About persistent objects and immersion

[Capo 323]

It will be pointless to create an invisible on death, most clan members would just make care packages for each other. Then when they die, they go and pick up the gear their buddy left them.

 

Secondly, if every item is going to be persistent, everything the player ever interacted with and put down will be linked to the player, and then have to hide itself from them once they die, and what about if you die a second time? is it going to also continue hiding that gear while hiding the gear you interacted with in the life you just had? It couldn't work like that, you'd eventually end up hiding half the gear in existence. 

 

I honestly can't see what's wrong with persistent storage as it was in the mod, why would you bother making a stash if you can't access it when you need it, and let's be frank, you really only need a stash when you need to regear. It means players will want to, and have to, sink time into creating a stash, which will inevitably get robbed (nearly every location did), blown up, or naturally depleted off it's own accord, which in turn leads to more hoarding. What's wrong with that? It's a great excuse to go out and explore the map, maybe find other players, get swarmed by zombies - use the gear you're hoarding as you're hoarding it.  

 

Now, Dayz is about one life, and people are saying it's like a second chance, and people won't take their character seriously if they can just regear. Not true, running to the tent (or in the mod, going to pick up the guy who just died) is a pain in the ass, not only that, if you don't take your character very seriously you die a lot, if you keep dying with all your gear, you end up with zero. It's not going to change anything. 

[mgc 92]

Thinking again and reading Retro19 post above it may not be that hard for Devs to implement this... but I imagine items stored will be permanent even post death when first committed, We would then quickly see how it affects the game.

There would be a lot more fully geared characters running around and all the second best items will be worth even less.

[brazorf 46]

It is obvious that an item has its own binding with the character, when you do own that item.

When you drop it im sure there's no information anymore about the previous owner. I'm not saying that this is not possible, though i think that it would be something to deal with carefully since it may spawn bugs or issues on any inventory behaviour. To explain better, i fear that the effort to bind dropped items to a character could be far too expensive when compared to higher priority features (people walking through walls for example).

[mgc 92]

Not sure I'm in favor of the "random" tent dispersion after death. Would be sort of discouraging to assault camps/forts/bases if I kill the players and their tents zorp to the other side of the map. That and I want these items to remain where they are, so I can use them as activity gauges.

Fair enough. That could be fixed by having a radius in which the containers can relocate. Let's say 1 km. You could also give the attackers 5 minutes to loot before the containers relocate. Regarding the activity gauge, you could leave a container of your own there.

[Katana67 2907]

Fair enough. That could be fixed by having a radius in which the containers can relocate. Let's say 1 km. You could also give the attackers 5 minutes to loot before the containers relocate. Regarding the activity gauge, you could leave a container of your own there.

 

I actually don't really have an issue with people being able to go back to their containers. I do have an issue with being able to transfer gear from persistent containers cross-server, but that's a separate issue entirely. Likewise, in the mod, I took issue with the risk (or lack thereof) in getting loot in the first place. Storing things became inconsequential when I could just run off to my nearest barracks and snag another DMR easily.

 

Honestly, and to an extent this is just me playing devil's advocate (although I don't have a real issue with it either way), does being able to return to your gear offer that much of an advantage? Does it break the game?

 

I don't think so. Or rather, it can be made not to, even if it does.

 

First, you had to have expended some time to gather the loot and put it into a container. Duplicating a loadout through legitimate means takes time.

 

Second, with time comes risk. You're essentially doubling your risk (assuming you're looting on a populated server) by trying to gather two of everything. Which may not even happen in the first place, given the rarity of some items and the incoming loot-hive management.

 

Third, once you've died and geared back up at your stocked tent/container... you're left with an empty tent/container. Thereby encouraging the player to loot more, expend more time and risk his/her character more if he/she wants to continue the process.

 

The problem in the mod is that one could store several loadout's worth of gear in one effing tent. I assume this will no longer be the case if we're starting out with backpacks as persistent storage items. One loadout would probably be the maximum.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[zeroy 240]

It is obvious that an item has its own binding with the character, when you do own that item.

When you drop it im sure there's no information anymore about the previous owner. I'm not saying that this is not possible, though i think that it would be something to deal with carefully since it may spawn bugs or issues on any inventory behaviour. To explain better, i fear that the effort to bind dropped items to a character could be far too expensive when compared to higher priority features (people walking through walls for example).

 

I dont think that the item would keep the parent as the player but rather the parent would be the container they are in. Container which will have a number of slots assigned to it. Imagine the fridges and cupboard in the less lootable houses, you could put stuff  in them and those would be permanent until picked up again. I think this is the way it will be done for Alpha.

[smoq2 221]

It will be pointless to create an invisible on death, most clan members would just make care packages for each other. Then when they die, they go and pick up the gear their buddy left them.

 

True, yet it's still harder than if you are able to do it yourself.

 

Secondly, if every item is going to be persistent, everything the player ever interacted with and put down will be linked to the player, and then have to hide itself from them once they die, and what about if you die a second time? is it going to also continue hiding that gear while hiding the gear you interacted with in the life you just had? It couldn't work like that, you'd eventually end up hiding half the gear in existence.

 

True, but only IF every item is going to be persistent. Right now they are only vaguely exploring the idea of making every single item persistent. Let's work with facts for now.

 

I honestly can't see what's wrong with persistent storage as it was in the mod, why would you bother making a stash if you can't access it when you need it, and let's be frank, you really only need a stash when you need to regear. It means players will want to, and have to, sink time into creating a stash, which will inevitably get robbed (nearly every location did), blown up, or naturally depleted off it's own accord, which in turn leads to more hoarding. What's wrong with that? It's a great excuse to go out and explore the map, maybe find other players, get swarmed by zombies - use the gear you're hoarding as you're hoarding it.

 

It allows for a literal life insurance policy - a backup in case of death (although a not very convenient one, but still). Believe me, the only thing this leads to is PVP and CoD type gameplay. Been there, seen it in another game.

 

I for one don't think of a stash as means to "regear". I intend to use it for my pot, pan, surplus water and food and alike when I'll be on a hunting trip. Guess you're wrong with this one.

 

Now, Dayz is about one life, and people are saying it's like a second chance, and people won't take their character seriously if they can just regear. Not true, running to the tent (or in the mod, going to pick up the guy who just died) is a pain in the ass, not only that, if you don't take your character very seriously you die a lot, if you keep dying with all your gear, you end up with zero. It's not going to change anything.

 

"(..) running to the tent (or in the mod, going to pick up the guy who just died) is a pain in the ass (...)" - You can not be serious that running to a tent is hard enough. Well, by my standards, it's the easy way out when it comes to a game like DayZ. To much reward for to little effort. IMO, if you die, you should have a setback measured in days, not a couple of minutes.

Edited April 7, 2014 by retro19

[zeroy 240]

 I do have an issue with being able to transfer gear from persistent containers cross-server, but that's a separate issue entirely.

 

A very real issue however, with the idea of the containers being fixed in the world (fridges, cupboards) then it cannot be cross - servers as the same container could already be in use by another players. I think its going to be server specific, unless they use non fixed containers like backpacks.

[Katana67 2907]

A very real issue however, with the idea of the containers being fixed in the world (fridges, cupboards) then it cannot be cross - servers as the same container could already be in use by another players. I think its going to be server specific, unless they use non fixed containers like backpacks.

 

Not referring to the containers themselves. Referring to the gear stored in the containers.

 

Meaning, Rifle X from Tent Y on Server Z can be transferred to Tent A on Server B.

[zeroy 240]

I for one don't think of a stash as means to "regear". I intend to use it for my pot, pan, surplus water and food and alike when I'll be on a hunting trip. Guess you're wrong with this one.

 

Same for me, but the odd extra LRS or Stab vest would be likely part of my "stash" - again we do not know enough facts - Devs might well decide to give containers with very limited slots and only taking in certain items like food/drink/medical supplies.

[smoq2 221]

Same for me, but the odd extra LRS or Stab vest would be likely part of my "stash" - again we do not know enough facts - Devs might well decide to give containers with very limited slots and only taking in certain items like food/drink/medical supplies.

 

Same here.

 

Hunting trip - ammo, assault vest, ballistic helmet, etc. goes to the stash.

Trip to town (that gas lamp needs refilling) - bow and arrow, hunting pants, knives, etc. goes to the stash.

And so on

 

I basically want it to store items that I will likely not need at my current destination.

[zeroy 240]

Just found this, shows a tent container

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KiI0zPtA9A

[blowurselfup 54]

 

 

1. Hoard loot until you have 50 of every gun + ammo.

2. PVP till the end of the world.

 

How about if the total persistent storage space is what you can fit in a backpack, one primary weapon, and limit the storage time to a few days max 

OOPS

 

I typed in the quote...my bad

Edited April 7, 2014 by blowurselfup

[cruiseashimself 56]

Oh nice! ^^^

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

Just found this, shows a tent container

 

Rather old vid (3 weeks? more? )and not the actual crossbow...and also not the actual tents that will come in. Somebody inserted leftovers from Arma after he cracked it up...

[Valadain 270]

Perma-death is a way some people choose to play, not the way this game inherently works. If it did, there would be no persistent clans. You die, you play till you find another group of people to play with. That obviously isn't how everyone is going to play.

 

Because people are going back to their friends and clans after death and because there is going to be persistent base building with those groups, you really can't muck about with persistent things being placed by players. It is a waste of time and kills immersion for those not playing in a new-life-on-death fashion.

 

For those who do want to play that way, just don't go back to your stuff. It is really that easy.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Simple solution.  You die, your items get locked from you and you cannot collect them.  Everyone else can but you.  Now if your friends happen to get the loot off your dead body, that should unlock it again.  Even persistent items should get locked from you the moment you die until someone acquires them. 

[zeroy 240]

Rather old vid (3 weeks? more? )and not the actual crossbow...and also not the actual tents that will come in. Somebody inserted leftovers from Arma after he cracked it up...

 

posted 3 days ago, looked legit to me, cant see how they would have the mechanics for the xbow, etc.. ?

[Valadain 270]

Simple solution.  You die, your items get locked from you and you cannot collect them.  Everyone else can but you.  Now if your friends happen to get the loot off your dead body, that should unlock it again.  Even persistent items should get locked from you the moment you die until someone acquires them. 

 

Simpler solution. Make no change. Play the way you want and let others play the way they want. Don't create a mechanic that allows clans to completely ignore perma-death but those who play alone get hit with the full force.

[shaeg 136]

People will jsut find other peopels stashes using cheat engines and then all the hackers will have the best gears.

[Capo 323]

Lone wolves would get fucked by this idea, while clan players would feel nothing more than a minor irritation. Isn't the entire point of this thread to stop clans hoarding gear and then playing "the most dangerous game, dayz safari!".  At the moment, the idea of hiding gear from players who just died only really hurts the people who don't play in clans. 

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

posted 3 days ago, looked legit to me, cant see how they would have the mechanics for the xbow, etc.. ?

 

Yeah because you can't repost a vid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBebi-7N6Y (3 weeks ago, even by the same user...)

 

 

especially this one was already posted here and discussed...

Edited April 8, 2014 by LaughingJack

[Irish. 4886]

Ive played the mods and I think the SA should differentiate itself.

 

This is how it should play out, imo:

 

You spawn in, find a backpack and gear. You save the pack in a nice place, and back out of the game later. You come back to that same server, and go to find your pack. Its there, you're relieved no one found it. This server is now full, but its the one you had to join to get your gear. You had no choice other than play on another server where you don't have anything saved.

 

So now you have your pack, the server is full. You decide to risk looting a barracks, but leave your pack in a tree for safe keeping just in case you get robbed. You start to loot the barracks when suddenly you hear footsteps around you. Then it happens out of nowhere... black screen, "You are Dead". Your saved pack, and your player both disappear after a 10 minute timer. When your body gets cleared, so does any persistent loot you saved. When you spawn in fresh, you have nothing no matter what you did in your last life, unless you can get back to that gear in 10mins. or less. (Im also for not being able to loot your own body, ever = Complete total perma death.)

[Zeppa 562]

Just make items have log that record few last persons that interacted with it last. This helps with groups. Dead person is removed from that when he dies, until he interacts it with again in his new life. Same with vehicles. If dead person is only in the log item is respawned somwhere or removed if its something that cant be spawned in immediately like rare high value stuff. Item that hasnt been touched for x days gets despawned. None can pefrect this system, but there is good compromise somewhere between realism and gameplay..

Also persons death could start rng on items he has interacted last to be despawned.

Everything just cant be deleted/moved, then groups and their bases are screwd. Also you body and items cant be straight lootable for you..

[Valadain 270]

Ive played the mods and I think the SA should differentiate itself.

 

This is how it should play out, imo:

 

You spawn in, find a backpack and gear. You save the pack in a nice place, and back out of the game later. You come back to that same server, and go to find your pack. Its there, you're relieved no one found it. This server is now full, but its the one you had to join to get your gear. You had no choice other than play on another server where you don't have anything saved.

 

So now you have your pack, the server is full. You decide to risk looting a barracks, but leave your pack in a tree for safe keeping just in case you get robbed. You start to loot the barracks when suddenly you hear footsteps around you. Then it happens out of nowhere... black screen, "You are Dead". Your saved pack, and your player both disappear after a 10 minute timer. When your body gets cleared, so does any persistent loot you saved. When you spawn in fresh, you have nothing no matter what you did in your last life, unless you can get back to that gear in 10mins. or less. (Im also for not being able to loot your own body, ever = Complete total perma death.)

 

Doesn't work with base building or clans pooling resources.