.380 ACP Coming To DayZ! [Torchia Reddit]

[gibonez 3633]

Btw, how it is that when you shoot and hit sprinting player he don't trip and fall to the ground?

 

How about adding stopping power to ammo? :D

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/189882-incapacitation-kinectic-knockdown-discussion/

 

combined with the eventual ragdoll

 

Edited June 28, 2014 by gibonez

[hombrecz 832]

Nice that Scubaman has spoken although I can't say I agree 100% with him.

Does nobody else remembers Rocket saying that DayZ SA will be antigame?

 

How come that now the term "casual" player is being flung all over the place?

Extremely casual players, that have like 1-2 hour per day to play, should really avoid DayZ SA, or be disappointed.

 

Pretty please do not turn DayZ SA in 100% casual friendly game, it will ruin it.

 

Btw also surprising thing is, that when casual player is now to be pampered, how come that Devs even contemplate adding of robust disease system to the game?

I mean how confusing is few more calibers, when weapons have frikkin info saying what caliber they use, compared to robust infection system, where you can contract various diseases from various sources (food, water, contact with infected people or items etc).

 

Can anybody envision how confusing this robust disease system might be for "casual Joe" that has just an hour to play?

Once he contracts something, he will most likely jump off the cliff to start fresh O_o.

[Daemonkid 493]

-Snip-

 

Shhhhhhhh. No logic. 

Only tears and flames.

[Deathlove 2286]

Nice that Scubaman has spoken although I can't say I agree 100% with him.

Does nobody else remembers Rocket saying that DayZ SA will be antigame?

 

How come that now the term "casual" player is being flung all over the place?

Extremely casual players, that have like 1-2 hour per day to play, should really avoid DayZ SA, or be disappointed.

 

Pretty please do not turn DayZ SA in 100% casual friendly game, it will ruin it.

 

Btw also surprising thing is, that when casual player is now to be pampered, how come that Devs even contemplate adding of robust disease system to the game?

I mean how confusing is few more calibers, when weapons have frikkin info saying what caliber they use, compared to robust infection system, where you can contract various diseases from various sources (food, water, contact with infected people or items etc).

 

Can anybody envision how confusing this robust disease system might be for "casual Joe" that has just an hour to play?

Once he contracts something, he will most likely jump off the cliff to start fresh O_o.

Dude im casual and even I LOVE some hard core experiences. Something greatly lacking with allot of games now a days since the passing of old NES and SEGA games.

[gibonez 3633]

When I was listing iconic firearms in .380 acp in the 20th century I nearly forgot the single most iconic and important gun.

 

The gun that caused a world war.

 

 

Model 1910 that today 100 years ago a model 1910 was used to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand and start off ww1.

 

Nice that Scubaman has spoken although I can't say I agree 100% with him.

Does nobody else remembers Rocket saying that DayZ SA will be antigame?

 

How come that now the term "casual" player is being flung all over the place?

Extremely casual players, that have like 1-2 hour per day to play, should really avoid DayZ SA, or be disappointed.

 

Pretty please do not turn DayZ SA in 100% casual friendly game, it will ruin it.

 

Btw also surprising thing is, that when casual player is now to be pampered, how come that Devs even contemplate adding of robust disease system to the game?

I mean how confusing is few more calibers, when weapons have frikkin info saying what caliber they use, compared to robust infection system, where you can contract various diseases from various sources (food, water, contact with infected people or items etc).

 

Can anybody envision how confusing this robust disease system might be for "casual Joe" that has just an hour to play?

Once he contracts something, he will most likely jump off the cliff to start fresh O_o.

 

Catering towards the casuals is imo not a good thing.

 

They serverely underestimate the casuals ability to understand and learn to adapt to a few gun calibers.

 

What worries me about this stance is what hope does this give for complicated gameplay mechanics. If they are so afraid of adding realistic calibers in merely because of the though scaring casuals what hope is there for

 

• Realistic medical system
• Advanced angular measurement elevation adjustments
• Stamina/ weight based movement system

 

It just confuses me how there seems to be a splt direction in the game some things are awesomely complex and deep like the blood types, cooking and food and thirst system. Yet others will be seemingly ultra simple.

 

Like I said earlier the game has sold 2 million on Early access a pretty obscure and strange new concept on steam why even bother with catering or trying to avoid casuals.

 

If they were casual gamers they probably would not be playing Dayz to begin with you have to be a certain type of hardcore to play dayz and making the game easier to grasp only seems to hurt the already established player base no ?

 

Alienating the already very much robust player base that comes from Years and Years of loyalty towards Bohemia Interactive and the Arma series some of us Since operation flashpoint only because you want to perhaps not scare off the handful of casual gamers who might jump in ?

Edited June 28, 2014 by gibonez

[Deathlove 2286]

When I was listing iconic firearms in .380 acp in the 20th century I nearly forgot the single most iconic and important gun.

 

The gun that caused a world war.

 

 

Model 1910 that today 100 years ago a model 1910 was used to kill Archduke Franz Ferdinand and start off ww1.

 

 

Catering towards the casuals is imo not a good thing.

 

They serverely underestimate the casuals ability to understand and learn to adapt to a few gun calibers.

 

What worries me about this stance is what hope does this give for complicated gameplay mechanics. If they are so afraid of adding realistic calibers in merely because of the though scaring casuals what hope is there for

 

• Realistic medical system
• Advanced angular measurement elevation adjustments
• Stamina/ weight based movement system

 

It just confuses me how there seems to be a splt direction in the game some things are awesomely complex and deep like the blood types, cooking and food and thirst system. Yet others will be seemingly ultra simple.

 

Like I said earlier the game has sold 2 million on Early access a pretty obscure and strange new concept on steam why even bother with catering or trying to avoid casuals.

 

If they were casual gamers they probably would not be playing Dayz to begin with you have to be a certain type of hardcore to play dayz and making the game easier to grasp only seems to hurt the already established player base no ?

 

Alienating the already very much robust player base that comes from Years and Years of loyalty towards Bohemia Interactive and the Arma series some of us Since operation flashpoint only because you want to perhaps not scare off the handful of casual gamers who might jump in ?

I actually did a report of that Duke in middle school i think. XD

 

But thats actually a rather nice looking gun.

[Daemonkid 493]

 

 

Alienating the already very much robust player base that comes from Years and Years of loyalty towards Bohemia Interactive and the Arma series some of us Since operation flashpoint only because you want to perhaps not scare off the handful of casual gamers who might jump in ?

The way I see it. Why cater to casuals at all? They already made triple what they expected to make. They already have our money, why cater to the lowest common denominator and instead stick to their guns and what makes DayZ.  It's not like they need to sell more copies. Streamlining and dumbing down the game removes the core audience and all we'll have left is a once awesome game devolve into what WoW has become.

 

A casual easymode shit fest. 

 

-Edit. I could be considered casual. I have 291 hours of DayZ played. But this is in large chunks of play time (4-5 hours at a time usually)

But I don't want the game made easier, I want it harder. I want more varied cartridges, indepth medical simulation ect.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Daemonkid

[Katana67 2907]

A casual easymode shit fest. 

 

Well, "they failed us" indictments and vitriol fueled disgust with the developers aside...

 

Including a few more calibers is a way to both enhance gameplay and shut the realism humpers up by giving them what they want.

 

So I'm all for it.

[Daemonkid 493]

Well, "they failed us" indictments and vitriol fueled disgust with the developers aside...

 

Including a few more calibers is a way to both enhance gameplay and shut the realism humpers up by giving them what they want.

 

So I'm all for it.

The easymode casual shit fest was directed at WoW. 

I still have hope they will deliver on their promises. But they are not providing me much fuel to keep that fire going though.

[Katana67 2907]

Just a general FYI:

 

We're not against adding more calibers but the team feels strongly we should avoid confusion of casual players.  This means we can achieve the same effect on gameplay that dilution of the ammo pool would accomplish without adding in more 7.62s, and more 9mm's.  380Auto has performance characteristics more similar to the 9mmM than 9mmP but has several advantages 1) avoids confusion 2) allow for the addition of many iconic firearms such as Makarov, RAK, PPK, MAC10, Scorpion 3) sets a precedent which might allow us to do the same with 7.62 (think .308 Win instead of 7.62x51).  

 

The only issue that I have with the "confusion" bit is that it really isn't all that confusing. If the success of the mod proves anything, it's that folks can handle a diverse, unforgiving, and perhaps even cumbersome ammunition-weapon relationship.

 

Casuals, whoever they are, aren't idiots. They'll play the game you make, and use the ammunition you include, regardless of whether it's complex or streamlined. They're indifferent. In other words, you don't have to do anything special for them. They're just happy to be given a game with the DayZ logo on it.

 

A cartridge either works in your weapon, or it doesn't.

 

I don't really care about 9x18M or even 5.45x39, I think we have enough pistol rounds for now and I can live with 7.62x39/5.56x45 being the intermediate cartridges.

 

But the 7.62x51/54R situation is more pressing to a wide variety of weapons, which are almost exclusively relying on 7.62x51 (or just generally, one particular round). The ubiquity of 7.62x51 needs to be divided up in order to better suit the wide variety of weapons it's now forced to cover. And again, I don't mind that certain things are "unrealistic" at all.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

I still think 54r and 5.45x39 are absolutely vital to the game.

 

I hope we see them eventually the 54r would become feasible once the SVD is introduced and the 5.45x39 if they ever introduce the ak74 they had been working on in the past.

 

 

I can understand if there was some kind of technical limitation restricting the number of ammo calibers then sure no problem streamline it I suppose.

However simply restricting it because of  a possible fear that casual players might get confused for 2 seconds is kinda alarming.

Although I find making any concessions due to casuals alarming.

[scubaman3d 680]

Well, "they failed us" indictments and vitriol fueled disgust with the developers aside...

 

Including a few more calibers is a way to both enhance gameplay and shut the realism humpers up by giving them what they want.

 

So I'm all for it.

You're exactly right - IMO that's precisely what we've done - we added a new, real life caliber, enhancing gameplay.  People don't have to 100% agree with the rationale or the particular selected caliber. It was a comprimise so by definition, it means neither side got exactly what it wanted. Its massively pedantic at this point to say this somehow caters to the COD crowd and its gamey or whatever other nonsense.   

 

We added a real world caliber to go with real world weapons we just didn't pick the specific caliber some people wanted. To me that's a matter of simple preference, rather than principle. 

 

For those still harping on the 7.62 issue edit, I meant this:

 

 3) sets a precedent which might allow us to do the same with 7.62 (think .308 Win instead of 7.62x51).  

 

[Deathlove 2286]

IMO that's precisely what we've done - we added a new, real life caliber, enhancing gameplay.  People don't have to 100% agree with the rationale or the particular selected caliber. It was a comprimise so by definition, it means neither side got exactly what it wanted. Its massively pedantic at this point to say this somehow caters to the COD crowd and its gamey or whatever other nonsense.   

 

We added a real world caliber to go with real world weapons we just didn't pick the specific caliber some people wanted. To me that's a matter of simple preference, rather than principle. 

 

For those still harping on the 7.62 issue, reread my last post here:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/201280-380-acp-coming-to-dayz-torchia-reddit/page-4#entry2024691

I am quite interested in seeing what you guys can come up with latter on down the line with the new caliber particularly none handgun and even crafted weapons.

[Katana67 2907]

IMO that's precisely what we've done - we added a new, real life caliber, enhancing gameplay.  People don't have to 100% agree with the rationale or the particular selected caliber. It was a comprimise so by definition, it means neither side got exactly what it wanted. Its massively pedantic at this point to say this somehow caters to the COD crowd and its gamey or whatever other nonsense.   

 

We added a real world caliber to go with real world weapons we just didn't pick the specific caliber some people wanted. To me that's a matter of simple preference, rather than principle. 

 

For those still harping on the 7.62 issue, reread my last post here:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/201280-380-acp-coming-to-dayz-torchia-reddit/page-4#entry2024691

 

I know! I wasn't the one saying that, I think it's a good compromise (and favor compromise).

 

I don't particularly care for .380 ACP, and think there are other areas which need the inclusion of a caliber, but I welcome it. I'm non-discriminatory. :D

 

However, I still maintain that 7.62x51 needs to be de-amalgamated for the purposes of accommodating the large swath of weapons it's now, and ostensibly will be, covering. I don't think it's overly confusing to have more than two 7.62 rounds.

 

It only really could sound confusing when they're all named similarly, like 7.62x39, 7.62x51, 7.62x54R. The fact that there's three different rounds though, is not confusing. So perhaps it's just a matter of naming them right/differently to avoid potential confusion.

 

Hell, if it makes it more apparent, you could just go with the .308 Winchester (or other caliber) to accommodate the "low-end" hunting rifles and leave 7.62x51 alone. I'd rather have 54R to make the use of Warsaw Pact weapons separate from that of their NATO counterparts. But, if push came to shove, I suppose I'd rather have a dedicated "hunting rifle" cartridge than anything.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Katana67 2907]

For the sake of argument, perhaps just naming the rounds in a more distinct manner could address the "confusion" issue.

 

7.62 NATO

 

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"The 7.62x51 NATO round is a high-powered cartridge used primarily in weapons of Western origin"

 

 

7.62 Rimmed

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x54R, an older high-powered rifle cartridge commonly used in weapons of Soviet origin"

 

 

7.62 AK

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x39, an intermediate rifle cartridge, most commonly used in AK-derivative weapons"

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

For the sake of argument, perhaps just naming the rounds in a more distinct manner could address the "confusion" issue.

 

7.62 NATO

 

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"The 7.62x51 NATO round is a high-powered cartridge used primarily in weapons of Western origin"

 

 

7.62 Rimmed

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x54R, an older high-powered rifle cartridge commonly used in weapons of Soviet origin"

 

 

7.62 AK

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x39, an intermediate rifle cartridge, most commonly used in AK-derivative weapons"

 

Seems like the perfect solution.

[Sutinen 635]

Wow, 5.56 AK-74's and 4 different pistol calibers? Makes sense.

[Katana67 2907]

Quick, staring contest... you and me... now!

 

AK-74M (5.45x39)

 

 

AK-101 (5.56x45)

 

 

DID YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!?!

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Wow, 5.56 AK-74's and 4 different pistol calibers? Makes sense.

 

Yea they would just rename it .

 

Fictional setting and all so I suppose they could just do that. :/

[Chaingunfighter 917]

For the sake of argument, perhaps just naming the rounds in a more distinct manner could address the "confusion" issue.

 

7.62 NATO

 

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"The 7.62x51 NATO round is a high-powered cartridge used primarily in weapons of Western origin"

 

 

7.62 Rimmed

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x54R, an older high-powered rifle cartridge commonly used in weapons of Soviet origin"

 

 

7.62 AK

 

 

In-game description upon inspection...

 

"7.62x39, an intermediate rifle cartridge, most commonly used in AK-derivative weapons"

To separate them, they could re-color the 7.62x54mmR ammunition to a bronze/brass mixed color while leaving the 7.62x39mm as the steel-gray casing and 7.62x51mm as the pure-brass color.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

You're exactly right - IMO that's precisely what we've done - we added a new, real life caliber, enhancing gameplay.  People don't have to 100% agree with the rationale or the particular selected caliber. It was a comprimise so by definition, it means neither side got exactly what it wanted. Its massively pedantic at this point to say this somehow caters to the COD crowd and its gamey or whatever other nonsense.   

 

We added a real world caliber to go with real world weapons we just didn't pick the specific caliber some people wanted. To me that's a matter of simple preference, rather than principle. 

 

For those still harping on the 7.62 issue edit, I meant this:

Design the bullet off of that 7.62x54mmR, and do what Katana67 suggested; call it "Rimmed", or  something like that. If people are still getting confused at that point, all of the blame goes on them. It'd be pretty easy to differentiate, unlike something around "9x19mm" and "9x18mm", which look the same if you don't look close enough or read over it too quickly.

 

Edit: Apparently the forum decided to post this as another post instead of adding it as an edit to my previous post.... Ugh.

 

 

 

I still think 54r and 5.45x39 are absolutely vital to the game.

 

I hope we see them eventually the 54r would become feasible once the SVD is introduced and the 5.45x39 if they ever introduce the ak74 they had been working on in the past.

 

 

I can understand if there was some kind of technical limitation restricting the number of ammo calibers then sure no problem streamline it I suppose.

However simply restricting it because of  a possible fear that casual players might get confused for 2 seconds is kinda alarming.

Although I find making any concessions due to casuals alarming.

 

Honestly, I think we can live without 5.45x39mm. It's somewhat difficult to suggest not adding the AK-74M, especially considering they already made a model for it and everything, but it definitely would not be necessary. For the sake of limiting calibers, it's probably something that isn't needed. There aren't a whole lot of 5.45x39mm guns (it's hardly used in any civilian weapons), and almost every 5.45x39mm gun has a variant in 7.62x39mm. AKS-74U? AKMSU. AK-74M? AK-103/104. RPK-74? RPK-47 and RPD.

If you really wanted to get into the semantics of things, you could simply

Add wooden furniture attachments to an AK-100 rifle. There, now you have your AK-74.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Sutinen 635]

Quick, staring contest... you and me... now!

 

AK-74M (5.45x39)

 

 

AK-101 (5.56x45)

 

 

DID YOU SEE WHAT I DID THERE?!?!

I know most new SA players don't give a fuck about realism and will probably agree with you 100%, so please I don't need to get bombarded by these posts. I'm not trying to tell you to change your opinion either, ofc I can't see any difference other than the mag release and the magazine's curve.

In my opinion even the smallest ballistic changes matter in a survival sim and I don't see anything bad about adding 5.45x39 to the military tents and making 5.56x45 rarer or exclusive to helicopter crashes.

On top of that I feel like you're fucking with me by adding a huge black text asking me what's the difference between the guns, so apologize please and don't start a fight on the forums

Edited June 28, 2014 by Sutinen

[Katana67 2907]

To separate them, they could re-color the 7.62x54mmR ammunition to a bronze/brass mixed color while leaving the 7.62x39mm as the steel-gray casing and 7.62x51mm as the pure-brass color.

 

Agreed, I just had to re-use the image.

 

I know most new SA players don't give a fuck about realism and will probably agree with you 100%, so please I don't need to get bombarded by these posts. I'm not trying to tell you to change your opinion either, ofc I can't see any difference other than the mag release and the magazine's curve.

In my opinion even the smallest ballistic changes matter in a survival sim and I don't see anything bad about adding 5.45x39 to the military tents and making 5.56x45 rarer or exclusive to helicopter crashes.

On top of that I feel like you're fucking with me by adding a huge black text asking me what's the difference between the guns, so apologize please and don't start a fight on the forums

 

Or you could take a joke. I purposefully mislabeled them, the top is an AK-101 and the bottom is an AK-74M.

 

I apologize for nothing, other than being reasonable in proposing a compromise.

 

I don't need to get bombarded by folks who exalt realism above all else without thought, and then indict the developers as if they're being let down categorically because DayZ's worth is somehow only measured by the degree to which it represents weapons "realistically."

 

But I do. And I'm still here.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I know most new SA players don't give a fuck about realism and will probably agree with you 100%, so please I don't need to get bombarded by these posts. I'm not trying to tell you to change your opinion either, ofc I can't see any difference other than the mag release and the magazine's curve.

In my opinion even the smallest ballistic changes matter in a survival sim and I don't see anything bad about adding 5.45x39 to the military tents and making 5.56x45 rarer or exclusive to helicopter crashes.

On top of that I feel like you're fucking with me by adding a huge black text asking me what's the difference between the guns, so apologize please and don't start a fight on the forums

He wasn't responding directly to you, as far as I'm aware. There are direct quotations for that, as you know. wrong.

 

It's common knowledge that there are a good number of people on the forums who would love to have every caliber imaginable, but the devs have already said that they're not going to do that. So now we are trying to make compromises so we can still get some semblance of what we'd like to be in the game. Fighting back and just yelling: "NO 545x39 SHOULD BE IN THE GAME" isn't going to further our argument at this point. Maybe at a future time they'll reconsider, but it's not worth it to try and assume so.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[gibonez 3633]

I agree with making a 54r variant that is steel cased it would pretty easy to distinguish the rounds visually.

 

 

There aren't a whole lot of 5.45x39mm guns (it's hardly used in any civilian weapons), and almost every 5.45x39mm gun has a variant in 7.62x39mm. AKS-74U? AKMSU. AK-74M? AK-103/104. RPK-74? RPK-47 and RPD.

 

 

It is hardly used in any western civilian weapons and how is this a bad thing ?

 

in fact why even put a preference on 5.45x45 over 5.45 ?

Edited June 28, 2014 by gibonez