Stop With the "This is Russia BS"

[Insane Ruffles 74]

Alright, I have seen this waay to many times and it is frankly pissing me off. There are posters everywhere saying "This is a Russian Farming Community, they wont have that." This is just BS. If we were really going all out realism then there would be very little guns anywhere except military bases. Dayz is focused on a zombie apocalypse, not a Russian apocalypse. I don't just want Russian surplus weapons, because that is boring as hell. I want weapons from everywhere (Preferably older weapons) And I want them to spawn just as much as Russian weapons. I'm talking about the MP40, the Sturmgewehr 44, the M1 Garand, Lee enfield, M44, etc. IDGAF if all you want is Russian everything, because that is boring as hell especially in a farming community where there are only going to be shotguns and crappy rifles. Dayz needs to have weapons, clothing, and vehicles from all over the world to give a diverse experience. There needs to be Russian guns, yes, but in no way should they dominate all of Chernaurus 

[MetapoliC 263]

I way trying to understand what you want but all I read is you wanting more weapons. Why don't you just wait for them.

 

In Russia you will see more russian weapons but already now the servers are full of M4 guys. So I don't see any domination by "russian guns" and btw. I never heard about that "Russian Farming Community".

 

RELAX

Edited April 28, 2014 by MetapoliC

[nl 986]

This is a Russian Farming Community, they wont have the kind of weapons you mention.

[bodybagger2430 59]

I found this quote in Katana's sig. I believe it applies to all of you.

 

Chernarus is a fictional country. With a fictional history. Existing in a fictional universe. With fictional circumstances being applied to it.

 

"I could tell you how Chernarus isn't Russia and I could explain the research I have conducted on my own by visiting gun shops in Russia and in Czech Republic and the massive variety of guns and ammo you can find there. I could tell you that the back story of Chernarus + rides on the back of ArmA2 in which there was large amounts of NATO forces and US personnel conducting an FID mission" ~ Scubaman3D (Chris Torchia)

 

[Katana67 2907]

In Soviet Russia, land fictions you!

 

All joking aside, I do understand and sympathize with the desire for more "Russian/Warsaw Pact" stuff. I agree, certain things should be more common as to fit their landscape. But one must recognize a few things...

 

1. Chernarus is fictional, whatever the developers decide fits into that fiction, is what fits into that fiction. In fairness, up until a few days ago, we had no confirmation of any kind of backstory in Chernarus. All we can discuss, is what we want, how we think it can be/should be implemented, and what it can offer the experience... all of which are subjective considerations beholden to the individual.

 

2. The real-world Eastern Bloc has a myriad of equipment/weapons/gear. We live in a globalized society, there are very few hard divides anymore. Especially with material goods.

 

3. The mere inclusion of something doesn't mean it's common, for fuck's sake, I've spent my entire post history combating this fallacy. Why rare items being rare is a threat to people, is beyond me.

 

4. There is already a robust pure post-Soviet fiction available (Metro and STALKER) for the player. Even then, these examples use fictional/western equipment.

 

5. Immersion is subjective. My immersion isn't the same as your immersion. Stop using it as an objective term.

 

6. The advocacy for "Western" equipment should not be confused with a hatred for "Russian/Warsaw Pact" gear. I love all weapons, I want them in-game.

 

7. Real-world circumstance can never be implicitly used as the sole determinant of what's plausible in fiction. Even Torchia has made this error, with regard to his dismissal of the AK-12. Chernarus is fictional, fiction makes plausible what is not in the real-world, by definition.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Katana67

[GunnyITA 107]

I understand your frustrations but as you can see Dayz it's enstablished in a very poor country of farmers...indications are written in russian and there is no other way to empathize in the game.

 

So the only suggestions can be given are something that is russian, can be, or neutral

 

 

 

Example, on another topic i've suggested few cars, I've listed some Ssangyong. Why Korean Cars? Because Despire EU or America, Ssangyong is a brand well known on Russia and are awesome SUV for OffRoad. Built over Mercedes-Benz engine, they are low cost cars for everyone and pushed to the limit on Russia.

....And i have one ;)

 

don't think i'm not with you, i understand but there's no choice. I hate russians aswell, they are well known all over Dota2 community.

[chompster 171]

Arma2 and dayz might both be set in Chernarus, but they're both seperate universes.

Just cus nato was in arma2, doesn't mean they were(in as large number) in Dayz's Chernarus as well.

[NagsterTheGangster 388]

Okay, my opinion here.. They're going for AS MUCH REALISM AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT GAME BREAKING PROPERTIES.  So yeah, an overabundance of American weaponry everywhere would be "game breaking" in my opinion. Takes away from the majority of realistic environments and functions around you that make up the FICTIONAL Chernarus land.

[Insane Ruffles 74]

I way trying to understand what you want but all I read is you wanting more weapons. Why don't you just wait for them.

 

In Russia you will see more russian weapons but already now the servers are full of M4 guys. So I don't see any domination by "russian guns" and btw. I never heard about that "Russian Farming Community".

 

RELAX

I have seen it a lot actually, and this is aimed towards the community to tell them to stop posting that "This is Russia, they wont have that stuff, there should only be Russian weapons." As mentioned by body bagger, there would be all sort of weapons, not just Russian weapons. And I'm not saying I want more weapons right now, I am pointing out how stupid and redundant these posts are.

Okay, my opinion here.. They're going for AS MUCH REALISM AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT GAME BREAKING PROPERTIES.  So yeah, an overabundance of American weaponry everywhere would be "game breaking" in my opinion. Takes away from the majority of realistic environments and functions around you that make up the FICTIONAL Chernarus land.

No where did I say more American weaponry, i said more older weaponry from all over the globe.

Edited April 28, 2014 by InsaneRuffles

[Katana67 2907]

Just cus nato was in arma2, doesn't mean they were(in as large number) in Dayz's Chernarus as well.

 

Refer to my signature. Torchia has plainly stated that Chernarus builds off of the history of ARMA II. Although I disagree with some of his reasoning behind making the statement (i.e. that lore is irrelevant compared to pragmatism), it nonetheless confirms what I have suspected for some time.

 

Whether it's in the same timeline as ARMA III (thereby, the vanilla Armaverse) is up for debate. Albeit it's a bit academic at this point.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Murlough 192]

OP: "Stop saying this is Russia"

ME: "Ok, this is Sparta."

[Jeansie 37]

OP: "Stop saying this is Russia"

ME: "Ok, this is Sparta."

HAHA...(Imagining Gerard Butler spitting all over the screen) 

[Insane Ruffles 74]

OP: "Stop saying this is Russia"

ME: "Ok, this is Sparta."

Yes, and Zombies should line up in Phalanx formation and march through Cherno moaning, "ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!"

[liquidsnake 275]

In Soviet Russia, land fictions you!

 

All joking aside, I do understand and sympathize with the desire for more "Russian/Warsaw Pact" stuff. I agree, certain things should be more common as to fit their landscape. But one must recognize a few things...

 

1. Chernarus is fictional, whatever the developers decide fits into that fiction, is what fits into that fiction. In fairness, up until a few days ago, we had no confirmation of any kind of backstory in Chernarus. All we can discuss, is what we want, how we think it can be/should be implemented, and what it can offer the experience... all of which are subjective considerations beholden to the individual.

 

2. The real-world Eastern Bloc has a myriad of equipment/weapons/gear. We live in a globalized society, there are very few hard divides anymore. Especially with material goods.

 

3. The mere inclusion of something doesn't mean it's common, for fuck's sake, I've spent my entire post history combating this fallacy. Why rare items being rare is a threat to people, is beyond me.

 

4. There is already a robust pure post-Soviet fiction available (Metro and STALKER) for the player. Even then, these examples use fictional/western equipment.

 

5. Immersion is subjective. My immersion isn't the same as your immersion. Stop using is as an objective term.

 

6. The advocacy for "Western" equipment should not be confused with a hatred for "Russian/Warsaw Pact" gear. I love all weapons, I want them in-game.

 

7. Real-world circumstance can never be implicitly used as the sole determinant of what's plausible in fiction. Even Torchia has made this error, with regard to his dismissal of the AK-12. Chernarus is fictional, fiction makes plausible what is not in the real-world, by definition.

I do agree with you on a certain level, but certainly not 100%. I for one, wouldn't mind having an AS50 spawn rarely, under the guise of the UN (US and UK, plus other countries maybe) intervening there as an attempt to keep the pandemic under control. Definitely wouldn't mind that. Where we don't agree is the obscure firearms. IMO, the AS50 is already somewhat obscure, but its presence can be justified. If its presence can be justified I won't care as long as it's rare (much like your point of view). When it's a bit too... out there, however, I'll probably have a heart attack when I see it. I think some amazingly obscure firearms are in your wishlist, can't remember which ones right now. For me, three factors need to be in order before adding a weapon: its presence needs to be justifiable, it needs to be (extremely in some cases) hard to find and pretty much all Warsaw Pact weapons need to be a lot easier to find. 

[Katana67 2907]

Okay, my opinion here.. They're going for AS MUCH REALISM AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT GAME BREAKING PROPERTIES.  So yeah, an overabundance of American weaponry everywhere would be "game breaking" in my opinion. Takes away from the majority of realistic environments and functions around you that make up the FICTIONAL Chernarus land.

 

1. Nobody's saying American/Western/NATO should be common. In two years of posting, never seen anyone make that assertion.

 

2. Game breaking implies it breaks the game, having certain weapons which break "immersion" (which is what you're actually referring to) is a subjective opinion. Nothing wrong with it, but equating "immersion breaking" with "game breaking" isn't applicable.

 

3. By dictate of being fiction, weapons that are included are made immersive.

 

4. If you want to abide by realism, then you have to include Western/NATO weapons. Pure and simple. Eastern Block countries, post-Soviet countries and the like... make use of Western/NATO weaponry if not outright manufacturing it already.

[Jeansie 37]

I do agree with you on a certain level, but certainly not 100%. I for one, wouldn't mind having an AS50 spawn rarely, under the guise of the UN (US and UK, plus other countries maybe) intervening there as an attempt to keep the pandemic under control. Definitely wouldn't mind that. Where we don't agree is the obscure firearms. IMO, the AS50 is already somewhat obscure, but its presence can be justified. If its presence can be justified I won't care as long as it's rare (much like your point of view). When it's a bit too... out there, however, I'll probably have a heart attack when I see it. I think some amazingly obscure firearms are in your wishlist, can't remember which ones right now. For me, three factors need to be in order before adding a weapon: its presence needs to be justifiable, it needs to be (extremely in some cases) hard to find and pretty much all Warsaw Pact weapons need to be a lot easier to find. 

 

#GiveUsTheAS50!

[Katana67 2907]

I do agree with you on a certain level, but certainly not 100%. I for one, wouldn't mind having an AS50 spawn rarely, under the guise of the UN (US and UK, plus other countries maybe) intervening there as an attempt to keep the pandemic under control. Definitely wouldn't mind that. Where we don't agree is the obscure firearms. IMO, the AS50 is already somewhat obscure, but its presence can be justified. If its presence can be justified I won't care as long as it's rare (much like your point of view). When it's a bit too... out there, however, I'll probably have a heart attack when I see it. I think some amazingly obscure firearms are in your wishlist, can't remember which ones right now. For me, three factors need to be in order before adding a weapon: its presence needs to be justifiable, it needs to be (extremely in some cases) hard to find and pretty much all Warsaw Pact weapons need to be a lot easier to find. 

 

That's fine, and I agree, through rarity I am set free!

 

The only ones that I actually consider obscure, that I would have in my "wishlist" (even though I don't mind any particular weapon being included, inasmuch as it's justifiably rare and provided-for in fiction) are the TDI Vector and AS50. And even then, there is a long list of like-weapons (i.e. SMGs and anti-materiel rifles) that I'd prefer/take over the two I mentioned. Still not opposed to their inclusion, though.

[benri 33]

this is chernarus, this is post soviet country. want realism? then lets force them to delete weird guns that have less than 1000 owners around the world and have nothing to do with soviet russia.

dont want realism? go to rust. end of the story.

[liquidsnake 275]

That's fine, and I agree, through rarity I am set free!

 

The only ones that I actually consider obscure, that I would have in my "wishlist" (even though I don't mind any particular weapon being included, inasmuch as it's justifiably rare and provided-for in fiction) are the TDI Vector and AS50. And even then, there is a long list of like-weapons (i.e. SMGs and anti-materiel rifles) that I'd prefer/take over the two I mentioned. Still not opposed to their inclusion, though.

The vector would definitely be too obscure for me

[Katana67 2907]

this is chernarus, this is post soviet country. want realism? then lets force them to delete weird guns that have less than 1000 owners around the world and have nothing to do with soviet russia.

dont want realism? go to rust. end of the story.

 

Which weapons have less than 1000 owners in DayZ? Only one I could possibly see is the new Thompson Center pistol and perhaps the Amphibia S (although I doubt that one highly).

 

And Chernarus isn't Soviet Russia. Whole point of the thread.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Katana67 2907]

The vector would definitely be too obscure for me

 

Which is fine, as it's actually obscure/hyper-rare.

 

The problem I've encountered, is that people think weapons like the AR-10 family (i.e. Mk 11/M110/SR-25/HK417/L129A1) are obscure. Or people that think the SCAR family, is obscure (able to be purchased by civilians, purchased in the thousands by USSOCOM, used by USSOCOM and other nations regularly to this day). Or that the Tavor is obscure (manufactured in Eastern Europe, used by a variety of militaries globally, able to be purchased by civilians). Are they the most popular weapons out there? Of course not. But they're not hidden away in some vault, they're actively being manufactured and employed by a variety of folks.

 

By virtue of being mass-produced, most weapons, or weapon families certainly aren't obscure. The TDI Vector, is. The WA2000, is. The AS50, is.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Katana67

[liquidsnake 275]

Which is fine, as it's actually obscure/hyper-rare.

 

The problem I've encountered, is that people think weapons like the AR-10 family (i.e. Mk 11/M110/SR-25/HK417/L129A1) are obscure. Or people that think the SCAR family, is obscure (able to be purchased by civilians, purchased in the thousands by USSOCOM, used by USSOCOM and other nations regularly to this day). Or that the Tavor is obscure (manufactured in Eastern Europe, used by a variety of militaries globally, able to be purchased by civilians). Are they the most popular weapons out there? Of course not. But they're not hidden away in some vault, they're actively being manufactured and employed by a variety of folks.

 

By virtue of being mass-produced, most weapons, or weapon families certainly aren't obscure. The TDI Vector, is. The WA2000, is. The AS50, is.

Exactly my way of looking at it. But still, seeing certain civilian-owned weaponry like the SCAR-L/H in Chernarus would be too obscure for me. I just can't see it in my mind, a Chernarussian civilian buying a SCAR. 

[Katana67 2907]

Exactly my way of looking at it. But still, seeing certain civilian-owned weaponry like the SCAR-L/H in Chernarus would be too obscure for me. I just can't see it in my mind, a Chernarussian civilian buying a SCAR. 

 

Right, and I'd never suggest finding these types of weapons in a civilian area in DayZ. Merely suggesting that they're not obscure globally as to somehow preclude their mere inclusion.

 

Not to mention that both are provided for in ARMA II's fiction.

[MagneticToast 102]

LOL you want a working STG44 in the game, and tried to say that you'd be going for realism with little guns anywhere but a military base.

[bodybagger2430 59]

Exactly my way of looking at it. But still, seeing certain civilian-owned weaponry like the SCAR-L/H in Chernarus would be too obscure for me. I just can't see it in my mind, a Chernarussian civilian buying a SCAR. 

Chernussian Movement of the red star member perhaps (I Assume they are some kind of civilian militia type thing since the military seems to be Chernussian defense force)? There are some drops that should make you look around and wonder what the story is, and perhaps be able to work out that story. It's something I loved in Fallout 3 and NV is finding all these notes near skeletons or walking into a bedroom and seeing a couple of skeletons holding each other in bed, or opening a personal shelter and finding a skeleton with a pistol and bottles of water. It made you look at it go "I wonder" something that Chernarus is sadly missing right now. But I hope to see in the future as lore is revealed and written