One Thing Needs To Be Addressed [ROADMAP]

[Katana67 2907]

Server hopping which saves the player's location. Plain and simple.

 

There's been a ton of discussion on it, but the recent revelation of the (tentative or not) roadmap at Rezzed 2014 further underscores the need to address the issue.

 

I am not concerned about whether you think it's right or wrong on a personal level. Nothing could possibly matter less to the game as your silly moral hatred of/conviction for server hopping.

 

The fact remains, that as it stands now, it is detrimental to the included game mechanics (i.e. the loot system). Moreover, the focus of this particular thread will be the ways in which the current server hopping paradigm undercuts the intended inclusions of the development roadmap.

 

Specifically, location-saving server hopping completely and totally neuters the idea of persistent construction. Why barricade a building if one can just server hop into it and loot your stash? Why construct a house if one can just server hop inside? The issue needs to be addressed if these future aspects are to remain intact.

 

I have no issue with server hopping for purposes which are not intended to circumvent in-game mechanics (i.e. hooking up with friends, your server dies, your server loses population, etc.) However, the fact that when one switches servers (so long as you're on the same hive) one's player location is carried over... is truly the fundamental detrimental aspect of server hopping.

 

If you come here looking to demonize or praise server hopping, look elsewhere. Vitriol has no place here, and is the concern of imbeciles when compared to the tangible and pragmatic in-game consequences.

 

I've discussed this before, but now it gains immediacy with the outline of the roadmap. Several approaches have been suggested, none of which I'm sold on. So please, stop acting like I'm championing one or the other.

 

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep your gear, but respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep some of your gear, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep only your character's stats, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Lock characters down to the individual server within the hives

- Make all servers private hive

 

What approach would you favor? What one of your own would you suggest?

 

EDIT

 

Additional suggestions

- Wait and see about the loot system

- Have players spawn away from or be unable to spawn inside barricaded buildings (According to the Q/A at Rezzed, this is how they're going to approach this particular issue)

- Do nothing and choose to play on private hives

Edited March 29, 2014 by Katana67

[Electi 149]

I would suggest to simply fix spawn of loot, so you no need to hop.

GENIOUSLY don't you think?

[Katana67 2907]

I would suggest to simply fix spawn of loot, so you no need to hop.

GENIOUSLY don't you think?

 

Not really. One could still hop across servers to barracks, thus gaining easy access to loot.

 

Perhaps you could expand upon what you're saying? Because as long as loot spawns in a fixed position, based upon tables, then it will be vulnerable to location-saving server hopping.

[Judopunch 523]

Server hopping which saves the player's location. Plain and simple.

 

There's been a ton of discussion on it, but the recent revelation of the (tentative or not) roadmap at Rezzed 2014 further underscores the need to address the issue.

 

I am not concerned about whether you think it's right or wrong on a personal level. Nothing could possibly matter less to the game as your silly moral hatred of/conviction for server hopping.

 

The fact remains, that as it stands now, it is detrimental to the included game mechanics (i.e. the loot system). Moreover, the focus of this particular thread will be the ways in which the current server hopping paradigm undercuts the intended inclusions of the development roadmap.

 

Specifically, location-saving server hopping completely and totally neuters the idea of persistent construction. Why barricade a building if one can just server hop into it and loot your stash? Why construct a house if one can just server hop inside? The issue needs to be addressed if these future aspects are to remain intact.

 

I have no issue with server hopping for purposes which are not intended to circumvent in-game mechanics (i.e. hooking up with friends, your server dies, your server loses population, etc.) However, the fact that when one switches servers (so long as you're on the same hive) one's player location is carried over... is truly the fundamental detrimental aspect of server hopping.

 

If you come here looking to demonize or praise server hopping, look elsewhere. Vitriol has no place here, and is the concern of imbeciles when compared to the tangible and pragmatic in-game consequences.

 

I've discussed this before, but now it gains immediacy with the outline of the roadmap. Several approaches have been suggested, none of which I'm sold on.

 

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep your gear, but respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep some of your gear, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep only your character's stats, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Lock characters down to the individual server within the hives

- Make all servers private hive

 

What approach would you favor? What one of your own would you suggest?

You know private hives will exist correct? You know it will be your choice to play on private hives or hives with more than one server correct? You realize that loot will re-spawn at some point gimping 'server hoping' correct? You realize that your solution creates a list of problems in and of itself correct?

[Katana67 2907]

You know private hives will exist correct? You know it will be your choice to play on private hives or hives with more than one server correct? You realize that loot will re-spawn at some point gimping 'server hoping' correct? You realize that your solution creates a list of problems in and of itself correct?

 

Yep, I realize all of them except the third one. Which makes zero sense.

 

Respawning loot = more loot = more rewarding for server hopping

 

The problems created by the suggestions, of which, if you read... I am not sold on any of them (because they all have issues) pale in comparison to the detrimental effects of server hopping on the inclusions of the development roadmap. Much less day-to-day gameplay.

 

Moreover, simply because private hives will exist as an alternative doesn't mean that the vanilla (public hive) system isn't flawed.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Electi 149]

Not really. One could still hop across servers to barracks, thus gaining easy access to loot.

 

Perhaps you could expand upon what you're saying? Because as long as loot spawns in a fixed position, based upon tables, then it will be vulnerable to location-saving server hopping.

I mean that's loot will be spawn in random time, and after a few hours for example, or maybe a random delay - from 2 to 4 hour, between spawn of beens for example.Better to make bigger spawn time for weapons and rare items. And only a 50% of all loot on server will be spawned after restart, so you will need to walk among the desert from one place to another.

Not just because server restarts and you have new loot, hopping will be no need anymore, because someone looted here 1 hour ago, you come here - bang, you have loot too, no need to change server.

 

If you will bend one char to server - imagine - your server is full, hight ping, lags, bugs or zero players.

 

Reset player location upon switching servers.

 

That will cause a lot of bugs and problems, i think you will understand now because i don't wanna explain such an obvioausodasls things.

+

Time that you must join same server would not counts, only after you joined other - and then got back on the first one = you need to wait = no more combat loggers behind your ass

+

If you have been kicked,disconected = no time delay

 

UPD1.5

 

Respawning loot = more loot = more rewarding for server hopping

If you change server without any reason that i wrote above, you need to wait few minutes.

 

BTW. How does those hoppers fucks you? If someone logged-out on airfield does not mean he is hopper.

Few days ago i met such dude, he just fapped on second floor, pointed gun in door, when someone opened it = got some iron in the abdomen.It was un-looted.

If players suck(actually a lot of them are), can they play AS THE DUCKING WISH?And payed? 

+

Less loot = more KOS

+

More runners(loot on run - ruining atmosphere)

Edited March 28, 2014 by Electi

[Katana67 2907]

I mean that's loot will be spawn in random time, and after a few hours for example, or maybe a random delay - from 2 to 4 hour, between spawn of beens for example.Better to make bigger spawn time for weapons and rare items. And only a 50% of all loot on server will be spawned after restart, so you will need to walk among the desert from one place to another.

Not just because server restarts and you have new loot, hopping will be no need anymore, because someone looted here 1 hour ago, you come here - bang, you have loot too, no need to change server.

 

If you will bend one char to server - imagine - your server is full, hight ping, lags, bugs or zero players.

 

That will cause a lot of bugs and problems, i think you will understand now because i don't wanna explain such an obvioausodasls things.

+

Time that you must join same server would not counts, only after you joined other - and then got back on the first one = you need to wait = no more combat loggers behind your ass

+

If you have been kicked,disconected = no time delay

 

Yes, which is why one's location would change. Not one's gear.

 

Again, the fact that you can switch servers in the same location implies that you can ACCESS HIGH-VALUE LOOT LOCATIONS with relative ease. The rate at which loot spawns doesn't remove that fact. One still has the option of looting a server, switching, seeing no loot on the second server, then switching to another server.

[Judopunch 523]

Yep, I realize all of them except the third one. Which makes zero sense.

 

Respawning loot = more loot = more rewarding for server hopping

 

The problems created by the suggestions, of which, if you read... I am not sold on any of them (because they all have issues) pale in comparison to the detrimental effects of server hopping on the inclusions of the development roadmap. Much less day-to-day gameplay.

 

Moreover, simply because private hives will exist as an alternative doesn't mean that the vanilla (public hive) system isn't flawed.

The loot economy will enable them to tweek the spawning of loot to reward you with exploring for said loot. Right now loot always spawns on server reset. With loot spawn enabled you can join a server and loot may or may not have spawned in that location for hours.

 

Also there is no real problem because you can simply play on a private hive. I was trying to illustrate that it will be less severe on release. But simply playing on a private hive negates the issue and I fail to see why you are making a post about it.

[Katana67 2907]

The loot economy will enable them to tweek the spawning of loot to reward you with exploring for said loot. Right now loot always spawns on server reset. With loot spawn enabled you can join a server and loot may or may not have spawned in that location for hours.

 

Also there is no real problem because you can simply play on a private hive. I was trying to illustrate that it will be less severe on release. But simply playing on a private hive negates the issue and I fail to see why you are making a post about it.

 

Fixing the issue also negates the issue, and doesn't marginalize public hive. Ignoring the issue by going to private hives doesn't solve the issue. That's why I made a post.

 

Your first statement is correct. However, one can still keep cycling servers which may not have been looted yet. Thus the problem remains. One is still saving one's location (i.e. next to barracks) only to server hop.

[pillock 850]

Someone asked this question in the Q&A session after Dean did the presentation at Rezzed, didn't they? He said they were working on a system where people wouldn't be able to spawn inside a barricade?

[Katana67 2907]

Someone asked this question in the Q&A session after Dean did the presentation at Rezzed, didn't they? He said they were working on a system where people wouldn't be able to spawn inside a barricade?

 

If so that's great news! Although spawning inside of a barricade is one thing, spawning next to a place that you know player's will be (i.e. tactical hopping) is another issue as well. And it still undercuts the loot system just the same.

 

I didn't catch the Q/A, but this would resolve most of the issues with regard to construction. But that is encouraging.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Katana67

[Electi 149]

Yes, which is why one's location would change. Not one's gear.

 

Again, the fact that you can switch servers in the same location implies that you can ACCESS HIGH-VALUE LOOT LOCATIONS with relative ease. The rate at which loot spawns doesn't remove that fact. One still has the option of looting a server, switching, seeing no loot on the second server, then switching to another server.

I wrote an updates to my post while you wrote some reply, read them, it's give some answers

Edited March 28, 2014 by Electi

[So Sexy 259]

Private hives and/or 1 char per server within a hive.Resetting spawn isnt the best option imo, imagine running with a friend and bam, server goes down, and you both spawn on opposite edges of the map.

[IshFingers 26]

I'd like to wait and see how their loot re-spawn system works before I think up alternative suggestions to killing off server-hopping (perhaps 'killing off' is too strong of a term. Let's say... Encourage players to remain on their home server.) And that sort of implies my response to your question - I like to think people will naturally, organically, favour one server or another and stick to it. Doesn't really need intervention.

Sure there will be bugs [loot re-spawn] and it won't be flawless upon initial release, but knowing that loot could re-appear nearby will give the impetus to go and find it, rather than log of... Wait 5 minutes... Log on and hope. If fails, rinse & repeat. And the great thing? Once X amount has been looted in a designated area, it will re-appear. Meaning on a busier server, it will re-appear sooner (more people collecting more stuff etc. etc.)

It could also dictate how people move about the map, adding new tactical aspects to the game.

Similarly, I'm sure the barricading issue you touched upon will be at the front of their minds. It's a blindingly obvious potential 'break' which should be at the front of their minds. Though it would not surprise me if it was dealt with in stages; I.E. Release barricading feature, wait a few weeks, release patch addressing known issues.

There's still a lot of work to be done across the board, both gameplay wise to server issues, gear/items/VEHICLES etc. and they will all need to be carefully balanced to fine-tune this game into fulfilling what potential we can see it has.

We will have to wait and see...

[Katana67 2907]

snip

 

Somehow I doubt loot will respawn on a timescale (i.e. shorter) that is more attractive than the timescale of server hopping to an empty server.

 

But yes, I agree with most of your sentiments.

[Katana67 2907]

I wrote an updates to my post while you wrote some reply, read them, it's give some answers

 

No, unfortunately it doesn't offer any answers. I'm not advocating for more or less loot at all. The loot system needs server hopping to be addressed, not the other way around.

 

Even if someone logged out at the airfield for a legitimate reason, he/she still has access to that location on all of the servers (via server hopping). Incentive needs to be given to stay on the same server.

[Publik 404]

Server hopping which saves the player's location. Plain and simple.

 

There's been a ton of discussion on it, but the recent revelation of the (tentative or not) roadmap at Rezzed 2014 further underscores the need to address the issue.

 

I am not concerned about whether you think it's right or wrong on a personal level. Nothing could possibly matter less to the game as your silly moral hatred of/conviction for server hopping.

 

The fact remains, that as it stands now, it is detrimental to the included game mechanics (i.e. the loot system). Moreover, the focus of this particular thread will be the ways in which the current server hopping paradigm undercuts the intended inclusions of the development roadmap.

 

Specifically, location-saving server hopping completely and totally neuters the idea of persistent construction. Why barricade a building if one can just server hop into it and loot your stash? Why construct a house if one can just server hop inside? The issue needs to be addressed if these future aspects are to remain intact.

 

I have no issue with server hopping for purposes which are not intended to circumvent in-game mechanics (i.e. hooking up with friends, your server dies, your server loses population, etc.) However, the fact that when one switches servers (so long as you're on the same hive) one's player location is carried over... is truly the fundamental detrimental aspect of server hopping.

 

If you come here looking to demonize or praise server hopping, look elsewhere. Vitriol has no place here, and is the concern of imbeciles when compared to the tangible and pragmatic in-game consequences.

 

I've discussed this before, but now it gains immediacy with the outline of the roadmap. Several approaches have been suggested, none of which I'm sold on.

 

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep your gear, but respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep some of your gear, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Reset player location upon switching servers. You keep only your character's stats, and respawn elsewhere (i.e. on the coast)

- Lock characters down to the individual server within the hives

- Make all servers private hive

 

What approach would you favor? What one of your own would you suggest?

When you spawn in, your character "drifts" 1-2km away from their start position and away from other players not on your friends list. In such a way, if you were to hop on an airfield, you'd always spawn 1-2km away. If someone was on the other side of the airfield, you'd spawn opposite. If your buddies joined in as well, they'd also spawn in the same direction as you since your character is ignored for the direction. I'll potatochop a visual in a second for how it could work.

 

Some items for basebuilding (generators, etc) might increase this spawn distance for anyone not a part of that generator's list of inhabitants and might decrease the spawn distance for those that are on the list.

 

Edit: Going to do some code stuff and make an example in Suggestions. brb.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Publik

[Katana67 2907]

That makes the most sense. Wonder if it will just move you X number of feet away then spawn you. If so I'm gonna laugh when someone spawns in front of a barricade manned by armed by bandits.

 

The only issue that I have with this is that it'd have to be specific.

 

Would it spawn you away from a building if it had ONE lousy window barricaded? Just the door? All of it?

[IshFingers 26]

Somehow I doubt loot will respawn on a timescale (i.e. shorter) that is more attractive than the timescale of server hopping to an empty server.

 

But yes, I agree with most of your sentiments.

The timescale is what I took to be the meaning from the roadmap - world divided into quadrants, which reset after X amount of time once looted. Though it does raise further questions: How much loot needs to be taken to trigger the re-spawn? What happens to players in this radius? (Possible Hunger Games/Battle Royale-type scenario gets my vote, but I've got no idea how that could be explained/implemented without ruining immersion.) Would this be on top of server resets? And could players manipulate the re-spawn mechanic? I'm sure they could - and undoubtedly will - which is yet something else that will need to be addressed.

Sorry, derailing gone on long enough. I'll stop now.

[Katana67 2907]

The timescale is what I took to be the meaning from the roadmap - world divided into quadrants, which reset after X amount of time once looted. Though it does raise further questions: How much loot needs to be taken to trigger the re-spawn? What happens to players in this radius? (Possible Hunger Games/Battle Royale-type scenario gets my vote, but I've got no idea how that could be explained/implemented without ruining immersion.) Would this be on top of server resets? And could players manipulate the re-spawn mechanic? I'm sure they could - and undoubtedly will - which is yet something else that will need to be addressed.

Sorry, derailing gone on long enough. I'll stop now.

 

Haha, no, this is all contextual stuff that needs to be discussed. Much more stimulating than the "shut up and deal with it" approach.

 

I agree, there's a lot that'd need to be hammered out. But, the timescale would have to be pretty darn quick if it were to compete with server hopping. Which I'm not a fan of.

[Katana67 2907]

Well if it had one window barricaded would it matter if you spawned inside? I mean you may as well since you could simply walk in the front door LOL

 

Not at all! I'm just saying that they'd have to decide what a truly "barricaded" building is. Would it be just the doors? All of it?

 

Likewise, they'd have to decide what a truly "barricaded" building is in terms of the mechanic used to spawn people outside/away from said barricaded building.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

It's called force players to teleport outside of buildings when they log into them. Log into a server when you logged out in the firestation, spawn right outside it.

 

Boom.

 

Zoom.

 

Shoom.

[babypuncher71 22]

I can see this being ported over to consoles really quickly.....

The units they have sold 1.7million is nothing compared to the units they will see if its ported over to console....

And by the looks they are getting more people and smart ones by the sound of it as well,(that's not to say there isn't smart people involved already)

But i do like the road map i see..

[Publik 404]

Posted a spawning mechanic example here if anyone is interested.

[gibonez 3633]

All of this would be fixed with private hives.