Extensive in-depth idea for rewarding good-guy players

[cat (DayZ) 22]

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Introduction

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On my last playing session, I was jumped by 7 bandits on balota airfield. SO I swore revenge and after collecting some gear (enfield rifle + binoculars) I camped out in the air control tower and fired warning shots at any approaching bandit. I was able to spot them from 500m and usually managed to produce near misses with my enfield which scred most away. However after some time I heard gun shots below me. I panicked and climbed down and headed towards the rear exit. When I arrived at the staircase I found 2 dead bandits. They shot each other because they got into an argument over loot which was near the staircase.

The funny thing about teh story is that they initially planned to sneak up on me, which would have worked, but their greed over the shiny loot made them fight over it and saved my life.

While my attempt to create a safe zone for innocent players failed, it led me to several interesting ideas that could be implemented into the game:

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More rewarding good-guy experience

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Players who actively support others, like give blood or hunting bandits or other things the gameplay can detect as supportive should be rewarded:

For example after a player reaches certain levels of humanity, he should get a new „skin“ which would resemble a cop, or wildwest sheriff.

The advantages of this would be:

-Players would instantly be recognized as trustworthy.

-They could facilitate creating meeting places which could serve as „safe hubs“ or trading posts for the „good guys“. Newly spawned players would naturally swarm around these „saints“ and form mobs of good guys to hunt for supplies.

Safe zones would be generated on the fly by their presence and people could meet to chat or simply have supervision by a moral authority in order to trade items.

-They would even be able to assume moral authority and gather good guys around them to form parties that go out and actively hunt bad guys.

In order to safeguard the rank of „wasteland cop“ against abuse safeguards should be in place:

-A player who commits murder while being a cop, should get a severe penalty and instantly be branded as bandit and this should stick for a while, because he betrayed a position of high trust.

-The rank should be only attainable by persistent display of supporting others. And only by going out of your way of being a good guy.

Basically a normal player who is just being an average good guy that never murders could not attain the rank. In order to become a cop, one would have to build a strong record of humanity, by any means the game code an detect „good“ deeds. Examples I can think of are, bandit hunting, giving blood.

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Enhancing the Bandit experience

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While this topic is mostly about more rewarding good-guy play, the concept of „evil“ is connected to the whole good vs bad thing. Therefore I would like to attach this:

On the evil side of things, I would like to propose a more diverse differentiation for the bad guys too:

Bandits that prey on innocents but do not prey on fellow bandits should stay as is.

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FERAL

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Bandits that however attack anyone, should be designated „feral“. These would be outcasts even among criminals.

For that I would suggest more different variables:

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Bandit honor

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Basically humanity for bandits. If it drops below a certain amount, the bandit becomes feral.

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Rewarding longevity

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Another point I would like to suggest is to reward longevity of a player. For example for every so and so playing hours a player survives he gets PURELY COSMETICAL rewards, in form of a more bearded looking character and cooler looking „rambo“ survivor skin.

This would be a nice visual representation to other players and a way to reflect high survival skill so everyone can see.

For example, when people form groups, these guy would instantly be reconized as leaders.

These would be applied to all newly proposed „factions“

Innocents

Cops

Bandits

Feral Bandits

Depending on technical limits of the game, there could be several levels of survival ratings to represent on the model, each with its own appropriate name:

Innocents ( Amount of time survived)

1 – Fish

2 – Survivor

3 - Veteran

Cops (Amount of good deeds done)

1 – Carebear

2 – Wasteland Cop

3 – Pathfinder

Bandits (Being hostile towards non-bandits)

1 – Outlaw

2 – Murderer

3 – Bandit Lord

Feral Bandits (Being hostile to anyone else)

1 – Feral Dog

2 – Hyena

3 – Lunatic

Again I would like to state these should be purely cosmetical rewards for everyone to see. No bonus stats or whatever.

They would be an extre incentive to stay alive and offer the gratification of making good performance visible to other players (who can not see your stats obviously)

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UPDATE MAY 15

After a discussion in another topic (http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2345) I came up with this idea:

Rewarding "saints" with a paratrooper spawn. They would not spawn on the beach but instead spawn on a chute somewhere over the island, with slightly different, not better gear. For example a beretta pistol with one 15 round clip. And perhaps a better backpack from teh start.

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This would be the ultimate carrot for players to be good guys.|

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[godwine 2]

The whole server switching skins is already a big strain with just the current bandit skin. There area lot of bugs involved and it doesn't really enhance the gameplay enough to warrant the skin.

I'm all for a supportive attitude for good guy players, but skins is too much of a hassle and the dev time can be directed to more pressing issues.

[goldengears 1]

Honestly I kind of like the idea, so many people talk about getting rid of the bandit skin but I really enjoy it.

Some of your ideas are pretty good here, I love the Sheriff idea.

It would really help in distinguishing team players, and give "good players" something to strive for.

[Captain Kirk (DayZ) 0]

I like

Would like to see a skin for people that are really trustworthy. Like 3500 humanity or something.

I'm all for a bandit honor system where you lose honor if you kill other bandits aswell. say you get -1000 humanity and below 0 bandit honor and then you go feral.

This humanity concept is really something cool. Best part about it is that it works better then anything ive encountered in any game before. I would really like to see the devs elaborating a bit more on this concept and bringing it into depth. The way I feel now is that it is too easy to get rid of the bandit status. Once you go bandit it should take you a really long time to lose the status (say you stay bandit for 24h). Making your actions have more impact on the way people will interact with you. Also reducing the server strain since you only change skin twice every 24h

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The bandit skin is a real mess, i've seen a friend "shed" his bandit skin, and for what i understood the server spawn a new body, copy the inventory, set the player to it and delete the old body, excepted in our case the old body didn't go.

[cat (DayZ) 22]

A way to designate untrustworthy players (=murderers) is absolutely necessary. Because if there was no way to tell if someone is trustworthy or not, I would rather shoot anyone on sight instead of risking to lose my high end gear to a random guy with makarov.

[voodooactual 58]

Though, for instance, I have a bandit skin. if I had, say, 5 blood bags and helped 5 of my clan mates with transfusions, and I got put as a cop/good skin, then wouldn't I be shown as "trustworthy", yet I could have the same intentions of a bandit?

I mean, good idea, don't get me wrong, I'm grateful you put it out there, but surely somebody would almost "pad" to get the skin then go round screwing people who thought they were friendly

[Time Glitch 453]

I have never played this game, but I can already tell you that branding anyone as anything other than a player is a bad idea. Why? The sense of mystery and urgency is lost. If you know someone's a bandit, you shoot. If you know they're a protector, you'll ask for help. With no player designations, it becomes much more organic and trust must be built. It provides very tense situations, and subsequently the bonds you do foster will be stronger, and the memories better.

Example:

New system: You run across another player. They're a "cop", as you put it. You run over and ask them for help. They probably give it to you, maybe you join them, and done is done.

No designations system: You run across another player. You see them, they don't see you. You're wary to engage. You watch their actions to see if they're alone, part of a pack, and if they kill other players. You shadow them until you're more confident that they aren't a killer.

You decide you want to approach them. You get closer to them, still hoping to not alert them. You put in chat or your mic: "I have my sights on you. Do not move if you want to live. Do not turn around. I'm willing to work together but I need to know if I can trust you. If you want to be friendly, lower your weapon. If you just have a pistol, salute."

You wait for a response. They lower their weapon or salute.

"Okay, turn around and lets talk. I will also lower my weapon. Do not raise yours or point it at me, otherwise I will fire. Do you understand?"

You have a conversation with this person. They tell you their story. Ask them what they've done in the past few minutes. They aren't lying, that's one level of trust. After a while, you maybe trade supplies or even decide to travel together.

Do you see how much more intense and real that was? It wasn't "This color good, this color bad."

[cat (DayZ) 22]

You have to play the game then to see. In reality even before you can finish that sentence "Hey are you friendly...." you will be already dead.

If there was no bandit skin, I would shoot ANYONE on sight simply because I do not want to lose my rare gear which I gathered by traveling kilometers to a player who just freshly respawned and wants a shortcut to better gear.

Not going to risk it.

You only have to land one headshot with the most basic pistol and that is it. You might never read the name of who shot you. You respawn kilometers away from the site of the murder.

The game WILL deterioriate to pure kill or be killed if you remove bandit skins. Because there is no more risk or consequence to playing as bandit.

By letting anyone come into killing distance you put a huge amount of risk on your side and make it super easy and effortless for anyone to kill you

Besides, if you salute you can not fire your weapon for two seconds.

[naizarak 41]

good ideas, but the problem is that skins can't be easily modded into this game. the current skins are all default arma ones, none of them have been custom-made

[cat (DayZ) 22]

There is probably 100 million* different custom models for this game, which you can easily verify by browsing your favorite arma2 modding site. And even if no custom models are introduced, ARMA2 itself offers many different existing models to use

*number exaggerated a tiny bit for dramatic effect

[Mandra (DayZ) 0]

This is interesting, but isn't the entire good guy bad guy opinion relative on people's situations. You mark someone as a bandit but he just shot you for food because he or his best buddy is near death. Maybe you didn't have food, maybe he has everything and you have nothing. One should never know this, unless its between your friends.

I think there shouldn't be any skins that change depending on kills. Since this is so close to how it probably would be in reality if people had to steal from people in order to survive, it would be quietly chaotic as it is in this mod.

Moments like these should never be fair.

The best part is, what you cant see is far more scarier than what you can see.

If you give someone an outfit that defines their play style, then why not put spot lights over zombies so you can see them at night.

let it be as brutal as it is.

Allow it to be as real as it is.

-As far as skins go, maybe you can find clothing to keep you warmer, or else you'll move slower because you get colder?

-Perhaps, the clothing/armor you find stays on you as is, so every time you log back in, it doesn't change.

-Maybe you have to change your socks and shoes/boots to be able to run for a longer time. Perhaps there is a stamina meter that is partly governed by the type of stuff you're wearing and its condition.

Side note:

-What if female models were added for female players' immersion?

[Leechman 8]

The idea of "good" behaviour is very subjective.

It;s safer to leave it as is.

[cat (DayZ) 22]

I think there are very clear-cut good-guy actions one can commit, like giving blood or treating a wounded player.

[The Killing Joke 43]

I challenge each and every person who likes the Bandit skin, or who has an idea regarding how to promote 'good players' to provide a list of benefits to how their idea benefits those branded as bandits. If you cannot, then you are segregating a section of the player base, and removing abilities that they (AND YOU) have, and it is not fair.

You can say, "but it's not fair that they can kill anyone they want and get away with it scott free!" And you would be WRONG. Why? Because you can do THE EXACT SAME THING.

I'm not saying there's no inherently jerky people out there - there are. But, there are also survivors out there who defend themselves against those bad guys, and then they are being branded as bandits. How fair is it to them? They lose their teammates, and then they can't join new ones because they defended themselves?

It's not good. It needs to go.

TKJ

[cat (DayZ) 22]

No bandit skin ----->Deathmatch on a 16x16km area

[ceru15@hotmail.com 0]

Moments like these should never be fair.

The best part is' date=' what you cant see is far more scarier than what you can see.

If you give someone an outfit that defines their play style, then why not put spot lights over zombies so you can see them at night.

Side note:

-What if female models were added for female players' immersion?

[/quote']

Real quick on the female model idea; females in Arma II are unable to wield and fire a gun. A mod (there are a few) could change this to basically rig a female model to have the male animations...

Towards the whole, 'The bandit might be helping his buddy out so he kills another survivor for supplies.' This isn't usually the case. Most of the time it's more of,

'Hey, when a survivor comes out let's shoot him. Let's f***ing kill him for his supplies because I'm portrayed as doing such... besides I want to grief; at least in the Alpha.'

The idea of having a cop-skin could easily be a negative. You'll find someone who looks and seems friendly with a, 'holy-skin' who is actually griefing with his/her bandit buddies to lure in survivors. How many times have you found a survivor that you don't want to kill because you want positive humanity (most likely he/she wants to stay a survivor as well) and then a bandit pops-up attacking you? I've had it done twice to me.

[cat (DayZ) 22]

That problem is adressed by only allowing players with very high humanity levels (so high you can only reach it by extensive carebearing) to become a cop. So if you see a guy with a cop uniform, that is proof that he is an extraordinary good guy

[The Killing Joke 43]

That problem is adressed by only allowing players with very high humanity levels (so high you can only reach it by extensive carebearing) to become a cop. So if you see a guy with a cop uniform' date=' that is proof that he is an extraordinary good guy.[/quote']

Congratulations! You've just made this guy A TARGET. And again, WITHOUT HIS CONSENT!

I'm sure he's going to thank you when he suddenly pops into his new, glowing white skin with that shiny, silver star (euphemism) and becomes the target for EVERYBODY, bad guy and good guy alike. He can effectively lead his team to victory knowing that he's so amazingly awesome at being nice, that he's the first guy to get in someone's crosshairs.

You've essentially made the opposing scale of the Bandit. You've 'rewarded' (HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! REWARDED!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!) him for his good by branding him. Nice work.

I guess it's true. No good deed goes unpunished!

TKJ

[ceru15@hotmail.com 0]

That problem is adressed by only allowing players with very high humanity levels (so high you can only reach it by extensive carebearing) to become a cop. So if you see a guy with a cop uniform' date=' that is proof that he is an extraordinary good guy

[/quote']

You mean like a survivor carebearing bandit buddies and never having to kill other survivors?

[cat (DayZ) 22]

Well a wasteland cop walking around with a group of bandits unharmed should give you a hint.

[The Killing Joke 43]

Well a wasteland cop walking around with a group of bandits unharmed should give you a hint.

I see a lot of ideas' date=' but not a lot of follow-up to back it up. How can you say, with a straight face, that a group of bandits are ever going to be able to successfully defend against a lone sniper with massive skills? Once the group waltzes into town, the sniper is just going to hone in and say, "Oh look, five bandits in black skins and ONE supercop in white. Hmm, who shall I shoot?"

I just don't see it as being feasible.

Now, if you would like to make it an unlockable skin, fueled by player choice, we can talk. For me, I would NEVER choose to wear it. There's a line in the movie, "A Few Good Men" regarding the 'dress white' uniform that they wear when they're driving in the jeep. One of the enlisted mentions camo for the drive, and when asked, he explains:

[i']"Yes sir, we'll be riding pretty close to the fence line. The Cubans see an officer wearing white, they think it might be someone they'd wanna take a shot at."

There's a reason why this isn't a smart idea. I'm sorry I have to quote a movie to prove it.

TKJ

[cat (DayZ) 22]

Well the game needs a way to distinguish between good guys and bad guys. Right now there is only bad guys (bandits), and guys that are not trustworthy(survivors). And if you want to have ANY meaningful player interaction that is not limited to killing each other then you need to:

1. Reward good guys

2. Provide a trustable visual cue (=cop skin)

Right now I have some very advanced gear and I am far up in the north. If I have any human approach me or see me I will high tail into the woods or shoot the guy if I can see he has long range weapons. Not because I want to be a bandit, but because I want to be safe.

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After a discussion in another topic (http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2345) I came up with this idea:

Rewarding "saints" with a paratrooper spawn. They would not spawn on the beach but instead spawn on a chute somewhere over the island, with slightly different, not better gear. For example a beretta pistol with one 15 round clip. And perhaps a better backpack from teh start.

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This would be the ultimate carrot for players to be good guys.|

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[cat (DayZ) 22]

Also humanity comes back way too fast.

[ChapYurin 3]

I suggest to become a good guy you need like 10k level of humanity, not less, it must be long hard way.