CR75 Worthless and Equip Weapons a Hindrance.

[Insane Ruffles 74]

So I was walking through the city north of Berezino ( I forgot what it was called) and I had an SKS and a CR75 with a clip. Since it was close quarters, I decided to carry my CR75 with me while my SKS was on my back, thinking 9mm rounds would be enough to take care of someone quick. Suddenly, I see a guy hatchet rush me while screaming and Indian war chant. I quickly shot off 5 rounds right into his chest/belly before I had to dodge. I then turned around and shot 7 more shots, 4 of which connected into his back. It was at that point that I ran out of ammo, and the click click sound rung out through the buildings. Hatchet Man scoffed, "So you ran out of ammo huh?" before making a charge towards me. By this time, I decided to use my SKS, so I pressed my hot key for it. My character equipped it, then put it back on his shoulder. Frantically, I pressed the hot key again, only for the same thing to happen. Hatchet Man must of been confused, as he warily backed off into a bush as he watched my character struggle with his own coordination. Finally, after my 4th attempt, I managed to get my SKS to stay. I whirled around and shot off 2 bullets into the Hatchet Mans chest, and heard the satisfying scream of surprise as he dropped to the floor. This one conflict shows some major flaws in the engine, flaws I believe can be fixed easily. No man should be able to take 9 9mm bullets to the upper body and still be walking, and struggling with your weapon like my character did (and still does) gets you killed. If the Hatchet Man had decided to keep charging, I would have been dead. This brings the immediate question, "Shouldn't devs be more focused on fixing mechanical problems rather than adding to aesthetic appeal?" I for one was disappointed when the last patch was released, as it brought nothing but a couple of useless items and a crossbow.

Edited May 30, 2014 by InsaneRuffles

[hells high 676]

No man should be able to take 9 9mm bullets

 

 

You found fitty.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Hells High

[TheWanderingMan 170]

Happens to me everytime bro! No point moaning about it on here because the resident fanboys will defend this game like they're on the payroll.

[Elle 562]

my late father-in-law was a Houston homicide detective - you would be astounded at how many 9mm rounds a body can take before it stops moving (likely the motivation for hi-cap magazines) and its worse when the person being shot is on certain drugs or tons of adrenaline. get a .45

 

that said.... there are multiple teams of devs working on different aspects of the game, the art team (all the pretty aesthetic appeal) does NOT work on performance issues - they do art, and they do it well. currently there is a team rebuilding the render engine and maybe its just me but it sure seems like working on the engine is a LOT harder than creating a new hat.

 

perhaps you should keep up with the current development by reading all info from the devtracker and other sources that have been kindly made available to us so we have a better idea of what is going on.

[guppy22143 1081]

Lemme explain what you did wrong in that situation (no, not being a fanboy and saying that "OMFG YES PEOPLE TOTALLY COULD TAKE 9 9MM BULLETS TO THE CHEST",) but the point is you don't take the risk.

 

What you did wrong is ONLY aim for the center of mass. What I do, just to make sure they drop quickly and efficiently, is I let the handgun's recoil ride up into the upper chest, then the neck, and finally the head. Hit as many vitals as you possibly can- the easiest way to do this is to hit the head/neck.

 

If I only manage a neck shot, they usually bleed out mid fire-fight anyway. So just remember that.

[taco86 156]

my late father-in-law was a Houston homicide detective - you would be astounded at how many 9mm rounds a body can take before it stops moving (likely the motivation for hi-cap magazines) and its worse when the person being shot is on certain drugs or tons of adrenaline. get a .45

To be completely honest, most of the .45 vs 9mm comparisons are completely over blown...  The .45 acp actually has less KE than most 9mm loads, however it's rate of energy dump is very slightly faster (talking jhp here).  Wound channels, both temp and permanent are also extremely similar, as is depth of penetration...  I bet if you take a 20 inch block of 20% ballistic gel and shoot it with both, the bullets will end up at almost the exact same depth, probably around 16-18 inches (again, assuming jhp).

 

9mm is also FAR FAR more efficient in terms of the amount of KE produced compared to the weight of powder.  This is why a .45acp pistol will recoil a bit more, but produces less overall muzzle energy.

Edited May 30, 2014 by taco86

[Insane Ruffles 74]

Lemme explain what you did wrong in that situation (no, not being a fanboy and saying that "OMFG YES PEOPLE TOTALLY COULD TAKE 9 9MM BULLETS TO THE CHEST",) but the point is you don't take the risk.

 

What you did wrong is ONLY aim for the center of mass. What I do, just to make sure they drop quickly and efficiently, is I let the handgun's recoil ride up into the upper chest, then the neck, and finally the head. Hit as many vitals as you possibly can- the easiest way to do this is to hit the head/neck.

 

If I only manage a neck shot, they usually bleed out mid fire-fight anyway. So just remember that.

Well, that is sort of my point. Any one who has studied history or military knows that pretty much every soldier is trained to aim for center mass, the reason being that that is where all the vital organs are. I would say 9 bullets have a pretty good chance of finding the lungs or even heart. Center mass is essentially the best place to shoot, as it is the biggest target on the body and also the 2nd most lethal place to be hit (besides the brain.) In WW2, when Russian soldiers would shoot their Mosins, the bullet would actually travel up at a high velocity and strike either the chest or head, making aiming for center mass crucial. When center mass was hit, Germans would be knocked off their feet way more often than not. I would also like to see that, characters getting knocked off their feet when hit with a big caliber like the Mosin.

[guppy22143 1081]

Well, that is sort of my point. Any one who has studied history or military knows that pretty much every soldier is trained to aim for center mass, the reason being that that is where all the vital organs are. I would say 9 bullets have a pretty good chance of finding the lungs or even heart. Center mass is essentially the best place to shoot, as it is the biggest target on the body and also the 2nd most lethal place to be hit (besides the brain.) In WW2, when Russian soldiers would shoot their Mosins, the bullet would actually travel up at a high velocity and strike either the chest or head, making aiming for center mass crucial. When center mass was hit, Germans would be knocked off their feet way more often than not. I would also like to see that, characters getting knocked off their feet when hit with a big caliber like the Mosin.

This is because center of mass is the center of mass on the body- hence it's name.

But my point still stands. You were foolish to not try and ride the recoil, and you could have died.

 

not to mention, but isn't it even minorly possible the 9mm rounds mushroomed out before hitting any vital organs? :P

[Insane Ruffles 74]

This is because center of mass is the center of mass on the body- hence it's name.

But my point still stands. You were foolish to not try and ride the recoil, and you could have died.

 

not to mention, but isn't it even minorly possible the 9mm rounds mushroomed out before hitting any vital organs? :P

We were at such a close range that riding the recoil was impossible. As for the bullets mushrooming, again it was so close ranged that that would be very unlikely. As for recoil, I am a shooting hobbyist in real life and I was always told to aim for center mass and that riding the recoil is very bad, as there is no grouping. In other video games, grouping in center mass is always important, as is in real life. Those 5 bullets grouped in the upper left chest in the front and those 4 grouped in the lower back should have knocked him out or disabled him/severely injured him.

Edited May 30, 2014 by InsaneRuffles

[Etherious 907]

The current damage threshold is a placeholder, the hotkey struggle happens when you keep constantly pressing it over and over again. Yea, they will get fixed but you just have to be patient. Once again though, don't say you know it's a simple fix if your not knowledgeable in this field of work. (BTW A clip is a ammo loader not a magazine.)

Edited May 30, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[Insane Ruffles 74]

The current damage threshold is a placeholder, the hotkey struggle happens when you keep constantly pressing it over and over again. Yea, they will get fixed but you just have to be patient. Once again though, don't say you know it's a simple fix when your not knowledgeable in this field of work.

But I am knowledgeable in this field of work ;) I program for my job and have spent some of my free time developing for a gaming community. My shooting model had it where for every bullet that hit close to another, the damage was increased by 6% and the next bullet 10% and so on.

[Etherious 907]

But I am knowledgeable in this field of work ;) I program for my job and have spent some of my free time developing for a gaming community. My shooting model had it where for every bullet that hit close to another, the damage was increased by 6% and the next bullet 10% and so on.

Well, you better PM a dev with that "simple" fix that you mentioned. :P

Edited May 30, 2014 by DJ SGTHornet

[Maximillie 6]

It is actually unrealistic to only need 9 bullets to kill. Curtis Jackson shows how in real life you move on from 9mm wounds.

[Rkelt 46]

... flaws I believe can be fixed easily.

Thats your problem. Neither you or I(or many forum memvers) understand what its really easy in development.

"Why there are no vehicles/bikes...surely it should be easy to do..."

"Why there are no private hive already... should be easy to do..."

This kind of post(and threads) has been around since January...

 

This brings the immediate question, "Shouldn't devs be more focused on fixing mechanical problems rather than adding to aesthetic appeal?"

They are focused into developt the game...different teams with different jobs. What can the 3D designer team do but to make designs for new items? They cannot help in any other area/aspect of the game...

 

I for one was disappointed when the last patch was released, as it brought nothing but a couple of useless items and a crossbow.

Adding new items does not slow development(different team)...some aspects of the game just take more time to get through than others.

Anyway i get it, Gun damage is kinda odd in the game at this moment...players says that a gun is worthless but to other players that doesnt happen nor they think the same, like they shotgun(to some a PoS, to others a lifesaver).

In the case of the Hotbar, it is a know issue. Sometimes works, sometimes it doesnt. When i have that problem i usually drag the wepons of the main inventroy screen...it takes more time but that method never failed me 

If you like make a ticket in the bug reporter and wait, thats pretty much the only thing we can do atm...

Have fun...

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rkelt

[Elle 562]

To be completely honest, most of the .45 vs 9mm comparisons are completely over blown...  The .45 acp actually has less KE than most 9mm loads, however it's rate of energy dump is very slightly faster (talking jhp here).  Wound channels, both temp and permanent are also extremely similar, as is depth of penetration...  I bet if you take a 20 inch block of 20% ballistic gel and shoot it with both, the bullets will end up at almost the exact same depth, probably around 16-18 inches (again, assuming jhp).

 

9mm is also FAR FAR more efficient in terms of the amount of KE produced compared to the weight of powder.  This is why a .45acp pistol will recoil a bit more, but produces less overall muzzle energy.

ok so this is a 5 year old posting but read the second post (the first post on that page is a good setup tho) http://policelink.monster.com/topics/64311-stopping-power-of-the-45-acp/posts

 

edit: oops I forgot to mention... it's been my experience that the recoil on the 1911A1 is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than the 92F - buts its been a while since I've been to the range.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Elle

[lumo1234 68]

But I am knowledgeable in this field of work ;) I program for my job and have spent some of my free time developing for a gaming community. My shooting model had it where for every bullet that hit close to another, the damage was increased by 6% and the next bullet 10% and so on.

 

http://pastebin.com/

 

There you go.

 

But while writing this simple fix, please dont include the damage increase per hit near another hit. Thanks.

[taco86 156]

Well elle, it really depends on which loads we are talking about...  If we're comparing the .45 acp to the slightly lower pressure 9mm luger (35,000 psi) the .45 acp tends to come out on top, by a little tiny bit...  However, compared to 9mm nato or 9mm p+ (36,500 psi), the .45 acp has a bit less energy.  Of course there are very hot hand loads for both that produce in excess of 500 ft/lbs.

 

E=m*v^2

 

230 gr us army fmj at 830 fps = 352 ft/lbs

 

124 gr m882 9mm nato at 1270 fps = 441 ft/lbs.

 

 

P.S. both of the 9mm in the game are rated for usage with the higher pressure 9mm, the p1 was specifically designed to use it as well.

 

P.P.S. I'd love to see a more classic cz75, maybe even something rare as hell, similar to the ivory 1911.  Here is a great example, CZ 75B Cold War Commemorative.

 

Edited May 30, 2014 by taco86

[a_ruttle 199]

9 9mm bullets to the Belly and to the chest [implies innaccuracy, possibility that you didn't hit him in the chest] Is survivable and can be fought through when jumped up on adrenaline, what's bent here is that a quick bandage and about 2 hours with a belly full of food will have him in peak health. What I take out of this is the need for a proper medical system to go with the survival aspect.

[gearjammer 97]

. No man should be able to take 9 9mm bullets to the upper body and still be walking...

 

Seems to me that they're simulating 9x19 ball ammo pretty damned accurately. LOL

[Elle 562]

Well elle, it really depends on which loads we are talking about...  If we're comparing the .45 acp to the slightly lower pressure 9mm luger (35,000 psi) the .45 acp tends to come out on top, by a little tiny bit...  However, compared to 9mm nato or 9mm p+ (36,500 psi), the .45 acp has a bit less energy.  Of course there are very hot hand loads for both that produce in excess of 500 ft/lbs.

 

E=m*v^2

 

230 gr us army fmj at 830 fps = 352 ft/lbs

 

124 gr m882 9mm nato at 1270 fps = 441 ft/lbs.

 

 

P.S. both of the 9mm in the game are rated for usage with the higher pressure 9mm, the p1 was specifically designed to use it as well.

 

P.P.S. I'd love to see a more classic cz75, maybe even something rare as hell, similar to the ivory 1911.  Here is a great example, CZ 75B Cold War Commemorative.

 

 

ok so here is another article that lets us know the differences with the various 9mm rounds available... http://hunting.about.com/od/ammo/f/9mmluger9mmpara.htm

 

I'm a .45 girl either way - it just does so much of a better job at stopping peeps than the 9mm. its like the difference between being run thru with a rapier vs being slammed with a Louisville slugger, i'll take the slugger any day.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Well elle, it really depends on which loads we are talking about...  If we're comparing the .45 acp to the slightly lower pressure 9mm luger (35,000 psi) the .45 acp tends to come out on top, by a little tiny bit...  However, compared to 9mm nato or 9mm p+ (36,500 psi), the .45 acp has a bit less energy.  Of course there are very hot hand loads for both that produce in excess of 500 ft/lbs.

 

E=m*v^2

 

230 gr us army fmj at 830 fps = 352 ft/lbs

 

124 gr m882 9mm nato at 1270 fps = 441 ft/lbs.

 

 

P.S. both of the 9mm in the game are rated for usage with the higher pressure 9mm, the p1 was specifically designed to use it as well.

 

P.P.S. I'd love to see a more classic cz75, maybe even something rare as hell, similar to the ivory 1911.  Here is a great example, CZ 75B Cold War Commemorative.

 

 

I like the current CR75. The name was not actually a poor attempt of avoiding trademark issues with CZ (but it sure helps), but as a sort of addition to the current lore. Torchia said Chernarus+ rides the back of ArmAverseum lore, so we can assume that the CR is a replacement for the Makarov in the police and CDF use. So, there is a flimsy but acceptable excuse for the absence of the Makarov. Besides, it seems that Chernarus as a whole has grown quite a bit since A2 and the mod.

[taco86 156]

Well obviously energy comparison is an over simplified way of looking at "lethality".  Lethality is all about shot placement and the particular load your running...  As for their capacity to dump energy (this is what really counts), most 20% ballistic gel tests show EXTREMELY similar results with the .45 acp dumping energy very slightly faster.  The general conclusion being that the difference in the stopping power between the two is much much smaller than is commonly believed.

 

I'll give you this though, .45 acp is the more enjoyable cartridge to shoot.

 

 

Edit: Cap'n, I thought the cr75 in game is a cz75 shadow sp01 with a 4.925 inch threaded barrel.  Also, the cz75b i linked was not as a "replacement" but an addition.  Similar to the custom 1911.

Edited May 30, 2014 by taco86

[Tyrianrage 39]

9 9mm bullets to the Belly and to the chest [implies innaccuracy, possibility that you didn't hit him in the chest] Is survivable and can be fought through when jumped up on adrenaline, what's bent here is that a quick bandage and about 2 hours with a belly full of food will have him in peak health. What I take out of this is the need for a proper medical system to go with the survival aspect.

Seriously how can you say that's accurate in any way? 9, 9mm bullets in the chest and back may not KILL you if your incredibly LUCKY, but your not fighting back at all.

Secondly 50 cent was shot in the teeth, legs, and hand. No bullets hit centre mass, and that's how he's still alive.

[gearjammer 97]

I am a big fan of the .45 and even the .40 to a certain extent. The 9x19 is an accountants round... It probably looks great on paper and may even be well suited to bare against reasonable soldiers or frightened conscripts that would show concern over being shot. As far as the game goes I don't think it is that far off. I am not sure that wad-cutters would just be laying around for the .45 ACP either though, but the .357 magnum seems perfectly reasonable with the stopping power that it has in game.

[Elle 562]

Well obviously energy comparison is an over simplified way of looking at "lethality".  Lethality is all about shot placement and the particular load your running...  As for their capacity to dump energy (this is what really counts), most 20% ballistic gel tests show EXTREMELY similar results with the .45 acp dumping energy very slightly faster.  The general conclusion being that the difference in the stopping power between the two is much much smaller than is commonly believed.

 

I'll give you this though, .45 acp is the more enjoyable cartridge to shoot.

 

 

Edit: Cap'n, I thought the cr75 in game is a cz75 shadow sp01 with a 4.925 inch threaded barrel.  Also, the cz75b i linked was not as a "replacement" but an addition.  Similar to the custom 1911.

I would have to agree completely. placement is EVERYTHING in a firefight.

 

as for the fun, well its hard to say no to the hard recoil and lavish BOOM of the 1911A1 (I had to qualify on one for the USN many moons ago but have still not bought my own). my baretta just seemed anemic by comparison but its hard to say no to the hi-cap mags...... maybe I'm just too conflicted over it all. for the money and hi-cap tho I am thinking a .40S&W is in my near future.