Problems with the Morality System

[-A2L-Jono 1]

I am a Bandit in game and have turned into one through pure self defense. Now every time I go to try and help others they kill me for being a bandit. The new system makes the survivors think their goal is to kill bandits. I became one accidentally and keep getting killed because of it. There needs to be some changes to the system.

[Viri (DayZ) 1]

Completely agreed. As it is now, there's no point to it being in-game, if anything it just promotes more player killing.

[Samsquanch (DayZ) 8]

The only way around not taking a hit to morality [currently], is to take a bullet from the aggressor, then kill them within 3 minutes I believe. Unfortunately, almost all shots are lethal from guns.

I've been shot at so many times, but the fear of ruining my character, and ultimately being an asset to the guys I play with prevents me from retaliation.

[cyrus231 2]

I think rocket was right for not having it in the first place. It just sucks more for the good guys.

[Upchuk55 0]

Yeah, ive gotten glitched myself. I killed two players total, the second being self defence against a group of 3, after which when i respawned my morality was at -31000. So now apparently after killing 2 people, i became Chernarus' new "Super Hitler". This has greatly hampered my ability to survive ingame(and has gotten me shot by my teammates twice already)

[griffinz 2816]

The model-change was a compromise for the many complaints DayZ received for "being unable to know who are PKers".

I, myself, do not know why the value subtracted from humanity when you kill someone is so high. All I can say is, while you have the bandit model, you need to identify the disadvantages you now have, and work around them :)

[chaostactical 4]

bandits within a group can do the dirty work, since they are already bandits, for their said group...kinda like the enforces, in our case the trade district guards, and the foragers.

+1 for that griff.

[alienfreak 6]

The model-change was a compromise for the many complaints DayZ received for "being unable to know who are PKers".

I' date=' myself, do not know why the value subtracted from humanity when you kill someone is so high. All I can say is, while you have the bandit model, you need to identify the disadvantages you now have, and work around them :)

[/quote']

Yeah I killed one guy shooting at others and went bandit.

And well... now everyone shoots at me so I can as well just shoot anyone I meet ;)

[griffinz 2816]

The model-change was a compromise for the many complaints DayZ received for "being unable to know who are PKers".

I' date=' myself, do not know why the value subtracted from humanity when you kill someone is so high. All I can say is, while you have the bandit model, you need to identify the disadvantages you now have, and work around them :)

[/quote']

Yeah I killed one guy shooting at others and went bandit.

And well... now everyone shoots at me so I can as well just shoot anyone I meet ;)

To be honest with you, I am thinking about joining the darkside! Looks fun ;)

[alienfreak 6]

The model-change was a compromise for the many complaints DayZ received for "being unable to know who are PKers".

I' date=' myself, do not know why the value subtracted from humanity when you kill someone is so high. All I can say is, while you have the bandit model, you need to identify the disadvantages you now have, and work around them :)

[/quote']

Yeah I killed one guy shooting at others and went bandit.

And well... now everyone shoots at me so I can as well just shoot anyone I meet ;)

To be honest with you, I am thinking about joining the darkside! Looks fun ;)

At least I not get mad for getting backstabbed anymore. Because if you hunt people is only fair if they try to get you.

[griffinz 2816]

hahahaha I like your logic

[Baldr 0]

The problem with the humanity system is that it badly detects self-defense (yeah, I know, can't really be fixed), and it offers no real way to stop being a bandit. Yeah, you can use medical supplies on other people, but the humanity gain is very small in comparison to the huge hit from killing others. This feature is broken at best. Rocket said something about limiting bandits from character progression, but other than that there's no real reason to not be a bandit right now.

[Panzerfaust (DayZ) 5]

Agreeing that the morality system needs serious tweaks. You shouldn't have to wait to be shot first, which is complete suicide if your assailant is using anything bigger than a handgun. If it were up to me, I'd remove it completely. In a similar situation in real life, you most likely wouldn't be able to tell if someone is a sadistic murderer just from looking at them.

I think any future stat/character progression penalties imposed by the game itself as a result of shooting people should be out of the question. Shooting at survivors is a double edged sword and has enough repercussions of its own as it is.

I feel that the beauty of this mod is its lack of "gaminess", iron out the bugs, add a few more items, things of that nature, and leave it as-is: a hardcore Infected apocalypse survival simulator without very many gamey RPG elements to it is how I would do things. However, it is the developer's game and they're free to do with it as they please, this is just my opinion.

Back to the specific issue this thread addresses, I can see why the morality system is needed in some people's eyes. However, as it is it's completely broken and needs to be reworked, but coming up with a viable solution is going to take some serious brainstorming. Fire away!

[puppetmasterjjk 3]

Even if the humanity system wasn't so bugged, or it had perfect self-defense detection, it would still simply be creating a PvP faction, and make even more people want to go around killing each-other - as you can see displayed in this thread.

[oktyabr 53]

On suggestion that has been made elsewhere (more than once) is to increase the variety of banditness! You have your non-bandit skin(s), the common bandit (most wish they were not), the guy collecting human ears for his necklace or whatever, and at the very deep end of the negative humanity scale (your PK for sport types) you can give them a bright orange jumpsuit, as if they are escaped convicts. As Ratszo suggested in another thread you could maybe even give them flashing ankle bracelets ;)

[-A2L-Jono 1]

I agree the system adds a PvP faction and has increased PvP

[martinregistrierungen@arcor.de 1]

Sure.. how many ppl u killed by "defensing yourself" more than 4 i think... wow ;)

Im one of these surivvors who kills all looking like a bandit. today i killed 2 bandits by following them into the wood and their reaction via chat shows me that it was the right way :

"now i will kill other to get back my equip. "losing all my stuff by pvp is stupid, everyone i see gets shoot down now"

ehm.. yeah - a bandit ^^

[Viri (DayZ) 1]

I've posted in many threads with this topic, and while I was a huge supporter of the system prior to it being implemented, I now think it's a terrible decision, and should be removed.

The first issue is that, now that there are two different skins, they are grouped into two different stereotypes, or at least, the bandits are stereotyped. You don't know the Bandit's story. You don't know if he had to defend himself, you don't know if it was an accident, friendly fire happens (It has happened in my group more than once). So there are potentially, legitimately good, nice survivors getting hunted down by the "regular" survivors, who group all of the bandits together, and label them as malicious "player killers".

In this situation, Who are the real player killers? Not the bandits, it seems. At least not all of them. It's all still as grey as it was before the humanity update; a Bandit could be anyone, just as a survivor. They both could be a malicious killer, or very friendly. Only now, everyone goes off of the bandit stereotype and automatically assumes the worst of them. Why would you only assume the worst of bandits, and not everyone? You don't know if that "Survivor" has killed people maliciously in the past, or not, you could very well be his next victim.

I think there are some workarounds the improve the system as a whole, but in general I feel that it should be removed, all it has done now is confuse people, and promote PvP even more, is that what this community really wants?

Im one of these surivvors who kills all looking like a bandit.

You aren't any better than a true player killer; someone who stalks on others, killing them for their own enjoyment. Their reaction was understandable, and natural after being killed by a player. Almost anyone would probably same the same thing in the midst of anger and frustration they were feeling due to losing ALL of their gear because of some malicious player killer.

Of course I could be wrong, they could have preyed on many before you killed them. We simply don't know, but whether they had a different skin or not didn't really matter in that regard.

I'm not even a Bandit, but I will be eventually due to defending myself. It's just depressing to know that I'll probably have to kill many players that instigate fights with me, despite being a friendly, helping person.

[abysmal 2]

I absolutely agree with Viri.

I think the main problem with the current morality system is that increasing your humanity becomes even HARDER once you become a bandit. Survivors who kill bandits on sight make it harder for one to administer a blood transfusion, not to mention acquire that blood in the first place. At the very least, the morality system should be designed to facilitate 'redemption' rather than concentrate humanity in the hands of those who don't need it, and have literally no benefit from it.

[donziboy2 1]

It would be nice if bandits lost the ability to talk on side chat with the survivors since they can basically see if someone is calling for help in there area....

[puppetmasterjjk 3]

Or, better yet, disable all chat that isn't direct until people find radios.

[Freyar 8]

It would be nice if bandits lost the ability to talk on side chat with the survivors since they can basically see if someone is calling for help in there area....

Should be an area chat to begin with unless there's a radio (as suggested.)

If there are to be "bandits", survivors really have no reason to be "safe" from them. New, Old, Well Stocked, Poorly Stocked. A single bullet can make all the difference and playing carefully can typically end up with you winning the contest.

[jordnz 102]

Yeah, I killed one player who wouldn't respond to my questions on whether he was friendly or not (later was told Direct Comms isn't working) and instantly become a bandit. Killed someone else and lost like 2000 morality. Seems I lose that much whenever I kill someone else regardless of the fact that they may shoot first and whatnot. Not Very fair, haha.

[Freyar 8]

Yeah' date=' I killed one player who wouldn't respond to my questions on whether he was friendly or not (later was told Direct Comms isn't working) and instantly become a bandit. Killed someone else and lost like 2000 morality. Seems I lose that much whenever I kill someone else regardless of the fact that they may shoot first and whatnot. Not Very fair, haha.

[/quote']

If I understand right, it was just implemented, so it'll improve over time. As it is now, I think it's best if people stop using it to judge people. (Sure, I am very aggressive, won't deny that, but for those that truly are only working with self-defense, it's probably for the best to assume less.)

[zxcvbn_ 3]

I have changed my opinion.

I will shoot anyone and everyone on sight.