Wilderness Survival Reduces Gear Choices

[Kzalor 3]

I just got back into DayZ and I love the added hunting, fishing, and firemaking mechanics. Slowly we are getting to the point where you can try to survive in the wilderness.

 

There is one problem at the moment. The equipment required for you to be able to successfully live in the wild crowds out all of the interesting backpack choices. To be able to catch fish and cook them over a fire you need an axe, pick, and shovel plus your fishing rod. Only with a mountaineering pack do you have a chance of being able to carry all of these tools and there is a strong incentive to wear a vest just to have a few inventory slots left over for some other items (plus room for stones, kindling, wood, matches, and, you know, that food you wanted to cook). Eventually tents will be added to the game and you can store some of your tools there, but really, the tool requirements and/or pack space required for them at the moment seem excessive. One small change that would help to alleviate the problem is if stones were classified as uncommon or common and could be found in the wild rather than as rare civilian loot. This would eliminate the rather silly need to carry a pick in order to break boulders to get stones. I don't know about anyone else, but when I backpack or canoe I don't carry a pickaxe with me so that I can get the stones I need to build my campfire at night. I do bring a hatchet to aid with gathering wood, but really, who brings a pickaxe? The shovel requirement to find worms kind of makes sense but that also seems a bit like overkill. Perhaps a smaller, improvised tool could also be used for this purpose.

 

If the slot burdern for wilderness survival was reduced then it would be possible for people to use some of the other interesting backpack items like the different courier bags (my favourite) or improvised backpacks (another favourite). It would also help alleviate the pressure to use a combat vest. I personally hate using the vests because it ruins several of the outfits I like to use and hurts some of the roleplaying I like to do.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Kzalor

[frosti 2165]

On the bright side, this encourage group play.

 

One person carry axe, second, pick axe, third shovel to dig up worms etc.

 

Actually I thnk that this hunting and fishing was intended for groups of 2+ players.

 

Lonewolfs will have to rather stick to ploundring supermarkets.

[pilgrim* 3514]

I just got back into DayZ and I love the added hunting, fishing, and firemaking mechanics. Slowly we are getting to the point where you can try to survive in the wilderness.

..//..

I don't know about anyone else, but when I backpack or canoe I don't carry a pickaxe with me so that I can get the stones I need to build my campfire at night. I do bring a hatchet to aid with gathering wood, but really, who brings a pickaxe? The shovel requirement to find worms kind of makes sense but that also seems a bit like overkill. Perhaps a smaller, improvised tool could also be used for this purpose.

..//..

 

What you say about stones is true.. IRL stones, ya can find them anywhere, so who carries them around, backpackers ?

 

Also you can dig for worms with anything sharp.. any cutting edge (bayonet, knife..) or even an arrowhead, the heel of your boot, an empty can, or a stick - if its strong enough to make a splint you can sure dig worms with it.

 

Kzalor right on first post

Edited June 24, 2014 by pilgrim

[frosti 2165]

 

What you say about stones is true.. IRL stones, ya can find them anywhere, so who carries them around, backpackers ?

 

Well I happened to be in IRL forest or even Outside and I must say that it is rather hard to find stones for freplace if there is no river nearby.

 

 

worms

 

Gameplay, to encourage grouping with people to go fishing with.

[Kzalor 3]

Well I happened to be in IRL forest or even Outside and I must say that it is rather hard to find stones for freplace if there is no river nearby.

 

 

Gameplay, to encourage grouping with people to go fishing with.

 

Stones are easier to find near rivers and I think it would actually be neat if stones were an uncommon loot spawn near bodies of water in the DayZ wilderness. I would be in favour of limiting the spawn areas by proximity to bodies of water.

 

As for gameplay, one of the joys of DayZ is that playstyle is open-ended. Creating artificial incentives to group together kind of restricts some of the breadth of potential gameplay. Basebuilding would likely be aided by teamwork since and this is a realistic place to encourage cooperative gameplay. Catching a fish and cooking it does not require a team of people IRL and it seems rather limiting and against the idea of DayZ itself to push people into groups in order to catch their evening trout.

[frosti 2165]

 

As for gameplay, one of the joys of DayZ is that playstyle is open-ended. Creating artificial incentives to group together kind of restricts some of the breadth of potential gameplay. Basebuilding would likely be aided by teamwork since and this is a realistic place to encourage cooperative gameplay. Catching a fish and cooking it does not require a team of people IRL and it seems rather limiting and against the idea of DayZ itself to push people into groups in order to catch their evening trout.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but IRL if people go fishing they use a car to transport all their stuff on the spot right?

[Kzalor 3]

Correct me if I am wrong but IRL if people go fishing they use a car to transport all their stuff on the spot right?

Yes, and they usually bring expensive poles, tackle boxes with appropriate equipment for what they are catching, thermoses, coolers, perhaps something to sit on, footwear, clothing, etc. This isn't the life-or-death survival fishing in DayZ.

 

In DayZ, we don't have specialized poles and tackle boxes and other such equipment. Think about it, we fish with an improvised rod made with a stick, rope, and a hook (thinner rope or string and a pebble for a weight would be nice but what we have is good enough) wearing rags and worn clothing, and we don't necessarily have thermoses and coolers and nice little stools. In this setting it makes even less sense to expect we would have a nice hardware store pickaxe to break boulders and a big shovel to dig worms (instead of, as the other poster said, using a bayonet, your foot, knife, stick, etc.). A hatchet/axe is not an unreasonable thing to bring on a backpacking trip and really, you could use the handle of that to help dig for worms in a pinch.

 

There are really two questions here: What makes sense for the survival/realism theme; and, what makes for good game play and good game design decisions. At the moment I think the current system misses the mark a bit on both counts.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Kzalor

[randomspawn 215]

Well I happened to be in IRL forest or even Outside and I must say that it is rather hard to find stones for freplace if there is no river nearby.

 

 

Gameplay, to encourage grouping with people to go fishing with.

Please come to my house with a small bit of acreage. You can find a million-and-one rocks, and I will let you take them all free of charge. If you get tired of picking them up on top of the ground, get a shovel and dig millions more just under the surface. 

 

FWIW, i've built a lot of fires, and I can't remember the last time I bothered with gathering rocks. This is a survival game, not a state-park campground. Rocks aren't needed at all. Wood, matches and maybe some kindling. Instant fire, and no 50lb rocks to haul around.

[frosti 2165]

@Kzalor

 

My point was that if you get a car in DayZ then you will not need a friend to fish comfortable.

 

@randomspawn

 

Well in DayZ you can actually find a lot of rocks in the castles and they are sure loot to be there (at least in .45). Maybe you are lucky to be  in rocky area IRL but there are places (even forests) that there is simply no rocks around to make a good fireplace. So overally DayZ reflects it good I think. Also gameplay, it makes pick axe good for something other then killing people ( you can get rocks from rocks with it).

[randomspawn 215]

@Kzalor

 

My point was that if you get a car in DayZ then you will not need a friend to fish comfortable.

 

@randomspawn

 

Well in DayZ you can actually find a lot of rocks in the castles and they are sure loot to be there (at least in .45). Maybe you are lucky to be  in rocky area IRL but there are places (even forests) that there is simply no rocks around to make a good fireplace. So overally DayZ reflects it good I think. Also gameplay, it makes pick axe good for something other then killing people ( you can get rocks from rocks with it).

yes, but why do you need a rock for a fire when you have zombies and PVP players running around?

[frosti 2165]

yes, but why do you need a rock for a fire when you have zombies and PVP players running around?

 

I'm not sure if I understand the question.

 

However, on some areas in game, there is strong wind and you gonna lose a lot of matches if you'll be trying to start the fire on fireplace not protected by rocks.

[KingOfTime 267]

I'm not sure if I understand the question.

 

However, on some areas in game, there is strong wind and you gonna lose a lot of matches if you'll be trying to start the fire on fireplace not protected by rocks.

Is that how that works? I have had trouble lighting fires before, but I didnt think to go find some more rocks. I just waited for a while for the wind to calm down. 

[KingOfTime 267]

Well I happened to be in IRL forest or even Outside and I must say that it is rather hard to find stones for freplace if there is no river nearby.

 

 

Gameplay, to encourage grouping with people to go fishing with.

 

Well I happened to be in IRL forest or even Outside and I must say that it is rather hard to find stones for freplace if there is no river nearby.

 

 

Gameplay, to encourage grouping with people to go fishing with.

Depends on where you live. Up here in New England there are rocks everywhere.

[brumey 116]

fully geared fishing and grilling is the new endgame.

[Ninja_Meh 115]

in all honesty, i do have gripes with how the survival elements and crafting options dont offer a better alternative to going to the higher risk of pvp areas to get large bags and so on. i love the look and camo option of the craftable bag, but at 20 slots it just leaves you a lot more ill equipped than someone with the mountain bag and even the taloon pack, at a small cost of the colour of the bag being less camouflaged. in agreement with the op post, you can also factor in the inability to be able to carry many of the other tools needed to full on survive, especially as a lone wolf, by survival means.

 

i really hope to see something along the lines of the arma 2 mod system for a toolbelt. even better yet if you can craft one AND loot one as well. I mean for me, I know full well I'd be looking to create varied carrying options for myself if was found in the setting within the game. as it stands crafting items and using current food foraging and survival/hunting options is a large disadvantage to grabbing a mountain pack, stacking it with food and a tin opener and just ignoring what i hope to be a far more core orientated aspect to the game come later patches.

 

i really hope they balance it out sooner or later in a way where being resourceful and avoiding high risk areas has as many benefits as drawbacks, not only will it create a more fun environment to play in but will lead to a lot more variety in playstyles and loot preference. i mean rope, come on, it seems to be a stupidly rare loot drop at the moment and yet is in real world terms going to be a lot more likely to be found in MANY places than bloody ammo and stuff, given the setting.

 

i dunno. there is pros and cons for both arguments but i REALLY hope the emphasis pushes to crafting and traditional survival methods later on in development than we have so far.

 

p.s. the rocks for fireplaces thing is a bit odd, i would suggest being able to find containers such as paper bin baskets or something you can build fires into as well as the rock and wood method. meh

[Bororm 1156]

You don't need rocks for a fire I don't think, it's just to upgrade it which possibly doesn't even work?  I do think you should be able to gather stones from stone walls, and probably some other sources though.

 

I agree it's a bit more effort than it's worth currently.  I like that it sorta requires some team work, but I also agree it kinda fucks over lone survivor types.  Maybe they'll add some smaller shovels that can fit in your pack, or more options for bait etc.

 

Any ways, it's early implementation and all of this stuff will be tweaked.

[jgbtl292 45]

stones, kindling, wood you can find on the ground - only a axe a farming( for worms ), rope, and a fishing hook you need for fireplaces stone ovens fishing hunting with bow ;)   you need only a good place.  i hope they  make in the nord-east not so many towns. ( is very quied and no kids underway here.  ( i hate the copter later in game full with hunting kids searching tends n the wood for kill people .... ) ....actual i have found two places for a prepared town - militarybase and a military traingcenter or a industrial side in nw.

 

only the water is a little problem on the nord-west edge ^^   and later you need water clearing tabs for the wild water ... i hope they add  cooking water for drink !  for the survival dudes ^^

Edited June 24, 2014 by Crusader78

[zeeabo 92]

I dunno if fires are bugged and meant to require a stone, or what.. But I never use stones and don't need to carry a pickaxe. I start fires all over Chernarus and lack of carrying space has never stopped me.

The occasional pick I do find, I'll go mine a rock just to re-sharpen all my blades.. but it's not a whole lot harder just to find new blades.

So other than sharpening common, easy to find weapons and upgrading a fire which seems to add no benefit at the moment.. What other uses does the rock provide so often that you're forced to carry a pick around instead of just finding one the one time per week that you need one?

 

For the record, I play a survivalist with the 20 space impro backpack, and I have no trouble at all carrying around everything I need to survive, with space for a 4x2 deer pelt AND 4 steaks leftover.

[KingOfTime 267]

The cow pelt should allow you to craft a fairly sizable backpack. After all, a cow is a rather large animal.

[jgbtl292 45]

the stones are only to make a stone oven later in the game ;)

[zeeabo 92]

The cow pelt should allow you to craft a fairly sizable backpack. After all, a cow is a rather large animal.

 

100% agreed. Kinda ridiculous that at the moment we can craft a bigger pack using a burlap sack than with a full animal pelt. (considering the upgrade with sticks crafts a . at the moment with hide bags)

 

IMHO leather 'courier bag' should be the size of burlap improv. backpack, and leather improv. backpack should be same size as hunters backpack.