Why is pvp and gunfights so bad in stand alone?

[Etherious 907]

Turn your mouse sensitivity down?

*sigh* I just said I have done that.

[Zedertone 378]

*sigh* I just said I have done that.

Didn't see. o;

[anullu 12]

like the system. always hit my targets. dont get the problem....

[Sutinen 635]

*sigh* I just said I have done that.

I had that same problem but I added a little bit of "smoothing" and now it aims right where I want. Just a small amount of smoothing.

 

And yes, it still sucks. Too much dispersion. Did they already remove the iron sight zoom? Because the only gun I have found was the .22 and it still zooms in when I aim.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Sutinen

[gibonez 3633]

I had that same problem but I added a little bit of "smoothing" and now it aims right where I want. Just a small amount of smoothing.

 

And yes, it still sucks. Too much dispersion. Did they already remove the iron sight zoom? Because the only gun I have found was the .22 and it still zooms in when I aim.

 

In exp they brought back the iron sight zoom and unzoom ability.

 

So now iron sights are useful at 10m but are also useful at 300-500m.

 

Gives irons alot of versatility. It is one good improvement.

[gacsibeni 5]

I love the gun sounds and the feeling that when people shoot in this game it says 'shit's going down'.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

One thing that needs fixing in standalone when it comes to shooting is the patching of the current widespread FoV abuse which is being used to gain extra magnification when shooting over range: It gives a pretty sizable advantage to people with a looser sense of sportsmanship.

 

Besides that, I like the idea of better weapon resting: I don't see why I need to be lay prone to gain a benefit from my bipod, why shouldn't kneeling behind a small wall work just as effectively?

 

Bullet damage across the board needs to be MUCH higher, to better replicate real life wound properties. Larger caliber rounds should producer higher tiers of bleeding, as should rounds which hit the chest with lower (but still substantial) tiers of bleeding for the arms or legs and high tier bleeding should be much harder to stop that it is currently. Getting shot with 5 rounds should also produce more bleeding which should harder to stop than getting shot with just 1 round of the same caliber.

 

M4 and pistol accuracy and dispersion need a tightening up substantially, I'm not sure why the m4 is so much less accurate than the SKS carbine and pistols are much less accurate than their real world counterparts, too.

 

The shotgun needs fixing so it's useful, I've seen people eat two barrels from a sawn-off at point blank range and get away with minor injuries and ruined gear.

 

The Mosin (and future bolt action rifles) need a system where the first click fires a round, then the second click cycles the bolt and chambers the next round, currently it's a pain to spot where your bullet landed in relation to your target due the automated working of the bolt moving the weapon around right after the shot is fired.

 

Weapon ranging should be able to go higher than 300 on ironsights and certainly with items like the PU scope attached.

 

The PU scope should be adjusted to be 4.5 times magnification, rather than the current 3.5.

 

The Long range scope should be changed to a 3d scope, instead of just being an overlay.

 

Optics need adding for the blaze 95 and it needs to be adjusted to fire a single rifle round and a single shotgun round, with selectable modes.

 

I'd really like to see the long range scope removed from the Mosin and instead be compatible with the blaze95, since if I remember correctly, the Mosin cannot usually mount that type of scope without modification, but the blaze can. That would also raise the skill level required for sniping, since you'd be unable to fire 5 rounds fairly rapidly at a target.. you'd instead have to make very sure to land your first shot and coupled with the adjustment to the PU scope and ranging system, would give more options for long range combat and force people to choose between an 8x scope and 1 (or 2, depending on if they implement my shotgun shell/rifle combo suggestion) rounds or a 4.5x scope and 5 rounds, or 10 lower velocity rounds in the case of the SKS. With these adjustments, long range combat would be possible with the PU SKS, ACOG m4, Mosin PU and Blaze LRS combos, all with very different weapon and bullet dynamics, SKS users would need to lead their targets more heavily than Mosin users and Blaze users would have more magnification, but far fewer rounds than the other options.

Edited April 21, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

Haven't you already started like 5 identical threads? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQJf5vKI

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

 

If this is what you are referring to it looks like a pretty lousy system, and nothing like RO.  The gun isn't even interacting with the environment, it's just getting a bonus and "sticking" to objects.

In case you haven't noticed, the SA isn't about half-assing in new systems like a mod.  They'd most likely have to redesign all the interiors.  When was the last time you actually stuck your gun out a window in dayz?  I don't just mean aim out it, but actually stick your gun out it.  Also consider how many objects in the world you actually shoot over in a scenario where it would be appropriate to rest your gun on them.  There really aren't a lot, the map isn't designed with using cover in that regard in mind.

 

Red Orchestra is built from the ground up with that mechanic in mind is all I'm saying, and while it would be cool

 

 

seems like a huge oversimplification.

 

Well........I guess it come down to the personal understanding of half-assing 

[gibonez 3633]

Well........I guess it come down to the personal understanding of half-assing 

 

I still don't know how the mod in the video is half assing it.

 

It looks like a working mod that does a good job emulating weapon resting and bipod deployment.

[Sutinen 635]

One thing that needs fixing in standalone when it comes to shooting is the patching of the current widespread FoV abuse which is being used to gain extra magnification when shooting over range: It gives a pretty sizable advantage to people with a looser sense of sportsmanship.

 

Besides that, I like the idea of better weapon resting: I don't see why I need to be lay prone to gain a benefit from my bipod, why shouldn't kneeling behind a small wall work just as effectively?

 

Bullet damage across the board needs to be MUCH higher, to better replicate real life wound properties. Larger caliber rounds should producer higher tiers of bleeding, as should rounds which hit the chest with lower (but still substantial) tiers of bleeding for the arms or legs and high tier bleeding should be much harder to stop that it is currently. Getting shot with 5 rounds should also produce more bleeding which should harder to stop than getting shot with just 1 round of the same caliber.

 

M4 and pistol accuracy and dispersion need a tightening up substantially, I'm not sure why the m4 is so much less accurate than the SKS carbine and pistols are much less accurate than their real world counterparts, too.

 

The shotgun needs fixing so it's useful, I've seen people eat two barrels from a sawn-off at point blank range and get away with minor injuries and ruined gear.

 

The Mosin (and future bolt action rifles) need a system where the first click fires a round, then the second click cycles the bolt and chambers the next round, currently it's a pain to spot where your bullet landed in relation to your target due the automated working of the bolt moving the weapon around right after the shot is fired.

 

Weapon ranging should be able to go higher than 300 on ironsights and certainly with items like the PU scope attached.

 

The PU scope should be adjusted to be 4.5 times magnification, rather than the current 3.5.

 

The Long range scope should be changed to a 3d scope, instead of just being an overlay.

 

Optics need adding for the blaze 95 and it needs to be adjusted to fire a single rifle round and a single shotgun round, with selectable modes.

 

I'd really like to see the long range scope removed from the Mosin and instead be compatible with the blaze95, since if I remember correctly, the Mosin cannot usually mount that type of scope without modification, but the blaze can. That would also raise the skill level required for sniping, since you'd be unable to fire 5 rounds fairly rapidly at a target.. you'd instead have to make very sure to land your first shot and coupled with the adjustment to the PU scope and ranging system, would give more options for long range combat and force people to choose between an 8x scope and 1 (or 2, depending on if they implement my shotgun shell/rifle combo suggestion) rounds or a 4.5x scope and 5 rounds, or 10 lower velocity rounds in the case of the SKS. With these adjustments, long range combat would be possible with the PU SKS, ACOG m4, Mosin PU and Blaze LRS combos, all with very different weapon and bullet dynamics, SKS users would need to lead their targets more heavily than Mosin users and Blaze users would have more magnification, but far fewer rounds than the other options.

I haven't tried it out but does the lowest FOV allow you to zoom more or does it zoom further than the normal zoom? Because the way to fix that is just higher the FOV until it's on par with the zoom. That way they don't really benefit from it.

[StopChewingMyLegDude 3]

While I've had some great fights in dayz before that I would've never head in any other shooter, most of my fights I don't find that fun in general. It's usually either an easy kill of my opponent or an unexpected "you are dead" black screen while I'm minding my own business. Or a tedious waiting game when we wait until one of us makes a move eventually. If I really want to compete with someone in fighting I usually go play some other game.

[Katana67 2907]

There are a lot of factors that weigh in on how I feel about DayZ/ARMA's shooting.

 

Chief amongst which, is the RAMPANT use of graphics settings to gain a distinct advantage in-game. ATOC, Gamma, FOV, etc. All features which people cite as "core to the PC experience" blindly without taking into consideration the very real and tangible detriments to gameplay. I like that it's hard to spot players, but when people are on a tilted playing field just through turning off something as inane as ATOC, it ruins the experience for me.

 

Second, is the character movement. I can't really describe it, other than to say it's clunky. I still (this is insanely controversial) say that CoD has the best movement and point-shooting mechanic out there. Pure and simple, it works, it's snappy, and it's WYSIWYG. I haven't played CoD since MW2, so don't act as if I'm some insane fanboy... prease. I'm not saying DayZ should have, or needs, a movement/shooting system like CoD. I'm merely using it as a counter-example. Somewhere in the middle I'd imagine is where it needs to be (this also doesn't take into account the ballistics simulation of DayZ/ARMA which I like). When I'm doing drills on the range, I'm not fumbling over my own feet just to engage a target, it's quick. So I'm not entirely sure ARMA is any more realistic in terms of movement and aiming than anything else.

 

Third, is just some of the odd quirks of Alpha. Such as the inclusion of "spread" at odd distances/rates, and the damage of certain weapons (mainly the M4).

 

Fourth, is the "out of breath sway." I'm not having a seizure when I run 100m and shoot at something in the real world. Again, might be better as-is for pragmatic gameplay reasons, but it sure is annoying to have to wait for my character to calm down just to shoot something at 50m in-game.

 

Forgot to add a fifth, metagaming. The use of TS to relay positions post mortem to your massive clan. Ghosting. All that jazz.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Katana67

[minime1000 78]

Well it is a 3rd person shooter and they always have kinda iffy gunplay.

[blackberrygoo 1416]

To me it's somewhat the same , I have to say though that the standalone is a little "wonky" , probly because its the start of the developers making a great aiming / shooting system . The mouse acceleration ,now fixed on experimental , makes pinpoint aiming much better. and when they add correct sway and weight of weapons the movement will feel more realistic.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I haven't tried it out but does the lowest FOV allow you to zoom more or does it zoom further than the normal zoom? Because the way to fix that is just higher the FOV until it's on par with the zoom. That way they don't really benefit from it.

Yeah quiet a lot more zoom in fact and abuse of that is very, very wide spread.

[frosti 2165]

Yeah quiet a lot more zoom in fact and abuse of that is very, very wide spread.

FOV abuser reporting in.

 

And I love it with abusing FOV I have sight like an Hawk.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

There are a lot of factors that weigh in on how I feel about DayZ/ARMA's shooting.

 

Chief amongst which, is the RAMPANT use of graphics settings to gain a distinct advantage in-game. ATOC, Gamma, FOV, etc. All features which people cite as "core to the PC experience" blindly without taking into consideration the very real and tangible detriments to gameplay. I like that it's hard to spot players, but when people are on a tilted playing field just through turning off something as inane as ATOC, it ruins the experience for me.

 

Second, is the character movement. I can't really describe it, other than to say it's clunky. I still (this is insanely controversial) say that CoD has the best movement and point-shooting mechanic out there. Pure and simple, it works, it's snappy, and it's WYSIWYG. I haven't played CoD since MW2, so don't act as if I'm some insane fanboy... prease. I'm not saying DayZ should have, or needs, a movement/shooting system like CoD. I'm merely using it as a counter-example. Somewhere in the middle I'd imagine is where it needs to be (this also doesn't take into account the ballistics simulation of DayZ/ARMA which I like). When I'm doing drills on the range, I'm not fumbling over my own feet just to engage a target, it's quick. So I'm not entirely sure ARMA is any more realistic in terms of movement and aiming than anything else.

 

Third, is just some of the odd quirks of Alpha. Such as the inclusion of "spread" at odd distances/rates, and the damage of certain weapons (mainly the M4).

 

Fourth, is the "out of breath sway." I'm not having a seizure when I run 100m and shoot at something in the real world. Again, might be better as-is for pragmatic gameplay reasons, but it sure is annoying to have to wait for my character to calm down just to shoot something at 50m in-game.

 

Forgot to add a fifth, metagaming. The use of TS to relay positions post mortem to your massive clan. Ghosting. All that jazz.

Corpse running. Don't forget that, that's a major one.

[skypig 139]

if I want gun play I go to red orchestra 2..

I wish bi would hire on some tripwire people

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

I still don't know how the mod in the video is half assing it.

 

It looks like a working mod that does a good job emulating weapon resting and bipod deployment.

The mod does a better job at emulating weapon resting then dayz does for implementing melee. 

 

if I want gun play I go to red orchestra 2..

I wish bi would hire on some tripwire people

 

Red orchestra's gun play is just so good. Really hard to describe the satisfaction of playing that game. 

[GenTroy (DayZ) 22]

While this isn't technically "Gun Play".  IMO one of the biggest determents to firefights in SA is the gun sound effects.  I know they are scheduled to be fixed later on in development, so I'm not complaining. 

In the mod, the guns sounded dangerous, and masculine, and those sound effects really added to the gun fight.  We all know how scary it sounded when you heard a whistle and then a rifle crack, you knew the shit was about to hit the fan.  Sound effects have a huge effect on the way it feels to get into a shootout, as of now the sounds in the SA are just filler and don't have the same effect as they did in the mod. 

 

When the real final sounds are added in, I believe it will greatly enhance the way it "feels" to be in a gun fight.

[tsandrey 379]

Lame gun sounds? High player HP?

[gibonez 3633]

Lame gun sounds? High player HP?

 

Players had high player hp in the mod and the gun sounds were lame too but the gunplay was sooo much better.

 

I think the problem is consistency.

 

Currently their is 0 consistency in anything related to pvp.

 

1 shot to the chest of one player can kill him or it can take 5 shots nobody knows its totally random.

 

Clothing soaking up damage is a terrible mechanic as it leads to even more inconsistency.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Players had high player hp in the mod and the gun sounds were lame too but the gunplay was sooo much better.

 

I think the problem is consistency.

 

Currently their is 0 consistency in anything related to pvp.

 

1 shot to the chest of one player can kill him or it can take 5 shots nobody knows its totally random.

 

Clothing soaking up damage is a terrible mechanic as it leads to even more inconsistency.

the only clothing that SHOULD effect ballistic damage are items which are designed to absorb ballistic impacts, like the ballistics helmet.

 

The fact that a tshirt helps reduce bullet damage is absolutely stupid.

[gibonez 3633]

the only clothing that SHOULD effect ballistic damage are items which are designed to absorb ballistic impacts, like the ballistics helmet.

 

The fact that a tshirt helps reduce bullet damage is absolutely stupid.

 

Pretty much.

 

Even then the kevlar vest should absorb pistol rounds and lower yet somehow are able to absorb some of the damage for even 7.62 and 5.56 rounds at close range.