Grass Graphics

[p4triot 207]

... Just no.

Yes yes, the sky is green you win.

 

With your ideas and your responses you must be fun at meetings, but not helpful at all.

 

Gonna explain a little better so even you may understand.

 

OP came to this forum with a problem, a problem bothering a lot of people playing this game. People can spot other people hiding in the grass from long distances just because grass is not rendered, and we are looking for a way to fix that problem. That is our priority.

 

- Then someone says we should force people to upgrade, which is not acceptable because is not fair at all.

- Then someone says we should force people with low tier pc's to downgrade his view distance, which is also not fair at all, so not acceptable.

- Then you arrive and say, "well, since this happens to everyone, means it is already fair" which yeah, is fair, but doesn't fix the problem at all, and remember, that is our priority! Which means, even this is 100% fair with no doubt, still is not acceptable!!

 

So, long story short, we're looking for the fairest way while fixing the problem. Less than that is not acceptable.

 

Da GrEeN SkY beats ur' ass bitch!!

Edited April 27, 2014 by p4triot

[gibonez 3633]

The main problem and the problem in alot of games lately is that players that crank down their settings all the way to the lowest setting gain a considerable advantage over people playing in high settings.

 

This is absolutely unacceptable no matter what .

[AshleyP 121]

I'm old enough to remember Operation Flashpoint, which looked like this:

 

 

There was no grass at all. The bushes were magical - as long as you remained inside them the enemy were programmed to not see you, even though they knew you were there. Notice the pub model off in the distance, which hasn't changed much since 2001.

 

ArmA introduced spartan grass although as nowadays it was purely a graphical effect:

 

 

With Arma2 they seem to have gone mad (and this is relatively light foliage):

 

 

The obvious solution is to revert to model from ArmA, and have spartan grass again. Just enough that the game world doesn't look awful, but keep it neatly trimmed so that it never interferes with your vision. Long grass didn't work in the single-player version of ArmA2 - imagine playing DayZ but against players armed with grenade launchers, armoured vehicles, and aimbots - and it makes no sense in multiplayer.

[gibonez 3633]

snip

 

 

 

Or they can just keep grass and add more of it and allow players to cut the grass in front of them to set up a firing position.

 

In real life tall grass that gets in the way exist what people are forced to do is cut the grass and foliage so that you can get a clear shooting position of what you want to kill.

 

It does not need to be complicated either.

 

simply have a scroll option that says clear brush and that merely makes the grass come down like if you moved over it but instead of propping up after 3 minutes it lasts 1 hour flattened.

[Ghostflux 100]

The obvious solution is to revert to model from ArmA, and have spartan grass again. Just enough that the game world doesn't look awful, but keep it neatly trimmed so that it never interferes with your vision. Long grass didn't work in the single-player version of ArmA2 - imagine playing DayZ but against players armed with grenade launchers, armoured vehicles, and aimbots - and it makes no sense in multiplayer.

 

I don't consider it a solution because it doesn't really seem realistic.

In the wilds there is low and high grass, and I wouldn't mind them using a combination of both. They could use the alpha layer trick on the higher grass to make it performance friendly.

[blazed 71]

With your ideas and your responses you must be fun at meetings, but not helpful at all.

 

Gonna explain a little better so even you may understand.

 

OP came to this forum with a problem, a problem bothering a lot of people playing this game. People can spot other people hiding in the grass from long distances just because grass is not rendered, and we are looking for a way to fix that problem. That is our priority.

 

- Then someone says we should force people to upgrade, which is not acceptable because is not fair at all.

- Then someone says we should force people with low tier pc's to downgrade his view distance, which is also not fair at all, so not acceptable.

- Then you arrive and say, "well, since this happens to everyone, means it is already fair" which yeah, is fair, but doesn't fix the problem at all, and remember, that is our priority! Which means, even this is 100% fair with no doubt, still is not acceptable!!

 

So, long story short, we're looking for the fairest way while fixing the problem. Less than that is not acceptable.

 

Da GrEeN SkY beats ur' ass bitch!!

 

First of all I didn't just arrive, I was pretty much here from the start of the thread, and I have been trying to be helpful pointing out some futile and bad attempts to fix the issue, which BIS would spot right away as bad ideas.

 

I'm sorry but the game being fair is more important than fixing your grass issues, so here's a tissue for your issue.

 

Until someone comes up with a brilliant and fair idea (which no one has) then the game is better left as it stands now with the grass "oh dear god I can't hide in the grass when people scout me from afar" guess what nobody else can either! Work around it, Use bushes and leafy pine trees for cover then.

 

If you really can't bare the land looking plain TURN your settings all the way MAX then and deal with the damn handicap, most serious gamers even with big rigs turn the quality of the game down to allow more FPS and smoothness in their game, they take cursor aiming very seriously, nearly every pro gamer does it, unless they see no improvment to fps.

 

I don't mind Grass being in there, I dont mind if they remove the grass entirely, DayZ is not about grass to me. Some players expections is just way off "FORCE THEM TO UPGRADE" and "LET THE LOW SPECS SUFFER SEVERE CONSQUENCES" is just pathetic solutions to how the game works now.

 

Here is the basic principle that every human being should be able to understand:

Big Rigged PC's can compensate and revert downwards to play in a Equal field.

Mid Rigged PC's cannot compensate and boost up their rendering ability.

 

You and your friends go out to the city to walk around visit some places, one of your friends has recently broken his legs and is using crutches.

 

Does your group A) Slow down in walking speed to compensate for the friend with crutches.

or B ) screw the guy with crutches, and leave him behind.

(and for the sake of arguement, let's say the friend with the crutches has pleaded to go out with you guys because he's too bored/stressed indoors.)

Edited April 27, 2014 by blazed

[p4triot 207]

Until someone comes up with a brilliant and fair idea (which no one has)

 

 

Whats wrong with that one?

 

 

EDIT - Check this out, seems like a fairly low overhead solution

 

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?148861-Rendering-grass-at-long-distances-My-thoughts-about-it

 

[blazed 71]

Whats wrong with that one?

 

Nothing really, I forgot to mention that is my favourite solution so far,

 

It is a bit iffy as it basically renders opponents in little blotches and pixels, but yeah definately the best solution so far from all the other crap.

Edited April 27, 2014 by blazed

[gibonez 3633]

I like my solution make it so low system spec machines do not have an advantage and force them to render grass a longer distance.

 

Force grass to render when looking at optics problem solved.

 

those that cant get a good frame rate can lower other settings and make the game uglier but the grass rendering stays so nobody has an advantage over anyone else .

 

If that still is unacceptable they quit their bitching and upgrade.

[Katana67 2907]

There's also an interesting bit on the mid-range textures.

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4635

 

Edited April 28, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

There's also an interesting bit on the mid-range textures.

 

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=4635

 

 

 

Woa that is terrific.

 

Now they need to upgrade the long range textures make Arma 3 look even better.

 

Same with dayz they could improve the graphics a ton.

[sobieski12 835]

You can't really force everyones computer to load grass miles and miles into the distance, its just too resource hungry, remember it works both ways, he sees you without grass and you can see him without grass too...

 

I've got a better idea, just remove the grass till the servers can handle a massive rendering distance.

[Katana67 2907]

I've got a better idea, just remove the grass till the servers can handle a massive rendering distance.

 

Draw distance doesn't have much to do with the server, mostly to do with the client.

 

There are solutions out there folks. Solutions that don't have hardcore downsides to performance.

[Irish. 4886]

I wonder whether there is some sort of indication that they will solve in the near future "problem" of grass graphic when zooming with the scope or eaven with naked eye. So on the one hand there are you in the grass and you dont see nothing in front of you because of grass, and 400m away is another  man who zoom (even without scope) and he dont "load" graphic of the grass so it looks like you are on clean flat surface (like a carpet). So if you implement a ghillie suit ingame it will not have any pupropse when you will be "visible" bush with naked eye from a distance .....

I think the solution may be (if possible) to make grass a completely separate setting. Adjustable so those with low end PC's are ok and those that can crank it up will just have to understand the disadvantage of having the game look good. Its always been this way as it is now (bugged basically), and I dont see them fixing the rendering soon, but Im confident that they may figure it out eventually. And if they dont, the above mentioned may be obtainable as a back-up. 

[Hrki 94]

I think that they shoud standardies settings and you cant mess with them (example brightness) and there shoud be "min req for game" and if you dont have it you cant play it! so we will have equal settings for all !

[zeroy 240]

he dont "load" graphic of the grass so it looks like you are on clean flat surface (like a carpet).

 

Due to LOD (Level of details) of objects. Dayz helps a little on that issue by sinking the player a bit onto the ground at distance but ideally? Learn to know which bushes/trees always render at distance (1000m at least) and hide behind those!

[zeroy 240]

Its always been this way as it is now (bugged basically)

 

There is no bug. Its a performance thing. Every game has this built in - the LOD (level of detail) varies from object to objects, the FPS would drop dramatically if you started to load every grass object for 1000m. With that said, it would be sorted for when you "zoom" with a LRS for instance, not sure how difficult this would be to implement....

[Hrki 94]

Just say its hard to work on engine because we didnt make it we buy it and we dont have enough man (because we dont invest) to make it worth

[gibonez 3633]

There is no bug. Its a performance thing. Every game has this built in - the LOD (level of detail) varies from object to objects, the FPS would drop dramatically if you started to load every grass object for 1000m. With that said, it would be sorted for when you "zoom" with a LRS for instance, not sure how difficult this would be to implement....

 

 

So a delay of like 1 second when you zoom in with a scope that give the game enough time to render grass in the scope ?

[zeroy 240]

So a delay of like 1 second when you zoom in with a scope that give the game enough time to render grass in the scope ?

 

Im not sure if its even viable in the game engine used - the game would need to indeed follow your FOV to draw as it goes, could be more FPS impact that I first imaging ... And even with the solution of having the draw distance for foliage extended to those with higher end rigs, it would create a huge disadvantage compare to those who draw nothing at distance ...

[Judopunch 523]

Terrible idea this only serves to focus on the lowest common denominator if someone has a monster pc then let them render miles and miles of landscape.

 

I want to be able to see a player in berenzino from 2 miles away.

But even your 'monster' computer would crack if it had to render grass for two miles in every direction. With current technology it is not possible, to the best of my knowledge.

[Judopunch 523]

There is no bug. Its a performance thing. Every game has this built in - the LOD (level of detail) varies from object to objects, the FPS would drop dramatically if you started to load every grass object for 1000m. With that said, it would be sorted for when you "zoom" with a LRS for instance, not sure how difficult this would be to implement....

Probably very as it would need to be rendered on the spot, creating brand new calculations instantaneously :(

[xalienax 621]

Probably very as it would need to be rendered on the spot, creating brand new calculations instantaneously :(

I dont have a nuts n bolts understanding of how the engine handles this, but wouldnt most of the "assets" ie textures be pre loaded to video memory anyways? this ould just add a few sudden render calls unless im missing something. The main issue i would think would be a matter of it creating "stutter" as it suddenly pops-in all the new stuff as your draw distance changes. Much like the intital stutter you get on loading in or changing video settings.

[Judopunch 523]

I dont have a nuts n bolts understanding of how the engine handles this, but wouldnt most of the "assets" ie textures be pre loaded to video memory anyways? this ould just add a few sudden render calls unless im missing something. The main issue i would think would be a matter of it creating "stutter" as it suddenly pops-in all the new stuff as your draw distance changes. Much like the intital stutter you get on loading in or changing video settings.

That may actually be the case. It could be covered by animation if so?

[xalienax 621]

That may actually be the case. It could be covered by animation if so?

its a real possibility. one would have to know more about how the engine actually handles preloaded assets tho. tis somewhat beyond the scope my my knowledge :P