What is Persistent Loot going to look like?

[Mr Jizz 313]

I wanted to open a discussion, and hopefully enlist the opinions and knowledge of people familiar with the architecture of the game.  I'm not a programmer, and I'm not going to pretend to be.  I have nothing but respect for people that do, and I'm anxious to hear some different perspectives. But please be kind, I'm acknowledging my lack of experience to avoid cheap shots for something I just don't know enough about. What I DON'T want this to turn into is a flame-debate about one person's opinion over another, or anything regarding the virtues of one style of play over another.  Loot will obviously be a game changer, but I'm not interested in whether or not persistent loot will have an impact on banditry, or KoSing, or whatever.. let's be objective fellas.

 

My biggest question is how this will operate with a public hive, specifically in regards to stated plans for a central loot system.  My understanding of persistent objects in a virtual world are that the items are saved specific to that server you're using.  So if you're playing Minecraft, for example, you build a house in a server that won't follow you to another server.  This includes any items you carry on your character.  Pretty obvious concept.  However, with DayZ's current form, we move from server to server and your character is the same.. same equipment, same everything.  This is really my question.. once persistent loot is introduced, will it spawn into a server that we join just as the equipment on our back? Furthermore, if I set up a tent in the Black Forest in Server A, and despawn in Berezino, then join Server B, will my tent appear in Server B at the same place in the Black Forest? 

 

[Etherimp 1323]

Tents/Persistant storage will be server side only. (It was in the mod, anyway)

 

Character loot will be carried over from server to server.

[Irish. 4886]

It depends on hives and how they implement it.

 

If we have separate hives, then each server is a new character/gear/etc.. If there are some separate hives, and some joined hives then you have persistent containers that apply for only that server, but your character can swap in between the joined hives and still have his same gear on his person.

 

That help?

[Jeansie 37]

My guess would be that if you pitch a tent in Server 'A'...It will remain in 'A'

[Mr Jizz 313]

Tents/Persistant storage will be server side only. (It was in the mod, anyway)

 

Character loot will be carried over from server to server.

 

Does general attrition and asshattery 'holistically' keep the number of tents in a server from getting out of control?  As in, is it ever an issue where there's hundreds of tents in a given server?

[irishroy 1347]

I was thinking about the same.

 

Hm, if your hide-spot is connected with your char and saved on a hive, this would be good, too, I think.

So when you set up a backpack full of sodas on server A, then log off and join serer B, this backpack would be brought to server B.

 

I hope it the way I described it.

[Irish. 4886]

I was thinking about the same.

 

Hm, if your hide-spot is connected with your char and saved on a hive, this would be good, too, I think.

So when you set up a backpack full of sodas on server A, then log off and join serer B, this backpack would be brought to server B.

 

I hope it the way I described it.

Can you imagine what would happen in that scenario?

 

1,000's of tents and backpacks littering the landscape. 

[Mr Jizz 313]

It depends on hives and how they implement it.

 

If we have separate hives, then each server is a new character/gear/etc.. If there are some separate hives, and some joined hives then you have persistent containers that apply for only that server, but your character can swap in between the joined hives and still have his same gear on his person.

 

That help?

 

Still leaves me with the main question though, which is the connection between the game's current state, Dean's roadmap and the recent push for globally controlled (centralized) loot.

 

I was thinking about the same.

 

Hm, if your hide-spot is connected with your char and saved on a hive, this would be good, too, I think.

So when you set up a backpack full of sodas on server A, then log off and join serer B, this backpack would be brought to server B.

 

I hope it the way I described it.

 

^This is what I'd prefer

 

Can you imagine what would happen in that scenario?

 

1,000's of tents and backpacks littering the landscape. 

 

I'm not sure, but we might be on the same page.  Looking at it from the perspective of server performance, if your persistent loot only stayed in the server you placed it on, then remained behind after you left (like it does with Minecraft), a clusterfuck would ensue.  However, if your tent/persistent gear despawned with you, like an extension of your character, it would alleviate this.  This is how I'd like to see it go, this way I can go between the 3-4 servers that I frequent the most, and not have to worry about 4 separate tents, each unique to the server I'm in.

[yorkmorgan 191]

Hi, I too am not very learned in the dark arts of programming but I would make an educated guess that persistent objects will be bound to the server and not too the player. Heres my reasoning:

1. Performance wise:

Rocket has already said that the 10 min timer was mainly introduced because loading in characters is a lot of work for the server and it causes a big performance drop across that server. If aswell as having to load in a characters local items (clothes, weapons etc.) the server also had to deal with a characters non local objects (cars, tents etc.) this would likely be far to big a load on the server and would kill performance big time.

2. Gameplay wise:

it would be fairly odd if when you leave a server all your non local objects disappeared along with you. This raises the question of what would happen if another player was interacting with those objects at the time you log out (eg. someone steals your car and then you log out). Also it would cause difficulties when you log into another server and all your non local objects spawn in with you, firstly it would be immersion breaking for other players who would see your objects magically appear, and secondly it would also cause difficulties on the off chance these items spawn into places that are already occupied by other objects.

 

Basically I would be fairly sure that persistent loot will be bound to a particular server and not a particular character.

Edited April 28, 2014 by YorkMorgan

[zeroy 240]

 

My biggest question is how this will operate with a public hive, specifically in regards to stated plans for a central loot system

 

 

Been trying to understand how it could work and I think we will see backpacks/small containers and their content being persistent on servers via the central hive. I cannot see tents or large containers like this being implemented on a central hive system for obvious reason that the map/world would be filled with them (25k players on average at all time I believe).

 

Even with this however I feel there would be a need to tie that container to your player inventory - what this would do is that when you log off a server the container would remain for 30 seconds (like your avatar) then disappear with you - and of course the container will be present in the server once you login. that would solve the issue of the containers been there all the time across all servers. while not being totally fair (container gone with you logging off) I feel that is the only way to have a central persistent container solution.

Can you imagine what would happen in that scenario?

 

1,000's of tents and backpacks littering the landscape. 

 

No, this is the same idea I just posted about. The container and its location de-spawned with you login on or off.

Edited April 28, 2014 by zeroy99

[Etherimp 1323]

Does general attrition and asshattery 'holistically' keep the number of tents in a server from getting out of control?  As in, is it ever an issue where there's hundreds of tents in a given server?

 

 

Well, that's one factor.. but also, in the Mod if a tent/vehicle was not interacted with for a certain amount of time, it would disappear/reset.

[irishroy 1347]

However, if your tent/persistent gear despawned with you, like an extension of your character, it would alleviate this.

 

 

This would also be good for following reason:

Clans can not really set up tons tents/backpacks full of TTsKO-things, guns and ammo,

because the backpacks are connected with each player.

 

Also, if there is a clan on a server, whose members are well equipped, you know: "There must be lots of backpacks"

=> clan guys must "care" for their hide-spots.

Edited April 28, 2014 by irishroy

[zeroy 240]

2. Gameplay wise:

it would be fairly odd if when you leave a server all your non local objects disappeared along with you. This raises the question of what would happen if another player was interacting with those objects at the time you log out (eg. someone steals your car and then you log out). Also it would cause difficulties when you log into another server and all your non local objects spawn in with you, firstly it would be immersion breaking for other players who would see your objects magically appear, and secondly it would also cause difficulties on the off chance these items spawn into places that are already occupied by other objects.

 

The same thing that happens if you loot a dead body, it disappear within a time (15mn at present) in front of you while looting it.

[Mr Jizz 313]

Hi, I too am not very learned in the dark arts of programming but I would make an educated guess that persistent objects will be bound to the server and not too the player. Heres my reasoning:

1. Performance wise:

Rocket has already said that the 10 min timer was mainly introduced because loading in characters is a lot of work for the server and it causes a big performance drop across that server. If aswell as having to load in a characters local items (clothes, weapons etc.) the server also had to deal with a characters non local objects (cars, tents etc.) this would likely be far to big a load on the server and would kill performance big time.

2. Gameplay wise:

it would be fairly odd if when you leave a server all your non local objects disappeared along with you. This raises the question of what would happen if another player was interacting with those objects at the time you log out (eg. someone steals your car and then you log out). Also it would cause difficulties when you log into another server and all your non local objects spawn in with you, firstly it would be immersion breaking for other players who would see your objects magically appear, and secondly it would also cause difficulties on the off chance these items spawn into places that are already occupied by other objects.

 

Basically I would be fairly sure that persistent loot will be bound to a particular server and not a particular character.

 

On your first point.. I wonder if the plans for a 64-bit platform will allow this to happen.  I'm especially curious about comments that Dean has made, specifically at E3 when discussing his longterm roadmap he identified a scenario where players would "have to go to another server to find a specific part they need to complete their helicopter" These sort of comments are at odds with a server-side persistent loot system.

 

On your second point, and as a segue, I hadn't considered vehicles until just now.  Perhaps the components of vehicles could be carried from one server to another, but the vehcile itself would remain in one server. Using your example, things would get pretty ridiculous if whilst driving another player's car where said player logs out, and you're left driving a cushion of air..

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by Mr Jizz

[zeroy 240]

Using your example, things would get pretty ridiculous if whilst driving another player's car where said player logs out, and you're left driving a cushion of air..

 

 

Why so? The vehicle would then not be the player's anymore but yours...

[jgbtl292 45]

ok then when you have many loot and a big tent - then you need server hopping with your backpack for move your house and your collected items.  when you find on a other server a new friend for example

Edited June 24, 2014 by Crusader78

[gibonez 3633]

Tents PFfft

 

It will look like IEDS, grenade tripwires, and dozens on dozens of other persistent booby traps that I lay down.

 

Going to airfields will be a whole lot riskier

[frosti 2165]

I will play on server A and keep my tent on some obscure low populated server B and will jsut server hop to store/take items from tents.

[Karmaterror 982]

I don't like the idea of stuff following you round from server to server. The base should tie you down to that server, if you want a base on a high pop you have to build it under those conditions, not just build it elsewhere and then "bring it along for the ride".

 

I thnk that the whole tents everywhere scenario will be combatted by the "global loot economy". So if 50 tents are up on that server no more will spawn there. And when a few servers have a lot of tents they will spawn less across the entire hive to keep it in check. Only as tents are destroyed would they come back into the loot tables.

 

Maybe that's whats the holdup on persistant objects, with them wanting to do something like backpacks as persistant. First they need a way to control the amount that spawn :)

[foxdie_01 121]

You got 3 options, player side, server side, or hive side. Player side is just too easy to hack, server side is what we used to have with the old mod. But I think hive side would be much better, as mentioning spawning in with the player.

 

This way those scooping up all the decent loot on low-pop servers to then grief on a high pop servers have more to risk.

[jgbtl292 45]

 

I don't like the idea of stuff following you round from server to server.

 

 

no ! you have a server and in 2-3 weeks   the server its all time full - nice  create a new char and now play from start - because your server is full - NO THANKS

Edited June 24, 2014 by Crusader78

[slippery gypsy 107]

im still confused ... why wouldnt tents be server bound with 7 day despawn it worked before and it will work now and being bound to your character make no sense because there supposed to be lootable buy anyone while you not around hence the whole hiding them so they cant be found  .... the simple solution to the ass-hattery you can destroy the tents so they despawn 

[TiggyPooh 134]

I think tents should be rare, like AKM rare.

Players should be able to craft their own tents from hides, sticks and rope, but these require maintenance due to weathering.

 

Small Hide Tent 

 

Medium Hide Tent

 

 

 

Large Hide Tent