Some questions regarding the AK-74

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

(Before I start, let me remind you I'm talking about that AK-74, not the AKM. If you do think I'm referring to the AKM, please, shut up.)

 

Alright. A few months ago, people got to play a early pre-alpha build of DayZ on the floor. The only weapon, was a BEAUTIFULLY modeled AK-74M. A few weeks before, we got some screenshots of the new magazine model and a GP25 grenade launcher, all shown properly attached to the gun (proving that the attachment system did work). I was pumped, the AK-74M was my favorite gun in the world. It looked awesome, to boot.

 

On release, it's absent. Six months later, it's still absent. It's been in the game files ever since release. Why isn't in the game?

 

Another question. Why haven't the devs regarded this? Wouldn't it cause less confusion to trash a weapon and it's attachments and tell us beforehand?

 

Also; why get rid of a great looking, functional, and ubiquitous weapon with functioning attachments right before release? Was there something wrong with the weapon itself? Was it bugged? Or is it a case of "trying to keep the ammo types to a minimum" that Torchia mentioned earlier?

 

Can I please, please get some insight from someone who KNOWS the answer? It's been bugging me since release.

[TheWanderingMan 170]

The dispersion would suck bro!!!!

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

The dispersion would suck bro!!!!

Why, exactly?

[Katana67 2907]

I don't exactly know what the hold-up is with the AK-74M.

 

However, Torchia has hinted at the issue as being to do with the ammunition. But, if they really wanted to implement it, they could just have it fire 5.56x45 and rename it to the AK-101.

 

But you're right, it was one of those weapons we saw first and never saw again. It was said to be on "indefinite" hold, but I'm not exactly sure why.

[gibonez 3633]

I don't exactly know what the hold-up is with the AK-74M.

However, Torchia has hinted at the issue as being to do with the ammunition. But, if they really wanted to implement it, they could just have it fire 5.56x45 and rename it to the AK-101.

But you're right, it was one of those weapons we saw first and never saw again. It was said to be on "indefinite" hold, but I'm not exactly sure why.

Making the ak 74m into the ak101 is not the problem.

The problem is that such a change would just set a precedent for further compromises on realism and authenticity.

So simply incorrectly changing the the most widely spread and used service rifle in Slavic countries to a modernized and niche 5.56 variant is not a solution in any shape or form.

It's just one of those situations where we sort of miss what the big problem actually is.

[Katana67 2907]

Making the ak 74m into the ak101 is not the problem.

The problem is that such a change would just set a precedent for further compromises on realism and authenticity.

So simply incorrectly changing the the most widely spread and used service rifle in Slavic countries to a modernized and niche 5.56 variant is not a solution in any shape or form.

It's just one of those situations where we sort of miss what the big problem actually is.

 

No, you view it as an irreconcilable problem and indicative of a negative trend. I don't, and view it as a singular issue with an easily implemented solution. It's as simple as that.

 

There's nothing more "modernized" about an AK-101, it is just an AK-74M... chambered in a different round.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Katana67

[Maximillie 6]

There is already an automatic weapon in the game bro

[SFRGaming 718]

I'd rather them NOT add the one you saw on Dayztv, as it would suffer from the same problem the first animal models do. It won't be as detailed as the current weapons. Over time, procedures and techniques used to make items will change, and they will revisit older items and give them an updated model, so they don't look out of place. Plus, with the AK-74 uses a round that is not utilized by any guns in-game yet and the only way we will see it implemented is if Torchia can get a batch of guns that utilize that round (all not being AK's mind you).

[liquidsnake 275]

I don't know for sure, but they're gonna change the ammo type to 5.56x45. Apparently that's quite a hassle. Or they want to hold off on it until they get the GP-25 working. It sure is a beautiful model, so here's to hoping that it arrives soon

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

While I understand the concern Shadow...the model still looked pretty good. They first showed a screenshot of it alongside the Blazer model, and that was a LONG time ago. And the Blaze looks fine. I just want a definitive answer from someone.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

They probably don't want to have to add in the grenade launcher yet, if they added the gun the community would never shut up about the grenade launcher even though it would probably be extremely broken.

 

Maybe they will add it relatively soon since they've started with the throwing physics.

 

Can't say I care too much about them adding a grenade launcher that makes it even more of a war game...

Although it would be HILARIOUS to see bandits lag out trying to shoot you and hit a wall in front of themselves, so dying obviously.

 

Maybe they're waiting for 64bit servers to handle explosions and maybe some small scale destruction but I hope not.

The gun itself I wouldn't mind though.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

They probably don't want to have to add in the grenade launcher yet, if they added the gun the community would never shut up about the grenade launcher even though it would probably be extremely broken.

 

Maybe they will add it relatively soon since they've started with the throwing physics.

 

Can't say I care too much about them adding a grenade launcher that makes it even more of a war game...

Although it would be HILARIOUS to see bandits lag out trying to shoot you and hit a wall in front of themselves, so dying obviously.

 

Maybe they're waiting for 64bit servers to handle explosions and maybe some small scale destruction but I hope not.

The gun itself I wouldn't mind though.

40mm shells probably wouldn't cause that much destruction. Maybe knock out a fence or sign post, but HE grenades (both thrown frags and launched ones) don't actually do that much damage and rely on shrapnel. I doubt people would revolt if they had them as a rare attachment, especially considering the 40mm grenades themselves could be extremely rare.

Also, the 40mm grenades from the M203 and GP-25 only explode if they've traveled a certain distance, so you wouldn't have that many people killing themselves with them.

 

And I fail to see how adding small-arm based explosions is making it into a war game. Grenade launchers are fairly common in the real world, and it's likely that plenty would remain usable after a post-apocalyptic scenario. It's not like they're javelins, or tanks, or gunships, or fighter jets, or anything like that.

 

Even then, the AK-74M probably wouldn't come with the GP-25 pre-attached, so that's not likely the reason they left it out. They have an M203 model, too, and that would be compatible with the M4A1, so...

[a_ruttle 199]

There is already an automatic weapon in the game bro

Do us all a favour and play ArmAII, try out a few mods like ACE, variety is the spice of life innit.

Edited May 31, 2014 by a_ruttle

[gibonez 3633]

Yea a 40mm grenade launcher would not be a problem.

It is commonly found all over the world and is by no means high tech.

The 40mm could provide some interesting gameplay if they include realistic methods of aiming it in both normal fire and high angle fire.

Giving players a makeshift short range 400m mortar at the squad level would be fun.

Not to mention the crafting potential 40mm rounds would have especially with how diverse they are.

[Maximillie 6]

Do us all a favour and play ArmAII, try out a few mods like ACE, variety is the spice of life innit.

I want there to be a ton of guns in the game, the more the better. But for the alpha, I would rather have more features like hunting and different classes of guns etc. The M4A1 serves well for people to test out effects of automatic weapons. They should add ability to play soccer or basketball in the game before a new rifle of a similar class to one we already have.

Edit: I don't think that grenade launchers would work right at the present state. Maybe like rubber rounds would work well with the ricochet as it is.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Maximillie

[-Gews- 7443]

However, Torchia has hinted at the issue as being to do with the ammunition.

 

"Hinted" my ass, he said it outright: the AK-74 has been placed on hold because they did not want to add 5,45x39mm.

 

"If we add an AK74, it'll fire 5.56mm, not 5.45mm. Thats why I haven't added those in."

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling Torchia is holding it back for now but that it will eventually appear in some form. I bet some devs want it to fire 5,56 but others want it to have the correct 5,45mm so for now they just aren't doing anything with it, avoiding the issue for the moment. Who knows. As he said they had "enthusiastic" discussions (which I take to mean arguments) about even adding 7,62x39mm. Sounds like people had to fight to get that cartridge included...

 

No AK-74 is better than a wrong AK-74. For me having no AK-74 is disappointing but having a 5,56mm AK-74 would be enraging... if it will fire 5,56 they must first change the name to AK-101 and redo parts of the model such as the magazines.

[a_ruttle 199]

I want there to be a ton of guns in the game, the more the better. But for the alpha, I would rather have more features like hunting and different classes of guns etc. The M4A1 serves well for people to test out effects of automatic weapons. They should add ability to play soccer or basketball in the game before a new rifle of a similar class to one we already have.

Edit: I don't think that grenade launchers would work right at the present state. Maybe like rubber rounds would work well with the ricochet as it is.

I agree with what you've said, but I'm saying that I want to see wide variety of both weapons and ammo, for now, early in the alpha build yes, 1 type of each weapon would suffice, but I wasn't talking about now, I was talking about future development

[Katana67 2907]

"Hinted" my ass, he said it outright: the AK-74 has been placed on hold because they did not want to add 5,45x39mm.

 

"If we add an AK74, it'll fire 5.56mm, not 5.45mm. Thats why I haven't added those in."

 

I have a feeling Torchia is holding it back for now but that it will eventually appear in some form.

 

Well, the reason why I said it "hinted" at it is because... if you look at that quote, and read it as "this is why it's not in yet" it almost seems like he's waiting for 5.45x39 to put it in. Or at least some circumstance, which is different from what we've got now.

[gibonez 3633]

"Hinted" my ass, he said it outright: the AK-74 has been placed on hold because they did not want to add 5,45x39mm.

"If we add an AK74, it'll fire 5.56mm, not 5.45mm. Thats why I haven't added those in."

I have a feeling Torchia is holding it back for now but that it will eventually appear in some form. I bet some devs want it to fire 5,56 but others want it to have the correct 5,45mm so for now they just aren't doing anything with it, avoiding the issue for the moment. Who knows. As he said they had "enthusiastic" discussions (which I take to mean arguments) about even adding 7,62x39mm. Sounds like people had to fight to get that cartridge included...

No AK-74 is better than a wrong AK-74. For me having no AK-74 is disappointing but having a 5,56mm AK-74 would be enraging... if it will fire 5,56 they must first change the name to AK-101 and redo parts of the model such as the magazines.

Gews who was the dev that did not like his mosin having his models bolt bent internally.

[-Gews- 7443]

Well, the reason why I said it "hinted" at it is because... if you look at that quote, and read it as "this is why it's not in yet" it almost seems like he's waiting for 5.45x39 to put it in. Or at least some circumstance, which is different from what we've got now.

 

Yes, perhaps he wants 5,45x39 himself, who knows. But according to him, the reason it's not in at the moment is 5,45x39. They have held back weapons for long periods of time, I remember Torchia said something about not throwing in everything at once... I suspect the AK-74 might even be all ready to go.

 

Gews who was the dev that did not like his mosin having his models bolt bent internally.

 

Modeller = Harry.

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/user/6208-harryo/

 

http://h-werke.tumblr.com/

[UltimateGentleman 355]

40mm shells probably wouldn't cause that much destruction. Maybe knock out a fence or sign post, but HE grenades (both thrown frags and launched ones) don't actually do that much damage and rely on shrapnel. I doubt people would revolt if they had them as a rare attachment, especially considering the 40mm grenades themselves could be extremely rare.

Also, the 40mm grenades from the M203 and GP-25 only explode if they've traveled a certain distance, so you wouldn't have that many people killing themselves with them.

 

And I fail to see how adding small-arm based explosions is making it into a war game. Grenade launchers are fairly common in the real world, and it's likely that plenty would remain usable after a post-apocalyptic scenario. It's not like they're javelins, or tanks, or gunships, or fighter jets, or anything like that.

 

Even then, the AK-74M probably wouldn't come with the GP-25 pre-attached, so that's not likely the reason they left it out. They have an M203 model, too, and that would be compatible with the M4A1, so...

 

A frag grenade can ruin a whole room they do a lot of small scale destruction that could probably never be worked in to this engine I'd rather those kinds of explosions not be in the game than look half assed.

They'd still have to cause some destruction if they want to be authentic, and they'd need some gore too since if you got blown up by a grenade your body isn't going to be intact :D

 

Because people treat it like a PVP game enough as it is it's supposed to be a zombie survival game but everyone would just use grenades to kill each other instead of taking out hordes of zombies, only like 1 in 10 grenades would probably be used for anything tactical like that the rest would be for killing bambi's.

Having just spawned I'd rather be able to run in to a house for safety than expect grenades to fly through the windows seconds later, especially since people holding guns can run faster now coastal bandits are enough of a nuisance without grenades to play with, nevermind launch-able ones.

 

And yeah but the model is there so if they added it and didn't add the launcher people would just complain "The model is there just add it stupid devs I want to blow things up right now, it doesn't take any time to make an explosion system what are you doing!"

 

I would like the danger hearing explosions in the distance would add to the game but no matter how rare they were people could just take their time, collect like 40 and then just be assholes. It wouldn't take a clan long to hop through loads of servers and collect enough to take on an army.

 

I'd rather they add another semi-auto rifle like the SKS to another auto right now, something more modern though. Maybe something with a 20 round mag using the same ammo as the M4, that would be awesome. They've added the AKM and are adding another bolt action soon so I think semi-auto should be the way to go and then one day AK-47.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

A frag grenade can ruin a whole room they do a lot of small scale destruction that could probably never be worked in to this engine I'd rather those kinds of explosions not be in the game than look half assed.

They'd still have to cause some destruction if they want to be authentic, and they'd need some gore too since if you got blown up by a grenade your body isn't going to be intact :D

 

Because people treat it like a PVP game enough as it is it's supposed to be a zombie survival game but everyone would just use grenades to kill each other instead of taking out hordes of zombies, only like 1 in 10 grenades would probably be used for anything tactical like that the rest would be for killing bambi's.

Having just spawned I'd rather be able to run in to a house for safety than expect grenades to fly through the windows seconds later, especially since people holding guns can run faster now coastal bandits are enough of a nuisance without grenades to play with, nevermind launch-able ones.

 

And yeah but the model is there so if they added it and didn't add the launcher people would just complain "The model is there just add it stupid devs I want to blow things up right now, it doesn't take any time to make an explosion system what are you doing!"

 

I would like the danger hearing explosions in the distance would add to the game but no matter how rare they were people could just take their time, collect like 40 and then just be assholes. It wouldn't take a clan long to hop through loads of servers and collect enough to take on an army.

 

I'd rather they add another semi-auto rifle like the SKS to another auto right now, something more modern though. Maybe something with a 20 round mag using the same ammo as the M4, that would be awesome. They've added the AKM and are adding another bolt action soon so I think semi-auto should be the way to go and then one day AK-47.

AK-47 is nearly identical to the AKM they have, unless you mean the AK-74.

And yeah, people probably would use grenades to kill new spawns, but it would be more wasteful than anything. They already have tons of options in various guns, which would actually be much easier to use. Grenades would be saved for taking out groups of enemies. I'm not sure people would ever need to use them on zombies considering how easily bullets or melee can kill them.

And I doubt too much server hopping would happen, sort of like the engraved 1911, it's pretty damn cool but I doubt most people go around server hopping just to get one of them.

 

They have multiple guys working on guns, the bolt-action we see next will probably come alongside a few other projectile weapons, just like the next big update which will have the AKM, P1, LongHorn, Crossbow, and Ashwood bow, and like the last update which had the Sporter 22, Amphibia S, CR75, and 1911.

My best guess is that we'll see the MP-133, MP5K, whatever bolt-action is being made, and possibly the Remington 870 and whatever other guns they want.

[fuke (DayZ) 22]

I don't see how too many ammo types is a huge problem. It's alpha, we can put up with it; it could be countered by adding a chance for guns to spawn with a loaded magazine and/or some ammo for them nearby.

 

And actually I think it would kind of be a good thing, to have more ammo types, the great variety of ammo helped promote trade and risky looting in the mod. If it's harder to get the ammo you need that would make it harder to get fully geared for PVP. Not that I'm against PVP, but the game is more interesting when you have to make decisions like "is this worth some of my few remaining bullets for this gun?" instead of it almost always being a good decision to just shoot anything that moves.

[azimov 76]

I honestly don't get their reasoning of "we don't want to add too many cartridge types". There's plenty of other weapons that use 5.45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:5.45_mm_firearms

 

If they're going to add in "hundreds" of weapons as they have stated in the past, alot of cartridge types should not be an issue. You won't have a cartridge that you can only use in one gun.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Azimov

[Bororm 1156]

I think you guys get too hung up on what these guys say and take it as gospel.  It doesn't mean they wont add in different cartridges later.