The Official Unofficial Bandit Removal Petition

[oilman 72]

@Nitrous: Don't be fearful of casuals, Rocket has made his intentions clear. He's not ever going to be catering to them. That does not, however, mean it is alright to dismiss every opinion you see as being not 'hardcore' enough. If I had my way, the first change I'd make to Arma II would be a truly realistic aeroplane and helicopter simulation, but I accept that some degree of realism needs to be sacrificed for the overall experience.

TL;DR: Arguing is fine, dismissing / name-calling is not. If someone makes a post that is clearly made just to rile you up, don't fall for it, just report it. (That being said, don't report someone if they just insult you a little. :p)

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

@Nitrous: Don't be fearful of casuals' date=' Rocket has made his intentions clear. He's not ever going to be catering to them. That does not, however, mean it is alright to dismiss every opinion you see as being not 'hardcore' enough. If I had my way, the first change I'd make to Arma II would be a truly realistic aeroplane and helicopter simulation, but I accept that some degree of realism needs to be sacrificed for the overall experience.

TL;DR: Arguing is fine, dismissing / name-calling is not. If someone makes a post that is clearly made just to rile you up, don't fall for it, just report it. (That being said, don't report someone if they just insult you a little. :p)

[/quote']

I'm not adverse to alternate ideas per say. Its the people who more or less keep saying "But we need that neon sign over your head because then I know I have to avoid you", theyre the ones who want everything simplified and made easy for them. There is a myriad of ways to help you determine someones moral orientation, but these methods are obviously too complicated for some people to work out .

Part of the attraction of this game is the risk/reward factor. Like TKJ mentioned, its similar in EVE. You can spend days ratting in nullsec to buy yourself a new toy and its blow to pieces an hour after you buy it. That makes a tense and immersive experience, the bandit skin removes a large chunk of that immersion. Its just making things easy for the 'Casuals' you mention.

People trying to come up with new suggestions are just trying to be helpful, thats cool, so no probs here.

[That Lamer 0]

TL;DR:

"TL;DR";DR.

[Gutterboy44 0]

I think humanity should remain in the game and like every other aspect it is a work in progress. I believe there is a lot of potential of how humanity could manifest itself in game beyond the current skin change system. After all, the very concept of humanity in a zombie apocalypse is a "resource". How do we define ourselves as humans in such a grim situation? To go around murdering people you know as "innocent" with zero consequence is the antithesis of realism.

Let's not forget this is a simulation, a very good one, but not reality. When you fire a gun in game, your hand doesn't shake on the mouse, your ears don't ring. The game animates recoil and plays a sound through your speakers to best approximate the experience of shooting a real gun. So by participating in any game with guns, no matter how realistic, you are conceding that you are willing to accept an approximation and not actual reality.

With all simulations the game is doing it's best to represent real life phenomena. That said, when it comes to killing people, If you ran around murdering innocent humans in a zed world, you can be assured your psyche would be greatly altered as well as the way others perceive you. Conveying this in game with a skin change is certainly not the ultimate representation of the complexities of humanity, but it acknowledges it exists.

I think this is an important game mechanic, if not the most important game mechanic in Day Z. It deserves the same attention and development as all the other game mechanics and would be a terrible disservice to remove it because a few hyperbolic shouts of anti-realism or that those intrigued by the system are inherently cowards.

As a theoretical zed apocalypse persists, humanity will be the most precious and rare resource of all. Imagine Day Z down the road, maybe we will all have bandit skins because the world is so cruel and unforgiving, no matter your moral intentions when you first started playing. A bandit skin could come to represent how long you have lived.

"I remember when I was innocent like you, wet behind the ears. Pious, on a soap box murmuring about humanity and what it means to be good. But you'll change. You'll change or you'll die. Welcome to Chernaus"

[BlackAlpha 12]

The bandit system isn't perfect, it has faults. But it does allow us to see who we need to be extra careful with. I think we need something like that in a game where you can kill without any serious penalty. At least the bandit skin is some sort of penalty. If you want to keep this mod realistic, there has to be some kind of repercussion for banditry. Removing the bandit system altogether, without putting an alternative in place, will simply make the mod worse because it will give free reign to bandits. And then Chernarus will turn into a warzone, with zombies thrown into the mix just for the hell of it. Then we might as well go back to regular ArmA.

So I think you shouldn't remove the bandit system without coming up with an alternative. We need SOMETHING to keep the bandits in line, so that they don't screw up what this mod is all about.

[Gutterboy44 0]

@Sgt_Rock - I like some of your ideas. Establishing a "trust" would be very cool and could be represented by something like revealing player names, as you said, after establishing that trust. Perhaps exchanging salutes would establish trust. Moreover, killing someone you have established trust with would subtract a lot more humanity than killing strangers. If a stranger, even in survivor skin, doesn't want to establish trust it would be a sign they are more likely to kill you or simply don't want to sacrifice a bunch of humanity if they end up killing you in a separate encounter. This would mimic the idea that killing a stranger is less consequential to your humanity than killing someone you know.

Additionally, I think that a group of positive humanity players who have established trust and stay in proximity should gain humanity and even be able to "convert" a player with low humanity if they stick with them. It is easy to go the way of a bandit, simply tag along with others and murder survivors, but some sort of redemption in the other direction would be great. If a group of "good" people accepted you and established trust, it would restore some of your humanity.

[Goose Springsteen 9]

The bandit system isn't perfect' date=' it has faults. But it does allow us to see who we need to be extra careful with. I think we need something like that in a game where you can kill without any serious penalty. At least the bandit skin is some sort of penalty. If you want to keep this mod realistic, there has to be some kind of repercussion for banditry. Removing the bandit system altogether, without putting an alternative in place, will simply make the mod worse because it will give free reign to bandits. And then Chernarus will turn into a warzone, with zombies thrown into the mix just for the hell of it. Then we might as well go back to regular ArmA.

So I think you shouldn't remove the bandit system without coming up with an alternative. We need SOMETHING to keep the bandits in line, so that they don't screw up what this mod is all about.

[/quote']

The repercussions for being a mass murdering bandit who spares no one are already self evident.

I am a bandit and I have been known to take down a player or two for the sake of convenience along with many more preemptively for my own security.

You might think that amoral but it doesn't mean that I've not assisted new players in chat and actively healed people I could have shot and looted.

The bandit system puts you as the player on the backfoot and makes every encounter with other players a situation where you aren't likely to be judged on the basis of your actions but you are rather judged on your appearance and as it has already been said plenty of bandits became such after defending themselves.

I would also argue the current system is fundamentally broken because being a bandit doesn't dissuade you from killing more people it forces your hand and steals much of your agency. As I said above a few I've killed for the sake of ease of acquiring stuff but the majority of people that I've killed because better they die at my hand than I die because they see the bandit skin and panic.

[BlackAlpha 12]

The repercussions for being a mass murdering bandit who spares no one are already self evident.

I am a bandit and I have been known to take down a player or two for the sake of convenience along with many more preemptively for my own security.

You might think that amoral but it doesn't mean that I've not assisted new players in chat and actively healed people I could have shot and looted.

The bandit system puts you as the player on the backfoot and makes every encounter with other players a situation where you aren't likely on the basis of your actions but you are rather judged on your appearance and as it has already been said plenty of bandits became such after defending themselves.

I would also argue the current system is fundamentally broken because being a bandit doesn't dissuade you from killing more people it forces your hand and steals much of your agency. As I said above a few I've killed for the sake of ease of acquiring stuff but the majority of people that I've killed because better they die at my hand than I die because they see the bandit skin and panic.

I get your point. But the reason why you call it broken is the reason I say the bandit system should stay until something better comes along. I say the bandit system is half working.

I kill bandits very often because the worst bandits are wearing the bandit skin. And if you check the stats, most people are not wearing the bandit skin. These two things are facts. So what this means is that when you see a lone guy wearing a bandit skin, there's a high chance he's an actual bandit, who's after your beans.

Knowing that, I can treat people with the regular skin normally. Normally, as in not shooting them on sight. This is because the risk of running into a bandit, who's wearing a regular skin, is much, MUCH smaller.

Now, I know this isn't perfect. But it's better to shoot all bandits on sight than being forced to shoot ALL players on sight due to high risk of getting murdered at any point you meet another player.

So, like I said before, I think you need to come up with an alternative before getting rid of the current bandit system.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

The repercussions for being a mass murdering bandit who spares no one are already self evident.

Loot. 'Yay!' Such a terrible terrible repercussion. (not)

I am a bandit and I have been known to take down a player or two for the sake of convenience along with many more preemptively for my own security.

Then in fact you are a bandit-murderer. Put it this way' date=' the bandit system is telling us, the people who will not kill another human without exploring other options, that we can't trust you because you are a dick who likes confrontation.

It helps us by warning us about your past actions.

You might think that amoral but it doesn't mean that I've not assisted new players in chat and actively healed people I could have shot and looted.

Oh helping people in chat... so selfless!

The bandit system puts you as the player on the backfoot and makes every encounter with other players a situation where you aren't likely (judged) on the basis of your actions but you are rather judged on your appearance and as it has already been said plenty of bandits became such after defending themselves.

I implanted a (judged) in there to make it make more sense, correct me if I was wrong.

Let me say something, to everyone as well, the bandit system puts you on the back foot because of your past actions! Why do you think you can murder five people and then want to be accepted in my group of survivors whom have only helped others and avoided conflict when possible??

You want it both ways. You want to be able to kill people when it conviences you... but you don't want to be judged by others when it inconviences you. Heres the deal... you are being judged by your actions in the past not the actions in the potential future. Suck it up. Your a grown man with a big gun, go kill more people and make it alllll better.

I would also argue the current system is fundamentally broken because being a bandit doesn't dissuade you from killing more people it forces your hand and steals much of your agency.

Because you've already killed people! Its making you play the role you decided. Its the mark of Cain! You are not forgiven just because the other guy can't tell his story.

As I said above a few I've killed for the sake of ease of acquiring stuff but the majority of people that I've killed because better they die at my hand than I die because they see the bandit skin and panic.

Then you are encapsulating the cycle of violence you only started yourself.

You say: "Oh look that guy has a good weapon I want it."

*shoots*

Then when another guy looks at you and sees that you have been known to cold blooded kill a guy for his loot and pops you you cry "UNFAIR!!!!".

I laugh at how weak you really are. You really encapsulate the bandit mentality.

[Zero477 5]

Whilst realistic for the individual a complete removal of humanity without giving thoughtless murder a consequence is bad for the game. It's bad for balance. If you look at the larger picture no humanity is actually bad for realism because it undermines cooperation completely. No humanity DayZ only worked because its playerbase was already deep into the simulation genre and the community was small enough. That doesn't change how the simple fact of being able to kill without consequence by betraying trust in a game like this is not a good game design pattern (anti fun), it only works if a large majority of the players is in the simulation mindset of playing.

The simulation actually becomes more accurate if you give an anti fun deed a fitting consequence. The severity of taking a real life through means of betrayal can not be simulated, so instead of trying that a better approach would be to make it less feasible for players to betray people.

What I like about the humanity system is how it gave the game a fair system of PvP. PvP in itself is a fun game mechanic that makes the game more interesting for every party involved. The problem with it is that it's too much of a black and white solution, a system was created that perpetuates a single choice by making it always in the players best interest to kill the other "faction". Another problem is that the system prevents bandits from playing cooperatively without a group.

Remove humanity and it will be like everyone has a bandit skin on. There's too much people who aren't in the "simulation mindset" and make choices with short terms gameplay benefit (loot, thrill of the kill, survival) as a first priority and realistic simulation as a second. The balance of trust spirals out of control quickly. After how many times of getting your trust betrayed will you start shooting everyone on sight? The people who like playing DayZ more as a simulation than a game end up paying for it because the way they play offers low chance of survival, unless they're playing CoD with zombies simulator.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

The bandit system isn't perfect' date=' it has faults. But it does allow us to see who we need to be extra careful with. I think we need something like that in a game where you can kill without any serious penalty. At least the bandit skin is some sort of penalty. If you want to keep this mod realistic, there has to be some kind of repercussion for banditry. Removing the bandit system altogether, without putting an alternative in place, will simply make the mod worse because it will give free reign to bandits. And then Chernarus will turn into a warzone, with zombies thrown into the mix just for the hell of it. Then we might as well go back to regular ArmA.

So I think you shouldn't remove the bandit system without coming up with an alternative. We need SOMETHING to keep the bandits in line, so that they don't screw up what this mod is all about.

[/quote']

Explain to me why there has to be repercussions for banditry? It is a lawless state, there are no authorities.

The minute your mother-in-law starts trying to eat your face off, is the moment when all moral and ethical standards go out of the window. Its a fight for survival:

Guy A is starving and asks guy B to kindly give him one of his two cans of beans. Guy B refuses to give guy A any beans so guy A will probably die of hunger.

Guy A then decides the only way to survive is to kill guy B and take the beans himself. He waits until guy B is asleep then slits his throat, taking the beans as he leaves. He finds somewhere safe to eat then consumes them. He did what he needed to survive, no one saw a thing and his conscience is clear because guy B was a selfish bastard who was prepared to let him die.

This kind of scenario can crop up in Day-Z from time to time and the guy who chose life over starvation doesnt deserve to have everyone shooting at him the second he pokes his arse out of a bush.

[Goose Springsteen 9]

The repercussions for being a mass murdering bandit who spares no one are already self evident.

Loot. 'Yay!' Such a terrible terrible repercussion. (not)

I am a bandit and I have been known to take down a player or two for the sake of convenience along with many more preemptively for my own security.

Then in fact you are a bandit-murderer. Put it this way' date=' the bandit system is telling us, the people who will not kill another human without exploring other options, that we can't trust you because you are a dick who likes confrontation.

It helps us by warning us about your past actions.

You might think that amoral but it doesn't mean that I've not assisted new players in chat and actively healed people I could have shot and looted.

Oh helping people in chat... so selfless!

The bandit system puts you as the player on the backfoot and makes every encounter with other players a situation where you aren't likely (judged) on the basis of your actions but you are rather judged on your appearance and as it has already been said plenty of bandits became such after defending themselves.

I implanted a (judged) in there to make it make more sense, correct me if I was wrong.

Let me say something, to everyone as well, the bandit system puts you on the back foot because of your past actions! Why do you think you can murder five people and then want to be accepted in my group of survivors whom have only helped others and avoided conflict when possible??

You want it both ways. You want to be able to kill people when it conviences you... but you don't want to be judged by others when it inconviences you. Heres the deal... you are being judged by your actions in the past not the actions in the potential future. Suck it up. Your a grown man with a big gun, go kill more people and make it alllll better.

I would also argue the current system is fundamentally broken because being a bandit doesn't dissuade you from killing more people it forces your hand and steals much of your agency.

Because you've already killed people! Its making you play the role you decided. Its the mark of Cain! You are not forgiven just because the other guy can't tell his story.

As I said above a few I've killed for the sake of ease of acquiring stuff but the majority of people that I've killed because better they die at my hand than I die because they see the bandit skin and panic.

Then you are encapsulating the cycle of violence you only started yourself.

You say: "Oh look that guy has a good weapon I want it."

*shoots*

Then when another guy looks at you and sees that you have been known to cold blooded kill a guy for his loot and pops you you cry "UNFAIR!!!!".

I laugh at how weak you really are. You really encapsulate the bandit mentality.

Whilst I appreciate your response I don't appreciate your condescending tone throughout said response. Attacking people adds no credence to your argument but rather discredits the legitimate points which are lost in the tepid vitriol.

Please read through what I have written, never once did I claim the current morality system was unfair. I have however justifiably I think said it is gamey in the extreme. I don't have a problem with unfair, the world of DayZ is harsh and unfair and I love it for it.

However there are things that are unfair which also detract from the game and it's "mission statement". Examples of unfair things that detract from the game are quite easily found in the limitations of the engine like the zombies who can hit through walls and predatory ladders that have probably claimed more lives than anything else in ARMA.

The bandit system as it stands is something which I think detracts from the game because it cheapens interactions

You said that it's the mark of cain and mythology aside you do make a mistake here because following up you say "(y)ou are not forgiven just because the other guy can't tell his story" the fact is that the other guy can tell his story because death is not persistant in this game and he can be back on the beach within a minute of me killing him. Let the consequence of unabated banditry be a terrible reputation amongst other players and not a skin that helps no one.

[BlackAlpha 12]

The bandit system isn't perfect' date=' it has faults. But it does allow us to see who we need to be extra careful with. I think we need something like that in a game where you can kill without any serious penalty. At least the bandit skin is some sort of penalty. If you want to keep this mod realistic, there has to be some kind of repercussion for banditry. Removing the bandit system altogether, without putting an alternative in place, will simply make the mod worse because it will give free reign to bandits. And then Chernarus will turn into a warzone, with zombies thrown into the mix just for the hell of it. Then we might as well go back to regular ArmA.

So I think you shouldn't remove the bandit system without coming up with an alternative. We need SOMETHING to keep the bandits in line, so that they don't screw up what this mod is all about.

[/quote']

Explain to me why there has to be repercussions for banditry? It is a lawless state, there are no authorities.

The minute your mother-in-law starts trying to eat your face off, is the moment when all moral and ethical standards go out of the window. Its a fight for survival:

Guy A is starving and asks guy B to kindly give him one of his two cans of beans. Guy B refuses to give guy A any beans so guy A will probably die of hunger.

Guy A then decides the only way to survive is to kill guy B and take the beans himself. He waits until guy B is asleep then slits his throat, taking the beans as he leaves. He finds somewhere safe to eat then consumes them. He did what he needed to survive, no one saw a thing and his conscience is clear because guy B was a selfish bastard who was prepared to let him die.

This kind of scenario can crop up in Day-Z from time to time and the guy who chose life over starvation doesnt deserve to have everyone shooting at him the second he pokes his arse out of a bush.

I don't think you got my point. I think that if you remove the bandit system without putting anything else in its place, the game will turn into a full out deathmatch.

See above for my reply to Goose:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2089&pid=21906#pid21906

And see this reply by Zero477:

http://dayzmod.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=2089&pid=21936#pid21936

[metal_izanagi 3]

The repercussions for being a mass murdering bandit who spares no one are already self evident.

Loot. 'Yay!' Such a terrible terrible repercussion. (not)

I am a bandit and I have been known to take down a player or two for the sake of convenience along with many more preemptively for my own security.

Then in fact you are a bandit-murderer. Put it this way' date=' the bandit system is telling us, the people who will not kill another human without exploring other options, that we can't trust you because you are a dick who likes confrontation.

It helps us by warning us about your past actions.

You might think that amoral but it doesn't mean that I've not assisted new players in chat and actively healed people I could have shot and looted.

Oh helping people in chat... so selfless!

The bandit system puts you as the player on the backfoot and makes every encounter with other players a situation where you aren't likely (judged) on the basis of your actions but you are rather judged on your appearance and as it has already been said plenty of bandits became such after defending themselves.

I implanted a (judged) in there to make it make more sense, correct me if I was wrong.

Let me say something, to everyone as well, the bandit system puts you on the back foot because of your past actions! Why do you think you can murder five people and then want to be accepted in my group of survivors whom have only helped others and avoided conflict when possible??

You want it both ways. You want to be able to kill people when it conviences you... but you don't want to be judged by others when it inconviences you. Heres the deal... you are being judged by your actions in the past not the actions in the potential future. Suck it up. Your a grown man with a big gun, go kill more people and make it alllll better.

I would also argue the current system is fundamentally broken because being a bandit doesn't dissuade you from killing more people it forces your hand and steals much of your agency.

Because you've already killed people! Its making you play the role you decided. Its the mark of Cain! You are not forgiven just because the other guy can't tell his story.

As I said above a few I've killed for the sake of ease of acquiring stuff but the majority of people that I've killed because better they die at my hand than I die because they see the bandit skin and panic.

Then you are encapsulating the cycle of violence you only started yourself.

You say: "Oh look that guy has a good weapon I want it."

*shoots*

Then when another guy looks at you and sees that you have been known to cold blooded kill a guy for his loot and pops you you cry "UNFAIR!!!!".

I laugh at how weak you really are. You really encapsulate the bandit mentality.

Thank you. Just...thank you for that post. It's exactly what I wanted to say, but worded in a much more polite manner than I could spare for bandits.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

You said that it's the mark of cain and mythology aside you do make a mistake here because following up you say "(y)ou are not forgiven just because the other guy can't tell his story" the fact is that the other guy can tell his story because death is not persistant in this game and he can be back on the beach within a minute of me killing him. Let the consequence of unabated banditry be a terrible reputation amongst other players and not a skin that helps no one.

I'll apologize for the condescending tone. Doesn't mean I'll respect you in game (here you seem just fine and rational... as far as us gamers can go).

Thing is, is that the largest reason to not murder everyone you see in real life, is the punishment of your own demise. As you've said death in this game is not permanent (but it certainly is painful for long lived survivors) and that hinders the real life 'punishment' for murder. Here, even if you are finally killed after murdering five people, you'll come back and be able to murder just as well.

Beyond that is the plain simple murder... the kind of murder where no one knows each other's name. How could I warn the rest of the survivors about player XYZ if I never knew player XYZ killed me?

Your suggestion that the skin helps no one is not true and has been a stance only assumed by bandits who are finding a hard time living their "hard knocks" life alone and paranoid. Every other good intentioned (or kiniving) soul has been greatful for the for warning granted by the bandit skin.

I'm a part of a large group of survivors, a few are bandits and are some pretty cold mothers, but I still trust them with my virtual life. The bandit skin only hurts the lone wolf murderer and rightfully so.

[masterjts 1]

I only want to see the humanity reset on death. Respawning as a bandit because you were forced to defend yourself against other civilians is not fair IMHO.

[Nitrous (DayZ) 0]

I'll apologize for the condescending tone. Doesn't mean I'll respect you in game (here you seem just fine and rational... as far as us gamers can go).

Thing is' date=' is that the largest reason to not murder everyone you see in real life, is the punishment of your own demise. As you've said death in this game is not permanent (but it certainly is painful for long lived survivors) and that hinders the real life 'punishment' for murder. Here, even if you are finally killed after murdering five people, you'll come back and be able to murder just as well.

Beyond that is the plain simple murder... the kind of murder where no one knows each other's name. How could I warn the rest of the survivors about player XYZ if I never knew player XYZ killed me?

Your suggestion that the skin helps no one is not true and has been a stance only assumed by bandits who are finding a hard time living their "hard knocks" life alone and paranoid. Every other good intentioned (or kiniving) soul has been greatful for the for warning granted by the bandit skin.

I'm a part of a large group of survivors, a few are bandits and are some pretty cold mothers, but I still trust them with my virtual life. The bandit skin only hurts the lone wolf murderer and rightfully so.

[/quote']

Murder is a crime in the eyes of the law. However, in Chernarus, there is no law. There are no authorities and there are no murders, there are only "Kills". The only difference between killing a boar and killing a survivor, is that the boar drops raw meat and the survivor drops weapons, ammo and other stuff. It's all about survival and doing whats needed to stay alive.

The bandit skin only succeeds in helping nubs decide if someone may potentially kill them or not. Its a massive exercise in hand holding for people who just want to run around sprinkling their cearbear dust over everyone.

I can imagine you stood in the middle of Cherno with a picket sign saying:

"Zombies are people too, and they have feelings, stop the needless killing now" :D

[oilman 72]

I'd like to point out that punishment is not the only reason people avoid crime, in real life or in DayZ. I help other Survivors because I feel that it's helping them enjoy the game, as well as giving Bandits a more challenging quarry.

Whatever the eventual state of the bandit system, there will always be nice guys. Of that I can promise you.

[ytman18@gmail.com 9]

Murder is a crime in the eyes of the law. However' date=' in Chernarus, there is no law. There are no authorities and there are no murders, there are only "Kills". The only difference between killing a boar and killing a survivor, is that the boar drops raw meat and the survivor drops weapons, ammo and other stuff. It's all about survival and doing whats needed to stay alive.

The bandit skin only succeeds in helping nubs decide if someone may potentially kill them or not. Its a massive exercise in hand holding for people who just want to run around sprinkling their cearbear dust over everyone.

I can imagine you stood in the middle of Cherno with a picket sign saying:

"Zombies are people too, and they have feelings, stop the needless killing now" :D

[/quote']

Again, the bandit skin and term suits you well! Everyone in real life looks different right? Has different clothes a different voice, even walks different and has a different height. Here we all look the bloody same and a group of survivors can't say "Keep an eye out for Mean Joe Green" because 'Mean Joe Green' could be anyone!

Its reasonable that bandits, the people who think their is no law in this land, are going to hide their identity. You say their is no law, but my community has law and order and we are thriving more than any solitary bandit ever could.

The game is billed as a social survival mod. Society creates laws regardless of police or 'the man' enforcing them. you want the bandit skin removed because you want to be able to drop anyone you see with out them nessicarily knowing they need to drop you first.

The people who want to remove the bandit skin are in fact pvp pussies who want to exploit the fact that they never die, look the same as everyone else, and have all the good loot from all the people they killed.

In a way view the bandit skin as skin of a person who is removed from any large group of survivors (more often the case) and who must steal from others to survive. Its very fitting and suits you all very well while keeping this game in check.

You all are viewing it from the narrow vision of your tried and true methods of survival without giving thought to the other viable thoughts of survival. You see a person as a loot drop, I see them as a potential threat/help.

I'll hold up people at gun point, I'll shot near them to get them to move on... but I wont kill them and lose my humanity unless they are aiming at me. A human life, in this game another player's time and effort, is not worth the few beans/clips he has on hand.

I'm a fan of EvE and I love the PvP in both games, and certainly I won't hesitate to drop anyone who I deem an immediate threat. However, the removal of banditry would degrade this into a PvP deathmatch at the coast line.

[oilman 72]

Please, for the love of God, stop using the word Carebear.

I'm not going to ban someone for doing it, but fuck, it doesn't make anyone reading your post go, 'Ha, boy, he sure showed him! Nice one!'. It just makes them go 'For fucks sake, not again.'

If you HAVE to use it, just do what Rocket did in some recent patch notes. Call them a pussy. :p

[GedenWhitey 0]

Okay haven't read every post but some of them and wanted to give my opinion as well.

In the games current state I would hate if bandits didn't have bandit skins. Why? because it's hard enough to tell people apart, especially if you don't talk over skype/team speak etc. or grouped with randoms. A party of four could be joined by a fifth without people noticing because we all look the same... And then bang... which one is enemy? who isn't... Would break almost any chance for building a random group...

- Whitey

[Kolchak (DayZ) 5]

I prefer to see the bandit skin as a mark of the player's true personality. It shows that no matter how much they pretend to cooperate and respect people, given the chance, they have already betrayed and killed others, and obviously will do it again.

[Zero477 5]

I prefer to see the bandit skin as a mark of the player's true personality. It shows that no matter how much they pretend to cooperate and respect people' date=' given the chance, they have already betrayed and killed others, and obviously will do it again.

[/quote']

I think it's important to recognise that bandits are good for gameplay. The pvp aspect they offer once they have their skin goes both ways, you're not at any disadvantage in pvp, you just have to be aware and practise the same stealth they do. It doesn't make sense from a balance perspective to keep punishing bandits for killing when once they have the bandit skin the kills they make are actually putting more tension in the game thus making it a better experience for everyone.

[aidanweld@gmail.com 6]

I won't elaborate as it is self explanatory that during a zombie apocalypse, there would be people out to kill others for supplies.

Keeping Bandits is very realistic.

[Bower 4]

Bandit skin is too gamey. If I went outside and killed some stranger for his beans I don't instantly change appearance.