DAyZ where are thou

[[frl]myke 68]

Note: if you can't be bothered to read long text or making serious thoughts isn't worth your time, please refrain from participating in this thread. Much appreciated, thank you.

 

I know that the game is in alpha.

i know the above means that there are bugs in the game.

I also know that features aren't not implemented yet and will be coming.

And i know that this will take until the end of this year (maybe even longer) as it was announced by the devs.

 

The last few days/weeks i had some thoughts about this game, where it is and where it could go. Also read several topics about what should be done regarding KoS and other styles to play the game.

 

First, i saw a lot of complains about the KoS style. Let's face it, it is a legit way to play the game, no doubt. Doesn't mean i have to like it but i have to accept it. A lot of people raised the opinion that KoS players should be punished, in one way or another. I don't share this thought. KoS players shouldn't be punished, not in some moral way nor in restricting features to them. The opposite way should be encouraged, teamplay and player interaction should be rewarded. Partially such mechanics are already implenented like the defibrilator and bloodbags/saline bags. You need at least one other player to use these which requires a minimal interaction. The game needs more of these kind of features that require player interactions.

 

Books, a big chance. How do you actually learn things? Besides the "learning by doing" approach, people learn by reading. As there are already books in the game, why not include manuals, technical books about various things. Imagine this: before you can start up a helicopter, you would have to read a book about basic helicopter procedures. Maybe with a little quiz which checks if you've actually read it so just picking up the book wouldn't be enough. After that, you could start a helicopter and fly. Now these books would be rare so not everyone would be able to fly. Such a pilot would be a valuable person which is worth to interact with and maybe to protect. The same concept could be used on other aspects, too. You need a certain knowledge level to repair things to pristine level. Say your clothes are badly damaged. With basic knowledge you could repair them to damaged, a level higher to worn and with max level to pristine. Same for weapons and maybe other aspects that aren't implemented in the game yet.

This would probably also require to limit knowledge to one or two aspects so a single person couldn't reach max level on everything. Either you can fly or can repair clothes or weapons. Please note that these are just examples as i don't know what features are definately coming.

 

Some might now think that this is bullshit, the game is about survival. You kill others, you survive, you win, right? Wrong. The survival of a single entity is just the beginning. Next step would be to ensure the survival of the human race. You can't provide this if you're just kill everyone on sight. You have to team up, have specialists in your group for each aspect, protect them and feed them as they would probably too busy to do their job and keeping your gear pristine.

 

Now you're probably thinking that this carebear playstyle is boring. Also wrong, this could be very interesting as not all players on the server have to be in the same group. These will mean fight for resources to keep the own group alive. It also means to be a interesting group so required specialists chose to join your group, not the other. War, firefights, intrigues and whatnot can take place. Take the weapon specialist as hostage to repair your weapons. Try to rescue such a specialist from a enemy group. Let your imagination flow, this could raise DayZ to a whole new level.

You are not forced to join such a group, you could be a lone wolf who occasionally trades with such groups or ambush them or snipe their base, rob resources and trade it with another group. Get hired to steal something. The possibilities are endless. You still can be a KoS player but this way it is less likely that such a player can have a working vehicle but this wont make the game unplayable for those.

 

 

Bottom line: we don't need any restrictions for KoS players, we need optional benefits for those who don't (always) KoS.

 

 

Final note: these are thoughts and ideas, not meant that only this way it will work.

 

Now i'm interested to hear other opinions. Please accept different opinions without flamebaiting, i really would like a serious discussion. Thank you.

[rickyriot 1009]

I think you might have a problem selling the skill tree idea as I've tried 'running that one up the flagpole but nobody saluted' to use crap business phraseology. Personally I don't think you should be able to operate certain vehicles or perform certain medical tasks without some form of "training".

The character curve is definitely something I'd like to see implemented, the question is whether others will buy into it. I still feel you will have vanilla players that just want to pick up the game and play, CoD or BF style, rather than spending time learning to do stuff.

Perhaps using the hardcore servers for a skill tree/character progression narrative?

[[frl]myke 68]

Well, i think ignoring a skill tree wont be that much of a issue. If you don't want to learn something, you don't have to. You would just have to take into account that the player in your crosshair could be the one to repair your damaged weapon. So either you shoot him and hope to find a pristine weapon to replace your damaged, or you take the risk of interaction and maybe you will get your weapons repaired. You still have the choice to shoot him afterwards if you insist so.

[rickyriot 1009]

When I suggested it previously I was met with a pretty blanket "no" regardless of whether people would use it or not.

 

One thing I would be worried about is if the character became a better shot due to training. That I am against. Sure experience might improve your aim in real life, but I'd hate it to turn into CoD where achievements created a rank of players who in one on one battle with the same weapons had a computer enhanced advantage.

[DayzForumer 284]

>alpher

[[frl]myke 68]

When I suggested it previously I was met with a pretty blanket "no" regardless of whether people would use it or not.

 

One thing I would be worried about is if the character became a better shot due to training. That I am against. Sure experience might improve your aim in real life, but I'd hate it to turn into CoD where achievements created a rank of players who in one on one battle with the same weapons had a computer enhanced advantage.

I second that. While it would be realistic it would not be a good addition to DayZ. Ability to aim and hit should remain equal for all players. Only state of weapon might have a negative effect so a badly damaged weapon would be more likely to have big spray.

[Window Licker 504]

The skill system is in the work's although exactly how in depth and detailed it will be remains to be seen, from what I've seen that is expected in this game, I'm gonna go it will be complex and take some time to master a skill.

 

The other thing I'd take into consideration is the weapon spawn rates, it's been planned that the high grade military weapons will be extremely rare and there has been a marked decrease in their spawn (M4) and an increase in the places where they spawn, I found one as a fresh spawn but opted to take an SKS as I knew I'd need to carry this giant paper weight to the mil bases to have a good chance of getting ammo, where the SKS while not as "good" was the better choice as more ammo is about.

 

In saying all that, the appearance of persistent containers, which will initially be backpacks won't allow the mass stockpiling of weapons via server hopping which is nice, but people will still stockpile ammo and all the pristine attachments they can for future use.

 

KoS by grifers will always take place, in 6 months time new spawns will be getting murdered with bow and axes instead of 60 rounds of 5.56 but it will still be present, some people just don't give a f about skills cos they just want to kill people, I'm predicting a large number of those people will leave once they realize what's happening and we will see a reduction in KoS, after numerous tears here about not being able to find the "1337 gUN5"

[Window Licker 504]

When I suggested it previously I was met with a pretty blanket "no" regardless of whether people would use it or not.

 

One thing I would be worried about is if the character became a better shot due to training. That I am against. Sure experience might improve your aim in real life, but I'd hate it to turn into CoD where achievements created a rank of players who in one on one battle with the same weapons had a computer enhanced advantage.

I very much doubt that will happen but I'm with you on that one.

[LegitOldSchool 261]

It's already been said and mentioned by Rocket that skills and benefits from not dying for a long periods of time are going to be implemented, he wants to add value to life.

 

As heard here.

Edited March 1, 2014 by EchoZeero

[GoldenKade 73]

Another KoS thread... DeathTax would be so angry.

[[frl]myke 68]

Another KoS thread... DeathTax would be so angry.

Another one who can't read. Please refrain from posting if you don't really know about what i was talking. Thank you.

[[frl]myke 68]

It's already been said and mentioned by Rocket that skills and benefits from not dying for a long periods of time are going to be implemented, he wants to add value to life.

 

As heard here.

Info's about DayZ i look on DayZ website and DayZ forum, no time to watch all videos on YT to hunt certain info's.

[tarascon 50]

Books, a big chance. How do you actually learn things? Besides the "learning by doing" approach, people learn by reading. As there are already books in the game, why not include manuals, technical books about various things. Imagine this: before you can start up a helicopter, you would have to read a book about basic helicopter procedures. Maybe with a little quiz which checks if you've actually read it so just picking up the book wouldn't be enough. After that, you could start a helicopter and fly. Now these books would be rare so not everyone would be able to fly. Such a pilot would be a valuable person which is worth to interact with and maybe to protect. The same concept could be used on other aspects, too. You need a certain knowledge level to repair things to pristine level. Say your clothes are badly damaged. With basic knowledge you could repair them to damaged, a level higher to worn and with max level to pristine. Same for weapons and maybe other aspects that aren't implemented in the game yet.

This would probably also require to limit knowledge to one or two aspects so a single person couldn't reach max level on everything. Either you can fly or can repair clothes or weapons. Please note that these are just examples as i don't know what features are definately coming.

 

 

 

 

 Good stuff.

 I'd like to just respond to what you say about books. I started playing just about two weeks ago today and a RL friend bought the game about five days ago. We've been talking about the same thing; it would be great to find tech manuals covering woodland survival and/or hunting guides, handling machinery (here, think about the posters talking about making your own ammo and operating lathes, mills,etc) or vehicles like helicopters, medical books, etc. If you don't find and read these texts you lack the skill. And I'm not saying DayZ should work like Fallout where you can absorb everything. Yes, keep the skill set reasonable. Maybe specialize in one or two skills. That sort of implementation in-game would give a player marketable skills--a clan needs a hunter/cook or a medic, let's say. And I'd like to see a barter system which goes along with that. If you're a solo survivor you can trade skill services for items. If you're in a clan your service comes with the certainty of remaining a vital member and you'd benefit from the security of being in a clan. Guy's a lousy fighter but a great medic or tailor (Need a ghillie suit? I can make one.), for example.

 There remains the issue of, say, soldier skills. Would reading a manual "upgrade" your sniping ability? Obviously, the person playing either is or isn't a good long-range shooter. But perhaps reading some manual would grant the player an in-game perk such as less wobble looking through a scope.

 I like it.

[rickyriot 1009]

Another KoS thread... DeathTax would be so angry.

 

Well it's not really.

[Window Licker 504]

 There remains the issue of, say, soldier skills. Would reading a manual "upgrade" your sniping ability? Obviously, the person playing either is or isn't a good long-range shooter. But perhaps reading some manual would grant the player an in-game perk such as less wobble looking through a scope.

 I like it.

I agree for the most part except for this, the other skills etc that you listed are hard to replicate in game, your ability to shoot effectively, gauge distance for zeroing and the like are all your personal skill and experience and should imo be excluded from the skill tree's completely, it's the only skill we have that actually translates in to the game and having an artificial modifier to me seems a bit silly.

[[frl]myke 68]

I agree for the most part except for this, the other skills etc that you listed are hard to replicate in game, your ability to shoot effectively, gauge distance for zeroing and the like are all your personal skill and experience and should imo be excluded from the skill tree's completely, it's the only skill we have that actually translates in to the game and having an artificial modifier to me seems a bit silly.

Completely agree. Skills that already translates into the game shouldn't be nerfed at all. Weapon stat (Pristine/worn/damaged/badly damaged/tuined) should be the only influence on that part.

 

 

:EDITH:

And since there were a few very smart people mentioning it: i completely disagree to punish KoS players and i completely agree that this is a legit playstyle, regardless if i like it or not.

Edited March 1, 2014 by -FRL-Myke

[sacrdandprofne 100]

Anything pushing this game more towards survival, and further away from CoD, gets a big "yes" from me.

[Highlander007 249]

I agree for the most part except for this, the other skills etc that you listed are hard to replicate in game, your ability to shoot effectively, gauge distance for zeroing and the like are all your personal skill and experience and should imo be excluded from the skill tree's completely, it's the only skill we have that actually translates in to the game and having an artificial modifier to me seems a bit silly.

Shooting skill. The more rounds you fire from a certain weapon, the more experienced you get with it and less wobbly it is when you use it, more accurate, more zoom, maybe you can attach more stuff to it, reload faster and etc,....The usual stuff that happens irl too when you use guns, you get more proficient with them

Edited March 1, 2014 by Highlander007

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Shooting skill. The more rounds you fire from a certain weapon, the more experienced you get with it and less wobbly it is when you use it, more accurate, more zoom, maybe you can attach more stuff to it, reload faster and etc,....The usual stuff that happens irl too when you use guns, you get more proficient with them

No No and No.  This is the garbage that would destroy this game.  I can see it now, sit in corner, shoot zombies 24/7, become leet.  Again, NO!!!  Skill comes at the users end, the one controlling the mouse.  

[tarascon 50]

I agree for the most part except for this, the other skills etc that you listed are hard to replicate in game, your ability to shoot effectively, gauge distance for zeroing and the like are all your personal skill and experience and should imo be excluded from the skill tree's completely, it's the only skill we have that actually translates in to the game and having an artificial modifier to me seems a bit silly.

 

 Yeah, I hear that. And it's hard to argue against your logic on this. But (the word "but" is always a qualifier which really says "No" and contradicts an agreement :D )...

 But, couldn't something like manual reading--say, about sniping--act as an experience modifier? Right click lets you hold breath and repeated experience shooting with a scope might actually create a more confident sniper within time (and using a text-reading function as an implementation of that?). You're absolutely right about gauging distance and, I add, tweaking the scope to offset drift or damage so I'll just stick to my "wobble theory" for now. The same thing might be said about, say, tailoring. I can't make pants in RL so I would like to see skills of that sort develop in the game eventually. This stuff could really turn DayZ into a hyper-realistic environment.

 Not all gamers are coordinated regarding hand/eye skills and that might cause them to leave Chenarus in disgust (if they don't know what sort of game world they're entering). Perhaps they shouldn't be playing DayZ to begin with but real people have spent real money and this may level the playing field for them somewhat. Of course, such players could become clan cooks, enter a social niche, and leave it at that.

 I love DayZ. There are few games which offer such potential.

 

 PS I just read the poster above and want to qualify that any "skill upgrade" would be small and finite. You raise a good point.

Edited March 1, 2014 by tarascon

[Window Licker 504]

Shooting skill. The more rounds you fire from a certain weapon, the more experienced you get with it and less wobbly it is when you use it, more accurate, more zoom, maybe you can attach more stuff to it, reload faster and etc,....The usual stuff that happens irl too when you use guns, you get more proficient with them

I see your point, I'm just a touch cagy about them doing something like that, implemented incorrectly it could really damage the experience, as with any of these system's I suppose. The main thing is your progress get's wiped every time you die and people already shoot on sight for any number of reasons, would people sit about and spend the day offing freshie's just to level up their gun skill?  I personally think so it would make the already paranoid population excessively paranoid and may in turn result in a large decrease in player interaction.

[Highlander007 249]

No No and No.  This is the garbage that would destroy this game.  I can see it now, sit in corner, shoot zombies 24/7, become leet.  Again, NO!!!  Skill comes at the users end, the one controlling the mouse.  

lol, you wont be able to sit and shoot like that. With limited ammo, limited food, spawning zombies around you, other players that can hear you and come to take ur gun from you....These skills would be best if they took a large amount of time to max. Like hundreds of hours per every different gun type.

[tarascon 50]

The main thing is your progress get's wiped every time you die...

 

Yes. That would be fine (and realistic).

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This is not a goddamn MMORPG.  Jesus, go play defiance if you want to level up with guns

[Highlander007 249]

I see your point, I'm just a touch cagy about them doing something like that, implemented incorrectly it could really damage the experience, as with any of these system's I suppose. The main thing is your progress get's wiped every time you die and people already shoot on sight for any number of reasons, would people sit about and spend the day offing freshie's just to level up their gun skill?  I personally think so it would make the already paranoid population excessively paranoid and may in turn result in a large decrease in player interaction.

I'm very much against skills dying with the character on account of KOS being an even bigger pain and getting killed by a hacker even harder to get over. Rooting for permanent skills instead.