The Anti-Game - Why DayZ will stay a crappy game

[Demoth 366]

If the core loop of the game would be fun you wouldn't have to make up stuff to enjoy it. Example: Chess. You don't need a story to have fun playing it. Or back in the day Counterstrike. Played that for years and it never got really boring even though gameplay is very limited. You only need more and more of stuff if the core loop ain't fun. Look up the term "core loop"! It's a big thing in game design.

The core loop of DayZ is flawed, because it takes too long for too little reward. At least for many players who then in return create the KoS problematic which then breaks the first loop (gearing up) of others. So players piss of other players by the very core mechanics of the game. That's the flaw.

People still believe there's a way out of that by adding more to the first loop...but it will only prolong that at best while others will make it their mission to break that loop into small pieces just as they did back then, do now and will do as long as they enjoy shooting others.

All I heard was "DayZ is flawed because <opinions>" :/

[tommes 331]

Every game has limitations and a lifecycle.  These realities do not presuppose the game isn't worth playing and is a complete waste of time, which is basically what the OP claimed.

Well, let's rephrase that a little: you could waste your time more efficiently on other games if you enjoy the firefighting part more than looting.

[drayson 158]

If a game is "Crappy" or not is an opinion which you are obviously entitled to have. Having said that, this alpha stage game has sold over 1.4 million copies. I would say that you are a minority and that few people agree with you out of the total players.

[tommes 331]

<opinions> :/

That has become the magic word to counter all arguments once and for all it seems. It's just an opinion. And because of that it has no weight whatsoever. Because opinions don't matter.

You know what? That's just your opinion.

[Demoth 366]

Well, let's rephrase that a little: you could waste your time more efficiently on other games if you enjoy the firefighting part more than looting.

Good. The let the ADHD twitch shooter crowd who gets upset at not spawning with M4's move on.

[tommes 331]

If a game is "Crappy" or not is an opinion which you are obviously entitled to have. Having said that, this alpha stage game has sold over 1.4 million copies. I would say that you are a minority and that few people agree with you out of the total players.

So 1.4 million dudes bought a crappy game. So what? You doubt the crappiness of the game?

And who cares about the majority. The majority once believed the earth being flat.

[Demoth 366]

That has become the magic word to counter all arguments once and for all it seems. It's just an opinion. And because of that it has no weight whatsoever. Because opinions don't matter.

You know what? That's just your opinion.

Unfortunately "it's just your opinion" is a valid retort when all the points you make are subjective while you try to make them sound objective.

[tommes 331]

What does it bother you guys so much what I have to say about DayZ? Do you fear I'll be right in the end, or what?

[tommes 331]

Unfortunately "it's just your opinion" is a valid retort when all the points you make are subjective while you try to make them sound objective.

I'm as objective as possible while you guys are resorting to your opinion of having fun with it anyways. That's ok. You sure have fun. For now. Maybe even for a long time. For many other it would be best to ditch DayZ and find some game better suited for their needs just as me. I'm just trying to help some of them realize that.

If you don't like my thesis so just ignore it. I won't keep you from having fun.

[Demoth 366]

What does it bother you guys so much what I have to say about DayZ? Do you fear I'll be right in the end, or what?

The push back generally comes when your point comes across as telling us we're not really having fun, or that we're having fun because of a feature that objectively sucks; in other words like saying, "You guys have bad taste".

You can like and hate whatever you like for whatever reason you like. Fact is, this game was never meant for mass appeal. They're trying to add in more content geared towards fostering cooperation and working towards goals.

Whether they will fully succeed or not, critically or commercially, is yet to be seen.

But nay-sayers are SO annoying because they pop up in every game. And then if that particular game fails, like SW:TOR, the Internet likes to jump up and down and say "I told you so!!!" despite being wrong about the other 30 games that succeeded.

[Sencha 100]

Playing DayZ is  a bad investment. The time/fun ration is way to low. All methods of players coping with that lead to other players suffering. Either by avoiding any interaction or creating bad experiences for them.

 

[Sinphaltimus 262]

I play DayZ SA Alpha because it is open ended enough to allow me to play any way I want and has just enough content to make it enjoyable. I also enjoy finding bugs that I do not see reported and reporting them there by helping the development process.

 

I hope my first reason never changes. A game where you truly write your own story. If DayZ SA is and will remain a crappy game, then it is just the crappy game I love to play. 500 plus hours in and I'm not bored yet.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Sinphaltimus

[Gurk-o-vich 25]

What makes the game flawed and not going to ever be a true survival sim, is the risk is purely virtual...hence why KOS is the only thing people do, when people get a gun pointed at them, they don't OH GOD OH GOD DONT SHOOT ILL DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. No in dayz they just say LOL FUCK YOU *PUNCH* *DIE*.

 

There is no REAL risk, in a survival game...ya thats flawed as fuck, almost completely broken.

 

People don't care what happens to their character, cause there is nothing to strive for, there is no reason to stay alive really.

 

Plus this being the internet, people love finding a place to vent, especially when you mix in schadenfreude, this game is "get your rocks off" simulator.

 

It lets you fuck others over while getting a rush of success whenever you are able to find it since like OP said there is very little of it.

Honestly, dayz is the perfect game for people ages 15-30, considering those are the internet generation who have nothing but pent up aggression and are desperate to find a release.

 

 

 

First, I knew that video and it was pretty accurate...

 

Second, good view you have there. So I think you want this game to be rewarding (as do I) and also punishing (so do I, too^^)... 

Yes, that would be a target to strive for but this is not the current state of development of the game and there you have the problem. The community delivers so much input for the devs to make something of it and nothing really happened so far (afaik). But how'd you punish people for just killing for the thrill or the laughter or whatever juvenile reason? I think this is difficult, because your character is not really related to a realistic world where you have dreams, regrets, hope and so on - you steer a dull human-like pixel pile through a boring and not challenging environment... Of course people get bored with it and resort to the next thing there is: pissing other people off, killing them, spoiling their fun and so on - for no apparant reason.

I always try to act as if I was there and sure, I can only walk around at this point and collect some stuff I might be needing or not. I always think about what I could actually do with a screwdriver besides having it with me looking neat and taking up space in my backpack... and there we go: Nothing! Why are those things there but not usable? Why isn't there anything to do but go around in hopes of conflict? Don't ask me, knock at the devs doors and ask them...

 

I think whoever wants to be patient (including me) will be rewarded at some point even if there are rumors that this game is and ever will be flawed *cough*. Excuse the sarcasm, but as far as I am concerned this game came out too early even for an alpha - so all of you who see that as an excuse: No. I agree with the dude called "skin_head_army"!

Edit: You should never generalize! Ages 15-30 is a wide range and lots of people are cool about the non-violent approach!

Edited March 3, 2014 by Gurk-o-vich

[ChiefMasterKush 321]

I'm as objective as possible while you guys are resorting to your opinion of having fun with it anyways. That's ok. You sure have fun. For now. Maybe even for a long time. For many other it would be best to ditch DayZ and find some game better suited for their needs just as me. I'm just trying to help some of them realize that.

If you don't like my thesis so just ignore it. I won't keep you from having fun.

So your point of this thread was to get people to stop playing DayZ?  Hmmmm you can see why that might not go over well on Teh DayZ forums.

 

You're welcome to have you opinions but somehow I think you may in fact be having fun with DayZ and somehow don't know it.  With over 800 posts I think by now if you weren't having fun or having a bad time you'd have moved on.

 

Thanks for your input and see you in the next game you play.

[Spiderdude20 32]

Time to add fuel to the fire, and since I haven't read the last... ten pages or so, I'm probably going to be treading on familiar ground.

 

First off, I'm sorry you're not enjoying the ALPHA version of the game. I mean, it's not like you bought the game not knowing ahead of time what to expect... right?

 

WARNING: THIS GAME IS EARLY ACCESS ALPHA. PLEASE DO NOT PURCHASE IT UNLESS YOU WANT TO ACTIVELY SUPPORT DEVELOPMENT OF THE GAME AND ARE PREPARED TO HANDLE WITH SERIOUS ISSUES AND POSSIBLE INTERRUPTIONS OF GAME FUNCTIONING.

 

That is what's on the Steam page for the game. I'm assuming you read it before you bought it right? So, calling this game crappy when it's still in development, and hasn't even reached beta yet is, well, pointless.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not speaking as a fanboi, or a troll, or whatever it is you're going to call me. But saying with 100% certainty that this protect is going to suck isn't very productive. Now having low expectations to avoid disappointment, fine that is fair.

 

My point is, if you don't want to stick around and witness the development of this game, report bugs, and provide feedback, then okay, don't do it then. But don't tell people this game is going to suck and not buy it. That's Dean's job. :P

[res 373]

Ahhh..you should read the last 10 pages.

 

I'm not writing ALL OF THAT again.

[Spiderdude20 32]

Ahhh..you should read the last 10 pages.

 

I'm not writing ALL OF THAT again.

Yeah, no thanks. I like not having my brain throbbing. :P

[comikz 218]

1. This game is in ALPHA

 

2. Dean is only stepping down (In around a year.), and will only leave once he is no longer needed for the development of DayZ SA.

 

3. Dean said this game in "Fundamentally flawed" because we the players are not playing his Idea/Creation in the way that he believes/wanted it should be played, reason being it's ALPHA.

 

4. People have different levels of fun, and success for that matter, just because your not getting your ideal fun/time ratio, doesn't mean the countless other players aren't.

[OhNoes 4]

One Word Five Letters A L P H A

 

You and anyone else who gives beans for a post like that is a complete idiot.

 

The game's concept is fine, you have less moments of "fun" and run the risk of getting that pesky "black screen" because this isn't set up like some shitty private hive with 1000+ vehicles, more loot, custom loadouts, etc.  If you don't have fun giving people the black screen, this game probably isn't for you, and never has been even in the mod, so why are you here at all?

[Zombie Jesus 723]

Even though I think Tommes is a complete moron capable of comparing third person to the greatest evils perpetrated by mankind he has a point. As always he manages to devolve into extreme hyperbole and douches up his own argument but he does have a point at the core. 

 

The game does get boring after awhile. Most games get boring after awhile. Citing the exception to this rule and acting like a majority of games can actually achieve the status of longevity like Counter Strike is holding games to an absurd standard but I do get his point. I am tired of the DayZ grind and have mainly moved on to other games at this point. I will return once more content is added but I doubt it will ever be as fun as it was at the beginning which is fine. I was glad to be introduced to Arma through DayZ, but I have only put in 25 hours into the Standalone and I owned it before 99.9% of the people here and still have not devoted that much time to playing. I liked the new inventory, I like where the zombies could end up, I liked the emphasis on survival and eventually crafting, and I enjoyed the weapon attachment system. But after playing the mod for a year and a half very heavily it was not enough to really get me interested in playing the game again. 

 

To be honest I was tired of the Mod and the only thing that kept me going were the mods of the mod. I am not saying I want a return of the easy mode servers (although I played those for fun on occasion), but without much content the game does have a glaring flaw that many have started to notice, the grind is not worth the end result eventually. 

 

I still have hopes but for now I am taking a deserved DayZ break. It was a ton of fun and I really enjoyed the open world nature of DayZ but the freedom of that style of game is eventually it's own death kneel. With no objectives the player eventually runs out of things to do, places to explore, and items to find and even tires of KoS and griefing players. 

[Highlander007 249]

[tommes 331]

So your point of this thread was to get people to stop playing DayZ?  Hmmmm you can see why that might not go over well on Teh DayZ forums.

 

You're welcome to have you opinions but somehow I think you may in fact be having fun with DayZ and somehow don't know it.  With over 800 posts I think by now if you weren't having fun or having a bad time you'd have moved on.

 

Thanks for your input and see you in the next game you play.

I didn't really have goals with this thread. Just wanted to share my thoughts and the resulting conclusion. And that is, if you strip away all the BS to keep you distracted until really something happens in DayZ there's not much left.

 

I had some fun with DayZ. But in retrospect it wasn't really much of that. I had like 3h sessions practically nothing happening. It creates some intense moments, which feel even more intense because most of the time nothing happens. That's the appeal. Some nice moments make you forget about the long grind. I just realized now that the investment for those few moments is far to high. At least for me. If you mayby still go to school and have like 10 hours a day to waste, this might be fine. I don't have that abundance of time.

Then I lost hope for DayZ becoming actually better. It might become better, but don't think it will be something like good anytime soon and all they adding is like cooking, hunting, disease...where's the fun with that? Anybody of you enjoys playing hunting games? Anybody enjoying cooking games? Anybody enjoying diseases?

That's all boring. The only real source of fun in DayZ are guns. So you're going to get one and then use it...which will create misery for some other player who just invested a couple of hours to get scraps.

That will always be there and destroy the coop. There's no way around it. 

 

As I said before, posting here has overall a higher intensity than playing DayZ. I have more fun reading all that crap people here write than doing the grind in Chernarus+-.

[tommes 331]

3. Dean said this game in "Fundamentally flawed" because we the players are not playing his Idea/Creation in the way that he believes/wanted it should be played, reason being it's ALPHA.

 

4. People have different levels of fun, and success for that matter, just because your not getting your ideal fun/time ratio, doesn't mean the countless other players aren't.

3. They play the way they can to have some fun. For many that fun means putting misery on others. That is part of this fundamental flaw. If you let people do what they want, a lot of that won't be fun for others. That creates like 20 threads a day with "Do something about KoS!"...

 

4. Whatever level they may find ok, they could have more fun in less time.

 

The big factor working for DayZ ist the unknown. As long as you don't know what's awaiting you it is exciting. But let me tell you, there's nothing that great awaiting you. Most likely it will be some guys wanting to kill you.

[tommes 331]

Even though I think Tommes is a complete moron capable of comparing third person to the greatest evils perpetrated by mankind he has a point. As always he manages to devolve into extreme hyperbole and douches up his own argument but he does have a point at the core.

The problem is rather you not reading properly and putting much more into that couple of letters than I intended to convey. I don't hyperbole. I just don't shroud my opinion into something nobody could hurt because so many here have sensitive feelings and other things usually associated with female genitalia.