Why we should embrace "R" to chamber. [Take your time to read please.]

[fowang 60]

so because CoD and BF (and about every other game) uses ESC to access the menu, we should conciously ignore this design pattern and make opening the menu especially clunky, with the purpose of differentiating this game from all the other "easy mode", "arcade" games? bullshit.

 

binding a key to a certain action is an interface decision, it is a question of usability, not of gameplay. if chambering a single round is a gameplay action used regularly by players, it makes perfect sense to offer a keybind for it. and it should be up to the player to decide, to which key he wants this action bound to. As a medic, i can have a bandage in my quickbar and ready it with one keypress, its not unreasonable from a combat-oriented player to be able to initiate a "chamber one bullet" action with one keypress.

 

How long such an action would take, what it would mean in terms of gameplay, thats a matter of implementation and balance. but bad usability and UX design does not equal realism.

 

 

Why follow this design pattern?

 

This is not a fast paced FPS like cod/bf with spawn with all your gear this is DAYZ and it can be bit of a dick.

 

I wish I had a "R" option when going pigeon shooting ;)

[-Gews- 7443]

For weapons like the double barrel I'd support a different anim triggered by R, which is slightly longer than that of the speedloader. After all, those weapons are made to be reloaded like that. The rest of the weapons seem fine as is

Those things should have the "snap-loaders" at all. Speed loaders for the Python is one thing but the double-barrel? The Blaser? Not for those.

I think ideally, you should press "reload" X times to load X rounds one by one, and press it once to load a magazine or some such, provided you keep the rounds in an outer pocket and not somewhere hard to access.

One problem is with the reloads and animations. You can't reload rounds one-by-one, right now "chambering" a round just means you're placing a one-shot magazine into the gun, and gun can't have five magazines loaded all at once. There is also only one reload animation per weapon. So until that is changed we are stuck with the current system I suppose, to give some advantage to stripper clips and speed loaders, otherwise they would be pointless.

[liquidsnake 275]

Those things should have the "snap-loaders" at all. Speed loaders for the Python is one thing but the double-barrel? The Blaser? Not for those.

I think ideally, you should press "reload" X times to load X rounds one by one, and press it once to load a magazine or some such, provided you keep the rounds in an outer pocket and not somewhere hard to access.

One problem is with the reloads and animations. You can't reload rounds one-by-one, right now "chambering" a round just means you're placing a one-shot magazine into the gun, and gun can't have five magazines loaded all at once. There is also only one reload animation per weapon. So until that is changed we are stuck with the current system I suppose, to give some advantage to stripper clips and speed loaders, otherwise they would be pointless.

Exactly. Best case scenario, we get short reload anims which load one bullet. We need those for the non-magazine rifles/pistols

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

I'm arguing fact, not opinion. You can take a bullet out of your pocket in real life and chamber a round so it can be done in game and there's NO argument to be made that it can't be done. At what point would it be "fast" and like the OP said, why not then make it so you have to grab magazines from your inventory as well?

Yes, it can be done... by dragging the bullet from your storage to the weapon with your mouse, and not by pressing a key. I love the fact that this stimulates the real action you've to do and not only a animation triggered by pressing "r"

So you want everything to be manual and only snaploaders allow for a shorter reload time? What about magazines?

 

Also your opinion is not an argument, its just a statement with only your opinion backing it. Why is it too easy? How is it too fast? Indeed... everything that causes an action is 'causal'... not sure where you were going with that.

Yes, in my opinion everything should be manual, I'd even like to see "minigames" for all actions like skinning an animal, reload a magazine, spray your things, etc. And with minigames I mean using your mouse, for example with a knife along the animal. And why do I want this? Because DayZ is still the only game which atleast tries to simulate an apocalypse in a realistic way, and I won't simply watch how it gets easier and easier. There are enough games going the easy way, and that's not what I want.

[Jex 1104]

Ejecting a case from the chamber takes a lot more time. A mag is released at the press of a button or simply when pulling the mag out, while ejecting a case requires you to do it manually. Reloading a single bullet requires you to put it into the relatively small chamber, push it into the barrel and cocking the gun. Reloading a mag is just putting it into the gun. Not only is chambering a gun way slower, you can't do it blindly, like with a mag. You HAVE to look at the gun to succesfully chamber it.

 

Keep it like it is now

 

I could strip my rifle and put it back together again blindfolded so I call BS on this :) Modern guns eject the cases themselves, what are you talking about?

[Sutinen 635]

Then secondly, allow turning weapon flashlights on and off with the action menu too..

Ejecting a case from the chamber takes a lot more time. A mag is released at the press of a button or simply when pulling the mag out, while ejecting a case requires you to do it manually. Reloading a single bullet requires you to put it into the relatively small chamber, push it into the barrel and cocking the gun. Reloading a mag is just putting it into the gun. Not only is chambering a gun way slower, you can't do it blindly, like with a mag. You HAVE to look at the gun to succesfully chamber it.

Keep it like it is now

Actually when you fire a pistol, the slide goes back and there goes the casing. If you wanna eject the round that is not yet fired, you cock it back and catch it. Simple.

Same with any other gun. Chamber a mosin? Then just eject it like you would after you shoot one.

E: That was a sweet ass double-post. Please merge these posts

Edited June 18, 2014 by kichilron

[Element47 2481]

 

I wish I had a "R" option when going pigeon shooting ;)

 

You have. The real-world keybind is your memory, what to do. Within miliseconds, you decide to reload and initiate the proper action, your muscles react, and you begin reloading.

 

The keybind is only the trigger of the action. In real life, our brain does this instantly.

[fowang 60]

You have. The real-world keybind is your memory, what to do. Within miliseconds, you decide to reload and initiate the proper action, your muscles react, and you begin reloading.

 

The keybind is only the trigger of the action. In real life, our brain does this instantly.

Must bring my keyboard next time :rolleyes:

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

So a pump action shotgun should require one inventory access for every inserted shell? reloading the internal magazine of a pump action is EXACTLY the same as chambering a single shell.

 

I'm sorry, loading a single round or a magazine can be done in complete obscurity, we have fingers, and unlike wet sausages, they can sense touch. Balance wise I'm not convinced that reloading a single shot is much longer than swapping magazine, the main difference being that with a magazine , you don't have to do it again for the next 15/30 shots.

[hombrecz 832]

I wish they would change reload system. I would like if only items in tactical vest, pants or jacket, could be put onto hotbar.

So if you had say Sporter in your hands, no magazine for that, you could drag .22LR ammo to the number 1 slot in hotbar and then if you pressed 1, your character would chamber round to the Sporter in your hand.

 

With magazines it would be the same, you would have to put it in tac vest,jacket or pants, drag it onto the hotbar and reload by pressing the number.

That would also remove the unwanted reloading, when you are trying to open doors :-D.

 

TAB would be then used for accessing inventory and if you pressed it, your character would stop and kneel, same as was in mod.

All this running while shuffling through backpack is a bit nonsence and I feel it should go away.

[vladomir 8]

I like the idea... If I have a 22 and I'm shooting it I might have a handful of rounds in my coat pocket not shoved away in a back pack. If I was worried about zombies are hell I'd have them in my mouth!!! I don't like the ....shoot ...open inventory... Local the correct round... Load it... Close inventory ..then start over because I'm dead! Even if you have several types of rounds you are not going to fumble through rounds for guns you don't have yet your going to have the clips loaded and ready to use. I don't mind having to load them first but for single shot weapons inventory searches are for the birds.

YES to R for reload is my vote! I'm even for an ammo pouch or belt that sorts the crap for you...if you have ammo for that gun it shows up as useable. Make the game realize that if we were in this situation reload speed is very important to survival and we are all smart enough not to put rounds in a baggy and shove it to the bottom of our backpack.

[TiggyPooh 134]

Are you saying you can't grab a mag and put it in your pocket without looking at it? Everyone can. On the other side, putting a small object into a hole of about the same size, ALWAYS requires you to look. It's like putting a battery into something, you always look.

 

With a little practice you will learn to do that in the dark and even under the sheets.  :D

 

Seriously though, you can learn to chamber/reload your gun with bullets you have stacked in your pockets without looking at the gun.

It is called Combat Reloading, were you train to reload a weapon while keeping your eyes on the threat.

 

[vladomir 8]

Nice video Tiggy... See the ammo belt... He's not looking through his back pack for his next round he has himself setup to survive. Which is how I would be in a zombie survival situation. The game should reflect this. I don't think that it should be an issue if everyone has a quicker reload it evens the playing field. If you have a multi shot rifle you still have an advantage over a single shot because he should still have to load it (animation) but not fumble for a round in some inventory window...it takes the immersion out of it for me. The not a lot of things to distract you on the screen is awesome but then..wham... Inventory window to find a round. Eh I could live without that break in the action. Makes single shot guns more used instead of throw it down once you find something that you don't have to load as much.

[liquidsnake 275]

With a little practice you will learn to do that in the dark and even under the sheets.  :D

 

Seriously though, you can learn to chamber/reload your gun with bullets you have stacked in your pockets without looking at the gun.

It is called Combat Reloading, were you train to reload a weapon while keeping your eyes on the threat.

 

I was mainly referring to guns that weren't meant to be manually loaded (M4, AKM, most pistols). Guns like the Blaze, that shotgun and the Mosin all need two reload anims (both triggered by R). One for loose rounds and one for a speedloader (this anim would be a lot faster). For guns like the M4, IMO the drag reload should stay.

[TiggyPooh 134]

Here's my idea and suggestion how this would work, very simple, intuitive and fair.

 

There are essentially 2 ways to reload a weapon.

 

1 using a quick re-loader, clip or a magazine (SKS, AKM, FNX,..).

2 manually loading bullets into the chamber.

 

Pressing R will either reload a quick re-loader, clip or a magazine if you have those in your inventory.

If you don't it will load a single bullet.

For the Mosin you can press the R 5 times to reload 5 bullets, double action Blaze you can press R twice, or just once and only load one bullet.

Reloading times should be similar as in real life, taking bullet out of pocket, loading putting it into the chamber and cocking the weapon.

 

 

edit: yeah, I agree reloading magazines should still have to be done in the inventory with the drag and drop.

Edited July 1, 2014 by TiggyPooh

[Mark Darkers 151]

   For those who says that this thing about opening up your inventory is about reality and those about keeping calm so you can reload.

      Thinking this way, why don't you have to «Eject» your empty magazine so you can drag and reload your gun with a loaded one?? The system easily eject the magazine for you. Where is the "reality" in this?

 

Well most of your post would break the gameplay, but this point you have right here, makes sence, I actualy think they should bring up an action with eject mag, before you can reload a new one.

 

On the game mechanic side: The reason the mags can be reloaded with R is to give them a proper functionality ingame, a reason people would use them.

 

[nikom7 19]

My example.

 

Mosin Nagant, SKS etc, should be able to be loaded even if rounds are in the non-detachable magazine.

 

R could be used. Loading should take longer, loading with stripper clips and other assistances should be significantly lower (speedloaders, revolvers, shotguns etc.)

[pale1776 375]

I agree that anyone can grab a mag, but you need to look at it to determine which end has the bullets and which direction they are going unless you are trained well (and I've even seen trained soldiers f this one up.)

I disagree about putting a single round in... I used single shot rifles for many years and it was rather easy for me to reach in my pocket while talking to a friend, open the bolt, and drop a round in without looking. Why? I could feel which end of the bullet was which easily (they do have a rather unique shape) and the chamber of my weapon never changed shape... it's super easy after just a few rounds fired. Now, doing the same with semi-automatic weapons can be tricky -- for example, with my Springfield XD .40 I have to aim the weapon down and carefully drop the round in or sometimes it doesn't align properly and falls out or (worse) gets jammed -- although I'm sure if I loaded my weapon that way regularly it would become easy.

Really, have you ever held a mag? Theyre shaped JUST SO you know which way to feed it. And civilians cant reload as well as soldiers, I can reload in roughly a second if I draw from my vest. If I have a double mag, roughly half a second. Now I am enlisting under 18X, and practice mag changes for "fun" but really? We HAVE to be civilians ingame? What happened to the big deal when I brought up PTSD for killing tons of people? You know, when everyone quarter and drawed me? About how "This is DayZ, this is YOUR story"? Well this is MY story, which I base on MY training.

[Ganjamaster 8]

I believe if you have ammo or magazines in a readily accessible place (ie, in the front pocket of an assault vest), you should be able to press R.

 

Players who carefully plan out how their gear is organized should be rewarded. Players with ammo in their backpacks should have to open their backpacks to retrieve it. 

 

I agree on this. Fits in current state of mind of the game. since it also makes a big difference where you get hit for items to be dmged. It is only logical it also makes sense how you sort your items a gun in a protector case in my backpack should not be so easily accesable just by pressing a number..

 

but it makes sence that when i get hit on my backpack that gun is not dmged because i had it in the protector case..

Edited July 2, 2014 by Ganjamaster