.380 ACP Coming To DayZ! [Torchia Reddit]

[Zoring 25]

Skorpion SMG would be the best addition for a SMG sidearm in the game.

[Deathlove 2286]

Skorpion SMG would be the best addition for a SMG sidearm in the game.

Well you know they are going to put more SMGs in its just a matter of when really. They still have yet to put in the sniper rifle classes, LMGs and rocket launcher shit yet. Allot of these would be ubber rare but i would expect maybe one of there type by at least the end of development. A rocket launcher maybe a little more far fetched BUT at a military armory maybe not so much. O,o

 

There are plenty of areas in the game they can still use for hidden military surplus bunkers.

[Katana67 2907]

 

Again, this is why I think we need to have a decisive conversation on what should be hyper rare and/or regulated by the upcoming loot management system. Because I'm not entirely convinced the SVD fits the bill. It's not very modular, has a limited magazine capacity (by comparison to other DMRs/BRs), and has limited access to optics as it stands now (see the PSO-1 being a 4x optic).

 

Granted, they could make it as modular as they like via the attachment system. But I haven't seen any evidence so far that this is the case.

 

 

I'm really, really, really glad that this concern has been recognized. The SVD was one of the outliers in my proposal for being able to tweak the weapon-caliber-utilization concept that I've championed. 7.62x54R (or whatever round they end up having it use, be it the current amalgamated 7.62x51 or not) is pretty unique in and of itself. Like I've said before, only the SVD, Mosin, and PKM really use it these days (with some room for the SV-98).

 

The argument can be made here, that the SVD should be made rare because it uses relatively common ammunition. That is its selling point. That's what makes it attractive. Not the modularity. Not the magazine capacity. Not only the fact that it's a DMR. In this case, having common ammunition is the reason for making something rare.

 

So, that could be a way of looking at it. But, I think that you have to look at the weapon-magazine-caliber-utilization continuum and all of the innate properties of the round and weapon in order to weigh the item in terms of whether to make it rare or not. Focusing on any one fact to make it rare/common isn't a complete action, you have to look at everything.

 

 

This is interesting, whatever it means. Hopefully it just means that they're going to make the M4A1 a bit better and perhaps remedy the issues with the shotgun. Other than that, I have very few issues with the performance of the rest of the weapons.

[hombrecz 832]

 

This is interesting, whatever it means. Hopefully it just means that they're going to make the M4A1 a bit better and perhaps remedy the issues with the shotgun. Other than that, I have very few issues with the performance of the rest of the weapons.

 

Also AKM with almost zero spread needs fixing. Shotguns you have mentioned, but also pistols need to be bit more accurate to allow for some 30-40m shotouts.

 

So all in all, there is a lot of room for weapon improvement.

 

btw very nice that Devs start seeing problems due to caliber streamlining, maybe that will help to change their point of view and allow more calibers into the game. 

Also SVD is not that super great, Mosin, as it is now, coupled with Hunting Scope, is very near what SVD could do. I see SVD better only because of semi-auto and 10 round magazine, but not in reach or accuracy (mosin is too acurate now).

[Deathlove 2286]

Also AKM with almost zero spread needs fixing. Shotguns you have mentioned, but also pistols need to be bit more accurate to allow for some 30-40m shotouts.

 

So all in all, there is a lot of room for weapon improvement.

 

btw very nice that Devs start seeing problems due to caliber streamlining, maybe that will help to change their point of view and allow more calibers into the game. 

Also SVD is not that super great, Mosin, as it is now, coupled with Hunting Scope, is very near what SVD could do. I see SVD better only because of semi-auto and 10 round magazine, but not in reach or accuracy (mosin is too acurate now).

That and maybe a better scope but who knows really.

[Katana67 2907]

btw very nice that Devs start seeing problems due to caliber streamlining, maybe that will help to change their point of view and allow more calibers into the game. 

Also SVD is not that super great, Mosin, as it is now, coupled with Hunting Scope, is very near what SVD could do. I see SVD better only because of semi-auto and 10 round magazine, but not in reach or accuracy (mosin is too acurate now).

 

Personally, I think there are two things that could also be done to remedy the SVD/Mosin conundrum.

 

1. Remove the LRS from the Mosin. Leave the PU scope as the highest magnification optic for the Mosin.

2. Give the SVD the capability to either mount the LRS, or, add a POSP/PSO 8x42 scope to the SVD.

[hombrecz 832]

Personally, I think there are two things that could also be done to remedy the SVD/Mosin conundrum.

 

1. Remove the LRS from the Mosin. Leave the PU scope as the highest magnification optic for the Mosin.

2. Give the SVD the capability to either mount the LRS, or, add a POSP/PSO 8x42 scope to the SVD.

 

Personaly I like both of them!

Mosin should probably not be poor man's sniper rifle, so PU scope should be enough.

 

That and maybe a better scope but who knows really.

 

True, we don't know anything how SVD will be in the game. I'm just saying, that SVD itself isn't super good sniper rifle, but rather DMR kind of rifle for engagements at around 700m or so.

[Deathlove 2286]

Personaly I like both of them!

Mosin should probably not be poor man's sniper rifle, so PU scope should be enough.

 

 

True, we don't know anything how SVD will be in the game. I'm just saying, that SVD itself isn't super good sniper rifle, but rather DMR kind of rifle for engagements at around 700m or so.

Id take an M107 over that any day to be honest. Who the hell wouldnt if you had access to one or something with similar penetration capabilities? XD

[hombrecz 832]

Id take an M107 over that any day to be honest. Who the hell wouldnt if you had access to one or something with similar penetration capabilities? XD

 

Heh yes, still I kinda don't need to have .50 cals in DayZ. Surely not without stamina system (you run slower with that beast) and improved sniping mechanics so that you can't just hipfire .50 cal or have great accuracy while standing,  like it was possible in Mod.

 

If they made it really rare, maybe KSVK or czech Falcon would be nice.

Then again server hoppers might disturb the balance so I don't know....

 

Russian KSVK

 

Czech Falcon

But generaly speaking, I can live without .50 cals in DayZ.

They would really need to be done right if to be included into DayZ in the first place.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Hombre

[Deathlove 2286]

Heh yes, still I kinda don't need to have .50 cals in DayZ. Surely not without stamina system (you run slower with that beast) and improved sniping mechanics so that you can't just hipfire .50 cal or have great accuracy while standing,  like it was possible in Mod.

Well im sure they will put weight in to balance that and the fact that you would still be able to escape 10 or 50 zeds through a few structures and blow them all away in a tight corridor with an SMG, AR or LMG.

 

Carrying to much should fatigue you. Also I really think staggering animations and tripping should become a thing if your overweight to. The possibility of fracturing and breaking bones should be greatly increased if you so choose to carry to much.

[hombrecz 832]

Well im sure they will put weight in to balance that and the fact that you would still be able to escape 10 or 50 zeds through a few structures and blow them all away in a tight corridor with an SMG, AR or LMG.

 

Carrying to much should fatigue you. Also I really think staggering animations and tripping should become a thing if your overweight to. The possibility of fracturing and breaking bones should be greatly increased if you so choose to carry to much.

 

I'd kill for those limping animations to be in DayZ! Generaly when player is hurt, it should be visible in the way he moves and it should hamper his combat effectivity. Player should not receive 3x 7.62 bullets and return fire like nothing has happened or happily run away like freshly spawned.

 

EDIT: We might be getting tad offtopic here O_o.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Hombre

[Deathlove 2286]

I'd kill for those limping animations to be in DayZ! Generaly when player is hurt, it should be visible in the way he moves and it should hamper his combat effectivity. Player should not receive 3x 7.62 bullets and return fire like nothing has happened or happily run away like freshly spawned.

 

EDIT: We might be getting tad offtopic here O_o.

Not really but the animation for this needs to happen regardless.

 

But back on topic I think the SVD should be the more common sniper  gun than a few exclusive HARDER to find sniper guns that might offer different but slightly better properties. Throw in 2 or 3 American made brands and a handful of more local foreign ones i think we will be set.

 

Personally im waiting to see what LMG they put in. Im more interested in that.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Deathlove

[SFRGaming 718]

2. Give the SVD the capability to either mount the LRS,

IRL you can't do that without heavy modification. So I disagree

[hombrecz 832]

IRL you can't do that without heavy modification. So I disagree

 

The default SVD scope should be enough anyway. SVD does not need to be modular, maybe replacing wooden part with plastic ones, if Devs must have it.

 

 

Personally im waiting to see what LMG they put in. Im more interested in that.

 

What about czech LMG vz.59 Rachot (rumble) available in 7,62x54R or export version 7,62x51.

It is old beast, but still kinda works :). 

 

Edited July 20, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

The default SVD scope should be enough anyway. SVD does not need to be modular, maybe replacing wooden part with plastic ones, if Devs must have it.

 

If we're talking about the PSO-1, then it's 4x magnification. Compare that to the PU (3.5x) and ACOG (4x), then it really isn't all that advantageous. If the SVD is to be made into a rare weapon, then it needs to be advantageous. I don't see that happening if it's limited to a humble 4x scope.

 

With regard to modularity, I think they'd just have us be able to paint the SVD and its wooden parts like the Mosin.

[hombrecz 832]

If we're talking about the PSO-1, then it's 4x magnification. Compare that to the PU (3.5x) and ACOG (4x), then it really isn't all that advantageous. If the SVD is to be made into a rare weapon, then it needs to be advantageous. I don't see that happening if it's limited to a humble 4x scope.

 

With regard to modularity, I think they'd just have us be able to paint the SVD and its wooden parts like the Mosin.

 

Well SVD should have PSO-1 and I don't see any reason it should not have realistic magnification of 4x.

As you can check yourself, SVD is not hi-tech sniper for long range engagements, it's more of Russian DMR hence it does not need custom hi magnification scope.

This rifle was not supposed to be used for engagements over approx 800 meters anyway (so says internet).

In the end the SVD does not need to be ultra rare, it's not .50 cal nor some 1 hit kill monster.

 

Compared to M4 with Acog, the SVD should pack more punch, that much is obvious.

It might be even more precise than M4 over long ranges with less bullet drop.

 

Compared to Mosin + Long range scope, SVD wins again, as it is semi-auto and has mag for 10 rounds.

And maybe Mosin will stop accepting long range scope in the end, which would clearly make SVD far superior for longer engagements.

 

Reg. customisation, I would like to be able to put some rags on  for camo purposes , same as they supposedly plan for Mosin.

So all in all, I don't see problem with having realistic 4x PSO-1 scope on SVD, quite on contrary.

[Katana67 2907]

Well SVD should have PSO-1 and I don't see any reason it should not have realistic magnification of 4x.

As you can check yourself, SVD is not hi-tech sniper for long range engagements, it's more of Russian DMR hence it does not need custom hi magnification scope.

This rifle was not supposed to be used for engagements over approx 800 meters anyway (so says internet).

In the end the SVD does not need to be ultra rare, it's not .50 cal nor some 1 hit kill monster.

 

Compared to M4 with Acog, the SVD should pack more punch, that much is obvious.

It might be even more precise than M4 over long ranges with less bullet drop.

 

Compared to Mosin + Long range scope, SVD wins again, as it is semi-auto and has mag for 10 rounds.

And maybe Mosin will stop accepting long range scope in the end, which would clearly make SVD far superior for longer engagements.

 

Reg. customisation, I would like to be able to put some rags on  for camo purposes , same as they supposedly plan for Mosin.

So all in all, I don't see problem with having realistic 4x PSO-1 scope on SVD, quite on contrary.

 

First of all, I'm not saying that it should be... or is... or would be... on par with the Mosin or the M4A1. It is better, given that it hits harder than the M4A1. And that it has a few more rounds per magazine/clip. But I'm saying the advantages it offers aren't enough, in my opinion, to warrant it being included on the regulated loot list in the first place.

 

Second, an 8x scope isn't god's gift to man either. It just allows it to actually be a DMR.

 

Third, I'm not saying the SVD cannot mount both a PSO-1 and a POSP. No reason why it shouldn't.

[hombrecz 832]

But I'm saying the advantages it offers aren't enough, in my opinion, to warrant it being included on the regulated loot list in the first place.

 

Second, an 8x scope isn't god's gift to man either. It just allows it to actually be a DMR.

 

Third, I'm not saying the SVD cannot mount both a PSO-1 and a POSP. No reason why it shouldn't.

 

To judge anything, we first would need to know, how rare the SVD will be.

SVD should come with PSO-1 and maybe you could find rare POSP. Still, SVD will most likely be viable even with it's natural 4x PSO-1 scope.

Let's not forget SVD is not anything hi-tech or extra powerfull.

 

So hard to judge anything at this point.....

[Katana67 2907]

Let's not forget SVD is not anything hi-tech or extra powerfull...

 

I mean, most weapons aren't high-tech. They're kinetic machines that shoot bullets.

 

And for the purposes of DayZ, they're just lines of code that shoot coded bullets.

 

The SVD, inasmuch as DayZ can render, is no more or less "high-tech" or "powerful" than a Mk 17. It's all about what values are assigned to make it "powerful" or not.

[hombrecz 832]

I mean, most weapons aren't high-tech. They're kinetic machines that shoot bullets.

 

And for the purposes of DayZ, they're just lines of code that shoot coded bullets.

 

The SVD, inasmuch as DayZ can render, is no more or less "high-tech" or "powerful" than a Mk 17. It's all about what values are assigned to make it "powerful" or not.

 

So you would argue that SVD is same tech as M107 or say Lapua magnum with some fancy scope?

If that logic held true, why are new weapons constantly developer and armies gradualy rearmed?

Are we arguing for sake or arguing now?

 

SVD should be something like entry DMR, not end game ultra powerfull over 1Km headshoting machine, hence making it very rare makes zero sense.

Let's see how it plays out.

[Katana67 2907]

So you would argue that SVD is same tech as M107 or say Lapua magnum with some fancy scope?

If that logic held true, why are new weapons constantly developer and armies gradualy rearmed?

 

I'm saying that "technology" doesn't matter to DayZ. Because it's not a facet that's represented. So saying that the SVD is "low-tech" is irrelevant, because the "technology" of the SVD isn't displayed/represented in-game. It is a programmed item that shoots bullets in DayZ, not a machine.

 

A 4x scope could be a toilet paper roll with two lenses taped to each end. It still magnifies something 4x. Doesn't matter if it's a PSO-1, an Elcan SpecterDR, or the aforementioned toilet paper roll. The "technology" behind something is irrelevant if it leads to the same end. A Mk 11 with a ten round magazine would/could be exactly the same as an SVD in DayZ if it were deemed appropriate.

 

This is another area in which "realism" is inapplicable to DayZ. They aren't copy and pasting values from real life, they aren't rendering internal mechanisms to any extent other than animation's sake, they aren't dealing with the advantages that newer technology supposes. They aren't taking a weapon in real life and rendering it with 100% accuracy (no game has done this to my knowledge).

 

They're creating a programmed stand-in for a weapon which is aesthetically similar to a weapon you and I know from the real world. That's all.

 

Hence why I am dismissive when someone like Gibonez just sits there and posts ballistic values of some not-that-interesting hunting caliber and says that "The Mosin isn't that accurate" or somesuch. Okay, cool, but so what? How does it relate to DayZ? Those values aren't applicable to DayZ because it's real-world data, which (if precedent is to be followed) has little to no relevance to DayZ.

 

It would be like (as the example I've used before) if I posted an anatomical dissection of a deer/elk and said, "Well, deer/elk have heart, lungs, and kidneys, why don't they have this in DayZ?"

 

Simply put, the weapon you and I know in the real world and the weapon as rendered in DayZ will always be two separate entities.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

Simply put, the weapon you and I know in the real world and the weapon as rendered in DayZ will always be two separate entities.

 

True, game and reality are two separate experiences and so far, no game depicted reality 100% (maybe with VR in future).

Still it makes sense and is beneficial for the game, when guns in game atleast try to mimick some of their real life values and hierarchy.

Hence SVD would be entry level DMR, with just 4x zoom optics, but not so rare. Ofc some modern gun would sit higher in hierarchy and be considerably more rare, FN Scar-H PR for example. Players definitely like to upgrade their guns, but you know all of that.

 

To put your logic to an extreme, guns ingame could shoot rainbows and we should not care?

Why are you advocating total separation from reality? Is it really so beneficial for gameplay? From my POV it surely ain't and yes, I'm aware devs can't code guns to behave 100% like in reality, but I believe they should try and do it as much as possible (to a point).

 

It might be also counter-productive, when ingame weapons are detached from their real life counterparts too much.

Many players have atleast rough idea of what particular gun should be capable of, like SVD being good for engagements up to like 800m, and if you drastically change this, it gets more confusing than having more and realistic weapon calibers.

 

Simply put I don't see merit in reinventing the reality too drastically, when modeling guns into the game.

I'm for doing it as much as game engine allows. DayZ SA was never marketed as casual FPS game, Rocket himself said 100x times SA should be kind of antigame and for me that means sticking with realism and making things harder (proper gun calibers, complex shooting mechanics, diseases, fatigue, dangerous and numerous zombies etc).

 

Btw if I were medieval warchief, I would employ you as naysmith of mine  :thumbsup:

Edited July 21, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

To put your logic to an extreme, guns ingame could shoot rainbows and we should not care?

Why are you advocating total separation from reality?

 

I'm not, I'm saying that we can't say that weapon X has quality Y in real life, therefore, it should/will/needs to have quality Y in DayZ. Because they're two separate entities. One exists in the real world, and one exists in DayZ. They might be named the same thing, and look the same, but that's where the similarities end.

 

We have to weigh quality Y separately from the weapon it's supposedly going to be representing, and say to ourselves, "How does this factor into gameplay?"

 

What makes the SVD (for example) a firearm, isn't (and can't really be) represented in DayZ. It's just code. So when you bring up "technology," it's not applicable to DayZ, because the real-world "technology" of the SVD is merely being approximated by configuration values and lines of code in-game. And therefore can assume arbitrary or dissimilar values. It can also acquire similar values, but ultimately it's still an emulation... not a reproduction.

 

What would distinguish an M98B from a Mosin-Nagant in DayZ? It certainly wouldn't be the way the powder burns. It certainly wouldn't be the accurized barrels. It certainly wouldn't be the metallurgical makeup of the bolt. It certainly wouldn't be the weight of the bullet. Because these things are insanely unlikely to be represented in DayZ, and are approximated by different generalized values. All of which would fall into the category of "technology."

 

It certainly will be things like damage modifiers, effective range values, availability of optics, recoil, rarity, etc.

 

Which is what we need to be focusing on, tangibles.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

 

What makes the SVD (for example) a firearm, isn't (and can't really be) represented in DayZ. It's just code. So when you bring up "technology," it's not applicable to DayZ, because the real-world "technology" of the SVD is merely being approximated by configuration values and lines of code in-game. And therefore can assume arbitrary or dissimilar values. It can also acquire similar values, but ultimately it's still an emulation... not a reproduction.

 

What would distinguish an M98B from a Mosin-Nagant in DayZ? It certainly wouldn't be the way the powder burns. It certainly wouldn't be the accurized barrels. It certainly wouldn't be the metallurgical makeup of the bolt. It certainly wouldn't be the weight of the bullet. Because these things are insanely unlikely to be represented in DayZ, and are approximated by different generalized values. All of which would fall into the category of "technology."

 

What I ment by technology was how to ascertain, which weapon should be better. Better technology leads to better weapons, we can clearly see that when you compare rifles from US civil war with what we have today. But if expression "technology" irks you somehow, we can omit it and just use some internet analysis of real weapons. This info can be well used to model ingame weapon attributes after. No need to model realistic barel threading or such, I though that as obvious.

 

Surely we can agree, that M98B is superior than Mosin and everybody expects it to be more accurate, have further range, be more powerfull and also more rare. All of these expectations are based on real attributes of this weapon, no need to impose fictional ones.

Making Mosin a better rifle, for some artificial game purposes, would be both against reality as well gameplay expectations thus hurting the game.

 

As you said:"Which is what we need to be focusing on, tangibles.".

I fully agree on that and those tangibles should be based on reality as much as game engine allows, which in turn will mean technologicaly advanced weapons to be better in some regards no matter if its range, accuracy, rate of fire, power of projectile and that is what I've ment by using this term  :).

 

I really don't see any merit in not taking real guns attributes as a base, when modeling them in the game.

I never said they must model every single attribute there is, only what engine allows.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Hombre