The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[Time Glitch 453]

PREFACE (Apparently this is necessary)

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I am NOT calling for the removal of PvP. I simply want to see there be some INCENTIVE for being friendly, while simultaneously maintaining the goal of the mod: A hardcore zombie apocalypse survival simulator. Bandits are a part of this game, and they should ALWAYS be a part of this game.

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I think we can all agree that there is simply too much murder right now. There's no incentive not to kill. We've tried bandit skins, getting rid of global chat...All of these are very gamey solutions. And none of them have worked.

Here's what I'm proposing, Rocket and team. Rather than come up with some mechanic to help out one side or the other, or do some kind of balancing act...Do something different. The reason we don't work together is because we can survive alone. The reason we shoot on sight is because we have nothing to gain from teaming up.

So let's set the world on fire. Let's watch it burn. Let us feel fear; That same fear we all felt when our boots first landed on the shores of Chernarus.

Let's Make DayZ a Living Nightmare.

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You already start with next to nothing. Good. That sets the table. Canned Food is scarce. Canteens are as precious as gold.Weapons are a luxury, and ammo doesn't last long. Finding the tools you need to start a fire and cook a meal? Good luck. And if you don't find food or water, both of which are incredibly scarce? Enjoy dehydration, or starvation. You won't just die from some ticking blood bar. Your vision will blur, you'll be tortured by the sounds of your stomach aching for food. You'll barely be able to keep crawling forward. You'll pass out from exhaustion, and die curled up on the ground, without so much as a whimper.

The Zeds are more numerous. They prowl the streets of cities in packs, and must be avoided if you hope to survive. The Zombies have begun to migrate to forests, and herds of them roam the countryside. Nowhere is safe from the infected, and their numbers continue to grow. Areas that have been densely populated with infected for a long period of time are now more difficult to breathe in. Death stinks the air, and if you spend too much time there, you might get sick. You'll cough if you don't have a surgical mask, or at least a scarf to wrap around your nose and mouth.

And what of your injuries? That scratch could get infected if left untreated. You'll need sterilization materials, such as rubbing alcohol or peroxide. That last bout with the Infected didn't break your leg, but you sure as hell can't run on it. Maybe you got lucky and it hit your arm instead. Can't use your primary with only one good arm. Morphine isn't going to heal those broken bones of yours...Only give you the ability to walk on it for a period of time. And if you keep using Morphine? Well, you'll become addicted. Then you'll need it if you don't want the shakes, hallucinations, and sickness.

The environment is unforgiving and harsh. The coast is plagued with deep fogs, and ripping coastal winds that chill you to the bone. If you manage to make it off the coast, beware the sun. Running too long in the sun can cause heat stroke and exhaustion. If you take refuge in the mountains, be prepared for a drop in temperature, and cold wet nights. Further north, expect cloudy skies and torrential rain which chills you if left unchecked.

You're only one human being against a world that is designed to kill you. So how do you survive?

You MUST cooperate.

Maybe that scarce can of beans, or that canteen of water, can satiate 2 people rather than one. Maybe a pair of eyes covering your six increases your chances of survival when scavenging in an infested city. Maybe when you can't walk on your leg, a friend could take you on their shoulder so you can walk again. Maybe someone could set and splint that broken leg of yours. Maybe someone can bring that fever down by tending to you while you're sick and unable to take care of yourself. Maybe being within close proximity to others makes you share body heat when the temperature drops. Maybe that other person has the matches, and you've got the hatchet.

Maybe, when the world is a living hell...Other people are your only hope to survive.

It's just a thought...But I think it's the only way to keep DayZ from becoming Deathmatch + Zombies.

P.S. Might I remind everyone that this is ALPHA, and this is exactly the time when we should be trying insane, crazy stuff like this. You don't get that chance when a game is released, or even in Beta stage. We should be doing this NOW, just to see how it works.

Edit: Perfect description as to why bandits should love these changes...Written by a bandit:

Love your ideas' date=' and these are things bandits should support as well. I don't think this would encroach on pvp as much as some of you think it will. It'll just make it more meaningful which is just as important to scumbag bandits like myself. Right now killing feels cheap and meaningless, it's like a quick hit that's over way too quickly and has no greater impact. Bunch of lonewolves running around trying to get the drop on other lonewolves. If people are grouping up it's cause they're usually friends on voip and do it to have fun, not because they actually need each other. If one drops, oh well just run up from the coast and meet up and go loot/kill some more.

But imagine you snipe the medic on a supply teams group. They can't survive properly without their medic, and there's no way he can come back from the coastal spawn without major assistance because of all the roaming zombie packs.

Sure you could have joined the group and had an easier time in the game. But you decide to stick to your bandit ways and kill others anyways. That's a meaningful kill cause you've murdered not just a bag of loot but a human being that could have made your life easier.

Or you've found a fortified settlement and realize killing everyone would be stupid since they're continually bringing in new supplies, which you feel obligated to take. So instead of sitting up on a hill and killing everyone with a sniper rifle, you decide to start stalking small groups or solo runners. You easily dispatch them for their supplies that you can live off of. But eventually the settlement starts sending out teams to flush you out. Luckily you know the surrounding forests well and how to hide from humans and zombies. Crawling around in the rain, in the dark, in the mud cause that's how a true bandit should live. Not like you pansies that think loading up a dmr and sitting around elektro all day for lulz makes you a bandit.

- Medical situations can seriously make this game much more cooperative. Have situations where you need to carry/vehicle someone back to a medical tent at a base.

- Have more medical events that require a second or multiple people.

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- Limit the amount of tools you can carry to like 3.

[/quote']

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A mod has requested I form a list of proposed features so this can be moved to the suggestion forum:

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- High-End Military-Grade Loot increased rarity. This should only be for the very dedicated/lucky. ONLY spawns in Military Areas.

- CZ550 replaces most Sniper Rifle spawns.

- AKM and AK-74 more likely rifle spawns than M4.

- Deer Stands no longer spawn military weapons, only ammo.

- Small chance of AKM/AK-74 to spawn in Residential areas.

- All Basic Survival Consumables spawn less often (Food, Canteens, Soda, Etc.)

- All Basic Survival Consumables can now be shared between two players for full effect.

- Hunger goes down slower, but leads to Starvation when blinking. Starvation causes quicker loss of stamina, growling sound, and eventually the shakes, inability to run, passing out, and death.

- Thirst remains at the same rate, but leads to Dehydration when blinking. Dehydration causes loss of speed, blurred vision, and eventually the inability to sprint coupled with passing out. Hallucinations as a warning before death.

- Zed count increased.

- Zeds can hear gunshots from further away. However, rather than immediately locking on, they will simply investigate the noise if the player is out of their line of sight.

- If many zed are in an area, they form a pack and begin roaming further than their default AI patrol path. These have the ability to leave cities.

- Packs are more common in cities.

- Zeds spawn more in the outskirts of cities ("Wandering").

- Chance of zeds spawning in the wilderness. Chance of zed packs spawning in the wilderness as well.

- Areas where Zed have been present for long periods of time (Parts of cities) have a chance to begin to become hazardous. Players must either find Scarves or Surgical Masks to help prevent infection from these areas. They will cough loudly if they do not have either of these items.

- It's a no-brainer that other players are more helpful around more Zed.

- Injury system expanded. Players can now get scratches from infected that can cause sickness if left untreated.

- Scratches varry in intensity from a minor fleshwound (Requires bandage, does not bleed) to huge gashes (Loss of limb function, bleeds and requires bandage).

- Players can wash their wounds with water, or cleanse them with rubbing alcohol or peroxide (Both of which can be found in Residential loot). Peroxide or Alcohol completely cleans wound, where water still has a chance of infection.

- Serious gashes can cause a limb to lose function until the wound heals. Limping on a leg, or unable to use a primary weapon due to an injured arm are possible scenarios.

- The only way to break bones will be severe Zed injury (Multiple Zeds Multiple Times), or falling.

- Broken bones cannot be mended without a splint. Splints are wood and bandages.

- You can set the bones yourself, but you risk permanent damage to the limb (Decreased speed for legs, Less accuracy for arms). Another player can set your broken bones with no risk of permanent injury.

- You can set the bones without Morphine, but you risk passing out for a long time from the pain instead (The bone is not set properly). Painkillers will allow you to set a bone, but with blurred vision for a time, and a loud cry is let out.

- Once a splint is in place, the limb must mend for a full day of game time. You can limp on a leg, and can only use a primary for an arm. If Painkillers are taken, you can limp faster.

- If you take 2 doses of Morphine, you can limp on a broken leg. Continued use will enable you to keep limping, but you run the risk of overdose.

- Another player can help you walk, "Fireman" style. Using this, you can limp considerably faster on injured, broken, or splinted legs. You can both use secondary weapons during this.

- Antibiotic spawns increased, still only in hospitals.

- Infections come in different varieties: Cold, Flu, and Injury Infections.

- Cold contracted from low body temperature. Causes coughing, decrease in stamina, possible fever if conditions do not improve. The body will recover, slowly, if given enough rest.

- Flu can only be contracted in hazardous areas. It causes vomiting, leading to the shakes and dehydration. It has a high chance of fever, and can lead to death if fluids and food are not maintained.

- Injury Infections are the result of untreated wounds. These lead to shaking, loss of limb function, 100% chance of fever, and eventually death. The only cure for this is antibiotics.

- Fever causes loss of ability to jog/run/sprint, shakes, dehydration, passing out, and if disease is not cured, death.

- The healing process can be accelerated by other players. They can tend to your fever with a damp cloth, provide you with body heat if you have a cold, and keep you fed/hydrated when you're passed out. (They can also go out and get medicine!)

- While not diseases, Overheating and Heat Stroke are introduced. Overheating occurs while running in the sun for too long. This causes accelerated thirst consumption, and slightly blurred vision. Taking a break, then running in the shade will prevent this.

- If the player continues to run for too long without brief breaks (We're talking 10 seconds every 10 minutes kind of thing, no big deal), they will exhaust themselves, leaving themselves open to Heat Stroke if it's daytime (Excluding Sunrise and Sunset). They could potentially pass out for a VERY long time due to Heat Stroke if they do not take breaks.

- Players can walk during the day to receive no negative effects. This means players without water can still travel in the heat of the day without having to worry about Heat Stroke.

- Different regions and time of day in those regions now have different effects within the environment.

- The coast has deep fog in the morning and at night. During the day, whipping winds cause wind chill to those out in the open.

- Open plains during the heat of the day are very hot can cause exhaustion in players much quicker.

- Mountains are damp and misty in the mornings, causing temperature to drop.

- Forested areas are more prone to rain. This is even more so on forested mountains.

- Rain does not chill the player immediately, but if the player does not find heat or shelter soon, they will become soaked and their body temperature will drop, causing mild shivering. This takes longer during the day.

- Heavy Rain will accelerate the chilling process, and also make players unable to build fires in the open. They must find shelter or a dense forest to light a fire in. Heavy Rain will also give a light fog to the area, making it harder to see. Heavy Rain is more common in forests and forested mountains.

- Night will accelerate temperature-dropping effects.

- Being near another player will cause you to "share body heat". This will decelerate the temperature drop greatly.

- Two players can contribute to a fire pit, causing a bigger and hotter fire.

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I FULLY realize that many if not most of these features will simply not be possible as DayZ is a MOD. However, my hope is that systems like these will be considered once DayZ becomes a stand-alone game...Which I have full confidence that it will.

(That was quite a lot of writing...Whoo...)

[Jonson (DayZ) 31]

Haters gonna hate.

But that man speaks the truth.

[aposky 20]

+1 on making DayZ more coop and survival game, less deathmatch.

Rocket mentioned that he improved code and more infected can be spawned on a server - good. But supplies, weapons/ammo are way too common and easy to loot.

As I mentioned somewhere else, you can fully equip yourself in less than 30 minutes after respawn to fully survive in game, and 50 minutes to start a regular war with high class military equipment.

[Time Glitch 453]

Haters gonna hate.

But that man speaks the truth.

Thanks, man.

I would look forward to the challenge, though most will probably say "Then everyone will be even MORE desperate!" The trick though, is that in this scenario, asking for help will be more beneficial than taking their items. The idea here is to give players more power than their items.

I think that if this kind of change were to be made, it should all be unleashed in one big update...And everyone and everything gets wiped. Force everyone to live in fear and hopelessness again.

[kaylo 11]

fuck all of the shit you just said. I'm never gonna team up with some theater kid who'll probably end up killing me. making the mod harder by making the already broken zombie mechanics worse isnt gonna solve anything. you aren't going to get rid of the pvp in this mod so stop trying to

[Ducky (DayZ) 10]

I like this idea. The cynic in me says that making the world harsher, and requiring new items like rubbing alcohol, will push bandits more toward killing you to take your stuff. The harder it is to survive, the easier it is to decide you'll kill someone to stay alive.

Requiring teamwork isn't the same as preventing douchebaggery. It just means you'll get killed by three bandits instead of one. Tons of people play in groups, which is great because they know someone has their back. But if you wander up to them, they'll still shoot you because you are still a threat, whether or not they have rubbing alcohol.

Still, nice input. I personally think shifting the focus back on zombies is the way to eliminate all of the hate. I totally agree re: appearing in the woods. The game got a lot less terrifying when I realized I could hide in the hills until I got hungry.

[Time Glitch 453]

I like this idea. The cynic in me says that making the world harsher' date=' and requiring new items like rubbing alcohol, will push bandits more toward killing you to take your stuff. The harder it is to survive, the easier it is to decide you'll kill someone to stay alive.

Requiring teamwork isn't the same as preventing douchebaggery. It just means you'll get killed by three bandits instead of one. Tons of people play in groups, which is great because they know someone has their back. But if you wander up to them, they'll still shoot you because you are still a threat, whether or not they have rubbing alcohol.

Still, nice input. I personally think shifting the focus back on zombies is the way to eliminate all of the hate. I totally agree re: appearing in the woods. The game got a lot less terrifying when I realized I could hide in the hills until I got hungry.

[/quote']

I outlined this a bit in the OP, but what we need to do to prevent the lone wolves from killing one another is to make PLAYERS more powerful than their ITEMS. Make it so you can only do so much for yourself, and you must rely on other's actions to help you survive. The body heat and setting/splinting ideas are a start to that.

[tso 5]

Release hacks to everyone.

Instant hell.

[jukaga 271]

I think we need to eat too often as it is. Who ever heard of starving to death 8 hours or less after eating a can of beans? But I generally approve of most of your points.

[Time Glitch 453]

I think we need to eat too often as it is. Who ever heard of starving to death 8 hours or less after eating a can of beans? But I generally approve of most of your points.

Obviously some tweaks would need to be made to the current food/water system, as well as some others. This is not something to just be tacked on...This is a complete overhaul of what we know so far.

[davidcastle 19]

I think we can all agree that there is simply too much murder right now. There's no incentive not to kill. We've tried bandit skins' date=' getting rid of global chat...All of these are very gamey solutions. And none of them have worked.

Here's what I'm proposing, Rocket and team. Rather than come up with some mechanic to help out one side or the other, or do some kind of balancing act...Do something different. The reason we don't work together is because we can survive alone. The reason we shoot on sight is because we have nothing to gain from teaming up.

So let's set the world on fire. Let's watch it burn. Let us feel fear; That same fear we all felt when our boots first landed on the shores of Chernarus.

Let's Make DayZ a Living Nightmare.

-----------

You already start with next to nothing. Good. That sets the table. Canned Food is scarce. Canteens are as precious as gold.Weapons are a luxury, and ammo doesn't last long. Finding the tools you need to start a fire and cook a meal? Good luck. And if you don't find food or water, both of which are incredibly scarce? Enjoy dehydration, or starvation. You won't just die from some ticking blood bar. Your vision will blur, you'll be tortured by the sounds of your stomach aching for food. You'll barely be able to keep crawling forward. You'll pass out from exhaustion, and die curled up on the ground, without so much as a whimper.

The Zeds are more numerous. They prowl the streets of cities in packs, and must be avoided if you hope to survive. The Zombies have begun to migrate to forests, and herds of them roam the countryside. Nowhere is safe from the infected, and their numbers continue to grow. Areas that have been densely populated with infected for a long period of time are now more difficult to breathe in. Death stinks the air, and if you spend too much time there, you might get sick. You'll cough if you don't have a surgical mask, or at least a scarf to wrap around your nose and mouth.

And what of your injuries? That scratch could get infected if left untreated. You'll need sterilization materials, such as rubbing alcohol or peroxide. That last bout with the Infected didn't break your leg, but you sure as hell can't run on it. Maybe you got lucky and it hit your arm instead. Can't use your primary with only one good arm. Morphine isn't going to heal those broken bones of yours...Only give you the ability to walk on it for a period of time. And if you keep using Morphine? Well, you'll become addicted. Then you'll need it if you don't want the shakes, hallucinations, and sickness.

The environment is unforgiving and harsh. The coast is plagued with deep fogs, and ripping coastal winds that chill you to the bone. If you manage to make it off the coast, beware the sun. Running too long in the sun can cause heat stroke and exhaustion. If you take refuge in the mountains, be prepared for a drop in temperature, and cold wet nights. Further north, expect cloudy skies and torrential rain which chills you if left unchecked.

You're only one human being against a world that is designed to kill you. So how do you survive?

You MUST cooperate.

Maybe that scarce can of beans, or that canteen of water, can satiate 2 people rather than one. Maybe a pair of eyes covering your six increases your chances of survival when scavenging in an infested city. Maybe when you can't walk on your leg, a friend could take you on their shoulder so you can walk again. Maybe someone could set and splint that broken leg of yours. Maybe someone can bring that fever down by tending to you while you're sick and unable to take care of yourself. Maybe being within close proximity to others makes you share body heat when the temperature drops. Maybe that other person has the matches, and you've got the hatchet.

Maybe, when the world is a living hell...Other people are your only hope to survive.

It's just a thought...But I think it's the only way to keep DayZ from becoming Deathmatch + Zombies.

[/quote']

Sweet! Survivors come in pairs now! And so do bandits!

[Time Glitch 453]

Sweet! Survivors come in pairs now! And so do bandits!

And when Rocket introduces more fortification-building mechanics, settling an area will drastically increase survival chances in this new, harsher DayZ. Forming bigger groups will benefit you on supply runs. Having more people to contribute to the food and medical supplies pool will help your group survive longer. Chances of finding a vehicle go up with more people looking.

It's a natural progression.

[Psyl3nt 125]

I'm not so sure it would change anything really, it would only provide an even greater incentive for others to kill you, I mean if food / supplies are even more scarce than they are now then there is no way anyone would share, let alone medical supplies.

I'm part of a number of gaming communities, one community I am involved with had many months of people whinging on the forums (much like here), that the game is too easy, not "extreme" enough and so on.

So eventually the devs listened, changed the entire game mechanics, implemented new difficulty benchmarks, and gave the playerbase what all those on the forums had been asking for all along.

And you know what has happened ? - many people don't play anymore, and those that do, spend a lot of time on the forums now, whinging that the game is "too hard" . . . . .

It has basically killed the playerbase, and all because of listening to the forum folk.

I only hope that rocket sticks to his guns, and follows his own vision with this, please don't make kneejerk changes to the game especially major ones in response to forum posts.

On average in any game, the forum community makes up about %5 of the playerbase, so it's a case of the %5 speaking for the other %95 that are not active on forums.

And that %95 are the ones who determine the success or failure of a game, while the %5 are pushing for changes that perhaps the %95 do not want or will not like.

[davidcastle 19]

All i can say is, no matter how big the group. I will still sniper you from 800 meters with my L85 thermal. and when zeds come, I will lay down the law with my saw.

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BANDIT TILL THE BITTER END

[Refried 14]

it's a shame you put all that effort into that large and well-stated OP because the bottom line is this:

as long as players can shoot each other, they will.

and this is a very good thing. i have been attempting to stress in several posts now that static, AI-driven NPC code will never, ever, ever approach the uncertainty and excitement of dealing with a player whose intentions are unknowable.

no matter how much crap you try to pile up to increase difficulty, it will eventually be figured out and distilled down to something easily overcome. the only way to have a constant supply of fresh experiences is through potentially hostile player interaction.

[Scerun 227]

This is a really great insight into making the game more about the right kind of survival. Survival from the world - not from the other players.

Thanks for taking the time to write this up!

[joaby 25]

Yeah, I'm sorry but this would just make pack hunting more inviting to me and my bandito friends. And hey - instead of one body to loot, we get at least two!

[CosmicOsmo 1]

I think we can all agree that there is simply too much murder right now.

I don't agree.

[Time Glitch 453]

I'm not so sure it would change anything really' date=' it would only provide an even greater incentive for others to kill you, I mean if food / supplies are even more scarce than they are now then there is no way anyone would share, let alone medical supplies. [/quote']

I don't think so, somehow. Especially if ammo was even more scarce than it currently is.

If you can share, just avoid the bloodshed and ask for some help. People underestimate how valuable another player can be. All they see are the beans. I tried to outline this a bit in the OP, but there are mechanics in there that give players more power than their items...Where an alive player is more valuable than his items.

I only hope that rocket sticks to his guns, and follows his own vision with this, please don't make kneejerk changes to the game especially major ones in response to forum posts.

Same, but this is the time when he should be trying drastic and interesting stuff like this. This is Alpha; the time for features and fun.

[davidcastle 19]

it doesn't matter the game. Players want to kill shit. Heck EVEN IN Amnesia the dark decent, a game where you can't kill. People found how to Glitch the monsters with objects and make them fall of cliffs.

[red62 9]

would read again 10/10

[Surg3on 4]

I think the OP has some solid ideas. You would probably need to make zombies slow (given current zombie bugginess I wouldnt be suprised if making them slow isnt goign to end up as a requirement) and very populous around loot areas though. You would NEED to clear zombies to get loots and doing that alone would be risky, having the loot not halved would also help (ie the can of food for both players). Other stuff like splints would help.

I say wait for the radio system first and see what happens.

Ahh Alpha.

[The Burned Man 20]

It already is a hell, you get killed by EVERYTHING except maybe people you know.

Which is EXACTLY the point of the mod.

If I wanted to kill zombies all day I would be playing dead rising and even there you have to deal with psychopaths.

What would get people to work together is to put stuff in the game that is better than things you can get solo, or things to gain that need to be defended in a group.

Punishing lone wolf play is a terrible idea and luckily will never be considered by rocket.

[SystemiK 366]

There is a problem with this.

If you introduce a game mechanic which brute forces the existing PVP mechanic entirely out of the game, you have irreperably altered the foundation of this mod. PVP is a PRINCIPAL part of the very experiment we are testing here. What you are suggesting is to turn the ship about and take an entirely different direction.

If the devs were to take in interest who am I to argue (and I expect they won't) but let's be very clear, taking your approach would be tantamount to abandoning this "experiment" we are curently undertaking.

What you suggest, CO-OP play ON A MASSIVE SCALE, well let's face it, that is simply not DayZ, as it has been envisioned and designed by the devs. I would love to play through your idea sometime, but it would never be DayZ.

[Time Glitch 453]

What you suggest' date=' CO-OP play ON A MASSIVE SCALE, well let's face it, that is simply not DayZ, as it has been envisioned and designed by the devs. I would love to play through your idea sometime, but it would never be DayZ.

[/quote']

If PermaDeathmatch + Some Zombies is exactly what Rocket wants this experiment to be about, then by all means let that continue. I haven't seen the evidence to support that this is his vision, though.

And I'm not looking to get rid of PvP. That will never happen, as some have said. I just want to get rid of EVERY encounter being one where people start shooting at one another. I haven't heard a story of cooperation in a long time.