Removal of 3rd person view exploit

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Does this give an advantage to a player in that mode' date=' over someone who is not, yes, is it using an in-game feature to gain "unfair" advantage, no, it would be unfair if only a couple players are able to enter 3rd person, but since everyone on the server is able to do the same, it provides no "extra" to anyone. A player "choosing" not to use it for things like seeing over cover is willingly disadvantaging themselves, they are not "put" into that situation by anyone else.

[/quote']

You know what i'll just save you your precious time and repost it for you.

It is an exploit, objective fact, when used in this way, and when used by people to see into buildings by moving the camera through the door etc, because the person who is not in the position to do this, cannot, regardless of whether they try doing it with third-person.

Head-bob is ridiculously high as the default setting, and provokes nausea, I turn mine down a little as a result. I can run without shaking my head like an invertebrate with cerebral palsy in real life, I cannot however force myself into an outer body experience at will, whilst still having full control over my body. As for peripheral dots, they are equal to all players at all times. This is NOT the case with third person, which some people learn to use as a cheat.

Third person, although available to all, renders some 'more equal than others'.

"Let me use an example to make this very clear to all of you, as you seem incapable of using the incredible ability of the human brain to do what we call 'imagine'.

Allow me to introduce Survivor A, an unassuming but determined fellow, currently running towards wall B, behind which bandit C is crouching. All are using 3rd person, apart from wall B, who is not sentient, but if he were would feel most uncomfortable about his entire predicament, and having spent so many years in Chernarus, would no doubt be an upright bastion of the moral unassailability of '1st-person-only'.

Bandit C, holding the ALT key, is able to see around his socially-deprived person across an entire 360 degrees, including above and beyond the wall, without exposing a single part of his virginal, delicate and well kempt bandit body. Survivor A, also using this feature, just because he can, is also holding the ALT key to gain a 360 view of his surroundings whilst sprinting, just to make sure he isn't being followed by anyone, infected, healthy or wall.

Alas, because of the tiresomely conservative laws of physics, that deny light the ability to curve around corners even in seemingly the most important of situations such as this, Survivor A is unable to see around and beyond these objects in the same way (please don't make me draw diagrams) as Bandit C. Wall B, were he able to comprehend within his grainy, weathered, yet well formed and resilient self would surely be most disapproving of the painful inevitability of the tragedy soon to unfold.

Survivor A passes Wall B and, having been seen and tracked by Bandit C for minutes now, immediately takes 3 high-velocity rounds of 7.62mm full metal jacket in the leg, chest and head, ending his life before even having had time to take in the newly revealed surroundings.

It seems likely that, had Wall B the capacity for consciousness inside his stalwart, Soviet-built, yet ultimately politically indifferent blocks of poured concrete, he would have thought it likely that Bandit C acquired the aforementioned firearm by equally unfair means, and in sheer, Chernarussian rage would have uprooted himself from his aged, moss encrusted base, and crushed Bandit C in a final expression of true, wall-based justice."

[BL1P 252]

@ Psyl3nt

You just about missed the whole point of the post and rambled about nothing that I wrote about.

Nice one.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Your an idiot.

I think you mean to say "You're an idiot."

If you are going to insult someone's intelligence, at least get the basic grammar correct.

Like many of the immature and bitter people on this forum, you result to personal insults when your argument falls flat on it's face. That's ok, I can recognise it, and am therefore not insulted.

Accept your mistake, and move on.

Exploit

verb

Pronunciation: /ɪkˈsplɔɪt, ɛk-/

make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand:

the company was exploiting a legal loophole

The use in gaming is as a noun, but stems from this very same concept.

Advantage - Being in cover

Exploit - Being in cover and using third person to see around it in a supernatural way.

Understand?

[BL1P 252]

Really? That is what you are able to deduce from my post' date=' and driven to suggest?

People like you make me want to offer myself willingly to the Zeds, naked and covered in honey, or whatever their preferred human-dipping sauce is.

[/quote']

I lol'd hard.

It seems that many problems could be solved by not having players be persistent between servers. One character per server.

Yes one char per server would eliminate allot of the problems.

---

:)

Thanks

I wasn't only advocating the MOD-Forced none 3rd only I also suggested that ones character would not be transferable from one type of difficulty server to another.

This to me would remove any one gaining unfair loot and seems like a steady progression from beginner servers to more advanced ones.

No disrespect is meant by the above comment its just how bis created the levels of difficulty Regular begins with 3rd' date=' tags, map markers etc etc

And Expert / Mercenary has all those elements removed.

But quite a few took umbrage at this suggestion :P

[/quote']

I know all the arguments on why people want 3rd on some servers.

Here is why it shouldn't be on in DayZ

It is and can be used as an exploit to see through' date=' over or around objects you should not be able to see through, over or around in a FPS PVP modded game.

Using the 3rd view exploit on one server then coming to a no exploit server with loot gained from an exploit is tantamount to cheating.

To combat the exploits I would suggest one of the two following things.

1: make all DayZ servers one playing type with none of the exploits of 3rd or tags etcetc.

This method makes all servers 1 difficulty setting and would create an even playing field across all severs.

OR

2: Stop the ability to swap from one difficulty server to different difficulty server.

This method would allow players who prefer the 3rd or tags exploits for what ever reasons to continue using 3rd etc but would allow the people who want

untainted loot none exploit servers to have that aswell.

Obviously playing on none 3rd would mean you cannot goto 3rd using servers aswell.

[/quote']

I take 'umbrage' to you claiming that using 3rd person is an exploit, when it is in FACT, a game mechanic.

I also take 'umbrage' to your wild and fanciful claims about mythical players switch between 3rd person and non-3rd person servers just to grab loot and go pwn some nubs....

I'm all for the idea of characters 'built' on a server with a specific difficulty being limited to use on other servers with that same difficulty, but it has NOTHING to do with your 3rd person view = hacking cheater exploiter logic.

At no point was i trying to say that using 3rd alone is an exploit sorry if it came across as such.

I was attempting to get across that using 3rd to exploit is possible and does happen even when the user doesn't realise this.

One of the ways was explained quite eloquently by Callaghan.

If you misunderstood my posts or my terminology led you to misinterpret them, Sorry and i hope this cleared it up for you.

Im glad you agreed with option 2 though I feel all warm now :P

Your title says it now your back tracking and trying to mislead people, and quit acting like you know inside and out of the gaming industry. obviously you haven't herd that the BIS devs say that in ways including the fact you have peripheral vision third person is a lot more realistic then first person. BTW I quote the whole thing I don't go around taking people out of context

Where am I backtracking I still think 3rd can be used to exploit.

I said I have beta tested games and spoken with devs about exploits.I don't claim to know the in and outs of the gaming industry just a working knowledge of some small aspects.

BTW If you prefer walls of quoted text I can do that. not a problem I was just using the segments I was replying to not attempting to twist the context at all. No matter what you think.

[Bo0G 7]

This seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would like to see 2 or 3 clearly delineated difficulties. Easymode allows 3rd, crosshairs, waypoints, etc. on up to Pro which allows none of these. I would like to have characters started in any 1 difficulty be non-transferable to other difficulties.

What is so objectionable about that? The logic of the OP is perfectly sound.

This epeen contest is really pathetic. What is it with the internet attracting middle-aged men who need to feel that they have asserted their superiority over one another? Protip: No matter how impeccable your grammar; regardless how well-formed your sentences; despite the number of qualifications you boast; you are only proving yourself more the fool.

[BL1P 252]

@ BoOg

Whats an epeen ?

[Bo0G 7]

"What's a nubian?"

Stop trolling me Bl1P, or I'll SHOW you an epeen

Obligatory On Topic Subscript: But seriously, restrict 3rd users to their own sad, little, gears-of-war-inspired, world. ;)

[Friend-or-Pho 0]

There are already server side options that the devs have over-ridden, so the way I see it is if they thought 3rd person and corsshairs didn't belong they'd simply force servers to disable them or be blacklisted.

IMO this falls squarely in the realm of server host preference. There is still the option to play entirely on servers that disable these features.

Now I am jumping in without reading all 8 pages, but using 3rd person the way it was intended is not an exploit. If I have missed an example of an exploit, such as the camera clipping through objects allowing you to see through things you shouldn't, then I say go ahead and fix that. However that would most likely be BIS' problem.

But being against 3rd person all together is simply a matter of taste.

[Psyl3nt 125]

Your an idiot.

I think you mean to say "You're an idiot."

If you are going to insult someone's intelligence' date=' at least get the basic grammar correct.

Like many of the immature and bitter people on this forum, you result to personal insults when your argument falls flat on it's face. That's ok, I can recognise it, and am therefore not insulted.

Accept your mistake, and move on.

Exploit

verb

Pronunciation: /ɪkˈsplɔɪt, ɛk-/

make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand:

the company was exploiting a legal loophole

The use in gaming is as a noun, but stems from this very same concept.

Advantage - Being in cover

Exploit - Being in cover and using third person to see around it in a supernatural way.

Understand?

[/quote']

ah yes, pick a typo on a forum (lol), the last defence of the defenceless.

Read my post, when you understand the words get back to me.

I doubt you are even reading them completely as anyone with half a brain would be able to see the difference between an "exploit" and an "advantage".

If you don't like the 3rd person view, don't play on those servers that have it, problem solved.

As I very clearly pointed out, coming from one server that allows it, to one that does not, is not cheating / exploiting, or anything else you wish to falsely put on it.

If you cannot grasp that then there is no hope for you I'm afraid. This argument will become circular and a waste of time.

In the situations you have provided both players are able to enter 3rd person mode, so they both have the same "advantage", one player choosing not to is their own choice and in no way are they the victim of an "exploit", they are a victim of their own stubborn will.

Really, it's like watching two retards trying to fuck a doorknob.....

[Bo0G 7]

If you don't like the 3rd person view' date=' don't play on those servers that have it, problem solved.

[/quote']

No, actually not solved. That is the whole point.

Because the character is persistent, those of us who play higher difficulty/realism settings would like to play with/against others who have had the same advantages/lack of advantages as we have.

No one wants to take away your kiddie playground, we just don't want your silly rubber floor under our 2 story jungle gym. <-Metaphor.

Why don't you get it?

Really' date=' it's like watching two retards trying to fuck a doorknob.....

[/quote']

thefuck?

[duddbudda 33]

>'gahhd understand the words nub!'

>doesn't understand words

>3rd w/ xhair = hard

>1st w/o xhair = easy

>sees target over wall w/ 3rd

>target sees wall w/ or w/o 3rd

>totally fair

>be programmer

>basicly am dev

>ergo win

soylent u so crazy

people need to read the OP again:

the problem isn't that 3rd is an exploit

the problem is 3rd is exploitable

the problem is 3rd, when you know how to exploit it, dramatically reduces the risks of PvP

and, because I woke up at stupid o'clock, here's an example deliniating where an advantage becomes an exploit

a sniper sat on the edge of a thicket has an advantage - he's in camo and has an M107

however, he can be countered by the power of scouting (that's what your binoculars are for)

a sniper proned in the middle of a thicket is exploiting - he literally cannot be seen by anyone not in the thicket with him, and even then it'll be touch and go

EDIT - I suspect 'but then NVGs and thermals are an exploit' will come up

no - NVGs and thermals give an adavantage under a certain circumstance - that advantage can (and aught) be accounted for when making risk assessments

3rd's exploit cannot sanely be accounted for, because every bush, wall, broken car, crest, cow etc could completely obscure a player perfectly sensible of yourself

[TheJustifyx 2]

No. Play hardcore.

[Bo0G 7]

No. Play hardcore.

So, maybe this is your first time to an internet forum. Welcome.

Try to read the actual conversation before you respond. You are obviously just responding to the title and there has been much debate since then.

Thanks.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

I doubt you are even reading them completely as anyone with half a brain would be able to see the difference between an "exploit" and an "advantage".

I very' date=' very clearly just pointed out the difference for your benefit, and alongside the given example provides ample proof for why you are mistaken.

If you can't accept your mistake without resorting to swearing, then I will have to get a moderator involved.

Grow up, and move on.

[hr']

In the situations you have provided both players are able to enter 3rd person mode' date=' so they both have the same "advantage", one player choosing not to is their own choice and in no way are they the victim of an "exploit", they are a victim of their own stubborn will.

[/quote']

Again, you have failed to grasp a very simple point. You need to calm down, think about the given example, and then think some more, because clearly you struggle with basic physics, and the concept of exploitation vs advantage.

Both players in 3rd person. Now take a deep breath, and utilise every brain cell that evolution has generously graced you with to comprehend the following, this time without the story, so as to not strain the few working neurons that your genes have provided you with:

Being in cover - advantage, not being in cover - disadvantage.

Being in cover and using third person to see the surroundings without exposing any part of your body, while your opponent very clearly does not have the same ability, due to the simple fact that light travels reflected from an object in a straight line, and would in fact require x-ray vision in order to have the same advantage. - exploit.

Really, very simple stuff. My patience amazes me sometimes.

[NoobieCarebear 0]

This whole exploit thing is crap and unfounded, I play 3ps all the time and if I want to see around a corner I have to move into a position that lets me see around that corner, if I'm on a roof and I want to see over the edge I have to look over that edge and expose my head and shoulders just like I would if I was in Fps mode.

Why because the camera sit behind me slightly back about a metre/1 yard appropriately, and where my head looks that is where the camera looks, it does not swing on a pivot and show the side of my face or even the front it always shows the back of the head, the same Fov as a fps player only diff in fps there is no 3d model of my avatar.

So to those who play fps view and feel that 3ps view players have an advantage over you, it's because they do, you have not learnt to use the video options properly and set up your Fov up, your also not using the numbered view keys on the number pad properly, yes the ones that are next to the dreaded number pad enter key which makes you go into 3ps mode or not.

So please stop making mountains out of mole hills in a vain atempt to make it look like you have a point to argue.

For all those wanna’be hardcore elitist you should check out this suggestion thread; http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=19910

[7-75 callaghan 43]

>'gahhd understand the words nub!'

>doesn't understand words

>3rd w/ xhair = hard

>1st w/o xhair = easy

>sees target over wall w/ 3rd

>target sees wall w/ or w/o 3rd

>totally fair

>be programmer

>basicly am dev

>ergo win

soylent u so crazy

people need to read the OP again:

the problem isn't that 3rd is an exploit

the problem is 3rd is exploitable

the problem is 3rd' date=' when you know how to exploit it, dramatically reduces the risks of PvP

and, because I woke up at stupid o'clock, here's an example deliniating where an advantage becomes an exploit

a sniper sat on the edge of a thicket has an advantage - he's in camo and has an M107

however, he can be countered by the power of scouting (that's what your binoculars are for)

a sniper proned in the middle of a thicket is exploiting - he literally cannot be seen by anyone not in the thicket with him, and even then it'll be touch and go

EDIT - I suspect 'but then NVGs and thermals are an exploit' will come up

no - NVGs and thermals give an adavantage under a certain circumstance - that advantage can (and aught) be accounted for when making risk assessments

3rd's exploit cannot sanely be accounted for, because [i']every bush, wall, broken car, crest, cow etc could completely obscure a player perfectly sensible of yourself

Haha, i'm glad you see it as clearly as I do. This 'programmer' guy is ridiculous.

---

This whole exploit thing is crap and unfounded' date=' I play 3ps all the time and if I want to see around a corner I have to move into a position that lets me see around that corner, if I'm on a roof and I want to see over the edge I have to look over that edge and expose my head and shoulders just like I would if I was in Fps mode.

Why because the camera sit behind me slightly back about a metre/1 yard appropriately, and where my head looks that is where the camera looks, it does not swing on a pivot and show the side of my face or even the front it always shows the back of the head, the same Fov as a fps player only diff in fps there is no 3d model of my avatar.

So to those who play fps view and feel that 3ps view players have an advantage over you, it's because they do, you have not learnt to use the video options properly and set up your Fov up, your also not using the numbered view keys on the number pad properly, yes the ones that are next to the dreaded number pad enter key which makes you go into 3ps mode or not.

So please stop making mountains out of mole hills in a vain atempt to make it look like you have a point to argue.

For all those wanna’be hardcore elitist you should check out this suggestion thread; http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=19910

[/quote']

Read the previous posts please, this is very tiresome. If you are in third person, and know how to exploit it, it can be used as one, giving you an unfair advantage over other players REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY ARE IN 1ST OR 3RD PERSON. *shakes violently and slaps, then breaks down into tears over the level of intelligence of these people* Jesus Christ, this is basic stuff people! Hang on a mo - with a name like 'NoobieCarebare', do you even know what freelook is?

[NoobieCarebear 0]

The solution is still simple, if you want the other player/s to not have this exploit that you claim exists, DON'T PLAY ON A 3PS SERVERS stick to only FPS servers, it's as simple as that.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

The solution is still simple' date=' if you want the other player/s to not have this exploit that you claim exists, DON'T PLAY ON A 3PS SERVERS stick to only FPS servers, it's as simple as that.

[/quote']

I think i'm going to be sick.

Forget the zombie apocalypse, we're f*cked as it is.

[Cormac McCarthy 15]

The solution is still simple' date=' if you want the other player/s to not have this exploit that you claim exists, DON'T PLAY ON A 3PS SERVERS stick to only FPS servers, it's as simple as that.

[/quote']

I think i'm going to be sick.

Forget the zombie apocalypse, we're f*cked as it is.

it took you this long to realize that.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

The solution is still simple' date=' if you want the other player/s to not have this exploit that you claim exists, DON'T PLAY ON A 3PS SERVERS stick to only FPS servers, it's as simple as that.

[/quote']

I think i'm going to be sick.

Forget the zombie apocalypse, we're f*cked as it is.

it took you this long to realize that.

Lol. Yes, and i'll try again tomorrow. I hate being an optimist.

[dystopeon 46]

interesting idea about not being able to switch difficulty between servers. However you forget that server-switching for loot is a design element that increases server slot availabilty.

The devs will never remove 3rd person entirely. 3rd person playstyle is a major reason for the popularity of this mod, slowly tempting WoW (&WoWclone) players back to tactical gaming. Good job chaps @ Bohemia :) - I'm sure something will be done about this when the game goes commercial. Then you guys will bitch about "the good 'ol Alpha Dayz..."

[NoobieCarebear 0]

>'gahhd understand the words nub!'

>doesn't understand words

>3rd w/ xhair = hard

>1st w/o xhair = easy

>sees target over wall w/ 3rd

>target sees wall w/ or w/o 3rd

>totally fair

>be programmer

>basicly am dev

>ergo win

soylent u so crazy

people need to read the OP again:

the problem isn't that 3rd is an exploit

the problem is 3rd is exploitable

the problem is 3rd' date=' when you know how to exploit it, dramatically reduces the risks of PvP

and, because I woke up at stupid o'clock, here's an example deliniating where an advantage becomes an exploit

a sniper sat on the edge of a thicket has an advantage - he's in camo and has an M107

however, he can be countered by the power of scouting (that's what your binoculars are for)

a sniper proned in the middle of a thicket is exploiting - he literally cannot be seen by anyone not in the thicket with him, and even then it'll be touch and go

EDIT - I suspect 'but then NVGs and thermals are an exploit' will come up

no - NVGs and thermals give an adavantage under a certain circumstance - that advantage can (and aught) be accounted for when making risk assessments

3rd's exploit cannot sanely be accounted for, because [i']every bush, wall, broken car, crest, cow etc could completely obscure a player perfectly sensible of yourself

Haha, i'm glad you see it as clearly as I do. This 'programmer' guy is ridiculous.

---

This whole exploit thing is crap and unfounded' date=' I play 3ps all the time and if I want to see around a corner I have to move into a position that lets me see around that corner, if I'm on a roof and I want to see over the edge I have to look over that edge and expose my head and shoulders just like I would if I was in Fps mode.

Why because the camera sit behind me slightly back about a metre/1 yard appropriately, and where my head looks that is where the camera looks, it does not swing on a pivot and show the side of my face or even the front it always shows the back of the head, the same Fov as a fps player only diff in fps there is no 3d model of my avatar.

So to those who play fps view and feel that 3ps view players have an advantage over you, it's because they do, you have not learnt to use the video options properly and set up your Fov up, your also not using the numbered view keys on the number pad properly, yes the ones that are next to the dreaded number pad enter key which makes you go into 3ps mode or not.

So please stop making mountains out of mole hills in a vain atempt to make it look like you have a point to argue.

For all those wanna’be hardcore elitist you should check out this suggestion thread; http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=19910

[/quote']

Read the previous posts please, this is very tiresome. If you are in third person, and know how to exploit it, it can be used as one, giving you an unfair advantage over other players REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY ARE IN 1ST OR 3RD PERSON. *shakes violently and slaps, then breaks down into tears over the level of intelligence of these people* Jesus Christ, this is basic stuff people! Hang on a mo - with a name like 'NoobieCarebare', do you even know what freelook is?

Lol that's funny, shows me the only part of my post you read was my name and you expect me to go back and read all your other posts, I did I read them last nite when they were in the general discussion forum posted by Direwind and got closed off by a mod who told you lot to go and play on a FPS server.

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=22728

As for this tainted gear bull, the only players who are doing this, if this is a real problem at all, are players who are coming from FPS servers to 3PS servers and then going back, how about you FPS players deal with your own corrupt players on your server and leave our 3PS servers alone, since we don't have that problem.

"shakes violently and slaps, then breaks down into tears over the level of intelligence of these people* Jesus Christ, this is basic stuff people!" Again funny that's how we feel about you lot and your arguments.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Lol that's funny' date=' shows me the only part of my post you read was my name and you expect me to go back and read all your other posts, I did I read them last nite when they were in the general discussion forum posted by Direwind and got closed off by a mod who told you lot to go and play on a FPS server.

[/quote']

Must you really quote the entire post?

I read everything you said, and I disagree with that moderator as strongly as I do with you. Just because he is a mod, doesn't mean he knows anything about the game.

I have been editing this series as well as making missions and scripts since the original Operation Flashpoint in 2001, and am confident enough in what I am saying to stand my ground, with or without moderator support.

You on the other hand, 'don't know your arse from your elbow', as we say over here, when it comes to this game. So stop arguing for the sake of it, and maybe you'll learn something.

[NoobieCarebear 0]

Lol that's funny' date=' shows me the only part of my post you read was my name and you expect me to go back and read all your other posts, I did I read them last nite when they were in the general discussion forum posted by Direwind and got closed off by a mod who told you lot to go and play on a FPS server.

[/quote']

Must you really quote the entire post?

I read everything you said, and I disagree with that moderator as strongly as I do with you. Just because he is a mod, doesn't mean he knows anything about the game.

I have been editing this series as well as making missions and scripts since the original Operation Flashpoint in 2001, and am confident enough in what I am saying to stand my ground, with or without moderator support.

You on the other hand, 'don't know your arse from your elbow', as we say over here, when it comes to this game. So stop arguing for the sake of it, and maybe you'll learn something.

Arrogance much?

[edonovan 15]

Why is it nobody ever suggests removing first person view? IMO, it is incredibly unrealistic. Or does decreasing peripheral vision and positional awareness somehow make the game more realistic?

If you think it's so OP and still refuse to use it, that is your problem. Making a game harder through poor mechanics and interface is never a solution.