Complete change of the weapons Accesory system

[gibonez 3633]

Since the game has free aim already here is a video to demonstrate it for those who are not in the know.

It is when your gun moves in 3d space in front of you it creates a more realistic feel to guns and closely simulates real life lack of pin point accuracy and would result in more interesting and fun gunfights.

My proposal is to get rid of the unrealistic attachments that affect the weapons accuracy and instead force free aim on everyone then gun accessories such as butt stocks and hand guards reduce the amount of felt free aim.

Meanwhile a weapon with no hand guards or butt stock will have greater free aim.

This would result in two prong fix to some of the games greatest faults.

it would in essence

• Increase realism
• Increase the length of firefights without adding unrealistic artificial barriers on players
• Eliminate the unrealistic accessory system where parts increase or decrease the magical cone of fire
• Present a new gameplay mechanic where it is up to a persons taste what accessory he wants on his weapon there is no better attachment it all comes down to personal choice.
• Could realistically represent shooting pistols without having to resort to insanely unrealistic huge cones of fire.

So what do you think, would forcing free aim and having weapon accessories reduce the free aim instead of decreasing the dispersion be a better game mechanic for dayz or should they stick to the unrealistic cones of fire and dev further into that system.

Edited May 19, 2014 by gibonez

[alexeistukov 272]

Damn good idea

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Change the tile, i thought it had to do with the inventory.

[Snivel 12]

Very nice idea !

They should also make it so when you fire a weapon it does not only have vertical recoil and should move a little in the free aim area, the lighter the weapon the more it moves, it would add another way to simulate carbines etc... being more accurate than pistols.

[xalienax 621]

This combined with Sway based on exhertion and pain from any injuries.

SAY NO TO THE GARBAGE DISPERSION CONES!!

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

Very good idea,it would improve gunplay alot and i would love to see it implemented. :)

[gibonez 3633]

Change the tile, i thought it had to do with the inventory.

How did you assume that?

[DURRHUNTER 597]

How did you assume that?

accessories, like clothing and stuff, change the title to something like 'Free Sway/Gun Aim' or something of that matter

[gibonez 3633]

accessories, like clothing and stuff, change the title to something like 'Free Sway/Gun Aim' or something of that matter

Ic now

[Evil Minion 943]

I liked the system in Red Orchestra and I like this suggestion for DayZ too. I think it would drastically improve the experience and provide some more realistic effects for the currently more questionable attachments (buttstocks and handguards).

 

Might not be enough to discard weapon based dispersion entirely (as barrel length etc. is a factor too - careful aim should still not allow you to snipe people with a pistol over 500m) but might help to reduce it drastically.

[gibonez 3633]

I liked the system in Red Orchestra and I like this suggestion for DayZ too. I think it would drastically improve the experience and provide some more realistic effects for the currently more questionable attachments (buttstocks and handguards).

 

Might not be enough to discard weapon based dispersion entirely (as barrel length etc. is a factor too - careful aim should still not allow you to snipe people with a pistol over 500m) but might help to reduce it drastically.

 

Yup this system will give attachments a purpose while not completely eliminating realism like the current system does.

[Evil Minion 943]

Allright some time has passed and it seems like things have changed a little bit. We got less dispersion, more sway, more weapons and fatigue. Still the attachment system remains and still messes with dispersion values more than anything else (at least thats my impression - you may prove me wrong) even though we got far better parameters even without the OPs proposal.

 

Lets start with the "control parameters" and how they should be handled (in my opinion):

1. Sway depends on the weapons weight (including the magazine) and is also influenced by length and your stance.
2. Recoil depends on the weapons weight (inverse: more weight means less recoil) and the rounds fired.
3. Turn Rate depends on the weapons length and is also influenced by its weight and the your stance (inverse).
4. Dispersion depends on the weapons type (mostly length but also production quality) and its condition.

Now we take a look at weapon attachments and how they could affect the handling:

 

Golden Rule: Everything that does not interfere with the bullets path should not affect dispersion.

 

This means the only weapon attachments currently available that should be able to affect dispersion are the Supressors and the Mosin Compensator. All of the others should mainly affect the other aspects of handling while also adding a little bit of weight (this affecting handling via the above mechanics as well)

• Sights should only affect the way you are aiming by adding zoom, rangefinding tools, better vision, zeroing etc.
• Bipods should reduce sway by a significant amount when lying down.
• Buttstocks should reduce sway and recoil but reduce the turn rate and increase the length of the weapon
  • Folding Buttstocks should provide less sway and recoil reduction but can be folded (which disables all effects but their weight)
  • Weapons with fixed Buttstocks should have the effects of their buttstock included in their basic stats
• Handguards should reduce sway and increase turn rate as well as providing rails for further attachments like bipods or flashlights
• Muzzle attachments should affect sound, recoil, dispersion and maybe turn rate
• Underbarrel attachments and similar ones should just provide their respective utility (light, grenade launcher etc)

So basically every attachment provides a very small reduction in recoil and attachments other than handguards and buttstocks (as well as the bipod then prone) also increase weapon sway. In general weapon attachments should not be plug&play but require a screwdriver to be attached (automatic calibration though).

 

Now including the OPs proposal attachments - especially handguards and buttstocks - could also change gun handling by increasing or decreasing the amount of free aim to give diferent models a different feel as well.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Evil Minion

[King Raptor 191]

I think I get it ...  So you want to remove the "passive" upgrades to the gun's stats and make all attachments be more "active" in the sense that the player notices when one is attached because of the way the gun handles, right?

[Evil Minion 943]

Thats basically the point. If you can feel what an attachment does it feels more authentic and less like being at mercy of the random number god.

For example instead of "Crit Chance +10%, Miss Chance -10%" you got reduced sway you actually notice. It gives you immediate feedback and not some passive bonus you would only notice in the final results.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Somehow I'm extremely shocked that you didn't mention the fact that the LRS is on the Mosin in this thread, so, beans for you.

 

I like this idea more than just random dispersion, although dispersion to an extent is necessary.

[Evil Minion 943]

Lets add an example here: The AKM using a simplified system that doesn't take into account the weight of every attachment but requires a screwdriver to add or remove attachments.

PSO-1 Scope

This one just adds zoom. Good for long range encounters especially with the rangefinder but might end up clunky in close quartes.

 

Plastic Buttstock

The lightest buttstock provides the highest sway reduction but also the lowest recoil reduction.

 

Wooden Buttstock

As a heavier buttstock it offers less sway reduction (still significantly more than without buttstock) but is the best for reducing recoil.

 

Folding Buttstock

In general a little less effective than the wooden buttstock but increases Dexterity (turn rate) and can be folded to reduce the weapon size for less inventory space and even more Dexterity increase (losing at slightly more sway than an AKM without buttstock).

 

Plastic Handguard

Following the pattern above the plastic handguard offers good sway reduction and increases Dexterity because of its lightweight design.

 

Wooden Handguard

Less reduction in sway and no increase in Dexterity but reduces recoil instead.

 

Rail Handguard

Similar to the wooden handguard but with even less sway reduction. In exchange it can attach Bipods, Flashlights etc.

 

30 Round Magazine

Allows for fast reloading and slightly increases sway when attached.

 

Drum Magazine

More capacity allows for higher firepower but comes at the cost of increased sway and less dexterity.

 

Bipod

Increases sway when attached but greatly decreses sway when firing prone.

 

 

Now this allows for multiple viable versions like:

• DMR version (PSO-1 scope, Rail Handguard, Plastic Buttstock, Bipod, 30 round magazine) for long range precision
• LMG version (Rail Handguard, Wooden Buttstock, Bipod, Drum Magazine) for heavy fire support
• Urban version (Plastic Handguard, Folding Buttstock, 30 round magazine) for close combat in and around buildings
• Assault version (Wooden Buttstock, Wooden Handguard, Drum Magazine) for a spray&pray approach at closer distances
• Skirmisher version (Plastic Handguard, Plastic Buttstock, 30 round magazine) as mid-range all-purpose variant
• etc.

instead of having only MMORPG style straight weapon upgrades. This way you not only get better feedback of your attachments but you can balance/customize the attachments to fit your playstyle instead of hunting "the one best piece of gear" for a low profile passive effect you hardly ever notice by itself.

[rybec 339]

Lets add an example here: The AKM using a simplified system that doesn't take into account the weight of every attachment but requires a screwdriver to add or remove attachments.

PSO-1 Scope

This one just adds zoom. Good for long range encounters especially with the rangefinder but might end up clunky in close quartes.

I really like the idea of needing tools to modify a rifle in the game, but I have an issue with the PSO making the rifle "clunky" in close quarters.

The PSO is side mounted. It doesn't obstruct the irons when mounted allowing you to still use them. Other optics that obscure the irons typically have some sort of backup mounted ontop of the optics to allow you to still aim without looking through it.

I'd really like this feature to show up in the game.

[Evil Minion 943]

Expanding on this by taking a closer look at weapons. Instead of making ting overly complcated the current system (ammo, dexterity and dispersion) gets expanded by two additional values:

1. Weight - If a a general weight sytem is to be added the weapons weight would obviously increase the total weight of its user. But aside from that weight should have some additional effects. At first it should increase the base amount of sway. Then it should increase increase fatigue - both in a passive way (going to "out of breath" while holding the weapon in your hands) and in an active way (holding your weapon in aimed position) and the maximum amount of sway gained from it. Those effects should be reduced according to stance (prone is best and standing is worst) as well as almost completely negated by a bipod. The positive effect of weight would be reduced recoil/muzzle rise as the weapon soaks up some of it.
2. Ballistic Factor - Thats how effective the weapon is in firing its ammo. A simple multiplier for both damage and bullet speed longer weapons should have a higher factor than shorter ones. This means a rifle firing the same round as a handgun would cause it to hit a little sooner and deal a little bit more damage. This might also apply to different rifles firing the same ammunition with longer and manually operated guns having higher values than shorter automatic ones. This value should often - but not always* - correlate with dispersion. This value is especially important if cartridges are used by both handguns and rifles (like .22LR or .357 Magnum).

No another issue right now is the prone stance - more exactly that you can spin around on your belly without causing a sound and without my problems. This would give additional power to heavier weapons that can mount a bipod like sniper rifles and machine guns - which might both reduce their chances of being added and their actual enjoyment in game. By restricting the firing/turning arc in prone position to some kind of "extended free aim" they would be much more vulnerable to flanking attacks and the limited firing arc would reward/punish a players positional choices.

 

With the suggested new attachment system and the additions above heavier/more precise weapons become possible without becoming unreasonably powerful. Even without this I am positive those things would create a more interesting and authentic multi-dimensional firearm system with less "useless" weapons and attachments.

 

*For example the Mosin should have a slightly higher ballistic factor than the SVD but the SVD should be more accurate.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Evil Minion