MK 262 Mod 1 proved effective in SBRs in addition to the longer-barreled SPRs. M855—or “Green Tip”—ammo was designed for battles with a body-armor-equipped army, hence the name “Penetrator.” On unarmored targets, it just zips through like it was designed to do. MK 262 was a better option for the enemy the military was fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, though the round obviously does not penetrate as much as M855.

Read more: http://www.shootingtimes.com/2012/03/21/special-forces-to-civilians-black-hills-mk-262-mod-1-review/#ixzz36O509MOk

 

 

 

The 5.56 is plenty deadly and any problems of its weak terminal ballistics are all in the past.

 

I would have no problems taking a .223 rifle to hunt even big game as long as I had something like a 77 grain soft point but unfortunately it is illegal where I live and have to resort to .30 cals.

Edited July 3, 2014 by gibonez

[hombrecz 832]

5.56x45 is plenty deadly part of the problem is that much like real life the damage a 5.56 round can do to a person is random and it all depends on shot placement. For every story you find of a guy taking 7 shots to die I am sure you can find stories of 5.56 killing a person with a single shot.

 

Reminds me of this old story from Iraq.

 

It was a guns and ammo article that I can no longer find. Newer 5.56 ammo is plenty deadly but more importantly it is so much more accurate than old 5.56 ammo that was issued.

 

1 moa out of a mk 12 spr is pretty amazing considering it is an off the rack semi auto rifle. 1 moa is pretty darn impressive out of a civilian bolt gun but 1 moa out of a military rifle is daam amazing.

 

The article mentiones special 5.56 with 77g, which is probably not what most of the grunts have.

Ofc I can only wildly speculate, I am FAR from anything close to gun expert or something, so I woun't pretend I am one.

 

It's just that I think M. Kalashnikov knew his job + there are attempts to introduce 6.5  as well as 6.8 caliber to the army, so I can kinda believe that both 5.56 and 5.45 might be underperforming somehow and certainly not fit for future.

 

Also what I believe is, that business founded on manufacturing of 5.56x45 will oppose this plus any mass rearming would cost a lot of money and big spending is not very popular these days.

[gibonez 3633]

The article mentiones special 5.56 with 77g, which is probably not what most of the grunts have.

Ofc I can only wildly speculate, I am FAR from anything close to gun expert or something, so I woun't pretend I am one.

 

It's just that I think M. Kalashnikov knew his job + there are attempts to introduce 6.5  as well as 6.8 caliber to the army, so I can kinda believe that both 5.56 and 5.45 might be underperforming somehow and certainly not fit for future.

 

Also what I believe is, that business founded on manufacturing of 5.56x45 will oppose this plus any mass rearming would cost a lot of money and big spending is not very popular these days.

 

True but they are issued a new improved round that is nearly as lethal and actually penetrates steel better than 7.62x51 nato.

They replaced the round with poor terminal ballistics the m885 with the m885a1 the Marines apparently adopted a different round an open tip round that performs almost identical to the mk262 as of 2012.

 

 

I spoke with a good friend with multiple combat tours in both Iraq and Afghanistan. His experiences as both a Special Forces sniper team leader and assaulter offered a unique perspective on ammo performance. As a sniper, MK 262 was his preferred round (when he was not using 7.62x51mm NATO), and he said simply, “It’s the best, most accurate round the Army has ever issued.” When carrying the shorter SBR, he ranked Hornady’s 75-grain TAP as the most lethal, followed by MK 318 and with MK 262 riding herd at third. Anything was better than M855 in a CQB environment.

“All 5.56 rounds suck out of SBRs, but MK 262 is way better than M855,” he said. “The only time M855 shines is when you are shooting through intermediate barriers like car doors.”

Read more: http://www.shootingtimes.com/2012/03/21/special-forces-to-civilians-black-hills-mk-262-mod-1-review/#ixzz36O5hF7r8

 

 

Like you I am also not an expert but I have shot plenty of 5.56 nato in my life and I truly cannot understand how anyone can take one to the chest and not be mortally wounded immediately. Even if it is just a super charged 22 , 5.56 hits steel hard even at 500 yards.

Edited July 3, 2014 by gibonez

[scubaman3d 680]

7 shots even to an extremely drugged out person seems insanely excessive.

 

Still, most of the complaints I'm reading in this discussion boil down to the lack of wounding effects, not necessarily the lethality of the M4 (which I maintain, is not a one-shot stopper). 

 

We definitely want wounding effects. 

[gibonez 3633]

Still, most of the complaints I'm reading in this discussion boil down to the lack of wounding effects, not necessarily the lethality of the M4 (which I maintain, is not a one-shot stopper). 

 

We definitely want wounding effects. 

 

Awesome I remember a wounding animation a long time ago in one of the experimental builds I cannot remember if it was due to a gunshot wound or a broken arm but whatever it was it caused the player to limp and hop along slowly and it was truly slick looking.

 

Edited July 3, 2014 by gibonez

[Hetstaine 10852]

Just saying it would be nice to have the .223 ammo lying around in civilian areas for this hunting rifle.

Similar to the Brown Bear 7.62 ammo they could make a nice Wolf .223 ammo box

 

Got the Fox at least ;)