AKM.

[Wayze 549]

Since apparently bitching posts deserve actual replies, here:

 

It cracks me up to no end when people who don't know the first thing about something tell professionals how it should be done. The DayZ dev team is a small team (that has gotten larger recently) compared to the other teams that work on a title like this, and has a large task ahead of them. They are making progress toward their goal, and yet people still continue to bitch and moan about the timeline, even though Dean Hall has quite clearly told people not to buy the game yet, as it's far from complete. The current update on EXP is a big step forward toward the survival aspect of the game with the addition of hunting, fishing, fireplaces, and the like. Improvements to Zombie pathing are around the corner as well

 

As far as the state of the game right now, it only exists like that because there is no endgame available to players. You're crazy if you think that the majority of people to whom DayZ appeals are going to constantly engage in deathmatch fights in Berezino once tents, base building, horticulture, etc. is added to the game. Also, your opinion on the M4A1 is not universal, and a good weapon will be a good weapon regardless of its rarity, and people will use it. People may gravitate toward other weapons at varying points in time, but the notion that simply because a weapon was popular and common once, it won't be again is absurd.

 

This game has, from its inception as a mod, has NEVER catered to the lowest common denominator. I really don't think that the people behind it give a shit if they run off half their user base by turning the game into a hardcore survival game. In fact, I'm almost counting on it.

 

And complaining about the spawn locations in an early access alpha of a game is just plain idiotic. They have added and changed spawn locations with every update as they work on varying parts of the map. Once they add all the new cities and towns, there is no reason to expect they're going to keep the spawns solely located in the North East. Further, they're not restricting anything. I've covered nearly every corner of the map since the SA launched, despite the current spawn locations. Once persistent objects start being a thing, my group, and I suspect many others, will actively and semi-permanently move from the North East where we primarily work now (due solely to pick up recently spawned clan mates), to the West and North West. Saying they're doing that is akin to saying they limit the amount of the map you can play on in a Battlefield map because you can only spawn at your base, or at a point you control. It's absolute nonsense. 

 

TL;DR - Complaining about what the final game will be like while the game is still being actively developed in alpha is stupid and doesn't do anything. If the game, roadmap, and the devs frustrate you so much, wait until the beta is released, the first stable retail release.

You are missing the point, we don't complain about the state of the game, we complain about design decision made by the developers. And yes, I have worked and put enough time into game development to know that some of the decisions made were very contraproductive to the goals they want to reach. They made mistakes, like I said, that amateurs make. It has absolutly nothing to do with the size of the team, neither with the state of the game, it has to do with the competence of certain individuals within the team.

I am crazy if I think that the majority of people who want to play DayZ would like deathmatch, but I am not crazy with the assumption that most people who actually play the game right now, are enjoying the deathmatch aspect of the game. We both have no evidence whatsoever, calling each other crazy is just an childish attempt to take this conversation to an agressive level. I will not tolerate that and your comparision to battlefield just shows me that there is no need for further discussion.

 

I will not change your opinion and you will most likely not change mine. I don't see any point in continuing this, which is why I will stop talking to you within this subject matter.

[Sutinen 635]

Isn't this the way it should be? People trying to scratch together all ammo they can find.

I have only one round chambered in my FNX I found from Berezino (I accidentally fell down a couple of steps and ruined my pants where the ammo was, heh), and currently I got 40 .357 rounds, 80 7.62 rounds, 30 12 gauge pellets, 50 .22 rounds, one box of 7.62x39 and one box of 9mm rounds.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Sutinen

[hotcakes 348]

Stock akm has no spread (currently)

Most combinations of M4s with a bipod have no spread

A nugget with either a compensator or a bipod has no spread

Don't have enough zoom? Decrease Fov.

The game's stats are really interesting if you comb the files.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You are missing the point, we don't complain about the state of the game, we complain about design decision made by the developers. And yes, I have worked and put enough time into game development to know that some of the decisions made were very contraproductive to the goals they want to reach. They made mistakes, like I said, that amateurs make. It has absolutly nothing to do with the size of the team, neither with the state of the game, it has to do with the competence of certain individuals within the team.

I am crazy if I think that the majority of people who want to play DayZ would like deathmatch, but I am not crazy with the assumption that most people who actually play the game right now, are enjoying the deathmatch aspect of the game. We both have no evidence whatsoever, calling each other crazy is just an childish attempt to take this conversation to an agressive level. I will not tolerate that and your comparision to battlefield just shows me that there is no need for further discussion.

 

I will not change your opinion and you will most likely not change mine. I don't see any point in continuing this, which is why I will stop talking to you within this subject matter.

Yup, 15 years as a company and you still spew garbage such as "They made mistakes, like I said, that amateurs make".  Lets see your list of accomplished games.

[Dagwood 680]

Made a decision last night to get my hands on an M4 and survive with it through the duration of the next stable patch. Why? Because the M4 will only spawn at heli crashes and server hoppers will have to start duping the new military weapon spawn: the AKM. M4 will become pretty uncommon and AKM will be everywhere.

Went to balota on a full server and got a fully kitted M4, engraved 1911 with mags for both, and various survival gear.

Why? Because the M4 is a precision weapon with greater versatility than any other weapon in the game. As such, it deserves to be used in destroying it's nay sayers.

[Wayze 549]

Yup, 15 years as a company and you still spew garbage such as "They made mistakes, like I said, that amateurs make".  Lets see your list of accomplished games.

So, just because SOE has made like 20 games, it means they are perfect at doing so? Not so much mate, that's not how game development works. And no, I will not allow anyone to "spew garbage" over any of my projects, just because of my private opinions. Especially in a forum where people really try to hate each other. No thanks, this account will never be connected to any part of my real life.

 

Why am I even writing this...

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So, just because SOE has made like 20 games, it means they are perfect at doing so? Not so much mate, that's not how game development works. And no, I will not allow anyone to "spew garbage" over any of my projects, just because of my private opinions. Especially in a forum where people really try to hate each other. No thanks, this account will never be connected to any part of my real life.

 

Why am I even writing this...

Buddy, not trying to hate here but when you spew bullshit about a company that's been doing this for 15 years and you have the gall to call them amateur, well, again, let's see your list of accomplishments.  And btw, SOE is a joke.  PS2, longest beta ever.

[scriptfactory 620]

Yeah, I agree. Sure, Dean Hall had a good idea and obviously the right engine to support it. But him as a Game Designer, I don't know how he got there. To me almost every decision seems like made by an amateur. Do they really do that in group discussion? Like, how amateur is that? Do it f*cking properly and get someone who actually knows how Game Design works. The connected server bullcrap, the way how they handle updates, everything seems like they don't know what they are doing. Sure, there are very talented people in the team, but there are others who, atleast that's how I perceive it, are just bad in what they're doing.

I agree and disagree with your post at the same time.

 

Dean Hall is an amateur game designer in the sense that he has no game design experience. He had a decent idea for a video game and tried to implement it the best way he knew how. His lack of experience really shows with some of the decisions he makes but he is trying and has created what I hope will be an amazing game. BIS is a independent game developer with a mixed track record when it comes to developing titles. I loved the original Operation Flashpoint but until they released DayZ I think all of their titles have lacked "fun". Mission support make Arma 2/3 waaaay better. To me this is the strength of the BIS mentality. They know their games are pretty shitty on their own but they want to make sure the community is provided with the tools they need to create an enjoyable experience.

 

The same thing with deathmatch. Right at this point there are so many players who expect the game to be what it is now. They have fun with it. Others do not. But these players will be very disappointed when they turn the game into a proper survival game. Many people just want to go full retard and kill everything on sight, because that's what the game is about at this point. And obviously these players will carry over to the finished product, being disappointed because they cannot do what they always did: Go to the nearest town, find a SKS or Mosin and have some exciting time within a very short amount of time.

 

Well, I am not so sure that even after the "survival" features are added the game will be much more than a engine for community development. Vanilla DayZ will lose its appeal rather quickly as soon as modding support is added. The fact that Dean Hall seems reluctant to provide some kind of structure for the game will "doom" vanilla SA. But this might have been his intention all along. Think "Arma: Apocalypse Survival".

 

Well, hopefully it works out, but the way they are stucturing the game is just ridicilous.

 

They are trying out new things. As far as I know there are NO experienced game designers working on DayZ right now... and that could be both a benefit and a detriment. A benefit because they are more willing to try out new things and listen to player feedback. A detriment because they seem to lack understand of the basics of game design, game theory and they listen to players too often.

[miqueloz 33]

 

He said, they could put AK74 in, but it would be in 7,62x39mm caliber, which would make many people (me included) mad.

 

 

???

 

What? Are you joking? Is this real life?

 

It would "make you mad" if the ammo said 7.62x39mm........... seriously. When the only real difference are four numbers. I'm truly dumbfounded. I can hardly find the words to express my confusion at the mindsets of some people. 

 

Like, seriously. What. Why does it matter what the ammo box says? Maybe you could just pretend it says what you want it to say.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Xant

[Daemonkid 493]

???

 

What? Are you joking? Is this real life?

 

It would "make you mad" if the ammo said 7.62x39mm........... seriously. When the only real difference are four numbers. I'm truly dumbfounded. I can hardly find the words to express my confusion at the mindsets of some people. 

 

Like, seriously. What. Why does it matter what the ammo box says? Maybe you could just pretend it says what you want it to say.

Maybe because that's the caliber it uses.. and it adds another item that you have to search for? Say a building spawns only 4 items. Now the ammo for you gun has a less of a chance of spawning, because the game decides that it's going to spawn a can of soda, a box of pellets, a pair of pants and some 5.56x45. Now, if there is a bloated loot spawn with many different ammo types, and each gun requires it's real ammunition type instead of say generic 7.62 creates the chance that you may not find that ammo in great abundance, because there are many other different ammunition types that can spawn in its place. How is that hard to understand?

[miqueloz 33]

Maybe because that's the caliber it uses.. and it adds another item that you have to search for? Say a building spawns only 4 items. Now the ammo for you gun has a less of a chance of spawning, because the game decides that it's going to spawn a can of soda, a box of pellets, a pair of pants and some 5.56x45. Now, if there is a bloated loot spawn with many different ammo types, and each gun requires it's real ammunition type instead of say generic 7.62 creates the chance that you may not find that ammo in great abundance, because there are many other different ammunition types that can spawn in its place. How is that hard to understand?

That is not hard to understand at all. I, too, would prefer if they added more calibers. But I wouldn't be mad that they didn't. I'd be happy about a new gun. Anything else is a bonus, not something to get mad over. By the same principle, you ought to get mad over not having to collect 10 clothing parts to be able to put together jeans -- it'd add stuff to search for, after all.

 

No, what is hard to understand is that these people would rather not have a new gun at all if there won't be a new caliber. THAT makes absolutely no sense.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Xant

[hells high 676]

I carry it because it looks cool, I haven't needed to defend myself with it yet. :P

[Daemonkid 493]

I carry it because it looks cool, I haven't needed to defend myself with it yet. :P

It does indeed look sexy as hell. I've had to use it to defend myself numerous times and it does an excellent job.

[gibonez 3633]

???

What? Are you joking? Is this real life?

It would "make you mad" if the ammo said 7.62x39mm........... seriously. When the only real difference are four numbers. I'm truly dumbfounded. I can hardly find the words to express my confusion at the mindsets of some people.

Like, seriously. What. Why does it matter what the ammo box says? Maybe you could just pretend it says what you want it to say.

People would be infuriated because of the pedigree thst dayz has.

The mod wad built on a military simulator thst was authentic and realistic.

Meanwhile stand alone is an unrealistic mess whether that is place holder or not that is to be seen.

[Katana67 2907]

No, what is hard to understand is that these people would rather not have a new gun at all if there won't be a new caliber. THAT makes absolutely no sense.

 

Well, I do agree with you somewhat. There is a point at which it doesn't matter, and the "pure realism" folks are far, far, far too "all-or-nothing" and uncompromising in my opinion to be reasonable 90% of the time.

 

But there is indeed merit in asserting that something should be realistic, but it's very seldom done in a way that relates at all to gameplay. People just say "X should be realistic because DayZ values realism," which isn't really all that convincing. But, if I were to say "Adding 5.56x45, 7.62x39, and 5.45x39 would allow the developers to better balance their loot tables separately with regard to NATO/Warsaw Pact assault rifles," I'm integrating a realistic aspect in a way that is framed insofar as it affects gameplay.

 

Problem is, I've yet to see anyone (aside from myself, somewhat condescendingly) successfully even attempt do that. The "realism" folks weigh the merits of DayZ solely on the degree to which it adheres to reality, which doesn't make much sense in my opinion. Most of the arguments I see regarding "realism" generally revolve around two things - subjective "feeling" regarding an aesthetic and a platitude of what DayZ "should be or was in the mod."

 

I'd rather they adhere to "realism" but it ultimately doesn't matter to me, at least to the extent of saying "this game is a mess," if something like the AK-74M fires 5.56x45 (for both realistic reasons, given that the AK-101 is essentially the same thing and is chambered in 5.56x45 NATO and pragmatic reasons, meaning I understand [even if I disagree with it] why the developers are doing X).

Edited May 29, 2014 by Katana67

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I really can't agree with you on this one.

AK-74 or it's newer variants, is the most common rifle in "post soviet" states, hence it should be in game.

Steamlining calibers is just plain wrong....it reminds me of Mass Effect 2 where they ditched concept of specific ammo and when with just one type fits all. It was sci-fi game, but still it felt wrong.

I'm not saying they shouldn't have it. I'm all for having all sorts of calibers and tons of guns, and something like 5.45x39mm seems basic. Its ballistics can be compared to 5.56x45mm, though, so there's no real point in adding it in right now. The AK-74 is definitely one of the most fitting rifles, but it's not something we need right now. I'm not arguing for the devs reasoning for dis-including 5.45x39mm, but there are other guns they can work on that would be just as much fun to play around with.

[slippery gypsy 107]

[barnabus 1708]

The fact this is one of the most prolific, doesn't mean can be in the hands of any farmer in a hard surival pvp game like this.

In the same server, esperimetal with over 20 people, i've found 2 AKM, 1 on Gorka police station and another at Navy Sobor. 1 Magazine, 1 Tactical 8 slot jacket and TTSKO pants

 

People will gear up faster than Schwarzenegger in the movie COMMANDO when he's in the weapon store. And they take and hold a weapon not because of their tastes or because they didn't find anything else, but because they know where to loot and they want the most performing weapon.

 

That's it.

 

 

Now as AKM needs sks bullets, everyone will throw civilians weapons faster than before.

I do not want to complay about changing locations, kind of ammos or else....But just BUFF the other weapons. I've managed 3 shoot to kill a guy with the Blaze by doing an ambush!  (3 hits plus 2 miss)

And I'm sure because AKM has been introduced, as less pistols will be in the inventory of someone, and as less SKS you will see around...

brother, in the 3rd world AK's are EVERYWHERE, including Joe Farmers little grass hut.

[sloasdaylight 129]

AK's are literally everywhere, and in some countries can be bought for like $10. They're like a stamped metal and wood blanket covering most of the world.

[hombrecz 832]

I'm not saying they shouldn't have it. I'm all for having all sorts of calibers and tons of guns, and something like 5.45x39mm seems basic. Its ballistics can be compared to 5.56x45mm, though, so there's no real point in adding it in right now. The AK-74 is definitely one of the most fitting rifles, but it's not something we need right now. I'm not arguing for the devs reasoning for dis-including 5.45x39mm, but there are other guns they can work on that would be just as much fun to play around with.

 

I'm just being affraid, from what Devs said, that they do not consider adding true AK74 5,45x39 at all, which in my opinion, would be very bad decision.

Would really hate to see DayZ having only below for rifles:

7,62x51

7,62x39

5,56x45

.22LR

pellets

 

I would really hate if above was all we would be getting.

After all these hopes for realistic approach and being pampered by DayZ mod in both gun variety and gun handling & shooting mechanics.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I'm just being affraid, from what Devs said, that they do not consider adding true AK74 5,45x39 at all, which in my opinion, would be very bad decision.

Would really hate to see DayZ having only below for rifles:

7,62x51

7,62x39

5,56x45

.22LR

pellets

 

I would really hate if above was all we would be getting.

After all these hopes for realistic approach and being pampered by DayZ mod in both gun variety and gun handling & shooting mechanics.

A while back I posted Torchia's follow up to that, in which he stated that he's not saying "no", just "not right now". They made the model for the AK-74M, I doubt they'll let it go to waste, but that doesn't mean 5.45x39mm is something we need right now.

Besides, he's already considered other calibers like ,410 Gauge and what not, so we won't be stuck with just your list regardless of 5.45x39mm or not.

[hombrecz 832]

A while back I posted Torchia's follow up to that, in which he stated that he's not saying "no", just "not right now". They made the model for the AK-74M, I doubt they'll let it go to waste, but that doesn't mean 5.45x39mm is something we need right now.

Besides, he's already considered other calibers like ,410 Gauge and what not, so we won't be stuck with just your list regardless of 5.45x39mm or not.

 

I kinda know they have AK-74 ready, they even showed it in one of the early SA vids (bunch of guys with AK-74's roaming round appartment blocks near Cherno).

So only thing they would need to do is add one caliber of 5,45x39. Can't see how adding that would create tons of work for devs?

 

All I can see atm is that they are holding introduction of important weapon, which is ready (atlast model is) and is held back only by caliber issue.

I know I might be tad b**ching now, but it really bewilders me.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I kinda know they have AK-74 ready, they even showed it in one of the early SA vids (bunch of guys with AK-74's roaming round appartment blocks near Cherno).

So only thing they would need to do is add one caliber of 5,45x39. Can't see how adding that would create tons of work for devs?

 

All I can see atm is that they are holding introduction of important weapon, which is ready (atlast model is) and is held back only by caliber issue.

I know I might be tad b**ching now, but it really bewilders me.

The early videos were just ports of the Arma 2 AK-74 for testing, not the new model.

[hombrecz 832]

The early videos were just ports of the Arma 2 AK-74 for testing, not the new model.

 

Ok but this indicated, they gave AK-74 a lot of thoughts

 

[Wayze 549]

Buddy, not trying to hate here but when you spew bullshit about a company that's been doing this for 15 years and you have the gall to call them amateur, well, again, let's see your list of accomplishments.  And btw, SOE is a joke.  PS2, longest beta ever.

 

Spew bullsh*t? It's more like you taking this whole thing way to serious and sensitive. I never called them amateurs, so get your arguments right.

And btw, SOE is a joke -> that was my point.

 

They are trying out new things. As far as I know there are NO experienced game designers working on DayZ right now... and that could be both a benefit and a detriment. A benefit because they are more willing to try out new things and listen to player feedback. A detriment because they seem to lack understand of the basics of game design, game theory and they listen to players too often.

I am not nesserarly speaking about expirienced game designers, but more about game designers who have studied game design. You know, it's easy to call yourself a "game designer" just because you have a few ideas. It's a whole other thing to be a good game designer. It's not just "art", it's also very much science involved. There is visual design, level design, gameplay design etc. everything subjects you can study at an university.

 

Just because you studied game design (or have expirience) doesn't mean you would be less creative and open mindend then others. Infact, right now if you study game design, you have to very creative and very unique to even get pass the entry qualification. You are not open minded and willing to try out new things? Well, you better go study history. Actually, many expirienced game designers these thays had never even the chance to study game design. I am very curious how gaming will evolve in the future. You know, when the first movies came out, nobody knew how to make movies. These days people can study each subject matter within movie making. The same happens to games since a few years. Sure, there are many casual movies out there, as there are casual games. But there are also amazing indie games, made by people who had the chance to get to know how to create games.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Wayze