helo's still endgame!

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

I'm not sure how they can keep talking about things like barricading buildings and construction without addressing location-persistent server hopping. This wholly undercuts these types of mechanics, and needs to be addressed before they tackle them.

 

Absolutely.

 

These are huge changes that are being discussed and would completely change meta game behavior for sure.

 

It makes a guy wonder if Dean ever plays his own game.

 

:|

[makomachine 263]

Anything that drives server hopping for gear breaks the game. I can picture empty servers barren of loot as a fresh spawn, with helo sweeps of the beach. Just not what I bought the game for and not realistic to how the apocalypse would play out obviously.

Helo's don't fit this storyline. We aren't the 'army fighting off the apocalypse' - we are survivors carving out our way in the apocalypsei. Extremely unlikely that a helo pilot in 225k area makes it as survivor when the crap hits the fan - much less that anyone can 'teach themselves' how to fix AND fly one.

I just think this takes the game in the wrong direction for these reasons.

[archone88 29]

Id imagine that the late alpha/beta could have helicopters, while still being able to server hop.

 

Once the game is released, most servers will be private hives. (or should be) So seing an actually working heli will be rare as f***!

[irl-calibre 744]

I suppose it's okay if it's only with big things like helicopters. I might be able to get behind that, simply because I'll probably NEVER use it. But if it starts to bleed into other areas, I'm not sure I'll be as content.

 

i'd say this applies just to big ticket items, probably things like NVG's, thermal AS50's etc etc.  i'd imagine

[Deathlove 2286]

Anything that drives server hopping for gear breaks the game. I can picture empty servers barren of loot as a fresh spawn, with helo sweeps of the beach. Just not what I bought the game for and not realistic to how the apocalypse would play out obviously.

Helo's don't fit this storyline. We aren't the 'army fighting off the apocalypse' - we are survivors carving out our way in the apocalypsei. Extremely unlikely that a helo pilot in 225k area makes it as survivor when the crap hits the fan - much less that anyone can 'teach themselves' how to fix AND fly one.

I just think this takes the game in the wrong direction for these reasons.

Its like a big middle finger to the realism aspect of survival.

[Katana67 2907]

Anything that drives server hopping for gear breaks the game. I can picture empty servers barren of loot as a fresh spawn, with helo sweeps of the beach. Just not what I bought the game for and not realistic to how the apocalypse would play out obviously.

Helo's don't fit this storyline. We aren't the 'army fighting off the apocalypse' - we are survivors carving out our way in the apocalypsei. Extremely unlikely that a helo pilot in 225k area makes it as survivor when the crap hits the fan - much less that anyone can 'teach themselves' how to fix AND fly one.

I just think this takes the game in the wrong direction for these reasons.

 

Meh, a lot of things are pretty unlikely to happen in DayZ. Yet they form the backbone of the experience.

 

Not to mention that this type to thing seems DESIGNED to make helicopters, as you say, unlikely to be seen.

 

I don't have an issue with helicopters, they caused some of the most tense moments I've ever had in a video game.

 

With that said, I disagree heavily with their proposed approach. They NEED to address server-hopping before the majority of their proposed roadmap can happen.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Katana67

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

Meh, a lot of things are pretty unlikely to happen in DayZ. Yet they form the backbone of the experience.

 

Not to mention that this type to thing seems DESIGNED to make helicopters, as you say, unlikely to be seen.

 

I don't have an issue with helicopters, they caused some of the most tense moments I've ever had in a video game.

 

With that said, I disagree heavily with their proposed approach. They NEED to address server-hopping before the majority of their proposed roadmap can happen.

 

 

The inherent problem with a central hive is that even with a managed loot economy server hopping is not only inevitable, it is the preferred method to gear quickly and efficiently.

 

Private hives are the only way to break this cycle but go counter to the entire premise of the central hive.

 

Is the idea of character bound loot even tenable?

 

Making server hopping have zero rewards should be the goal but from what I just saw it seems they are intent on making it even more prevalent.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

i'd say this applies just to big ticket items, probably things like NVG's, thermal AS50's etc etc.  i'd imagine

 

That reads like a list of shit that no sane person wants in-game. 

 

Include pre-apocalypse technology that functions on a level that no untrained person or persons could hope to operate or support logistically to that list.

[Katana67 2907]

The inherent problem with a central hive is that even with a managed loot economy server hopping is not only inevitable, it is the preferred method to gear quickly and efficiently.

 

Private hives are the only way to break this cycle but go counter to the entire premise of the central hive.

 

Is the idea of character bound loot even tenable?

 

Making server hopping have zero rewards should be the goal but from what I just saw it seems they are intent on making it even more prevalent.

 

I've always been of a similar mind.

 

Either do away with public hive servers in favor of all private. Make the characters fixed to the server. Or reset character locations on server swap.

 

I'd actually be in favor of the last one, as it would allow folks who have legitimate reasons to switch (in a public hive paradigm), like hooking up with friends or the server dies, the ability to do so. However, it would disallow for easy looting when hopping and would remove the pseudo-teleporting ability that server hopping allows.

[amiasfree 262]

Its like a big middle finger to the realism aspect of survival.

If you want to talk realism, there is no reason humans *couldn't* repair helis after an apocalypse. 

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

If you want to talk realism, there is no reason humans *couldn't* repair helis after an apocalypse. 

 

Humans that have been trained, worked on and maintained that specific model of helicopter? Or just some guy that washed up on the beach?

 

How about the logistical concerns? Lubrications, oil, fuel, electricity, proper parts and tools...... did we wash up on the beach with any of that in our back pockets?

 

Helis are completely counter to the supposed survival aspects in DayZ.

[Deathlove 2286]

If you want to talk realism, there is no reason humans *couldn't* repair helis after an apocalypse. 

Well yeah thats another thing. A normal person shouldn't be able to magically have the knowledge to create a fully WORKING military helicopter. Plus they would need functional specialized tools and things to get it up and going. You CANT just go anywhere to get stuff ether.

 

No way in a real life situation would i even REMOTELY have the knowledge how the mechanics work without special training.

[Irish. 4886]

Did some of you ACTUALLY watch and understand the presentation?

 

It seems like some of you misunderstood a lot of what was said.. 

 

I personally found this presentation to be the most refreshing, and uplifting for what the future may hold for Dayz.. A lot of really good, and intelligent things are being done, and I really up until now had little faith that they were on a properly focused track for this game. Now I know they are.

 

If you are confused or think server hopping will get worse, etc.. I would suggest watching the video again.. and then research the parts that you do not fully understand.

[irl-calibre 744]

The inherent problem with a central hive is that even with a managed loot economy server hopping is not only inevitable, it is the preferred method to gear quickly and efficiently.

 

Private hives are the only way to break this cycle but go counter to the entire premise of the central hive.

 

Is the idea of character bound loot even tenable?

 

Making server hopping have zero rewards should be the goal but from what I just saw it seems they are intent on making it even more prevalent.

 

 

hey if you want a private hive I believe your wish will be granted and your server can have nothing more dangerous in it than home made bows and arrows, an ol' shotgun & hoe & pitchfork's where you can all be pumpkin farmers and fight just zombies & sit around camp fires singing songs if you want. not everyone wants that though.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Calibre

[BlinkingRiki182 54]

Anything that drives server hopping for gear breaks the game. I can picture empty servers barren of loot as a fresh spawn, with helo sweeps of the beach. Just not what I bought the game for and not realistic to how the apocalypse would play out obviously.

Helo's don't fit this storyline. We aren't the 'army fighting off the apocalypse' - we are survivors carving out our way in the apocalypsei. Extremely unlikely that a helo pilot in 225k area makes it as survivor when the crap hits the fan - much less that anyone can 'teach themselves' how to fix AND fly one.

I just think this takes the game in the wrong direction for these reasons.

 

* M16 Rifles don't fit the game - it's extremely unlikely that a M16 rifle can be found laying around in Russia (withing 225km area)

* Random survivors with the ability to shoot guns and sniper rifles like veteran soldiers don't fit the game. I would prefer to make this more accurate - make women characters unable to shoot guns and if they try, make the recoil bump the rifle in their face.

* Running like crazy for hours doesn't fit the game. Make sure people get tired and make them rest so the road to Electro can last forever because it's the most interesting part of the game.

* Eating 50000kcal a day doesn't fit the game. Make a single can of tactical bacon last forever.

* Going around all day without pooping or peeing doesn't fit the game. Make sure characters take a break to poop in the middle of a firefight.

 

I just think these things take the game in the wrong direction. Also I demand an USB peripherial with an attached axe/matchete/gun/whatever to stab me/shoot me in the same pleace that I've been shot/stabbed in the game.

Edited March 28, 2014 by BlinkingRiki182

[makomachine 263]

If you want to talk realism, there is no reason humans *couldn't* repair helis after an apocalypse.

I'm pretty sure I can give you a wrench and a lot of time and you can't repair or fly a helicopter. No power and no Google in the apocalypse. (That is unless you are an aviation mechanic and trained pilot). You try and fly a helicopter untrained for the first time, you'll likely never leave the ground, or die. If there was respawning irl - your second, third, and tenth time would be the same. This isn't driving a car or riding a bike - where a majority of people know how to do these things. Your reality just isn't syncing with mine.

It doesn't fit in this game. Arma? Yes. A survival game (SA)? No.

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

I've always been of a similar mind.

 

Either do away with public hive servers in favor of all private. Make the characters fixed to the server. Or reset character locations on server swap.

 

I'd actually be in favor of the last one, as it would allow folks who have legitimate reasons to switch (in a public hive paradigm), like hooking up with friends or the server dies, the ability to do so. However, it would disallow for easy looting when hopping and would remove the pseudo-teleporting ability that server hopping allows.

 

Yes it is a big problem with no readily apparent solution.

 

Having your character randomly change position upon server change would break immersion as well IMO. The whole central hive thing is a novel idea but to me not ideal for DayZ unless it can deal with hoppers properly.

 

The log in timer is a good start to deal with ghosting which to me was the worse issue. 

 

The announcement of no timer for re-joining one server is better, perhaps they could lengthen dramatically the timer for others?

[blunce 991]

maybe thats a bit too rare :P, maybe 1 for every 2-5 servers? or you need multiple people to take care of it, like say 5 grouup members looting the entire map all at once for an hour to actually get half, to all the peices for the heli to go off. i dont know, if there was 2 server wide, then it gets shot down, id be pissed, severly pissed, might as well not even add it if its that rare.

Good contribution. The way I'm thinking about it (rarity wise), is that say there were only 2 in circulation across all servers; if one were to get shot down, only at that point would a new helo & parts needed for it, begin to spawn across Chernarus. Once there are 2 fully functional helos in circulation, they would no longer spawn (nor the parts) until one is destroyed again. Just my two cents :beans:

[Deathlove 2286]

* Random survivors with the ability to shoot guns and sniper rifles like veteran soldiers don't fit the game. I would prefer to make this more accurate - make women characters unable to shoot guns and if they try, make the recoil bump the rifle in their face.

 

 

This part is completely sexist and i don't quite agree on.

 

The rest seems to be in the right place.

[makomachine 263]

Did some of you ACTUALLY watch and understand the presentation?

 

It seems like some of you misunderstood a lot of what was said.. 

 

I personally found this presentation to be the most refreshing, and uplifting for what the future may hold for Dayz.. A lot of really good, and intelligent things are being done, and I really up until now had little faith that they were on a properly focused track for this game. Now I know they are.

 

If you are confused or think server hopping will get worse, etc.. I would suggest watching the video again.. and then research the parts that you do not fully understand.

I need to watch it then and trust things aren't being spoken to clearly here. Not where I can do that at the moment but will take a breathe and review as soon as I can. Your post makes me feel a bit better that I missed something in translation...

[blunce 991]

Did some of you ACTUALLY watch and understand the presentation?

 

It seems like some of you misunderstood a lot of what was said.. 

I'm in work & haven't been able to watch it, so excuse my ignorance

[BlinkingRiki182 54]

 

* Random survivors with the ability to shoot guns and sniper rifles like veteran soldiers don't fit the game. I would prefer to make this more accurate - make women characters unable to shoot guns and if they try, make the recoil bump the rifle in their face.

 

 

This part is completely sexist and i don't quite agree on.

 

The rest seems to be in the right place.

 

 

I'm sorry about that :) Maybe I took it a notch too far. It was just ment as a joke :)

[AryanBoogeyman 185]

hey if you want a private hive I believe your wish will be granted and your server can have nothing more dangerous in it than home made bows and arrows, an ol' shotgun & hoe & pitchfork's where you can all be pumpkin farmers and fight just zombies & sit around camp fires singing songs if you want. not everyone wants that though.

 

You assume too much.

 

Having seen the laughing stock that abundant helis make of the game in the mod, I speak from experience when I say they are better off left out.

 

Fixed wing small aircraft would do the same job but would have significant drawbacks that a military heli just doesn't have.

 

If you want a military flight game there are plenty out there. DayZ really needs to focus more on the survival aspects like Dean mentioned.

[Irish. 4886]

Humans that have been trained, worked on and maintained that specific model of helicopter? Or just some guy that washed up on the beach?

 

How about the logistical concerns? Lubrications, oil, fuel, electricity, proper parts and tools...... did we wash up on the beach with any of that in our back pockets?

 

Helis are completely counter to the supposed survival aspects in DayZ.

Was there a manual for the first fire built? Did someone just magically come up with how to build a pyramid? 

 

People are very resourceful. It would not be too difficult to do. You find a helicopter at the airport right? You would also find the mechanics hanger there too.. which would have all of the tools, and literature, supplies you should need. A man could spend 30 years building a helicopter in an apocalypse. But he would if he had a reason to. And nothing but death would stop him.

 

I get people not wanting this in game, but the argument over reality (IRL) and what is possible.. plausible.. is just silly. You cannot say that humans could not, should not, or would not be able to perform a task simply because other humans had mostly died off. You just can't. I mean, we had to start somewhere and look where humanity is now? 

Edited March 28, 2014 by lrish

[blunce 991]

I'm pretty sure I can give you a wrench and a lot of time and you can't repair or fly a helicopter. No power and no Google in the apocalypse. (That is unless you are an aviation mechanic and trained pilot).

It's things like this that made me always think that all the books in game should be "skill books" (i.e. you cannot repair a helicopter until you've found & read a "Mechanic" skill book) :)

 

I'll be writing this in the suggestion subforum later haha :D

 

P.S. sorry for straying from the topic a bit..