Server hopping, "matchmaking" and incentives to gear up on a populated server.

[Etherious 907]

All the time. I often come across as an asshole because of all the drivel i point out on these forums. All I ask is for people to think about and justify their positions instead of complain. I really try (and often fail) to stimulate good discourse :) Im just having a good day today!

[hefeweizen 254]

, if people wanna server hop, let them... If they wanna gear up and join a full server geared and looking for a fight? Let them... As long as theyll die by the same weapons that i have... Let them do the hard looting from different servers only to bring it to one full server??? You know whats that called? A jackpot. People who play on low pop will always be at a disadvantaged, they dont know the routes, where people usually hide, theyre used to running at the middle of the roads... If people wanna play on low pop servers... Let them... They paid for the game just as you did

Thing is, I like to play at every stage of my characters life on a server that has a decent population. It is tough right now, but it'll get better with loot respawns. However, the vast majority of players in DayZ are not going to do that, they're going to take whatever advantage possible in order to win.

 

OP your ideas have already been discussed and many valid rebuttals have been offered.

 

Whether you prefer to acknowledge their validity.... well that is another matter.

 

Round peg - square hole kind of guy here.

 

/Thread.

He thinks gameplay could be made better with a few simple rule changes! GET 'EM!!!!!!

Oh DayZ, your players often seem so much older than they must really be. Not because they're any wiser, or more intelligent mind you. No, because they're so damn cantankerous and completely adverse to change for no actually valid reason.

Also, I think Frothyboot18 has ED, but that is neither here nor there.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

1. Low loot spawns on empty servers, better loot on higher pop servers. (The option the devs are currently in favor of.)

2. CS:GO/TF2 style match making to automatically filter players into high population servers with a low pings.

3. MMO style servers run by BI that would be added as needed in order to maintain a stable population on every server.

4. Private Hive servers, which although I think is the best option it is not what the devs seem to want as the main way to play DayZ. So for the purposes of this discussion we'll be focusing on options within the public hive.

 

1) was mentioned but only as a "possible idea"

2) Would be my favorite: Select hive, select filters (max ping etc.) AND add possibilty to spawn on the server where one/more friends are playing and click play. Problem:  I'm not sure it would work with server owners. Nobody wants to pay for a sevrer that maybe is 90% of the time empty because the matchmaking system throws you always 3rd or 4th and no one ever connects...so there would be 100 of private hives and maybe some "vanilla" servers for the public hive...would only really work out if BI would pay for a bigger amount of servers...

3) won't work with the server architecture

4) Private hives are already announced together with mod support and private servers (which need a private hive system to work) etc. ...so no way of "not the way the devs seem to want as the main way"... but that won't change the problems on the public hive or maybe even on a large private hive (think of maybe 50 servers owned by 25 clans that wanted on huge private hive together)

 

 

The problem that people have here is the wording from you, dear OP, they think "matchmaking system like CS" means, that you meant "You get to a server until it's full, game starts and after two hours it's over and everyone gets...whatever the price is".

 

I hope I understood you correctly, that this is NOT what you meant, and you just wanted to remove the server list and only use filters+"Play" button instead of it, so that there is no difference to playing now - only the server list is gone and the choice of the server is "automated".

Well, would kill server hopping, would kill, low pop servers but as said before: I see a problem with the server owners here...

AND the next problem: All persistent objects will only be SERVER persistent, so...yeah. "nice barricade and tent you have there. Too bad that you can never connect back to this server when you are gone, because you will maybe never be matched to it again"....

Edited March 30, 2014 by LaughingJack

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

I almost always play on one of the same 4 servers, regardless of population, because they are the ones I don't get serious lag and desync on. Why do I need a system forcing me into some random lagfest just to please a handful of people that feel the need to dictate how others play...

 

You say solo players/lonewolfs don't need to use the public hive, I think your the one that would be better off on a private server(not really, just trying to show you how ignorant that is).

 

Besides, who is going to pay for all these servers that they can't actually use? Not me, that is for sure.

 

Regards.

[LigerRider 82]

Thats fine, but why do these things need to be done on the public hive? Private servers will be more than capable of handling all your solo lone wolf, gun testing, zombie killing needs. But I still haven't had explained to me why people need to be able to find weapons on empty servers, and then take them to full servers at their leisure.

No, I completely understand the server hopping concept, but with your public hive comment, there are a lot of servers with just a low to zero population, so might as well put them to some use rather than pay ($?) a month to play alone on a server by yourself. 

[hefeweizen 254]

Lol. The guys who get all pissy when you suggest a change to the rules and then they're like "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!!!!" are hilarious.

Have you ever played games before? Games have rules, all of them. Those rules change a lot during development for the sake of better gameplay.

Just because changes to DayZ might cramp your weird little play style doesn't mean they shouldn't happen. Don't people ever look at the big picture and think about what would make the more enjoyable for more people?

[hefeweizen 254]

No, I completely understand the server hopping concept, but with your public hive comment, there are a lot of servers with just a low to zero population, so might as well put them to some use rather than pay ($?) a month to play alone on a server by yourself. 

Why not just axe 'em? Put a cap on how many servers can be connected to the public hive, it might suck for server hosting companies but it would make gameplay 1000x better.

[hefeweizen 254]

 

I hope I understood you correctly.

 You did, and for that: Beans.

[pilgrim* 3514]

.Right now it seems like everyone and their mom has military gear because they do, they all got it from one of the hundreds of empty public hive servers, if said empty servers didn't exist then that gear wouldn't exist in the first place.

 

<<hundreds of empty public hive servers>> ?

 

On Saturday night, ALMOST EVERY server with 10 or less players (usually 5 or 3 or just 1) is a Clan White-List server, an Auto-Kick server, an 'Experimental' Testing we Reset Your Character server, a Start On The Beach server, or an Admin-Kick server, a  Friends Only server, a Pay to Play server  - or just plain Locked.

(And now we also get 'Waiting for Server' for as long as you want to wait, and you can SEE there are 3 people on there, and your ping is >45).

 

So please tell me (with IPs) where can I log to any server with a max of 5-10 players on it, anytime Saturday night from 6pm up until 2am or 3am?

 

- Because I'd REALLY LIKE TO GO THERE

 

(ok, I'm just about joking) - but please look at the server list, by number of players, is all I ask - There are a hell of a LOT of low pop servers  - MOST OF THEM - that are run ONLY for the Admin's benefit all alone (1 player), or with 2-3 friends, or for a little clan of 5 or 7. And you can NOT log on those, you are kicked, autokicked, they are whitelist, they kick you by hand, they reset as soon as 5 out-of-town players turn up. So between 'hoppers' and Admins who do not play the rules - I say: what's the difference?? Where are these hundreds of empty servers the hoppers can gear up on?

 

thanx in advance

xx pilgrim

Edited April 6, 2014 by pilgrim

[Jamz 253]

1. Low loot spawns on empty servers, better loot on higher pop servers. (The option the devs are currently in favor of.)

2. CS:GO/TF2 style match making to automatically filter players into high population servers with a low pings.

3. MMO style servers run by BI that would be added as needed in order to maintain a stable population on every server.

 

1. Do you mean loot availability rather than loot types? If so then this might be ok but the same loot should be available on all servers.

2. No, because this would eliminate a whole playstyle. playing on low pop servers brings an entirely different experience than high pop ones but they are both equally valid.

3. see above.

 

There needs to be other ways to discourage server hopping. The logout timer is good but imperfect, another way could be to make it impossible to log out in certain areas (or at least to relocate the player upon subsequent login) ie military areas. It may even require a combination of measures, but never affecting ways of playing the game.

[fitzee 248]

Lol. The guys who get all pissy when you suggest a change to the rules and then they're like "DON'T TELL ME HOW TO PLAY!!!!" are hilarious.

Have you ever played games before? Games have rules, all of them. Those rules change a lot during development for the sake of better gameplay.

Just because changes to DayZ might cramp your weird little play style doesn't mean they shouldn't happen. Don't people ever look at the big picture and think about what would make the more enjoyable for more people?

 

LoL!

 

Says the guy that wants the game changed to suit his own little play style.

 

Do you not see the irony in the things you post, or do you really think everyone who plays differently than you are weird and silly?

 

Regards.

 

p.s. If you make a good suggestion you will probably get a lot more positive feedback. This idea of shutting out the majority of servers can only lead to bohemia hosting the servers, which would in turn bring subscription fees.

[hefeweizen 254]

 

p.s. If you make a good suggestion you will probably get a lot more positive feedback. This idea of shutting out the majority of servers can only lead to bohemia hosting the servers, which would in turn bring subscription fees.

 Plainly false, there are plenty of games that are buy to play and have official servers that are run by the companies who produced the game. Off the top of my head, Guild wars 2, Diablo 3, Guns of Icarus.

I don't want things changed to suit my playstyle, I want them changed because they're bad. The public hive setup, as it currently is is terrible, it was terrible in the mod and it'll need to be changed before release. I think everyone agrees on that much, the devs sure do. So whats your idea to fix them problem, buddy?

Edited March 31, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[hefeweizen 254]

 

2. No, because this would eliminate a whole playstyle. playing on low pop servers brings an entirely different experience than high pop ones but they are both equally valid.

3. see above.

 

 

 Playing on low pop servers isn't a valid style, when you consider the public hive system. Gearing up on a low population server gives you an unfair advantage over those who live out their characters entire life on a populated server and play the game the way the devs intended people to.

Said playstyle wouldn't be eliminated, it just wouldn't be part of the official public hive. Private hives would be perfect for people who want to play alone and then they wouldn't be able to bring their easily gotten loot over to populated servers when they felt like deathmatching.

[Jamz 253]

 Playing on low pop servers isn't a valid style, when you consider the public hive system. Gearing up on a low population server gives you an unfair advantage over those who live out their characters entire life on a populated server and play the game the way the devs intended people to.

Said playstyle wouldn't be eliminated, it just wouldn't be part of the official public hive. Private hives would be perfect for people who want to play alone and then they wouldn't be able to bring their easily gotten loot over to populated servers when they felt like deathmatching.

 

It's as much a valid style as KOS and as far as gearing up goes, groups have an unfair advantage over lone wolves. Especially if they use Teamspeak. The game is based around getting advantages and whereas I see server hopping as an exploit, playing on low pop servers I do not as those players may gear up quicker but they usually don't then head to a high pop server afterwards to snipe. It seems like it's a small number of players that this is aimed at, who probably used every exploit they can regardless for an advantage, so I think there should be a more specific fix for server hoppers.

 

Edit - Also players who play on low pop servers will miss the tactical experience necessary to succeed on high pop servers. So although they have the gear, they would likely be an easy kill for a player who spent all their time on a high pop server.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Jamz

[hefeweizen 254]

t as those players may gear up quicker but they usually don't then head to a high pop server afterwards to snipe...

Come on man, that is more than a little naive. It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There is no incentive to gear up.  Players have been coddled and hand held by game developers for so long that any form of challenge to have to do anything themselves they start screaming and stomping their feet. That's why we have server hoppers.  Why do you think people want to mod games these days?  As for the match making, who cares, let them add it.  You don't have to use it.  

Edited March 31, 2014 by Caboose187

[Window Licker 504]

 Plainly false, there are plenty of games that are buy to play and have official servers that are run by the companies who produced the game. Off the top of my head, Guild wars 2, Diablo 3, Guns of Icarus.

I don't want things changed to suit my playstyle, I want them changed because they're bad. The public hive setup, as it currently is is terrible, it was terrible in the mod and it'll need to be changed before release. I think everyone agrees on that much, the devs sure do. So whats your idea to fix them problem, buddy?

I can also think of a few more allod's online, Dragons nest, and those games are free, and by "fee" I mean pay2win. Guild wars is supported by cash shop and expansions, Diablo 3 just released another expansion I don't know if they have a cash shop or what. 

 

They all have a method of getting money from players after they have the finished product.  Having the game hosted by BI would mean they need a way to get money from us after the game is released, which I think would cause much weeping and gnashing of teeth on the forums.

 

The loot distribution system mentioned on page 1 iirc is pretty much what they are going for if there is only 2 M4's on a server and there is over 300 places for it to spawn that mean's the loot farmers will have to spend forever trying to find it.  Also if they rent their own server the guns will be stuck in private so the rest of us who play public will be unaffected by the behavior.

 

After this there is simply item duping to deal with, which I hope they will figure out before they release the final version.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Window Licker

[Jamz 253]

Come on man, that is more than a little naive. It feels like you're being deliberately obtuse.

 

I don't think every player who plays DayZ is only here to exploit it. I think that some players want a zombie apocalypse simulation without constantly having their immersion broken by players who are only interested in ruining that immersion. Like I said, both types of server offer different experiences, you should try a low pop one sometime and get into the idea that you could be the last man alive on the planet. If you play this way, actually meeting a player is far more nerve wracking than on a populated server. The best way is to try both types of playstyle depending on your mood, like I do.

[hefeweizen 254]

I don't think every player who plays DayZ is only here to exploit it.

Come on Jamz! This is like saying "I don't think most players on regular servers exploit 3rd person. They just like to look are their character." You're being naive again, and I really have a tough time believing that you actually believe it. If the DayZ community had a spirit animal, it would be the guy I linked in the video below.

http://www.twitch.tv/sincorpdt/b/506158847

 

[Jamz 253]

Come on Jamz! This is like saying "I don't think most players on regular servers exploit 3rd person. They just like to look are their character." You're being naive again, and I really have a tough time believing that you actually believe it. If the DayZ community had a spirit animal, it would be the guy I linked in the video below.

http://www.twitch.tv/sincorpdt/b/506158847

 

 

You sound like someone who has become jaded with the online communities of other multiplayer games to me. The DayZ community is different now to before the SA came out it's true, but there are still players who want to take this game seriously, however you obviously don't want to believe that. I don't know how your in game experiences with other players has been and that is what tends to shape a players opinion of the playerbase of this game (this forum seems to have become an outlet for aggression now) but mine on lower pop servers have generally been friendly, with the occasional server hopper only.

 

Again, I will also say that gearing up on a high pop server as a lone wolf is more difficult then in a group. Tell me, would you therefore be in favour of the introduction of a grouping mechanic to the game to balance this too?

Edited March 31, 2014 by Jamz

[hefeweizen 254]

 ...but there are still players who want to take this game seriously, however you obviously don't want to believe that.....

...Again, I will also say that gearing up on a high pop server as a lone wolf is more difficult then in a group. Tell me, would you therefore be in favour of the introduction of a grouping mechanic to the game to balance this too?...

I believe it, there are probably a small minority of honest players out there. But you seem to think that the majority of the DayZ players won't use any exploit they can. That is painfully naive. I mean come on, have you ever played on a regular server? Combat usually boils down to "Who exploited 3rd person more effectively?".

...and come on dude, grouping? You're once again just being deliberately obtuse. You know the difference between what is an exploit and what is an intended part of the game play.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[Jamz 253]

I believe it, there are probably a small minority of honest players out there. But you seem to think that the majority of the DayZ players won't use any exploit they can. That is painfully naive. I mean come on, have you ever played on a regular server? Combat usually boils down to "Who exploited 3rd person more effectively?".

...and come on dude, grouping? You're once again just being deliberately obtuse. You know the difference between what is an exploit and what is an intended part of the game play.

 

It sounds to me like your experiences with the regular servers are from high population servers. You should try low population ones sometime, you might just find yourself getting into combat situations a little less. Unless you're starting them of course. I don't think that putting all players on full servers will have any effect other than slowing the rate at which players gear up anyway, so it's fundamentally pointless as a fix.

 

Playing on low population servers is not an exploit, incidentally. Server hopping is and should be addressed, but not in they ways you have put forward.

[hellcat420 212]

they only way to solve this issue is bind characters to a single server. some stupid matchmaking system wont work.