Can Nothing be done about MetaGaming in Dayz?

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

I actually meant the former one you mentioned, guess I used the wrong term for it.

So you mean that wall peaking is that glitchy thing people do when they can see through walls? 

That's what I'm referring to, yeah. I'm not a fan of 3pp anyway and I do still consider using the camera angle to view around a corner or over walls abuse, but obviously much more minor abuse than using the lean and camera positioning to see through solid walls.

[bigfrak 116]

want to fix 3rd party coms easy make the in game chat all ways on and cant be turned off, just like in real life you want to be quite don't talk, that way if you are using 3rd party coms what ever you say will come threw game

[Mullraugh 1151]

3rd part voip can be solved by forcing direct to be always open and PTT(push to talk) would only be used for radio comms, reduce direct radius when using in game radios to give them an advantage over 3rd party voip.

 

You'd be running around talking to imaginary friends if the people in skype weren't playing DayZ haha.

Whatever - this is the best idea so far.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Whats that FOV exploit? never heard of it before.

 

 

Epic idea.

Setting your FoV extremely wide when playing normally, to prevent people sneaking up on you.

 

Setting your FoV extremely narrow when sniping, to provide additional magnification.

want to fix 3rd party coms easy make the in game chat all ways on and cant be turned off, just like in real life you want to be quite don't talk, that way if you are using 3rd party coms what ever you say will come threw game

No thanks, I don't want to hear people farting an burping constantly, also people would just run voip on a second system, like a laptop, tablet or smart phone and mute their in game microphone.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[[Outcasts]Massacre 121]

 

I don't see why there would be an uproar? For locking proximity chat open? Why? It would make the game more realistic - if you're talking, people around you can hear you.

 

Ok, so there are ways to work-around it, like selecting separate input devices, but not everybody would do that. Locking proximity chat open would at least get the message across that 3rd-party VOIP is regarded as an exploit. Or is that not the case? And if so, why even have in-game comms at all?

 

So what if your significant other aks you something personal? locking direct to open is a stupid idea. Realism isn't a blanket reason to force people to stop using 3th party voice programs.

Also using 3th party coms isn't a exploit as some people would have you belief.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Massacre

[Accolyte 1727]

1: Remove 3pp view

2: Lock the Gamma after a screen calibration on first launch.

 

1. You ------> Hardcore servers

2. Nothing will stop players from changing the monitor's gamma settings.

 

Yeah their are always work around, like I can call my buddies from my phone and avoid chat going through my computer all together, I still think it would reduce the issue though, like you said you would still have the option to mute your mic if you don't want your background noise to come through.(cutting you off from 3rd party chat also)

Personally I would even rather not have to flip between direct and radio channels also, 1 button push to open radio comms or just speak plainly when you want to communicate with someone in your area. May even increase verbal communication when you don't have to fumble your controls to open direct communication

 

The point is you don't have to use your phone. Just changing the sound input in game options will do the trick. And that option is kind of necessary.

 

 

Why put in walkie talkies when the majority of folks use consequence-free TS? Why care about your life when you can arrange a pickup instantly with your clan across the map?

 

Why not?

[Scott61 93]

1. pretty hard to control what people run in the background on there Pc when playing a game,and after all it is a game and if people who like to play games together can not have there own private channel to bullshit on while playing....well that is not going to go over very well in the gaming community as TS Comms or whatever is pretty standard these days in ALL games

 

2. If DayZ night cycles were not so fake looking having just ink blackness with no light at all most of the time,people would not feel the need to have to exploit gamma

in RL eyes adjust to darkness and seeing becomes easier as long as you do not poluute your eyes again with light,moonlight comes into effect,clear skies etc. and very seldom do any servers have a full moon on there night cycle which is the only DayZ night cycle that anyone can see anything.I personally like playing at night but the night cycles are so fake looking I don't bother even trying anymore.

 

3. FoV should only be adjustable once before starting the game, and not be there to access once in the game.

 

As for 3pp exploits of wall/corner looking or popping there head through a wall

If everyone can do it,it is really not a big deal IMHO things are only a problem when only one can do something and others can not

There already IS a solution for this...Play On HardCore Servers if you DO NOT like 3PP!

 

I can not understand why some people seem to feel the need to make everyone have to play HC and nobody should be allowed 3pp view

not everyone is into running around with tunnel vision throughout there whole game play,to each ther own and that is why there are Regular servers and Hardcore servers!

Always the HC guys wanting everyone else to have to be HC also,you do not like 3pp then play hardcore...simple!

[Katana67 2907]

Why not?

 

Because the in-game mechanics that I mentioned are wholly undercut by the meta-efficiency offered by third-party programs.

[Capo 323]

 Why put in walkie talkies when the majority of folks use consequence-free TS? 

 

If they increase the range and availability they'd be useful for lone wolf survivors looking for people in their area. Sort of replacing sidechat, ie "anyobody in NWAF?". hopefully that's how it works. 

[Accolyte 1727]

Because the in-game mechanics that I mentioned are wholly undercut by the meta-efficiency offered by third-party programs.

 

Many other games have VOIP and people use TS/Skype/Mumble/Vent rather than the in-game VOIP, yet it's still there.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

1. You ------> Hardcore servers

How does that fix peaking through solid walls? It happens on hardcore too, it's just far worse on 3pp. )http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=4002)

 

It also doesn't address that most new players will take the path of least resistance and go 3pp for the crutch it gives, I take it the devs haven't taken a look at the thread we had on this? :rolleyes: There are several valid arguments as to why 3pp needs major adjustment, but I won't derail this thread with them, I'd only be parroting content from another thread anyway.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Accolyte 1727]

How does that fix peaking through solid walls? It happens on hardcore too, it's just far worse on 3pp.

 

It also doesn't address that most new players will take the path of least resistance and go 3pp for the crutch it gives, I take it the devs haven't taken a look at the thread we had on this? :rolleyes: There are several valid arguments as to why 3pp needs major adjustment, but I won't derail this thread with them, I'd only be parroting content from another thread anyway.

 

Like I said already. It's being worked on, if you don't like 3pp, play on hardcore. Camera clipping is a separate issue that is not necessarily tied to 3pp itself and is being worked on.

[Katana67 2907]

Many other games have VOIP and people use TS/Skype/Mumble/Vent rather than the in-game VOIP, yet it's still there.

 

Many other games aren't DayZ though. DayZ is different, whereby the onus is placed upon the player to acquire and maintain his/her ability to do X in-game. Which underscores the detriment of "meta-gaming." Other games do not place this responsibility on the player.

 

Same can be said about in-game maps versus alt-tabbing. However, the benefits to that particular instance of metagaming are less widespread.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Katana67

[Accolyte 1727]

Many other games aren't DayZ though. DayZ is different, whereby the onus is placed upon the player to acquire and maintain his/her ability to do X in-game. Which underscores the detriment of "meta-gaming." Other games do not place this responsibility on the player.

 

Same can be said about in-game maps versus alt-tabbing. However, the benefits to that particular instance of metagaming are less widespread.

 

Taking things to an extreme: if we (somehow) prevent people from using 3rd party comms, they will use their phones instead. Will you then demand that we make it so that people aren't able to use phones while playing DayZ?

[akafugitive 244]

The point is you don't have to use your phone. Just changing the sound input in game options will do the trick. And that option is kind of necessary.

I get what you are saying, and I appreciate your input and taking part in the conversation, it's better then just throwing around theory and speculation with everyone else lol.

My point though is that you would have to take that extra step to set it up purposely instead of just being there by design, I agree that exploiters will find a way no matter what. I think there is a way to reward people who want to play legit though, and sometimes the only way to do that is to force a mechanic. If eating and drinking had great RP benefits but were not required for survival, people would just stop doing it once they were bored of it(what kills vanilla skyrim's feel for economy).

For me like I said, I would rather not even have to flip between radio/direct chat or double tap caps and see the icon on the screen in order to speak to someone I just bumped into, even at the risk of them hearing me talk over steam chat. I might be the minority In this but it's food for thought

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[hombrecz 832]

I believe devs will address FOV further down the road.

You can't do anything against usage of TeamSpeak or such, it would be a bit silly to certain degree anyways.

Night time is bad in Arma2/SA, Arma3 got it a lot better.

[pillock 850]

 

Why not?

 

Why not lock proximity chat open?

 

If the missus starts talking to you about your hemorrhoid cream in the background, you could mute the mic altogether!

[Katana67 2907]

Taking things to an extreme: if we (somehow) prevent people from using 3rd party comms, they will use their phones instead. Will you then demand that we make it so that people aren't able to use phones while playing DayZ?

 

No, and this is a common argument I hear for not even trying to mitigate the detriments of third-party comms.

 

Making it impossible is, as you say, an extreme. Like hacking (not equating third-party comms with hacking) it is not feasible to assert that one can "get rid of it entirely."

 

Making it difficult to use, cumbersome to manage (like having to dial your buddies up on a phone, in this example), and unattractive compared to in-game mechanics is the goal. Not making it impossible. There will always be workarounds. But making said workarounds more difficult and less-attractive than in-game mechanics makes all the sense in the world to me.

[Accolyte 1727]

I get what you are saying, and I appreciate your input and taking part in the conversation, it's better then just throwing around theory and speculation with everyone else lol.

My point though is that you would have to take that extra step to set it up purposely instead of just being there by design, I agree that exploiters will find a way no matter what. I think there is a way to reward people who want to play legit though, and sometimes the only way to do that is to force a mechanic. If eating and drinking had great RP benefits but we're not required for survival people would just stop doing it once they were bored of it(what kills vanilla skyrim's feel for economy).

For me like I said, I would rather not even have to flip between radio/direct chat or double tap caps and see the icon on the screen in order to speak to someone I just bumped into, even at the risk of them hearing me talk over steam chat. I might be the minority In this but it's food for thought

 

I too understand where you're coming from. 

 

However, changing the sound input is probably as much of an extra step as connecting to a TS server. Probably even less effort than that as it's literally one click. Sure, not many people might realize this at first but the word would spread fairly quickly. I personally see no reason to do this. Yes, people will communicate through 3rd party programs and get an advantage, but the same can be said about literally every other multiplayer game that is out there.

[real meatshield 424]

How does that fix peaking through solid walls? It happens on hardcore too, it's just far worse on 3pp. )http://feedback.dayzgame.com/view.php?id=4002)

 

It also doesn't address that most new players will take the path of least resistance and go 3pp for the crutch it gives, I take it the devs haven't taken a look at the thread we had on this? :rolleyes: There are several valid arguments as to why 3pp needs major adjustment, but I won't derail this thread with them, I'd only be parroting content from another thread anyway.

Why does 3PP have to always be a crutch, in the eyes of the hardcore elitists? Maybe we, the scrub noobs playing 3PP, happen to like to see our environment from a different perspective? Maybe we don't want to play a pseudo-RPG from a 1PP perspective? Maybe we just happen to like the way we play in 3rd person, on 3rd person servers, that have absolutely NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on how those who wish to play in first person servers, enjoy their own experience?

Why is it that the incessant bitching and moaning about 3PP by 1PP players, has no counterpart from 3PP players over 1PP servers?

 

I have been playing first person shooters since DOOM and RTCW. Probably 90% of my gaming life has been in FPSes. I do not consider this game to be an FPS despite the fact it offers 1PP. Do I care that there are people who want to play it in 1PP? Hell no. Doesn't affect my gameplay one bit, which is why I fail to grasp how those of us who choose to play 3PP seem to generate such animosity from the 1PP crowd.

 

3PP needs absolutely no adjustment at all- the only adjustment needed is that of the attitudes of 1PP players who think they are above the rest of us. Trust me kids, your shit still stinks like shit. You ain't any better, you just choose to play a different way. Get over yourselves.

[akafugitive 244]

I too understand where you're coming from.

However, changing the sound input is probably as much of an extra step as connecting to a TS server. Probably even less effort than that as it's literally one click. Sure, not many people might realize this at first but the word would spread fairly quickly. I personally see no reason to do this. Yes, people will communicate through 3rd party programs and get an advantage, but the same can be said about literally every other multiplayer game that is out there.

What about locking it open purely for the other reasons I stated? Not even as a combatant for exploiting. I even want to heard radio beeps then I hit the PTT button

I mean forced open global chat would be insanely obnoxious, but direct chat is just another ingame sound that has a radius of effect

Edited April 15, 2014 by akafugitive

[Mr Sinister 167]

Good to see a member of staff responding to you here, the only point i would like to add about 3rd party comms is, not everyone uses them to get an advantage in game. For example me and my lass use steam to chat all the time in and out of game, would be sucky for people like us for one having the game shut down our comms, we dont use it as an advantage over others either because we are the type who just want to be left alone. :) . But i can understand from the facing off against goon squads perspective of course, as you would hear them talking as they circled around you etc in reality. 

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

I'm really tired of people going on about TeamSpeak and such, it's never going to go away so just deal with it and stop whinging. There are ways to encourage more people to use the in-game comms, if implemented these would make me switch entirely:

• A 'whisper mode' that operates at a much shorter range (e.g. 3-5 metres) and lower volume.
• A more comprehensive range of hand signals such as enemy, cover, down, listen, ammo and so on (why do we even have "clap"?)
• A Battlefield 2 style comm-rose so that we have access to a lot more actions instead of using the clunky and limited F keys.
• A higher quality of transmission overall, I can barely hear what people are saying on a good day.

Until at least the top two of these are implemented I have no interest in using anything but TeamSpeak 3 to communicate with my friends. If you consider this cheating then you will have to learn to suck it up and stop being such a baby, because my suggestions are not remotely unreasonable.

Edited April 15, 2014 by DarkwaveDomina

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Good to see a member of staff responding to you here, the only point i would like to add about 3rd party comms is, not everyone uses them to get an advantage in game. For example me and my lass use steam to chat all the time in and out of game, would be sucky for people like us for one having the game shut down our comms, we dont use it as an advantage over others either because we are the type who just want to be left alone. :) . But i can understand from the facing off against goon squads perspective of course, as you would hear them talking as they circled around you etc in reality. 

Good point. Not everyone using voice coms while playing DayZ is doing so to other DayZ players on the same server.

 

Forced open voice coms reminds me of something Final Fantasy XI use to do, It would force you to play in fullscreen mode and the game would close if you attempted to alt-tab out to check something else. I don't like the idea of a game forcing my computer to be a one purpose object while I'm playing it.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Karmaterror 982]

Why does 3PP have to always be a crutch, in the eyes of the hardcore elitists? Maybe we, the scrub noobs playing 3PP, happen to like to see our environment from a different perspective? Maybe we don't want to play a pseudo-RPG from a 1PP perspective? Maybe we just happen to like the way we play in 3rd person, on 3rd person servers, that have absolutely NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on how those who wish to play in first person servers, enjoy their own experience?

Why is it that the incessant bitching and moaning about 3PP by 1PP players, has no counterpart from 3PP players over 1PP servers?

 

I have been playing first person shooters since DOOM and RTCW. Probably 90% of my gaming life has been in FPSes. I do not consider this game to be an FPS despite the fact it offers 1PP. Do I care that there are people who want to play it in 1PP? Hell no. Doesn't affect my gameplay one bit, which is why I fail to grasp how those of us who choose to play 3PP seem to generate such animosity from the 1PP crowd.

 

3PP needs absolutely no adjustment at all- the only adjustment needed is that of the attitudes of 1PP players who think they are above the rest of us. Trust me kids, your shit still stinks like shit. You ain't any better, you just choose to play a different way. Get over yourselves.

 

Well said, couldn't agree more....

 

On topic.....VOIP, 3rd part maps, it all takes away from the game experience. But its also all on the player. The devs are providing us with the tools to have an authentic tie in dayz, and that's all they should have to. If the mentality of another gamer makes him loose out on a great ingame experience its not problem for me. Il be sat there using the walkies, searching for maps and playing dayz as it should be.

 

There effect, to me, is no greater than any other game. There will always be a walkthrough or map or guide out there, that's just the way it is. Noble as it is to try and combat that, its about as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike :)