"Hey, I know you!"

[HardTarget 27]

As a forewarning, this is an idea regarding player identity/identifying fellow/enemy players, in which I've been trying to work the mechanics out on it. Also: If you're the lazy type, I always put a TL: DR at the end, but I suggest reading it all through if you intend to comment.

A bit of talk has been had regarding servers which have enabled the current default Arma identification system (That hover-over mouse that says "HI MY NAME IS"), and a good deal find it fairly exploitable, while others want it as a means to tell who is who.

My personal opinion is, indeed, that the biggest exploit of "tree-line scanning" (I.E. Using it to scan an area to try and pick out a name) is definately a reason it shouldn't exist, but I don't feel we need to punish everyone to having to use other means to identify people, just because of a system. If the system or mechanic is bad, replace it, rather than erase it. So, how would we make an ingame option that allows you to notice who's who in DayZ?

Note: I'm aware there are threads on this issue, but I feel as this is an idea that (AFAIK) is unique, I gave it it's own thread. If a Mod prefers I merge it with a different topic, just give me a heads-up

The Idea:

Instead of a "hitscan OH HAI I'M " system, I think a more practical method would be to name other players, yourself. "Wait, what?!" you may ask, and allow me to explain in detail. Let's say, you happen to see some person, running about, in a city. Let's say Cherno, if for whatever reason you dared to go near that place. You look at him, and as you watch over him, you go to the scroll menu, and a nice little action comes up, stated "Name Individual". You go, you click it, and a little chatbox menu comes up where you type in a name. YOU name it, based upon how you want to figure the person/remember them. You can call them anything arbitrary if you wish, be it something simple as "noob" or "that moron in Cherno", or you could be especially creative and utilize cursing in manners I won't use on this forum, but YOU name that person. Each time you see that character, now you have the name YOU gave him, rather than just their normal character name. This gives you a way of identifying players, without some arbitrary means of magically knowing their name, while still accepting that, "This is a game, and a lot of life's subtleties are left out" (such as actual face details, or other features to tell by).

This makes it a bit interesting, and a way of recalling players. Say after you named this guy running through Cherno as "Zombie Pulling Dolt", after seeing him draw a horde, and you go into Cherno, you see this man again. You see his name as what you named him prior, or "Zombie Pulling Dolt", and realise "Oh, that's the idiot who dragged that horde with him". You take that knowledge of what you saw them do, and how you personally remember them to make a decision on how you act with that person. Obviously, if he drew a crowd, you likely don't want to get near him, or if you're the other kind, give him a small bullet in his cranium for his troubles. With prior player knowledge on how other's acted, you can act more accordingly.

Story time, if you're a TL: DR'er, skip this part to the "Mechanics" section.

More importantly, however, is the fact that this can, over time, be changed/lost. Let's say you meet someone sneaking at Stary, and labeled them "Suspicious Stary Stalker", or for something easier, "Stealther01". You later run into that person, again, but you managed to sneak up on him. You recall he was very weary and careful about the zombies, and had attracted practically nothing. Obviously this person is far more skilled in stealth than the average joe survivor, so you think "is he in a group? Could I ask him to join up with me?". You decide (going against the current consensus of "Shoot him" offhand), since you're behind him without his knowledge, to tell him to remain still or you'll blast his head in. He freezes, and surprisingly he's not a jerk-off who DC's on first sign of danger. He says "I'm just looking for morphine, my legs broke", and you realise the whole time he's been crawling about was from lack of functional legs. You decide to let him be, you'd rather not risk losing your hide to try and help, but you'd rather not get blasted in the back either. You head off after dumping a single morphine in his bag and notifying him, but without you knowing, he turned around, and he makes a mark on you, before healing himself. He's marked you as "Friendly" on name. Later on, you end up pulling a horde that was only 5, but found to be 20 by the end of it. "Stealther01" happens to pop up on your screen, and you figure you're boned now, but the zombies begin dropping as he fires, instead of you. He comes up, thanks you for the prior morphine in his bag, and heads on his way. You change his name to "Nice guy from Stary", and later on, if you ever meet again, you can recall he's not a jerk.

Also, this works for the un-named. Say, from the prior story of the Cherno hoard-attracter, you find someone you HAVEN'T named, and you're face to face. You don't know this person, you have no way of telling their intentions, so you waste them. You or them, right? Or maybe you're off in the NWAF, and if you've been in a group, you probably know the times you screamed over some sort of third-party VoIP "IS THAT YOU?!", you don't see a name, it isn't one of your friends you already know.

Suddenly, there's a way to make notes on the events, and the people in them, while not magically knowing their name. You make the nickname for them, and it leaves it up to more than just "I have to shoot everyone because I don't know who is who".

Mechanics:

So how does this handle in a game sense? Obviously as little on the servers if possible, so my idea is make it purely clientside. Your own computer memorizes the data based upon character ID's, and when it gets info on a character from the server, it compares it to it's own database. That way, it's as little data from the server as possible.

Note: When I say "database", I mean in comparison like an SQL or .dat file which is located on your own drive, in your own Arma directory, that saves an ID and a name you put to that ID. Each time the indicator ingame gives you an ID handed by the server, your client will check if that ID is in the local client database. If it is, then it pulls the name itself, reducing as much as possible on any server stress.

The question now is the cases of "what if's". "What if I die? Do I remember them? What if they die?", and this is really up to the playerbase, and more importantly, Rocket (if he decides this is worth a damn), how to do it.

The first part is, if you die. Do you recall? Do you not? My vote is for no, you forget EVERYONE you formerly knew on your last character, because your new one should have no ties to your former. Of course, this is debatable, and I leave that up to you all to think through, and obviously you can easily re-find teamspeak/vent/mumble friends to re-mark them.

Second, what if someone you remember dies? And this is where it gets a bit tricky. Yes, we have a lot of people who do die now, so if you name someone, only for later them to be shortly killed (and your memory of him/her wiped), it could prove useless over the long run. I think, that if you name someone, it should tie (for your end, clientside) to their Arma ID, and that you will remember whatever title you gave them, until you yourself die. A way to make notes of people, without it vanishing, especially if you end up killing THEM. You can see them come up later, and recall "oh, I had a former firefight with this guy because of , I don't want to be anywhere near him", or maybe you're just the type to shoot him again. For whatever reason. The only thing promoted by this is by surviving longer, especially from interactions with other people, or at the least by observing their behaviors.

Exploits/Ways to Prevent Exploitation:

"How does this fix the exploits?!" and it doesn't. The next part does: It's unusable unless you can clearly see the Head/Upper Body of the player. How that would be coded, I'm not sure, maybe by a pixel image check or something regarding the hitscan of the current identification mechanic. But, the major reason for it is this: You would have to clearly see the upper body or head, so that you can't just weave through trees or areas and see a name pop up. Not only do you have to name someone yourself with a name you chose first-most, you have to see them at least clearly enough to see that part of them, making it far harder to exploit. You see a pair of legs in a tree? No luck, you don't know who's legs those belong to, and suddenly you're tensed, only to ask your buddy over TS and find out that was him as he turns around. It has to revolve around the most notifiable parts of the human physique as with real life, which is the upper body structure, and importantly, the head/face of a person.

This way, it's not a simple "tree-line scanner", which just pops up a name, or gives you an action to make a name without making sure you can actually SEE them, before allowing you to mark it. However, the above LoS/Check mechanic may be too hard to code, so what else? Maybe add in a distance you can mark? 500m? 600m? Maybe a low sadistic 300m or less? No idea, the numbers can be tweaked though. Anything to prevent it from being used to see someone when you SHOULDN'T be able to tell what you're looking at. Maybe even a "button spam preventer", where the action is always there, and if you spam it too much you can't use it for a long duration, so that it doesn't just come up when you see someone, and if you don't get a marker from randomly clicking a few times, you got to wait before abusing it.

You got a better mechanic to prevent an exploit for it? Tell me! I'd love to hear how, it would make it a far more viable option.

Addition 1, Hoik's Suggestion (edited by Hard): Before seeing a name of a player you've formerly marked, you must keep your vision focused (hitscan their model) on the individual for 5-10s. Helps prevent "scanning" or seeing them when you shouldn't. Possible backdraw - Won't know who you're aiming at if you end up face-to-face suddenly with someone, however if that happens, the custom player face may be a give-away.

Addition 2, General Concensus (Distancer): You must be within a certain viable range to identify individuals (seems the thought is around 300m). May be extendable if using a scope or binoculars.

Addition 3, Callaghan (No Extra Junk): As far as my memory goes, modding the Arma2 recognition and using it on servers should not add in any of the other settings people may dislike (3rd person, crosshairs, etc). However, it may be tied into Recruit mode, and those other server settings. If it is, the indicator should be hand-crafted to prevent it from becoming an issue/forcing in extra settings people may not want.

Addition 4, Orosian (visibility factors): Factors, such as how bright it is ingame/current time of day (dawn, dusk, midday vs night), weather effects (fog, rain, etc), and distance affect how quickly you can recognize someone you've seen before (Utilizing the current visibility system already in-place for DayZ). The more factors that would degrade your vision/the lower the visibility of the person you're looking at, the longer it takes (+1/2s per factor/ -1 or 2 for each additional visibility bar on target) before you see the nickname you marked someone with.

In Closing:

So you find someone, and you can name them a nickname of your chosing (whatever you chose), so long as you yourself can clearly see them (or managed to click them without the lock-out prevention). This allows you to identify players, and to know of who might be who, who may be in a group (if you saw a pair/bunch together), who to avoid and who to trust, without some arbitrary identifier, and without meta-gaming it 24/7, while preventing exploitation. I hope it'll be a helpful tool, and some of the exploit prevention mechanics will prevent it from becoming a "tree-line scanner", but that's to be found out.

TL: DR -

You name a person a nickname you chose, if you can actually manage to see them, and from then on-out, it comes up so long as you can see them. Allows for identification, and to prevent exploitation, which the current identification mechanic can be exploited.

Thoughts/Comments/Actual Constructive Criticism? Leave something below!

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

This is by far one of the most in-depth suggestion I have read and the best part is that I think this is more than possible to be implemented in the game. Five stars +1 and an extra +1 for the story aspect good job comrade.

[Techercizer 82]

...Fuck.

Yes. Sticky this thread or some shit. Put it on T-shirts. Shoot it into the walls of Cherno with an anti-materiel rifle. I want this seen, because it should be in the game at some point in the future.

I am sigging this thread over my own.

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

I think the only reason why people aren't reading this is because its too long or the title is unappealing because this deserves recognition and if it doesn't receive more views or replies I'm gonna bump the hell out of this thread.

[Bo0G 7]

In theory, it sounds good. So long as it couldn't be used to 'scan', I'd be into this.

Any way to simulate recognition would be nice. Maybe as a standalone, DayZ can implement highly customizable characters to this end.

[Vipeax 318]

There are a few issues with this suggestion that still allow abuse. Say you marked someone as "GUYHAZTODIE" and you see this black spot in a set of trash and you aim at it and it appears to be that guy. What I'm trying to say is that tags like these allow you to recognize someone as human while you'd never know without the marking. It still makes it easier, but the idea behind it seems nice. Something that currently can't be implemented (mod limits), but will certainly have a word about it in the future.

Bookmarked.

[matt.gilmurray@gmail.com 46]

There are a few issues with this suggestion that still allow abuse. Say you marked someone as "GUYHAZTODIE" and you see this black spot in a set of trash and you aim at it and it appears to be that guy. What I'm trying to say is that tags like these allow you to recognize someone as human while you'd never know without the marking. It still makes it easier' date=' but the idea behind it seems nice. Something that currently can't be implemented (mod limits), but will certainly have a word about it in the future.

Bookmarked.

[/quote']

It definitely deserves a test run in my opinion but what do I know I'm just a standard player trying to make ends beans.:)

[HardTarget 27]

There are a few issues with this suggestion that still allow abuse. Say you marked someone as "GUYHAZTODIE" and you see this black spot in a set of trash and you aim at it and it appears to be that guy. What I'm trying to say is that tags like these allow you to recognize someone as human while you'd never know without the marking. It still makes it easier' date=' but the idea behind it seems nice. Something that currently can't be implemented (mod limits), but will certainly have a word about it in the future.

Bookmarked.

[/quote']

Those are the exact issues I hope that we (ourselves) can minimize/reduce as much as possible. While exploitation will always exist, reducing it, minimizing the impact is the key. Got any ideas regarding prevention of that particular case? I think perhaps if it's the pixel analyzer method of exploit reduction, the light level (dark black vs, well, dark black) will make it particularly difficult for in your case to be abused in that case. Maybe light levels around individuals (sparing if you have NVG's?) models in comparison to prevent it? Again, it should all be client-side as to prevent server overload.

As for the idea, I'm certain it can be implimented if worked around with the current, already apparent recognition system, but who knows. I didn't make Arma code, after all, BIS did.

And for Mattgil and Tech, thanks for the support, I still want to make sure a fair amount (if not most) of the potential exploits forum lurkers can think of can be addressed however. I'm certain someone will think up a scenario I didn't, such as Vipeax pointed out. The more it's talked about, the more refined it can become.

[Howler 12]

I like it. Similar to how you view other friendly units in vanilla arma 2?

Although it's a tad unrealistic. Just being devils advocate on that point.

[Johnchio 0]

Hey I love your idea! But perhapst they could add a note pad tipe thing. And when you get within x amout of meters from someone you could record them in the notepad and it would put a marker on the map when they are near you and do the things you sugessted! And perhaps if you and someone els both have eachother noted you could add them to like a buddy list or an enemy list and that would like make buddys imune to your attacks and there name would be blue and there could be an enemy list that would give them red names and Mamie make there foot prints louder to you. +1

[HardTarget 27]

@Howler: Yes, it is, since it's just "name popup", so to speak. Although it's different in that you chose the name, and you have to actually see them, the problem is a game can only be as realistic as the medium allows. I'd love it if we had custom everything about our characters to easily tell who is who, but sadly, we have to work in the confines of an engine. Although I hope the text isn't nearly as big, that blatantly large text can be annoying for longer names.

@Johnchio: Whoa whoa whoa, hold up, one idea at a time mate! First off, not sure on the map part, there is a server setting akin to this where, if you view someone, the last place you viewed them appears on the map. A lot of people dislike this (myself included), and I really don't agree with that part, myself. As for the "buddy/Enemy" list, Rocket's stated before he doesn't want to add anything that benefits any sort of playstyle, and having friendlies immune to being shot by me would benefit anyone in a team. No go on that end. Glad you like the idea though.

[sirfluffkillington 1]

That's a pretty good idea you've got there. Actually it's damn good.

[Techercizer 82]

How is this off the first page? >:I

[UniversalLeo 0]

I Love this idea, in fact, tomorrow if this isn't on the main page! I'm gonna bump it! Nice idea again and was quite a good read.

[hoik 415]

There are a few issues with this suggestion that still allow abuse. Say you marked someone as "GUYHAZTODIE" and you see this black spot in a set of trash and you aim at it and it appears to be that guy. What I'm trying to say is that tags like these allow you to recognize someone as human while you'd never know without the marking. It still makes it easier' date=' but the idea behind it seems nice. Something that currently can't be implemented (mod limits), but will certainly have a word about it in the future.

Bookmarked.

[/quote']

Asside from having very specific boundaries for identifying other players, I can see a couple of ways to make this less of a "hack" (for lack of a better word :P ).

- make it so you have to observe a player/position for 10- 15 seconds before the name/tag pops up.

- or make it so that at random (or when specific criteria are met, dont ask me how) the game can give you false positives so that you THINK you saw somthing but wont know for sure till you go and find out.

I think it'd be great if you could "describe" players you've taged to others, so people who meet up and then move on can gain a larger database of people - and it will be user made!

(I've some other Ideas but am at work so will chuck in a edit this evening)

EDIT: or not :)

Edited September 17, 2012 by Hoik

[vanden1989 15]

GREAT suggestion. This should've been on the mod a long time.

[HardTarget 27]

Surprised at the amount of positive response, although can't say I'm complaining!

The one thing I'll talk about while here is what Hoik said, regarding ways to prevent exploiting. The false-positive is amusing, but I think the one piece of brilliance was the prolonged examination. I believe this is somewhat implimented already (you get the mark of "man" on a person for a bit before a name at times with normal Arma recognition), but would work well with the idea to prevent "scanning" of areas. Have it so you have to hover over the person for 5-10s before you saw the nickname you gave someone would definately make it far more difficult to exploit it if you didn't already have a clear view of someone. Also, descriptions of players may be possible, but I wouldn't know the exact details of how to "spread the word" so to speak.

If you guys think up anything new, leave a note! Anything that helps refine the idea, or point out a possible exploit will develop it further.

[kwhy (DayZ) 6]

if they could make this so it can't be used to spot players that might be hidden I'm all for it. I think it would also have to work based on seeing the players face and would take a few seconds to confirm.

you know what would be really funny would be when you died that you were able to see the list of names that people *named* you.

so you get a general idea of what impact your playing style had on other players.

[edonovan 15]

so glad I sat still long enough to read the entire thing.

I disagree about the title. That is what brought me to this thread.

The naming system seems like a great idea. as far as treeline scanning, we should utilize some realism. I doubt you'd be able to identify someone from 300m or further without a scope / binoculars, or through fog, or at night. So the simplest fix is to implement distance clipping with atmosphere weights.

Additionally, client-side clipping could be used to keep people from seeing through hills and buildings, but I don't think that is a scriptable feature. Obviously, hackers can still bypass this, but the majority of exploiters wouldn't be able to.

[hoik 415]

Ok, got a sec.

Well I was also puzzling over the problem of identifing individual players - but from the angle that this is essential for any sort of self "policing".

The solution I came up with was more generalised, but can tie in very nicely with this one.

I saw it this way:

Players are given a randomised No./Letter on spawn, such as: A53S$. This would simulate the individual features we all naturally have (a hell of alot easier than making 50+ unique skins).

The good thing about a No. like this is that it can allow you to have partial as well as full identification.

Eg. at 300m + you migh only be able to see the last two digits ---S$. This is the equivelent of noting a persons hight/skin colour/sex. So the longer you look, or the closer you are the more digits are revealed which simulates the more detail you are getting by observing the person.

For me this is good because it gives you a "pyhsical" description of a person that can be passed on in many ways - on wanted posters for example.

Probably just making things too complicated, but let me know what you think.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

I am for this idea.

[7-75 callaghan 43]

Cool idea, but knowing how this game is modded to an extent, a lot of work and perhaps slightly overcomplicated for the outcome.

Especially the feature with detecting with how well you can see them. Anything more complex than distance-to-target would be pretty hard to code due to the many semi-transparent objects etc.

A GUI would have to be designed for the 'type a name' aspect, but that is not the hardest part. Saving the list of names to your part of the database for each player ID is also extra server load, although probably not much.

Also, it would require fundamental code to be changed because the current hitscan name system is only a feature of 'recruit' mode servers, i.e. easy mode, which comes bundled with a load of other things such as crosshairs. Although I do think they can be changed individually - unless server settings are forced standardised (and I only play on expert servers i.e. no 3rd person, crosshairs or names, and would hate any other system being forced on me) then the individual settings would cause problems.

I think there are more simple possibilities, although not nearly as nice as yours, sometimes the simple solution is best. (ESPECIALLY when it comes to this game with its many idiosyncrasies. Arma really is like a bipolar, schizophrenic stalker ex-girlfriend who refuses to take her meds, at the best of times, but I love it all the same).

Personally, I don't want any kind of HUD, unless i'm actually hungry/bleeding etc. when we need to know these things. So names are highly undesirable for me. But, I suppose within a 10m radius they present no problem. Honestly I can't think of a good compromise because I don't want them at all.

I think a better system, that would be HUD free, and not require any extra work (well maybe a tiny li'l bit) would be the option to select your survivor skin, face details, glasses hat etc, at each respawn. Realistic and uncomplicated, and utilising readily available game resources.

[Dreganius (DayZ) 55]

Hey, I just met you, and this is crazy, but you're now "RandomNoobInCherno", so let's team up maybe?

[Deuzerre 64]

Very well thought and explained, I love it.

Just several small tweaks/suggestions on to to improve it.

From what I read, there is no maximum range before identifying someone. You should make it so that to name and/or identify someone, you should either be at a close range (50m?) or see them through binoculars/scope.

I think that when someone dies, his/her name should be forgotten, but that might overload the main server to have to keep track of "dead" players. Maybe each "life" having an ID (myname1 for a first life) and when someone connects to the server, that ID is sent to all players currently on the server. If the name+number > to recorded name+number, the nickname data is erased from the player data. The reason is: You have a "male" friend, then that friend respawns as a girl... Yeah, sure, you can identify the shemale.

Also, yeah, only the face.

5 stars vote;

[CER10TY 3]

This is by far one of the most in-depth suggestion I have read and the best part is that I think this is more than possible to be implemented in the game. Five stars +1 and an extra +1 for the story aspect good job comrade.

All I have to say.