Weapons need to spawn with atleast 1 magazine in them.

[gibonez 3633]

The majority of the weapons in the game are rendered useless because of one simple misshap.

 

They do not spawn with magazines or do not have a magazine in them.

 

This small problem has lead to the prefered weapons in the game being weapons with either A no magazines or B internal magazines.

 

weapons like the sporter 22, semi automatic pistols and others are rendered pretty useless .

 

This makes no sense on multiple levels primarily because it makes no sense to find a weapon when looting and not finding ammo or magazines for the weapon nearby since these tend to be stored together.

 

 

Until the game starts spawning magazines next to or in the same loot spawn as the weapon they will be rendered pretty useless.

 

 

[Jfiles 439]

I was unaware a gun always has a mag or spare bullets in an apocalypse. But NO. God no. it ruins everything. It lets new spawns just find a simple sporter, unlike a destroyed world, to find a weapon with ammo to kill someone who has worked for their gear. So, again. NO. 

[amiasfree 262]

Agreed somewhat, I'd rather have it random; some may have mags that are empty or with only a couple rounds in it, some without mags, some ruined or damaged instead of pristine etc. 

 

^Freshspawns can already kill you easily with their fists. Or farming hoe, sickle, shovel, pickaxe (which I just found for the first time today) and it goes on :P Besides, once they find a gun with ammo they aren't freshies anymore imo.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Amias Free

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I think it's fine the way it is, weapons spawning with a mag in it only serves to help one type of player. The type who spawns fresh and runs straight to the office in Berezino to deathmach. Besides, you'll just find people with that gun will just take the magazine anyway.

[gibonez 3633]

I was unaware a gun always has a mag or spare bullets in an apocalypse. But NO. God no. it ruins everything. It lets new spawns just find a simple sporter, unlike a destroyed world, to find a weapon with ammo to kill someone who has worked for their gear. So, again. NO. 

 

Think of how you store your weapons or where weapons are stored ?

 

Usually weapons are stored near the magazines for that weapon.

 

the current implementation makes little to no sense. Find an empty sporter in a house then find sporter magazines in tents at a military base ? how does that make any sense.

 

More importantly this mechanic makes alot of the weapons pretty useless the sporter in particular a weapon that should be more popular due to the sheer availability of its ammo is almost never used mainly because of the scarcity of its magazines.

 

Notice I did not mention the m4 that is mainly because magazines always spawn where m4s usually spawn, usually an m4 is found in a military spawn and magazines for the weapon are usually close by.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

The majority of the weapons in the game are rendered useless because of one simple misshap.

 

They do not spawn with magazines or do not have a magazine in them.

 

This small problem has lead to the prefered weapons in the game being weapons with either A no magazines or B internal magazines.

 

weapons like the sporter 22, semi automatic pistols and others are rendered pretty useless .

 

This makes no sense on multiple levels primarily because it makes no sense to find a weapon when looting and not finding ammo or magazines for the weapon nearby since these tend to be stored together.

 

 

Until the game starts spawning magazines next to or in the same loot spawn as the weapon they will be rendered pretty useless.

I made a thread about the .22 pistol and rifle magazines in suggestions a while back, recommending they move the magazines into civilian loot pools, it seemed generally well received and would more or less solve your concerns i think.

 

Acolyte said he'd poke a few people and see what could be done about the issue, anyway... so hopefully the civilian weapons will see more use in the future if something like that comes in.

 

As for weapons spawning with magazines already in them, I wouldn't mind seeing M4s or pistols with empty magazines but in worn/damaged/badly damaged condition (as if the owner had died after running out of rounds after a pitched battle with zeds) on the floors in barracks and military builds, as a fairly rare drop and having the stored M4s under bunks spawn without magazines but in better condition.  Would feel realistic, but for the sake of balance would need to be in very limited numbers.

 

As for making all weapons spawn with magazines, I'd prefer we avoid that.. Generally gun owners don't store their ammo, magazines and firearm in the same location and you wouldn't keep a loaded weapon in a barracks under your bunk, that'd be a great way to get a section 8.

 

Anyway, we already have the SKS, Mosin, Blaze, 357 magnum, and the shotgun/sawnoff that don't require magazines, if they move the 10 round 10/22 and .22 pistol magazines into the same spawn pools as blaze/shotgun and revolver speed loaders, I think that's more than enough. I do think it's silly that .22 magazines currently only spawn in military loot pools, but I don't see the need to spawn the weapons with a magazine already in them.

Edited April 18, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[DirtyWings 51]

If they do this im quitting DayZ... Giving a mag with the gun will create even more KOS.. this isn't call of duty..

[teapot156 79]

1.The majority of the weapons in the game are rendered useless because of one simple misshap.

 

They do not spawn with magazines or do not have a magazine in them.

 

2.This small problem has lead to the prefered weapons in the game being weapons with either A no magazines or B internal magazines.

 

3.weapons like the sporter 22, semi automatic pistols and others are rendered pretty useless .

 

4This makes no sense on multiple levels primarily because it makes no sense to find a weapon when looting and not finding ammo or magazines for the weapon nearby since these tend to be stored together.

 

 

Until the game starts spawning magazines next to or in the same loot spawn as the weapon they will be rendered pretty useless.

1. Not true, you can chamber a single round. You also still give the impression of being armed should you need that impression.

2. Yeah, that happens but it's not nessessarly a bad thing.

3.Again, you can still chamber a single round.

4.That's operating under the assumption that these weapons are in storage and arent just abandoned. I don't think routine storage for an AR is to place it under the bed.

 

Gotta disagree with most of this gibonez, sorry. That being said, I know you focus on the realism aspect and care about that the most which is cool.

[-Gews- 7443]

Generally gun owners don't store their ammo, magazines and firearm in the same location

Generaly gun owners don't store their ammo a half-mile down the road in their neighbour Yevgeny's house and their magazines above some shelves near a grand piano three blocks over.

The magazines should have a good chance to spawn in the guns, or around the guns. It makes little sense never finding a magazine near a gun. The mod had a good chance of spawning magazines near guns, it made sense. The ammo should be the stuff that's harder to come by.

Personally I don't care about the KoS argument, having the game follow logic and make sense is more important than preventing folks from finding magazines at all costs.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Gews

[gibonez 3633]

If they do this im quitting DayZ... Giving a mag with the gun will create even more KOS.. this isn't call of duty..

 

It is the only logical thing to do.

 

Right in in game for instance I just dropped an m4 with magpul parts and an acog for a blaze 95 why you might ask ?

 

simply because the b95 can be used right away and has a 2 round capacity.

 

I am not asking they include fully loaded weapons in the loot pool

 

What I am asking is doesn't it make sense to remove magazines completely as a loot item and have them spawn within the same spawn as the main weapon itself.

 

I personally store my weapons with the magazines for the weapons right there with them not loaded but in close vicinity.

 

Looting a house that has a pistol this is what I would expect hidden in a desk or in a cabinet.

 

not a handgun alone with no magazines to be found anywhere.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Generaly gun owners don't store their ammo a half-mile down the road in their neighbour Yevgeny's house and their magazines above some shelves near a grand piano three blocks over.

The magazines should have a good chance to spawn in the guns, or around the guns. It makes little sense never finding a magazine near a gun. The mod had a good chance of spawning magazines near guns, it made sense. The ammo should be the stuff that's harder to come by.

Personally I don't care about the KoS argument, having the game follow logic and make sense is more important than preventing folks from finding magazines at all costs.

which is why I suggested .22 magazines should spawn in the same locations as speedloaders/snaploaders for the shotguns, blaze95 and 357 revolver, most of the places that can spawn .22 rifles also have the potential to spawn those items, such as the office buildings, piano house and construction sites.

Edited April 19, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Katana67 2907]

I'm okay with them spawning without mags, makes looting a bit more of a challenge.

 

I'd be more in favor of it if magazines spawned empty, but they don't. So maybe further down the line. Many firearm owners don't store their magazines loaded, as it can wear out the springs. I know I don't store my AR magazines fully loaded, or loaded at all.

 

It's fun trying to scrounge ammo and find magazines. Getting your weapon up to snuff is a puzzle, and I like that. Yet another example of a so-called "unrealistic" example making for more interesting gameplay.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

It's fun trying to scrounge ammo and find magazines. Getting your weapon up to snuff is a puzzle, and I like that. Yet another example of a so-called "unrealistic" example making for more interesting gameplay.

 

Sure in theory but what actually happens is modern weapons such as the m4 are being dropped and ignored in favor of 100 year old rifles such as the mosin and revolver simply due to their internal "magazines"

[teapot156 79]

Many firearm owners don't store their magazines loaded, as it can wear out the springs.

Off topic but just to let you know that isn't true.

A spring under compression doesn't wear out. The spring wears out from actually being used because the material itself becomes stressed.

[Katana67 2907]

Sure in theory but what actually happens is modern weapons such as the m4 are being dropped and ignored in favor of 100 year old rifles such as the mosin and revolver simply due to their internal "magazines"

 

I've never dropped an M4 for a Mosin. I suspect the main reason that people do, is that the Mosin can mount the LRS, and deals more damage, and is more accurate. I'm not sure that's the reality, or even a prevalent reality. It's just as anecdotal as my example.

 

I've never had an issue finding magazines for anything other than the FNX. They're everywhere.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Sure in theory but what actually happens is modern weapons such as the m4 are being dropped and ignored in favor of 100 year old rifles such as the mosin and revolver simply due to their internal "magazines"

I think the problem is more that by the time people find a magazine for a .22 rifle, silenced pistol or even a 1911 they're already at a military location and they're swimming in m4 magazines and rifles.

[Katana67 2907]

Off topic but just to let you know that isn't true.

A spring under compression doesn't wear out. The spring wears out from actually being used because the material itself becomes stressed.

 

I mean my first PMAG that I used to store loaded started to feed improperly after a year or so of sitting in a gun cabinet. Replaced the spring and it fed fine. Had the same happen with standard USGI mags. I started storing mine either empty, or with 5-15 rounds in.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Even now this may not be a total problem but imagine in the future once the game is feature and content complete.

 

Do we really want to look for the proprietary magazines for the potential dozens upon dozens of firearms added in the game ?

 

Does that not seem like a waste of loot spots.

 

Also for katana say they do add one of those fancy smangshy guns you like the scar for instance, it would ideally have an ultra ultra rare loot chance right.

 

What good would that scar be when the magazines for that weapon are also ultra ultra rare ensuring that the chances of ever finding the weapon + magazines for said weapon are astronomically impossible.

 

I still think the best solution is to eliminate magazines as a loot completely and spawn the weapons with 2 or more empty magazines. Stream lines the process more.

[Katana67 2907]

Even now this may not be a total problem but imagine in the future once the game is feature and content complete.

 

Do we really want to look for the proprietary magazines for the potential dozens upon dozens of firearms added in the game ?

 

Does that not seem like a waste of loot spots.

 

Also for katana say they do add one of those fancy smangshy guns you like the scar for instance, it would ideally have an ultra ultra rare loot chance right.

 

What good would that scar be when the magazines for that weapon are also ultra ultra rare ensuring that the chances of ever finding the weapon + magazines for said weapon are astronomically impossible.

 

I still think the best solution is to eliminate magazines as a loot completely and spawn the weapons with 2 or more empty magazines. Stream lines the process more.

 

Sounds great! Having to actually scrounge for rare magazines for my rare rifle sounds to be a great way of actually balancing the weapon in terms of (again) rarity. Not to mention it's fun to be searching for rare loot, magazines included.

 

And to you... who worships "appropriate" weapons, over "tacticool" weapons, why do you want us folks with railed SCARs and M4s to have an easier time of maintaining our weapons? Which would be the case if they spawned with magazines.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Sounds great! Having to actually scrounge for rare magazines for my rare rifle sounds to be a great way of actually balancing the weapon in terms of (again) rarity. Not to mention it's fun to be searching for rare loot, magazines included.

 

And to you... who worships "appropriate" weapons, over "tacticool" weapons, why do you want us folks with railed SCARs and M4s to have an easier time of maintaining our weapons?

 

You would probably die before finding any magazines, if anything that would simply encourage server hopping.

 

As for your second comment I am for anything and everything that is realistic and is authentic. If you were to find a scar in a persons house or in an armory you bet your ass off there would be magazines for it nearby if not right next to it.

 

Not to mention how cluttered the game would be when they add dozens of new weapons. Finding magazines for tons of different weapons would be a mess.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Even now this may not be a total problem but imagine in the future once the game is feature and content complete.

 

Do we really want to look for the proprietary magazines for the potential dozens upon dozens of firearms added in the game ?

 

Does that not seem like a waste of loot spots.

 

Also for katana say they do add one of those fancy smangshy guns you like the scar for instance, it would ideally have an ultra ultra rare loot chance right.

 

What good would that scar be when the magazines for that weapon are also ultra ultra rare ensuring that the chances of ever finding the weapon + magazines for said weapon are astronomically impossible.

 

I still think the best solution is to eliminate magazines as a loot completely and spawn the weapons with 2 or more empty magazines. Stream lines the process more.

I doubt that will be much of an issue, IIRC AK74 and 74u use the same magazines, as do 5.56mm nato rifles due to STANAG.

 

I'm pretty sure the SCAR uses a STANAG mag, right?

Edited April 19, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[gibonez 3633]

I doubt that will be much of an issue, IIRC AK74 and 74u use the same magazines, as do 5.56mm nato rifles due to STANAG.

 

Yea but does that not limit the types of weapons they have to add to the game.

 

With such a system they would be forced to putting in Ar variants or atleast stanag weapons + ak variants.

 

I doubt they will go this route or would want to go this route.

 

Chances are they will keep adding civilian weapons and most civie weapons have their own proprietary mag.

[Katana67 2907]

You would probably die before finding any magazines, if anything that would simply encourage server hopping.

 

As for your second comment I am for anything and everything that is realistic and is authentic. If you were to find a scar in a persons house or in an armory you bet your ass off there would be magazines for it nearby if not right next to it.

 

Not to mention how cluttered the game would be when they add dozens of new weapons. Finding magazines for tons of different weapons would be a mess.

 

So they shouldn't include various loot because it encourages server hopping? Again, remedy server hopping, and such concerns are rendered irrelevant. The loot in-game will never be wholly realistic, ever.

 

The player isn't finding magazines for more than two, hopefully, weapons at a time (because that's all he/she can prudently carry) so no, it wouldn't be a mess. Because the player is only concerned with finding a few types of magazines at a time, no matter how many types they add. Was this way in the mod once they made mag and weapon spawns less likely, although the magazines were easier to find overall.

 

I'm for things that are fun to me, like having to scrounge for a weapon, ammo, and magazines as separate entities. Rather than having the whole damn thing served up to me on a silver platter.

Edited April 19, 2014 by Katana67

[teapot156 79]

Even now this may not be a total problem but imagine in the future once the game is feature and content complete.

 

Do we really want to look for the proprietary magazines for the potential dozens upon dozens of firearms added in the game ?

 

Does that not seem like a waste of loot spots.

 

Also for katana say they do add one of those fancy smangshy guns you like the scar for instance, it would ideally have an ultra ultra rare loot chance right.

 

What good would that scar be when the magazines for that weapon are also ultra ultra rare ensuring that the chances of ever finding the weapon + magazines for said weapon are astronomically impossible.

 

I still think the best solution is to eliminate magazines as a loot completely and spawn the weapons with 2 or more empty magazines. Stream lines the process more.

If its for a server/client performance issues than yes definitely. As it stands, I wouldn't mind if pistol magizines were more common. I like the decision process of dropping a weapon in favor of an inferior one because one may be more viable at the moment.

[gibonez 3633]

So they shouldn't include various loot because it encourages server hopping? A

 

Well i meant it would encourage server hopping in a sense that it would be daam near impossible to find the weapon + magazines for said rare weapon using legitimate means. Thus forcing players to server hop in order to artificially increase their chances of finding the rare mags for the weapon.