Hunting- It better be damn hard

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

From the Cabels's games i have played that Cauldron (BI Slovakia) made the animal Als were crude and very unrealistic. There hunting games they make are very Arcade like and unrealistic. You can walk up to a deer and shoot it.

Oh dear, lol.

[liquidsnake 275]

From the Cabels's games i have played that Cauldron (BI Slovakia) made the animal Als were crude and very unrealistic. There hunting games they make are very Arcade like and unrealistic. You can walk up to a deer and shoot it.

I want to see Sand Grain Studios work on the animals. Probably wont happen though.

That doesn't sound promising.... I know I'll probably act like I can't just walk up to them for immersion sake, but it won't be the same sadly

[cruiseashimself 56]

I read that they were thinking of adding bears...

 

I'll be severely disappointed if they just allow you to shoot a bear or deer and instantly stick everything in your backpack...lol

as long as it doesn't have the bandage animation like everything else it would be great. Haha

I read that they were thinking of adding bears...

 

I'll be severely disappointed if they just allow you to shoot a bear or deer and instantly stick everything in your backpack...lol

as long as it doesn't have the bandage animation like everything else it would be great. Haha

[thesodesa 99]

Take a look at this :)

 

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/can-only-eat-vegetables-still-stay-healthy-7561.html

 

My point about the player avatar's needs still stands though, doesn't it. If the devs want to include things like the rate of absorption of iron from meat vs broccoli/spinach they can by all means do that, although a simpler way of doing it would be to just make plants have less iron in them to reflect the actual amount absorbed during digestion. You could still in theory get the necessary amount of iron from eating nothing but broccoli. You would just have to eat more of it.

Edited April 7, 2014 by TheSodesa

[Jex 1104]

My point about the player avatar's needs still stands though, doesn't it. If the devs want to include things like the rate of absorption of iron from meat vs broccoli/spinach they can by all means do that, although a simpler way of doing it would be to just make plants have less iron in them to reflect the actual amount absorbed during digestion. You could still in theory get the necessary amount of iron from eating nothing but broccoli. You would just have to eat more of it.

 

No the article clearly states you can't just eat vegetables...

 

 

 

While a healthy vegetarian diet that includes a variety of different foods can provide all of the nutrients you need, a diet consisting of only vegetables doesn't. Vegetables don't contain sufficient amounts of certain vitamins and minerals, including vitamin B-12 and vitamin D. You need to consume a wider variety of foods to get the recommended amount of essential omega-3 fats and all of the necessary amino acids.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Jexter

[Jex 1104]

italian..?

 

LOL i dunno it sounded like dubbed Italian? At the end?

[thesodesa 99]

No the article clearly states you can't just eat vegetables...

 

I still feel like we are debating about different things. You are clearly either trying to get me to admit that eating meat is compulsory to survive, or that only by eating meat are you going to have an optimal diet. The first point is clearly wrong, as there are many people on this earth living off of nothing but veggies(mainly for religious reasons or poverty). Therefore it should be doable in game as well. The second point I might concede, but I'm not going to do it based on just 1 article. You don't have to worry though, I'm not a vegan, so there is no need to convert me into a meat eater. My stance is neutral on this topic.

 

If the devs insert the correct nutritional values for all the food items in the game, which is all i care about when it comes to this conversation, we both win. I just sort of feel like this debate is a bit pointless, since we both seem to agree on the whole "correct nutritional values for food items"-thing.

Edited April 7, 2014 by TheSodesa

[irishroy 1347]

LOL i dunno it sounded like dubbed Italian? At the end?

I think it was spanish xD

(Sry, I'm not into these languages)

[Windex 13]

I want hunting in DayZ to be an experience where you have to be careful. You have to be patient and quiet. You have to move in a way that will not alert nearby animals and your best bet is to come upon one that doesn't notice you.

 

That's not all that hard if you're willing to fling potshots at a pig you see 400m away.   Sport hunting has ethical concerns that are totally irrelevant in DayZ.

 

The main difficulty with hunting is going to be not giving away your position or attracting zombies.

[ptk (DayZ) 178]

Alot of good posts made here, other than the rabbit meat derailment lol. I would like hunting to be a challenge, but it seems there needs to be a balance to other methods of obtaining food. If hunting is too hard, then the meta will dictate that people continue to loot towns because it's the easiest method and of course the coast will have to have enough lootable food to at least get new spawns a chance to survive. This could end up making killing fresh spawns more pragmatic than it is atm, which seems like a bad thing.

I really like the nutritional stuff that was mentioned though, perhaps make that aspect more simplistic to that cooked meat keeps you sustained for a longer period of time, though takes a longer period of time to eat and must be consumed at one sitting to get the sustained effect.

I think that something like that would offer a good enough incentive to hunt, as difficult as that may become, while keeping the current meta for obtaining food from shifting dramatically.

Edit- of course this implies that cooking food will sustain you better than consumed cold, but that cooked game meat could sustain you the most, given that hunting is actually difficult...

Edited April 7, 2014 by ptk

[Jex 1104]

I still feel like we are debating about different things. You are clearly either trying to get me to admit that eating meat is compulsory to survive, or that only by eating meat are you going to have an optimal diet. The first point is clearly wrong, as there are many people on this earth living off of nothing but veggies(mainly for religious reasons or poverty). Therefore it should be doable in game as well. The second point I might concede, but I'm not going to do it based on just 1 article. You don't have to worry though, I'm not a vegan, so there is no need to convert me into a meat eater. My stance is neutral on this topic.

 

If the devs insert the correct nutritional values for all the food items in the game, which is all i care about when it comes to this conversation, we both win. I just sort of feel like this debate is a bit pointless, since we both seem to agree on the whole "correct nutritional values for food items"-thing.

 

It's getting confusing so let me restate.

 

You do require meat in your diet, or a substitute read the following.... (it's from the original link)

 

 

Omega-3 Fats

You need a certain amount of fat each day for good health, including omega-3 fats, which are essential. Vegetables only contain a small amount of fat and don't contain omega-3 fats in significant amounts. Fish are the best source of omega-3 fats, providing docosahexaenoic acid, or DHA, and eicosapentaenoic acid, or EPA, but you can get some omega-3 fats from nuts, flaxseeds, green leafy vegetables, soybeans and algae. However, the vegetarian sources of omega-3 fats contain alpha-linolenic acid, or ALA, which isn't very efficiently converted into the DHA and EPA you need.

Vitamin B-12

Vitamin B-12 is another nutrient that you can't get from vegetables, since it is only found in animal foods. You need vitamin B-12 for forming healthy red blood cells to transport oxygen around your body. Vegetarians need to either eat foods that are fortified with vitamin B-12, like some breakfast cereals, or take a vitamin B-12 supplement.

Vitamin D

Vegetables don't provide any significant amount of vitamin D. You need vitamin D for absorbing calcium and keeping your bones and teeth strong. Sunlight provides some vitamin D, but usually not enough to meet your vitamin D needs. Other sources of vitamin D include fortified milk, liver and egg yolks.

 

 

So what my argument for eating meat is, in a zombie apocalypse staying healthy is way more important without access to modern day living. Broken legs are in dayz, without Vitamin D they will break easier. Now you could find supplements, but not for long. At some point they're going to run out or go off leaving you with what you can farm and kill. Meat also contains way more calories than vegatables. Nuts have a shitload of calories in them too but aren't in the game.

 

Therefore, I think it's reasonable to say that people will need to eat meat to stay healthy. I know it's only one link, but you'll need to cite a source for your claims before we can go any further if we wish to continue arguing over whether we need to eat meat or not to stay alive.

 

I suppose  the question should be, "In  a zombie apocalypse, will eat vegetables I farm be enough to sustain me" but I doubt anyone did a serious study on that one lol ;)

I think it was spanish xD

(Sry, I'm not into these languages)

 

That would have been my 2nd choice lol

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jexter

[thesodesa 99]

It's getting confusing so let me restate.

 

You do require meat in your diet, or a substitute read the following.... (it's from the original link)

 

 

 

So what my argument for eating meat is, in a zombie apocalypse staying healthy is way more important without access to modern day living. Broken legs are in dayz, without Vitamin D they will break easier. Now you could find supplements, but not for long. At some point they're going to run out or go off leaving you with what you can farm and kill. Meat also contains way more calories than vegatables. Nuts have a shitload of calories in them too but aren't in the game.

 

Therefore, I think it's reasonable to say that people will need to eat meat to stay healthy. I know it's only one link, but you'll need to cite a source for your claims before we can go any further if we wish to continue arguing over whether we need to eat meat or not to stay alive.

 

I suppose  the question should be, "In  a zombie apocalypse, will eat vegetables I farm be enough to sustain me" but I doubt anyone did a serious study on that one lol ;)

 

That would have been my 2nd choice lol

 

The thing that confused me was the wording "You need meat for your body to function", instead of "You need certain amino acids in order for your body to function". I find the use of the word "meat supplement" a bit silly, and I feel the word should be "amino acid source". Same applies to fatty acids and any other "micronutrients".

 

However, I'm still insisting, that if the necessary plant items find their way into the game, and if you can cultivate them in decent amounts, it should be possibe to survive without meat. I don't know why anyone would want to live on nothing but plants, because of the extra hassle, but it should still be doable. A persons survival should be dictated by what nutrients they get through their diet, not by what they are eating. What I mean by that is that the game should only be keeping track of your nutrient levels when determining the level of your health, and that has been the thing that I've been arguing about all along. 

 

I guess it's a bit pointless, but for completeness' sake I might as well add, that by eating nothing but cooked meat, your vitamin, particularly vitamin C, and fiber intake would be drastically reduced (the vitamin breaks down when heated), which would lead to health problems as well, like gout for example. So if you plan on just hunting, then cooking your meat and also not using every possible part of the animal as food, you're not going to get by either. http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-04/fyi-what-would-happen-if-i-ate-nothing-meat. Raw meat has the vitamins, but the risk of catching a hookworm or the Giant roundworm might deter people from eating it. Hosting a food leaching parasite doesn't sound too tempting in an apocalypse either.

 

I'm so hoping they put parasites in as well, by the way. :)

[Jex 1104]

The thing that confused me was the wording "You need meat for your body to function", instead of "You need certain amino acids in order for your body to function". I find the use of the word "meat supplement" a bit silly, and I feel the word should be "amino acid source". Same applies to fatty acids and any other "micronutrients".

 

However, I'm still insisting, that if the necessary plant items find their way into the game, and if you can cultivate them in decent amounts, it should be possibe to survive without meat. I don't know why anyone would want to live on nothing but plants, because of the extra hassle, but it should still be doable. A persons survival should be dictated by what nutrients they get through their diet, not by what they are eating. What I mean by that is that the game should only be keeping track of your nutrient levels when determining the level of your health, and that has been the thing that I've been arguing about all along. 

 

I guess it's a bit pointless, but for completeness' sake I might as well add, that by eating nothing but cooked meat, your vitamin, particularly vitamin C, and fiber intake would be drastically reduced (the vitamin breaks down when heated), which would lead to health problems as well, like gout for example. So if you plan on just hunting, then cooking your meat and also not using every possible part of the animal as food, you're not going to get by either. http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2011-04/fyi-what-would-happen-if-i-ate-nothing-meat. Raw meat has the vitamins, but the risk of catching a hookworm or the Giant roundworm might deter people from eating it. Hosting a food leaching parasite doesn't sound too tempting in an apocalypse either.

 

I'm so hoping they put parasites in as well, by the way. :)

 

Yes if you don't eat veg too, that should have a detrimental affect on the body as well. I think Rocket said he wanted to make sure people had to eat a balanced diet - if u just eat canned spaghetti things will go worse for you.

 

A system should be too hard to make either. You could have a list of categories like calcium, vitamins, minerals, calories, etc which have a score of x - x (1 -100, whatever). If these get too far depleted, it will up the risk of infection or disease and broken bones and things. It could work by adding an extra 1% for each 10 point drop which means across all categories the percentage can go up high.

 

When the final relase comes, we're going to need things to do to survive. If they get it right it won't be a constant thing so it's annoying but enough to keep you busy.

 

They should also tie animals and crops to the hive so they can cause crop failures and make animals scarcer so we can have "bad years"

Edited April 8, 2014 by Jexter

[thesodesa 99]

Yes if you don't eat veg too, that should have a detrimental affect on the body as well. I think Rocket said he wanted to make sure people had to eat a balanced diet - if u just eat canned spaghetti things will go worse for you.

 

A system should be too hard to make either. You could have a list of categories like calcium, vitamins, minerals, calories, etc which have a score of x - x (1 -100, whatever). If these get too far depleted, it will up the risk of infection or disease and broken bones and things. It could work by adding an extra 1% for each 10 point drop which means across all categories the percentage can go up high.

 

When the final relase comes, we're going to need things to do to survive. If they get it right it won't be a constant thing so it's annoying but enough to keep you busy.

 

They should also tie animals and crops to the hive so they can cause crop failures and make animals scarcer so we can have "bad years"

 

I agree.

[Ankhenaten 111]

Cannibalism should be an option too. <_<

[jukaga 271]

I don't see us getting a detailed hunting system, I just don't. Prove me wrong BI, but the engine doesn't seem suited to it and there are much bigger priorities. If it was super realistic and hard, what would be the incentive to do it? Cans of food are easy enough to find, who is seriously going to spend hours stalking a virtual deer? The same argument applies for the cars; do you really think we're going to get an ultra-realistic driving model?

[Fused 5]

Posting this only after getting through a couple pages.

Hunting will be awesome if:

1. It requires a stealth approach. Some more severe than others (Deer, Wolf, Bear).

2. The food that spawns in towns/cities must be reduced a great deal. Sure fresh spawns may be hard pressed to find the necessary food to kill the hunger, but hey ... If you love your 9V and Flashlight that badly to lose it ... Quit playing before you get anything of value.

3. If you fire a gun to kill an animal, well that's your own stupidity. Just like IRL you reveal your presence. You alert other predatory animals such as wolves and bear, and Zed's along with other players know something is going down and come looking.

4. Guns and Bows should be crafted and not found. (This one will never happen but it should to keep the focus on PvE not PvP).

5. Damage to coats and meat on animals should definitely reflect the weapon used.

If the survival aspect of DayZ doesn't become more of a necessity in terms of finding food to survive, along with Zed's becoming a threat in terms of mobs vs 2 or 3 freaks of nature Zed's I think will make the game depth far more realistic and less deathmatch between players.

Beans to the OP.

[Windex 13]

I think that something like that would offer a good enough incentive to hunt, as difficult as that may become, while keeping the current meta for obtaining food from shifting dramatically.

 

 

I think the current meta for obtaining food is silly anyways.   I much preferred the mod.  

 

A key point to hunting, though, is that you're not going to be able to have 40 people running around shooting wildly at things to eat them.    It's going to require paying attention (to spot the animals) and discretion so that you don't get whacked while doing it.   A huge part of the latter will be proper preparation - knowing where you can safely hunt, navigating there, bringing enough water and other things you need, etc.

 

 

 

2. The food that spawns in towns/cities must be reduced a great deal. Sure fresh spawns may be hard pressed to find the necessary food to kill the hunger, but hey ... If you love your 9V and Flashlight that badly to lose it ... Quit playing before you get anything of value.

 

 

Cities are already a deathtrap.  Not sure why we need to reduce food in them.     Hunting > bean searching, by a wide margin.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Windex

[Fused 5]

Because if you spend all your time on the coastal death traps to find food as a fresh spawn, you deserve to be at a high risk of being shot.

However, lowering the amount of food to be found incities will force people to risk going into the city to find the necessary loot to craft a weapon to go hunt animals in the woods. If that happens, the current hot spots for deathmatches would be pushed away from there and more on the survival side of the game. Obviously the current state of side effects that come from gameplay such as disease and infections are not implemented and if they do it properly the game will be far more challenging and be more about actually keeping your guy alive from enviornmental effects.

If you sit inside a "camp" or building all day and don't roam around then you won't have the effects and risk play against you quickly ... But that is super boring for most, especially Bandits ... If you wanna go out and hunt fresh spawns, you better be prepared to face a wrath of ailments.

This game could be so unique from other games that always fall to PvP, those games have been done countless times and will continue to be cause of money.

Went a little off topic but it all still applies to making hunting Animals and not players for the most nourishment rewards.

[GrappleX 354]

4. Guns and Bows should be crafted and not found. (This one will never happen but it should to keep the focus on PvE not PvP).

 

How exactly would you craft a gun?

[Fused 5]

Have multiple parts that must be collected to form a completed gun. Don't ask me the parts, I just think the current state of the game being all about killing other fellow survivors is a waste of the concept that Dean Hall had envisioned.

[jukaga 271]

Have multiple parts that must be collected to form a completed gun. Don't ask me the parts, I just think the current state of the game being all about killing other fellow survivors is a waste of the concept that Dean Hall had envisioned.

 

 

Finding random gun parts makes less sense than finding complete guns. And bows? It's a very specialized skill to make bows adequate for hunting and war and time consuming. Other than adding pre-made attachements I can't see weapons crafting being a big part of the game if they're going for realism.

Edited April 8, 2014 by jukaga

[thesodesa 99]

Finding random gun parts makes less sense than finding complete guns. And bows? It's a very specialized skill to make bows adequate for hunting and war and time consuming. Other than adding pre-made attachements I can't see weapons crafting being a big part of the game if they're going for realism.

 

But should it not be put into the game at all? If the devs are willing to put weapon crafting into the game, why limit peoples' options? Personally I think that the importance of looting should be reduced (not removed altogether) in general in favor of player made items.

[Jex 1104]

I don't see us getting a detailed hunting system, I just don't. Prove me wrong BI, but the engine doesn't seem suited to it and there are much bigger priorities. If it was super realistic and hard, what would be the incentive to do it? Cans of food are easy enough to find, who is seriously going to spend hours stalking a virtual deer? The same argument applies for the cars; do you really think we're going to get an ultra-realistic driving model?

 

Are you joking? I'm going to spend hours stalking a deer if it's done right and is challenging. They "could" add an incentive like, when you cut the deer up for meat inside it's body you find a Thermal AS50 with 100 rounds of ammo?

[thesodesa 99]

How exactly would you craft a gun?

 

Personally I think that guns should be found, not made, but on the other hand I would much prefer that the game would focus more on player made, improvised, weapons like slings, and that guns would become a rare luxury item.

 

From wikipedia: "The sling is inexpensive and easy to build. It has historically been used for hunting game and in combat. Film exists of Spanish Civil War combatants using slings to throw grenades over buildings into enemy positions on the opposite street. Today the sling interests sportsmen as a wilderness survival tool and as an improvised weapon."

 

Simple, but deadly once you learn to use them well.

 

Also, traps should probably be a viable way of hunting small game.