The reason Zombie clipping isn't fixed.

[res 373]

Lol and besides, doesn't anyone know how to deal with BIS bugs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjyN1F4Rhr4

It's why I love them so much! :D

 

Yeah, but in compensation of going through all of these bugs and glitches I want a bug like this:

 

[Rick1633 136]

Don't push it bro. You got off the hook cheaply last time.

If you can't make your argument without all the trash talking, then you should consider not arguing at all.

 

I'm sick of all these naysayers. First, they foresaw SA not coming out ever, when we got alpha version, they move out to predict another doom's day scenario (Rocket and/or BInot giving cr@p about SA, H1Z1 being the next savior of game industry and not P2W fiasco etc). 

 

I doubt you were forced to buy DayZ SA alpha or that you had to sell your kidney (or better half of your brain) to be able to afford it. Just give it more time, BI is not going anywhere.

BI may not be going anywhere, but it appears neither are  zombies that ghost through walls, invisible zombies that hit you due to desync, or the fact that we have to hit our weapon hot key 5 times to pull your weapon out once if there are more than 25 people on a server.   I only trash talk when someone makes up a ridiculous excuse as to why a 40 million dollar revenue project has not addressed laughable zombie mechanics that is in a game about zombies.

[Jex 1104]

Does anyone saying they can't understand why the zombies can't be fixed know anything about coding AI or making them interact with the 3D environment? Everyone here seems to be an expert and yet when people who know what they are talking about post up some facts, they seem to get wholly ignored.

[Rick1633 136]

Does anyone saying they can't understand why the zombies can't be fixed know anything about coding AI or making them interact with the 3D environment? Everyone here seems to be an expert and yet when people who know what they are talking about post up some facts, they seem to get wholly ignored.

But tell me how 40 million in revenue can't find talent to rewrite the core mechanics in the months and months that BI and Dean knew the game was going to be successful?  You are telling me that if the took just 2 million of that cash and posted a bounty for the bightest and hardest working programming teams in the world, they could not find anyone to fix it?  I bet my life, that in 90 days of the most talented and hardest working coders, the core or at least zombies would be near fixed.  

[Thadius (DayZ) 40]

They have an entire 40 person team working on only zombie AI and pathfinding in Slovakia...so give it some time. However, I have noticed that some buildings the infected don't clip through like they used to. For example, hangars. They now run all the way around and through the front doors, when they used to clip through the walls.

 

What on Gods glorious oblong Earth are you basing this on? Could you link me to the article where this is mentioned?

 

Because to be absolutely blunt, I would be about as suddenly surprised as a man dropping a soap in a Maximum Security Prison for Rear End Molesters if the entire DayZ staff (including the guys doing the hunting stuff) is even that big.

 

To me, this entire development screams "small production team", with an unwillingness by the powers that be to spend any of their already earned profits to expand said team to something that can really pump out the changes.

 

People think this Early Access thing is some sort of Kickstarter, where more sales will equal more investment into the game.

 

My theory is it does not. That actually the opposite is true. The more DayZ SA sells, the more saturated the market becomes, the less willing the men holding the purse strings will be to invest money they already got in the bank, for what could be all risk and no reward.

 

So goes my theory I have mentioned here before atleast. I am not insinuating the DayZ SA team is bad, or being dishonest. Just understaffed. And unable/unwilling to expand said staff.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Thadius

[Jex 1104]

But tell me how 40 million in revenue can't find talent to rewrite the core mechanics in the months and months that BI and Dean knew the game was going to be successful?  You are telling me that if the took just 2 million of that cash and posted a bounty for the bightest and hardest working programming teams in the world, they could not find anyone to fix it?  I bet my life, that in 90 days of the most talented and hardest working coders, the core or at least zombies would be near fixed.  

 

Yeah when you learn how the real world works you'll understand how ridiculous that sounds. I don't pretend to know anything about game development so I don't come howling onto the forums demanding things like a 2 year old throwing his teddy out the pram (I'm not sya you are like this, btw). I did a little coding at college but that was years ago so I have at least a basic understanding of how things work.

 

So can you tell me why you think BIS are so incompetent by drawing on your vast knowledge of making video games? Could you provide references on titles you've worked on in the past? Could you also show you business acumen and list corporations you have started which have been successful? No you can't so why do you think you have the answer to how BIS should run their business and code their games?

 

It sounds like you're just demanding they make the game quicker because you want to play it. You do realise that you can still play it 6 months from now, right? So what's the rush?

[Karmaterror 982]

But tell me how 40 million in revenue can't find talent to rewrite the core mechanics in the months and months that BI and Dean knew the game was going to be successful?  You are telling me that if the took just 2 million of that cash and posted a bounty for the bightest and hardest working programming teams in the world, they could not find anyone to fix it?  I bet my life, that in 90 days of the most talented and hardest working coders, the core or at least zombies would be near fixed.  

 

Seriously what are you on about....they only knew it would be so successful after it was put out there. THEY HAVE identified its success, and have started allocating funds to provide more staff. Its been 2 months since that was even a viable option. So in those two months they have bought out nother studio and dedicated them to zombie AI. That's a huge investment in only one part of the game. And was done pretty quickly (within 2-3 months) or realising the potential of dayz.

 

As for your bounty idea....it wouldn't work. Dev teams around the world would undercut eachother to get the contract.....each making more outlandish claims to secure the contract. Then what if they don't deliver? simply because there estimates were dreams just to secure the work.

 

NASA picked the lowest quote for the ISS....it overran by something like triple the budget and twice the time. That's what can happen when you make companies compete with guesses. They instead hand picked a team they trusted and put them to work :)

[Sinphaltimus 262]

But tell me how 40 million in revenue can't find talent to rewrite the core mechanics in the months and months that BI and Dean knew the game was going to be successful?  You are telling me that if the took just 2 million of that cash and posted a bounty for the bightest and hardest working programming teams in the world, they could not find anyone to fix it?  I bet my life, that in 90 days of the most talented and hardest working coders, the core or at least zombies would be near fixed.  

 

 

There's nothing to fix. The final implementation has not been included yet. What we have now is a temporary place holder until such a time when the game is ready for the final solution. Your entire argument is based on your lack of patience in waiting for it. The devs will take care of it in due time. Right now is not the time despite how strongly you feel about it.

 

EDIT: I had to make corrections to stupid mobile autocorrect.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Sinphaltimus

[Jex 1104]

What on Gods glorious oblong Earth are you basing this on? Could you link me to the article where this is mentioned?

 

Because to be absolutely blunt, I would be about as suddenly surprised as a man dropping a soap in a Maximum Security Prison for Rear End Molesters if the entire DayZ staff (including the guys doing the hunting stuff) is even that big.

 

To me, this entire development screams "small production team", with an unwillingness by the powers that be to spend any of their already earned profits to expand said team to something that can really pump out the changes.

 

People think this Early Access thing is some sort of Kickstarter, where more sales will equal more investment into the game.

 

My theory is it does not. That actually the opposite is true. The more DayZ SA sells, the more saturated the market becomes, the less willing the men holding the purse strings will be to invest money they already got in the bank, for what could be all risk and no reward.

 

So goes my theory I have mentioned here before atleast. I am not insinuating the DayZ SA team is bad, or being dishonest. Just understaffed. And unable/unwilling to expand said staff.

 

AFAIK BIS bought a software house from the profits, thus expanding the company and that software house is working on the zeds. The team working on the hunting is being paid to do the work but haven't been purchased by BIS. BIS also have other projects they are working on i suspect (why wouldn't they? They still need to work on Arma3). 

 

They are also a small company so it would be stupid to just throw out money on buying a hundred staff just so they could make the game a little quicker because of some self entitled gamers that think they should have a fully working game yesterday. Whiney selfish knobs tend to get ignored in reality.

 

I don't think BIS are selfish. I remember reading Dean saying in an interview that he wanted BIS CEO to charge more for the SA EA but the CEO said no. They could have charged more and people would have paid it like BIS could cut their modding ability and charge for DLC's or they could make arma just like cod and sell out to the idiot crowd of players and make 10 times the money. What you need to ask is why in all these years BIS haven't sold out and have a solid community behind them (even if they do wind us up with every new release of Arma).

[lipemr 160]

But tell me how 40 million in revenue can't find talent to rewrite the core mechanics in the months and months that BI and Dean knew the game was going to be successful?  You are telling me that if the took just 2 million of that cash and posted a bounty for the bightest and hardest working programming teams in the world, they could not find anyone to fix it?  I bet my life, that in 90 days of the most talented and hardest working coders, the core or at least zombies would be near fixed.  

 

dont even start an argument with this guy, you'll lose your time, believe me.

 

Doesnt matter what you say on these forums, people will just tell you to stfu and wait, and apparently everything is a placeholder to the final goal, bad thing is that instead of developing the final product, they keep fiddling with these placeholders and constantly fucking things up.

 

Be glad no one yelled alpher or pasted the disclaimer at you, as they usually do.

[hombrecz 832]

BI may not be going anywhere, but it appears neither are  zombies that ghost through walls, invisible zombies that hit you due to desync, or the fact that we have to hit our weapon hot key 5 times to pull your weapon out once if there are more than 25 people on a server.   I only trash talk when someone makes up a ridiculous excuse as to why a 40 million dollar revenue project has not addressed laughable zombie mechanics that is in a game about zombies.

 

Was playing last 3 nights at experimental with 40+ people and game was responsive and rather smooth. Did not need to hit key more then once most of the time.

 

You, me and over 90% of folks on this forum knows zero about game development, that's a fact. We also do not have great knowledge of what exactly is brewing in BI regarding DayZ SA. So what really seems ridiculous is you trash talking game development since you, me and most other folks do not have a clue.

 

Let's be patient till the end of the year, if by then zombies are not FAR better then now, if the game does not have most of the features implemented, then yes, then please DO trash talk all you can. Right now you are a bit too early on hate train.

[lipemr 160]

Was playing last 3 nights at experimental with 40+ people and game was responsive and rather smooth. Did not need to hit key more then once most of the time.

 

You, me and over 90% of folks on this forum knows zero about game development, that's a fact. We also do not have great knowledge of what exactly is brewing in BI regarding DayZ SA. So what really seems ridiculous is you trash talking game development since you, me and most other folks do not have a clue.

 

Let's be patient till the end of the year, if by then zombies are not FAR better then now, if the game does not have most of the features implemented, then yes, then please DO trash talk all you can. Right now you are a bit too early on hate train.

 

people like me and him wont even care anymore then, maybe we will only get here to tell you a big "i told you" and laugh a bit off the fanboys that defended this title with all their resources.

 

That's a big maybe, though. I seriously expect that they'll prove me wrong and this game turn out to be the golden release of the decade, but i'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen.

Edited April 22, 2014 by lipemr

[Thadius (DayZ) 40]

AFAIK BIS bought a software house from the profits, thus expanding the company and that software house is working on the zeds. The team working on the hunting is being paid to do the work but haven't been purchased by BIS. BIS also have other projects they are working on i suspect (why wouldn't they? They still need to work on Arma3). 

 

They are also a small company so it would be stupid to just throw out money on buying a hundred staff just so they could make the game a little quicker because of some self entitled gamers that think they should have a fully working game yesterday. Whiney selfish knobs tend to get ignored in reality.

 

I don't think BIS are selfish. I remember reading Dean saying in an interview that he wanted BIS CEO to charge more for the SA EA but the CEO said no. They could have charged more and people would have paid it like BIS could cut their modding ability and charge for DLC's or they could make arma just like cod and sell out to the idiot crowd of players and make 10 times the money. What you need to ask is why in all these years BIS haven't sold out and have a solid community behind them (even if they do wind us up with every new release of Arma).

I am not sure who you are speaking to here or if you are even trying to contend any of my points with valid arguments. You are rambling all over the place, creating strawmen and calling people who disagree "self entitled", "whiney selfish snobs". and "idiot crowds".

This is not conducive to a good argument.

 

Bottom line is that they have over one million sales. And the game is not even "out" yet.

Putting myself in the shoes of accountants that may, or may not, love the smell of money, I would be hesitant to pour more money into a product that has basically saturated its target audience market.

 

I am not making this about right or wrong or about ethics, you are. All I am highlighting is a possible reason why the development of things such as Zombie AI pathfinding is slow.

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

I am not sure who you are speaking to here or if you are even trying to contend any of my points with valid arguments. You are rambling all over the place, creating strawmen and calling people who disagree "self entitled", "whiney selfish snobs". and "idiot crowds".

This is not conducive to a good argument.

 

Bottom line is that they have over one million sales. And the game is not even "out" yet.

Putting myself in the shoes of accountants that may, or may not, love the smell of money, I would be hesitant to pour more money into a product that has basically saturated its target audience market.

 

I am not making this about right or wrong or about ethics, you are. All I am highlighting is a possible reason why the development of things such as Zombie AI pathfinding is slow.

 

I made a very similar argument to you last week. 

 

Spot on good sir. 

[lipemr 160]

Bottom line is that they have over one million sales. And the game is not even "out" yet.

Putting myself in the shoes of accountants that may, or may not, love the smell of money, I would be hesitant to pour more money into a product that has basically saturated its target audience market.

 

this

 

People have way too much faith in BI, they probably made more money with the dayz early access than they did with all of their other titles all together, the chance of them releasing another game that makes that much money is pretty much non existant.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if they made standalone die out by slowing the development speed till people get tired of this genre and move on, hence why i get so pissed af fanboys defending them at all costs.

 

Bohemia is a company, companies main objective is to earn money, bohemia already made probably all the money they will do in their lifetime, it would be much more smarter to them to get out of the game while they're with a ton of money than would be to invest effort and money in a game that already gave all the profit it could give.

 

It's just logic behind a economy point of view. You cant expect them to waste their money on a potentially 'flawed from the start' game just for their fans, that's not how it works.

 

BIS will probably invest the least money possible in the game from now on, just enough so the major chunk of the playerbase dont freak out and boycott their future projects. That's the more logical thing to do from the economical point of view.

Edited April 22, 2014 by lipemr

[Rick1633 136]

I cant believe that anyone can defend BI and the creator for broken zombies at this stage and level of success.  If my name was on the game as the creator, I would demand that the most broken and visible parts of the game that risk the immersion and ultimate success be addressed immediately and would not allow additional content until core issues are resolved.  My uncle owns a remodeling company.  If some lady orders a 20 thousand dollar kitchen remake and the new cabinets (the core of the kitchen)  that are made to order are taking too long or come in looking like shit....... You better believe your fucking life that he puts every available resource into getting proper cabinets made as quickly as possible. He doesnt start painting the walls ( like adding spray cans or adding new guns in the game)..... No, he is on the fucking phone with some other cabinet supplier that is happy to make 10k cabinets in just 5 days because the first cabinet maker fucked up and couldnt deliver..... BI and Dean need to pick the fucking phone up and call a different supplier for the core.  His fucking name is on the game.

[hombrecz 832]

people like me and him wont even care anymore then, maybe we will only get here to tell you a big "i told you" and laugh a bit off the fanboys that defended this title with all their resources.

 

That's a big maybe, though. I seriously expect that they'll prove me wrong and this game turn out to be the golden release of the decade, but i'm pretty sure that's not gonna happen.

 

Guess we will have to wait and see.

[Karmaterror 982]

Yes from a short term financial view, not pouring money into the game would protect profit. But how they handle this game now also speaks to the credibility of the company. Ultimatly its what they value most.....a quick cash grab now. Or to protect there integrity.

 

Choosing to back his game properly will build there reputation. That reputation will decide the minds of many customers in the future. A company with a good reputation is much more likely to survive, BI will already be thinking to the future beyond dayz, and the implications there conduct with dayz will have on that futre :)

[Jex 1104]

I am not sure who you are speaking to here or if you are even trying to contend any of my points with valid arguments. You are rambling all over the place, creating strawmen and calling people who disagree "self entitled", "whiney selfish snobs". and "idiot crowds".

This is not conducive to a good argument.

 

Bottom line is that they have over one million sales. And the game is not even "out" yet.

Putting myself in the shoes of accountants that may, or may not, love the smell of money, I would be hesitant to pour more money into a product that has basically saturated its target audience market.

 

I am not making this about right or wrong or about ethics, you are. All I am highlighting is a possible reason why the development of things such as Zombie AI pathfinding is slow.

 

Point out my strawmen please and the rest of my post was making a point. You can highlight a million reasons why development might be slow to you, and they can all still be wrong. It still isn't understanding the alpha process or what issues and obstacles the dev team have in coding the game. Until you are privy to that information why do we have to put up with whiners demanding the game gets made quicker when they have no understanding of what is going on. 

 

People are making out that BIS are making a cash grab, my post went someway to try and explain why I think that isn't the case by providing information some information that has already been posted.

[Karmaterror 982]

I cant believe that anyone can defend BI and the creator for broken zombies at this stage and level of success.  If my name was on the game as the creator, I would demand that the most broken and visible parts of the game that risk the immersion and ultimate success be addressed immediately and would not allow additional content until core issues are resolved.  My uncle owns a remodeling company.  If some lady orders a 20 thousand dollar kitchen remake and the new cabinets (the core of the kitchen)  that are made to order are taking too long or come in looking like shit....... You better believe your fucking life that he puts every available resource into getting proper cabinets made as quickly as possible. He doesnt start painting the walls ( like adding spray cans or adding new guns in the game)..... No, he is on the fucking phone with some other cabinet supplier that is happy to make 10k cabinets in just 5 days because the first cabinet maker fucked up and couldnt deliver..... BI and Dean need to pick the fucking phone up and call a different supplier for the core.  His fucking name is on the game.

 

If the original cabinet designer said it would take them 10 days....

 

And your on the phone 2.5 days in saying "why aren't they finished yet??"

 

Then are you being impatient....or is the cabinet company in the wrong?

 

You post as if the games final version was put out already....not like we are 25% into alpha....12.5% total dev time...check out guppys dayz SA loading bar for a visual aid.

 

Also as I said last time....with the money they made...they have bought a whole studio and put them on working on zombies (that seems to be your main gripe).....so they have done exactly what you wanted...put profit back into the game to address a core issue.

[xX_fr0st-w0lf_Xx (DayZ) 343]

Yes from a short term financial view, not pouring money into the game would protect profit. But how they handle this game now also speaks to the credibility of the company. Ultimatly its what they value most.....a quick cash grab now. Or to protect there integrity.

 

Choosing to back his game properly will build there reputation. That reputation will decide the minds of many customers in the future. A company with a good reputation is much more likely to survive, BI will already be thinking to the future beyond dayz, and the implications there conduct with dayz will have on that futre  :)

 

They don't have to halt the development process, that would be disastrous to the company, but they can continue to work on the alpha untill 2016, and the beta untill 2018. Technically they don't stop the progress but they don't speed it up either. As long as it is moving, even one update every 2 months, people will not be able to say anything. 

[lipemr 160]

Yes from a short term financial view, not pouring money into the game would protect profit. But how they handle this game now also speaks to the credibility of the company. Ultimatly its what they value most.....a quick cash grab now. Or to protect there integrity.

 

Choosing to back his game properly will build there reputation. That reputation will decide the minds of many customers in the future. A company with a good reputation is much more likely to survive, BI will already be thinking to the future beyond dayz, and the implications there conduct with dayz will have on that futre  :)

 

i'm sure dayz was the jackpot for BIS, they wont ever do a game sell like it again, not they have resources to compete with the AAA game industry.

 

I dont see why they would invest in dayz just to boost their company credibility only to go bankrupt/get back to the pre-dayz state 4 years later.

 

It's down to waiting, after all, let's place our bets and not be dicks nor ignorants to the facts like some people here on the forums are.

[akafugitive 244]

i'm sure dayz was the jackpot for BIS, they wont ever do a game sell like it again, not they have resources to compete with the AAA game industry.

I dont see why they would invest in dayz just to boost their company credibility only to go bankrupt/get back to the pre-dayz state 4 years later.

It's down to waiting, after all, let's place our bets and not be dicks nor ignorants to the facts like some people here on the forums are.

Operation flash point, Arma 2 and 3 have also been very successful games for them because they cater to an audience AAA companies don't cater to. The market BIS builds games for is not an overly saturated market and why they have a strong following.

If they start catering to casual players that think they know it all, they will in fact be kicking out their core fan base and become another mainstream company that follows the same design flaw as the rest, no longer being unique.

Edited April 22, 2014 by akafugitive

[Gekkonidae 270]

I see it getting made easier from the cry babies over time. Especially with loot respawn and hunting. Survival is going to become easier. Zombies need to be made harder than the player threat imo

 

Can't help but agree. I think they should speed them up even more and make them right on your ass in droves once things like respawning and persistent objects make it in. They'll have to wait for the AI pathing to fine tune it, but I would think they can still tweak some things in the meantime, if that needed to happen.

 

I ultimately want brutally hard zeds wrecking people who aren't careful. :)

[Thadius (DayZ) 40]

Point out my strawmen please and the rest of my post was making a point. You can highlight a million reasons why development might be slow to you, and they can all still be wrong. It still isn't understanding the alpha process or what issues and obstacles the dev team have in coding the game. Until you are privy to that information why do we have to put up with whiners demanding the game gets made quicker when they have no understanding of what is going on. 

 

People are making out that BIS are making a cash grab, my post went someway to try and explain why I think that isn't the case by providing information some information that has already been posted.

 

Naming one? How about three? In all three instances you use insults, you are implying that any "smart" person or "real" gamer would have the same opinion you have. All the while not presenting any solid arguments and trying to pass of your statements as "facts".

 

Actually, most of your rebuttal is exactly the same as mine. Opinion and speculation.

 

At least I had the courtesy to present it as such, and as an added bonus, I did not belittle and insult people in the process.

Edited April 22, 2014 by Thadius