FoV abuse, scatter when snapshoting, on-screen dot and zoom issues

[Zer0HD2 (DayZ) 40]

Ok, now i got trapped in definitions. As i told, english is not my native and this theme is new to me to speak on it. My apologies for misrepresentation.

 

If scattering is just weapon characteristic, and accuracy is how accurate shooter is, then, of course, i've meant less accuracy when not looking though the sights. But when we talk about game this two definitions overlaps each other. Less accuracy leads to bigger scattering of your hits. You cannot actually aim with your weapon without looking though sigth. I don't know for sure how accuracy interrelated with scattering in game and how it all realised. As i think it is some kind of "cone of fire" mechanics that simulates both scatter of weapon and accuracy of shooter at the same time. If i am not right, please correct me.

 

The issue with spread right now is that even with perfect aim (sight directly on target), you can still miss your target due to the random spread. This is (I think) meant to simulate an untrained civilian firing a weapon, which could be done much better by adding more sway when aiming, or more recoil.

[oregonized 673]

Why ruin the experience for lots of people just because you don't like something? 

 

Wait until there are private servers and you can enforce any rules you want.

[minime1000 78]

FoV slider shouldn't be removed. Different people like different fov because preference, monitor setup, etc. Juts make it so you have to restart the game or quit the server to change it.

Do not really care about the crosshair. I am sure anyone who has experience in FPSs can instinctively tell where the center is.

[casper1 44]

Crossair in game is not accurately centered anyway, hence explains why people miss like hell lol.  If you are using that dot to shoot then Oh boi!

 

They just need to adjust ADS Scope ZOOM  and disable character 1st/3rd person Zoom thats all.No point to have a zoom if you don't use your gun anyway, not even realistic at all from a mil-sim Dev like BI.

 

We don't need zoom , just sort out the focus on ADS and zoom on scopes and leave the FOV alone. Did i say "Disable the General ZOOM for 1st/3rd person view" as it's not realistic , don't know humans got Xscope inserted in their eyes like OMEGAs.  This ain't Universal Soldier and we are not Van Damme, or this ain't Terminator and we are not Arnold.

Edited March 11, 2014 by =1PARA=Prime=C.O=

[minime1000 78]

Did i say "Disable the General ZOOM for 1st/3rd person view" as it's not realistic , don't know humans got Xscope inserted in their eyes like OMEGAs.  This ain't Universal Soldier and we are not Van Damme, or this ain't Terminator and we are not Arnold.

My eyes do not see in low resolution pixels in real life.

[FrostDragon 4]

The simple fix to the FOV problem is to fix the zoom so it is the same for all weapons / zoom. Then players can easily go with their preference.

 

I did not suggest just to remove FOV from in-game menu. I understand that in present condition of zoom effect for weapons it will make shooting pain. This problem is complex, devs need to fix zoom for weapons and then remove FOV slider. Actually not the zoom itself should be fixed, but the position of your weapon when you use iron sight. Weapon should appear bigger, so you can realistically look througt the sights without need to use FOV.

 

Why ruin the experience for lots of people just because you don't like something? 

 

Wait until there are private servers and you can enforce any rules you want.

 

Some people use wall exploit. Why ruin their expierience just because others don't like it?

I use FOV actively in game, but i am sure this is not the way how it all should be done.

 

FoV slider shouldn't be removed. Different people like different fov because preference, monitor setup, etc. Juts make it so you have to restart the game or quit the server to change it.

 

Exactly! This will stop people from abusing it. I doubt you change your monitor or its resolution every day, so you will need to change your FOV just once and only if you don't like default one.

 

We don't need zoom , just sort out the focus on ADS and zoom on scopes and leave the FOV alone. Did i say "Disable the General ZOOM for 1st/3rd person view" as it's not realistic , don't know humans got Xscope inserted in their eyes like OMEGAs.  This ain't Universal Soldier and we are not Van Damme, or this ain't Terminator and we are not Arnold.

 

Do you hear yourself? You tell me that zoom is not realistic because you can't zoom IRL. And you tell me leave FOV slider because what? Can you change your FOV IRL? Why FOV option seems realistic to you?

 

I am tired of repeating same thing about zoom, but i'll try to explain why we have zoom one more time.

 

IRL you have about 170-180 degrees field of view. But we play computer game witch shows gameworld through monitor. And monitor can not properly show 180 degrees FOV, thats why it is limited to 90 or about that degrees. Try to limit your IRL FOV to 90 degrees! On the picture below it is shown as red line. With other words, red line - part of gameworld that you see through you monitor from the first person. It is not zoomed in or zoomed out it is 1:1. It is just limited to 90 degrees. But you can't play under such conditions comfortable, you have to look around 3 times to cover your normal IRL FOV. Here comes zoomed-out vision, which presented in game as your normal vision. Also due to monitor limitation to show only 90 degree FOV, you see it as camera pulled backward and image zoomed out. It is your normal IRL first person FOV.

 

As example - notice last objects to the left and right you can see IRL with you peripheral vision. Then without moving, try to catch them on camera. You can't. You can see only some part of space between that two objects. I think, even with wide-angle lens. (You stand in position 1 and see through camera part of your FOV that llimited by RED LINE). Then step some steps behind until you can see both objects through you camera. You now stay in position 2 as it shown on picture below and can see all 100% of your normal IRL FOV through camera. Thats exactly the same what game does.

 

You could play just with picture that you see from position two, but due to small monitor resolution, you will not be able to see small objects, which you can easily identify when you look at them IRL from position 1. One of the solutions is to have three monitors, so the picture is stretched between them. In such conditions zoom would be unrealistic, because your three monitors would show 180 degrees of your FOV in 1:1 scale. But most of people don't have three monitors. And if you watch 100% of FOV through one monitor it is shown in downscale 1:3. When you zoomed-in you see 1:1. When you zoomed out - you see 1:3. Thats why we have zoom, and thats why it is totally realistic.

 

Hopefully you can understand my english...  :huh:

 

On the other hand, when you zoomed in with your RMB, and when you look though sigths it is the same. This is your normal 1:1 part of game world. The only problem is that different weapons have different scale. Most of them looks too small. That's why a lot of people use FOV to compensate it. Actually to be able to see anything through sights. While look of weapons not fixed, i agree that in-game FOV option is necessary evil, but once weapons view is fixed it should be disabled, because it gives unfair advantages which i've described in my first post.

 

 

Crossair in game is not accurately centered anyway, hence explains why people miss like hell lol.  If you are using that dot to shoot then Oh boi!

 

Yes, that's true. Was reposting that part of text from other person. Think he was mistaken. Just checked it in-game - different weapons has different positions relative to the dot. But while this position is fixed, players will fastly get used to it. Probably it makes scatter problem less critical but it for sure need some polish.

 

While you can't be accurate when shooting at dot position at big distances, other problems still presents. FOV abuse multiplies magnification of any optics you look through. You even do not need optics to look around at far distances when you perform the role of scout.

Edited March 13, 2014 by FrostDragon

[KarmaCoin 72]

Personally I think the RMB zoom should be removed entirely. You should only be able to zoom when looking through an adjustable optic like binoculars or LRS.

 

Firing without using the iron sights absolutely needs to be less accurate. If they add that then I don't think the center dot needs to be removed. The center dot is very helpful for picking up hard to reach items and when shooting is IMO a realistic way of giving us hand eye coordination.

 

As for FoV, I don't think it should be an adjustable option in game or in the config. It should be calculated based off the resolution of the game window. They probably won't go that route though so removing the ability to adjust it while playing is good enough.

[Zer0HD2 (DayZ) 40]

As for FoV, I don't think it should be an adjustable option in game or in the config. It should be calculated based off the resolution of the game window. They probably won't go that route though so removing the ability to adjust it while playing is good enough.

 

Again, as multiple people have said above, FoV depends on too many variables to be calculated by the game. Resolution, monitor setup (multiple monitors, etc), distance from monitor, and most importantly, personal preference. The game can only calculate it based on resolution, so for most people it will get it wrong. I personally play on a higher FoV than a lot of people, because I prefer the extra peripheral vision, while other people prefer a lower FoV. I do agree that being able to change it in a few seconds in-game needs to be changed, but we do need an option to change it. The config file method is perfect. Nobody's honestly going to exit the game, go into their config file, change the FoV, boot the game back up (experiencing that wonderful DayZ boot time), and log back into the server, just to get a little extra zoom.

[TheCourierVX 40]

I just want to get rid of the crossair its really anoying...

[nexventor 429]

1. In-game FOV option have to be disabled.

 

OP, while I somewhat understand your frustration, I do have a concern with your method of fixing it. I have to have my FOV set quite far out, over half way in fact and I have to because I get chronic motion sickness, if it is set any lower. Now a person who can handle a much narrow FOV is going to have a huge advantage over me especially if he can have at the narrowest setting. You say that someone who has set to this lowest level has the disadvantage of peripheral vision but this easily compensated with a track IR or well setup mice (eg Numpad 1 and 3 set to mouse buttons).

 

So in summary, come up with a better way to fix the problem and I will agree until then I can't. Also I think 3PP peaking (or the fact that there is even a 3PP is more of an issue than this). You leave yourself very vulnerable when changing your FOV.

 

Final thought: How does this even really effect you? I mean in my 6-700 hours of game play I have never thought once, "OH FFS, I wouldn't have died if it wasn't for his FOV changing". Out of all the things to gripe about in DayZ, I do find it interesting you picked on this one.

 

Your other two points while valid have been discussed to death so I will refrain from repeating myself and others again.

 

GL and see you at the VMC!

Edited January 7, 2015 by NexVentor

[Unforeseen 24]

Fix the insanely broken hit box for melee and THEN remove the hardcore dot. Not before.

[gibonez 3633]

So silly the dot is still in the game.

[lauri7x3 100]

to the fov debate.. not everyone is playing on 1980x1080... i for my self got a resolution of 5760x1080.. so i screw fov

[Evil Minion 943]

While I agree that something should be done in the certain aspects I had to vote "disagree" on every single point. Sure the suggestions address existing issues and seem okay at first glance but if you look closer they are actually pretty bad in the presented form (which doesn't mean the core ideas couldn't be used).

1. In-game FOV option have to be disabled.

This is a bad idea as the supposed use is having the option to adjust your field of view to the hardware you are using. Now forcing everyone with different hardware than default to edit configs is pretty stupid. I can agree with only allowing FoV changes when not connected to a server but even here the option lacks direct feedback making it a unnecessary pain in the ass to find the right one.

The actual issue with quick FoV changing is it affecting camera zoom - why not directly fix the issue?

 

2. Aiming without iron sight should have increased scatter.

Just as it doesn't make sense that adding a scope does change weapon dispersion it also doesn't make sense to change dispersion according to how a weapon is held. No, thats not a good idea. However, it should be harder to aim when not using the sights. One aspect already ingame is not being able to see much of the weapon sway which does decrease accuracy. Another one would be forcing a certain minimum amount of free aim on players (so you don't always aim at the center of your screen) while also keeping the dot in the center of your screen.

 

3. Remove on-screen dot from hardcore.

There is no "hardcore" mode so this point doesn't really make any sense. The dot does assist in multiple actions that are not aiming and that would be a pain in the ass to do without. Sure you could increase the action radius but this would only cause the game to be less precise. Also people could just make their own dot in the center of their screen instead.

So instead of completely removing the dot it might be a good idea to always have it in the center of the screen and connecting most actions like picking up items and interacting with the environment to it. If also a certain amount of free aim is forced upon players the dot would not be a 100% accurate crosshair while retaining its ability to assist with other actions (which is actually more realistic than not having it).

Edited January 7, 2015 by Evil Minion

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Well quick FoV from 60 to 120 isn't a bad thing. But currently you can go to like FoV 5 which should be eliminated. FoV shouldn't change so radically or at all the aimed/zoomed view.

 

Oh and I want at least an option to toggle the dot off. Only thing it does is confure me because I think it's another player/zombie or a star.

Edited January 7, 2015 by St. Jimmy

[hekp 223]

I play on 15'' monitor atm whilst my buddy gets the luxury of 26''. The difference is not even funny. I obviously play with FoV allot since i see on my friends monitor at just how much disadvantage i am if i dont do it. the far zoom out and far zoom in is a bit extreeme tho.Abuse would be a harsh word. Cant afford a bigger monitor would be more suitable lol

 

Dont waste time removing the dot in the middle unless you want it gone for purely cosmetic purposes.It doesnt really serve well anyway and whoever will want the dot back will get it back by a simple shader.

 

Everytime i read increase scatter/dispersion i think of wot 25% +/- RNG. No thanks.I rather get shot in the head 10 out of 10 times than to have my character played by dice rolls.Im perfectly fine missing after long run, but not randomly because "RNG" helps with those random elements that are not in the game such as butterfly landing on tip of your nose when you try to headshot someone...

Edited January 7, 2015 by halp

[lauri7x3 100]

yeah as i said i play on 3 24" monitors. i think i rly have an advantage in fov

[rybec 339]

I'd like to thing at some point we'd see firearms shoot where they're pointing and are influenced by where you're turning to look. Insurgency and Red Orchestra are good examples.

 

Remember that you're not firing from the hip, either. You're firing from the shoulder, you're just not using the sights.

[gibonez 3633]

I'd like to thing at some point we'd see firearms shoot where they're pointing and are influenced by where you're turning to look. Insurgency and Red Orchestra are good examples.

 

Remember that you're not firing from the hip, either. You're firing from the shoulder, you're just not using the sights.

 

Forced free aim would do wonders for the shooting mechanics in the game.

 

I hate the locked in optional free aim system of dayz and arma.

 

don't make it an option but instead invest heavily into free aim making hipfire past point blank range useless and overall increasing the fun of cqb.