Why is hardcore so underpopulated?

[atmaca (DayZ) 48]

 

to me playing in lamecore is just like going into a game menu and selecting "Easy" from the menu. It's as close to a military simulator as Mario Bros is.

 

Herp and derp were running in woods. Herp said:

 

- Hey derp, I got a question; If everyone has the same settings in a multiplayer game, can there be an easy mode?

- Gee dunno herp.. maybe we should go play hardcore servers where everyone has some other same settings, that would make the game harder. Because, you know, we are virgin and have no life.

- Wow derp that's a great idea!

[rickyriot 1009]

I am serious.  The engine and movement are so bad.  Most of the time, it can be even easier to get people.  With 3PP you have to deal with people being more able to spot you as you move or as you sit.  With 1PP, people are so bumbly in cities and towns that you can sit quite easily along known traffic areas and slaughter people.  It makes camping easier in many ways (though wall camping isn't as easy).

 

There is nothing harder about either style in the grand scheme of things, but I do so love how people seem to think Hardcore is for l33t players.  Better PVP players run on the regular servers since there isn't enough action on the hardcore servers.

 

There are so many holes in that logic I'm actually quite impressed. Ultimately it all comes down to realism. Sure there are things that aren't realistic in hardcore mode, some of those are down to the engine itself and it's limitations, some of that is down to the game still being in Alpha, and some of that is just the way the game will always be in order for it to retain a game element to it. However what is ridiculously unrealistic is the ability to scan 360' at an elevated position from your eyeline. That stops the game from being a simulator to it being an arcade game. There is nothing you can argue in relation to hardcore being unrealistic that would trump the elevated viewpoint.

 

Because, you know, we are virgin and have no life.

 

Oh, dear, you were doing so well too, it's always sad to see someone fall so close to the prize. However, thanks for playing we hope you have enjoyed your night. Drive home safely..

[Super_Duty 466]

To each their own... but to me personally, I cannot stand 3rd person games, NONE of them.  It has nothing to do with content or story, there are many games I would love to play because of those factors.  I just like the 1st person view, period!  It could be the best game on the planet, but if it's not 1pp, I'll pass, every time.

 

At first I thought that the only thing I could attribute this to is not being a console dude.  But truth be told, since back in the day with the release DOOM by id software (for those not of the genre) it's been PC only, mouse and keyboard only and fill my screen with what I could see through my own two eyes.  This could also mean that I just an old phuck, but the reality is is that it just doesn't matter, to me anyways.

 

At the moment, yes, maybe I sacrifice some playability in 1pp, the negative mouse acceleration is a major issue imho, but I've adapted to it by using 3rd party software that at least makes it playable.  FOV, what ever. Looks like I should hit my head on most door jambs but at least, even in alpha, I can adjust FOV.  Many AAA titles out there that have ignored adjustable FOV settings all together.

 

Back to the OP's observation... from what I've witnessed, the Exp. Servers on hardcore are plenty full.  If I had my way, I would abandon 3pp all together (be gentle) and all the resources sucked up by it to make the 1pp experience the best it could be.  Again, imho only.  Give me FO3, with community mod-like enhancements (zombie apocalypse) and bake that in with top notch survival aspects.  Refine the AI, limit ammunition to an extreme (forced reservation and team play to survive by sheer numbers).

 

Now don't get all crazy, this is just one person's objective opinion and viewpoint...

[PhillyT 554]

There are so many holes in that logic I'm actually quite impressed. Ultimately it all comes down to realism. Sure there are things that aren't realistic in hardcore mode, some of those are down to the engine itself and it's limitations, some of that is down to the game still being in Alpha, and some of that is just the way the game will always be in order for it to retain a game element to it. However what is ridiculously unrealistic is the ability to scan 360' at an elevated position from your eyeline. That stops the game from being a simulator to it being an arcade game. There is nothing you can argue in relation to hardcore being unrealistic that would trump the elevated viewpoint.

 

 

Oh, dear, you were doing so well too, it's always sad to see someone fall so close to the prize. However, thanks for playing we hope you have enjoyed your night. Drive home safely..

 

I am not taking a piss or anything, but 1PP is about 33% as realistic as an actual person.  Between tip toe peeking, leaning, ducking around things, the robotic movement destroys any sense of reality.

 

3PP at least marginally makes up for that.

[rickyriot 1009]

I am not taking a piss or anything, but 1PP is about 33% as realistic as an actual person.  Between tip toe peeking, leaning, ducking around things, the robotic movement destroys any sense of reality.

 

3PP at least marginally makes up for that.

 

Well of course it's not 100% realistic, if I wanted that I could nip out to the hills and take out rabbits with a home made bow and arrow without the aid of pixels. 

But if we are going down the realism argument, then lamecore is considerably less realistic than hardcore, and while certain things will be tidied up; FoV, sounds, etc you will always have the ridiculous immersion killer of that viewpoint in 3PP. It's just daft, imo. The problem is it provides such a massive advantage to those who use it in comparison to those who don't it's not a case of just not using it, you need to play on a server that doesn't allow it.

[louist 163]

We fume because all of the videos on the Internet are in 3rd person and in every video, the 3rd person camera is used to look over or around objects. And you're right, this is not an exploit, but an implemented feature that every player has the right to use to the fullest of their abilities. BUT, for those of us who have made the decision to play FPV only, the use of 3rd person (and all of the advantages and disadvantages that it brings) cheapen the experience.

The argument that 3rd person increases your field of view doesn't make any sense. Yes, when staring at a wall at point blank range, having the camera 5 feet behind you increases what you can see in your peripherals within 5-10 feet. After that short range, the change in perspective does little to increase your FOV.

Do your same little wall staring experiment and tell me what you can see in your peripherals after 30 feet. Then, switch to first person and try using that free look feature. This is how the players on hardcore servers deal with the limitations of an alpha videogame. By adapting and overcoming. I recommend you challenge yourself and try the same.

I agree, 3PP is immensely more visible (something of a pun intended) on videos, which in turn is a reflection of that perspectives greater popularity. But that's not, in my opinion, a reason to get angry. Those who want to play in the 1PP are at a disadvantage against those who use 3PP is undeniable, but that was a big reason behind creating the hardcore servers, to give those who want to play in first person a place to do so without disadvantage.

The lack of peripheral vision is, I believe, though I know of no RV developer coming out and saying so, that this limitation, this hinderence of situational awareness, was a motivation for the creation and inclusion of third person in the Arma series. This isn't an alpha issue; it won't change here if it hasn't changed in Arma 3. It's also something no engine can really correct for. It's just the reality of using a small, square screen to simulate vision. And while free-look help's compensate in 1PP, it does so as well in 3PP. And it doesn't really correct for the lack peripheral vision, but merely relocates your view; you still see as little as you do when you stare straight ahead.

I play both 1PP and 3PP, depending largely on who I am playing with. I find the two a different experience, sometimes wildly so, but I don't find 1PP harder.

What I'm trying to say, though, is that both perspectives have their flaws, and attacking each other for the perspective they choose, when neither needs to be exposed to the other, is a waste of time, if not downright toxic to this community.

[Super_Duty 466]

You've got to be kidding me... let's place a spotter (camera) behind the actual player to see things that a normal individual could never see and say that it makes up for something that doesn't exist.

 

 

 

I am not taking a piss or anything, but 1PP is about 33% as realistic as an actual person.  Between tip toe peeking, leaning, ducking around things, the robotic movement destroys any sense of reality.

 

3PP at least marginally makes up for that.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Super_Duty

[PhillyT 554]

With the exception of the more extreme wall looks, you don't see that much more with corner looking.  It is a far more realistic look.

[rickyriot 1009]

Offtopic, but I think it's worth mentioning, that R Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant in that clip) is a massive cunt who hunts lions.

 

Seriously, look at him, what a fucking cunt.

[rickyriot 1009]

With the exception of the more extreme wall looks, you don't see that much more with corner looking.  It is a far more realistic look.

 

I've got the feeling you're the sort of person that stands on the shore demanding the tide not to come in.. ;)

No offence but that is a really daft argument you are trying to put forward.

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Offtopic, but I think it's worth mentioning, that R Lee Ermey (the drill sergeant in that clip) is a massive cunt who hunts lions.

 

Seriously, look at him, what a fucking cunt.

Drill Instructor.

[Super_Duty 466]

Lion's, Bambi's, what's the difference...

Edited February 28, 2014 by Super_Duty

[rickyriot 1009]

Drill Instructor.

 

I prefer the term "cunt". If you want to hunt, fine, go and hunt, but at least hunt for food not for "sport" and if you are so weak as you need to get your jollies from killing things, don't kill endangered species. 

[Ineedscoffee 464]

I prefer the term "cunt". If you want to hunt, fine, go and hunt, but at least hunt for food not for "sport" and if you are so weak as you need to get your jollies from killing things, don't kill endangered species.

Could care less about the man. The title however, is respected. He isn't in the filthy army.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Nuff said

[rickyriot 1009]

Could care less about the man. The title however, is respected. He isn't in the filthy army.

 

Well I didn't have any particular leanings either way. I'd prefer him not to kill endangered species as they are, you know, endangered. 

In terms of the difference between instructor and sergeant, there is no such thing as a drill instructor in the UK, only drill sergeant - hence my faux pas. Obviously he is US Marine Corp in the film (although in an interesting twist a fair chunk of the film was actually shot in the UK).

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Nuff said

Nah man, the final word is play both. Otherwise all your doing is crippling your own experience.

[Super_Duty 466]

It was not my intention to drag the OP's thread off-topic.  The video was only to reinforce my viewpoint of 3pp, basically placing a spotter (camera) behind the actual player to see things that a normal individual could never see and say that it makes up for something that doesn't exist.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Super_Duty

[Ineedscoffee 464]

Well I didn't have any particular leanings either way. I'd prefer him not to kill endangered species as they are, you know, endangered. 

In terms of the difference between instructor and sergeant, there is no such thing as a drill instructor in the UK, only drill sergeant - hence my faux pas. Obviously he is US Marine Corp in the film (although in an interesting twist a fair chunk of the film was actually shot in the UK).

I agree one hundred percent. If your not going to eat it, don't shoot it. That simple.

[Super_Duty 466]

My wife would agree...

 

If your not going to eat it, don't shoot it. That simple.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Nah man, the final word is play both. Otherwise all your doing is crippling your own experience.

How is wanting a challenge crippling my experience?  If i wanted to play an arcade shooter, I'll buy an arcade shooter.  Hell, I've heard Ghost Recon Online is chalk full of win  :rolleyes:

[PhillyT 554]

I've got the feeling you're the sort of person that stands on the shore demanding the tide not to come in.. ;)

No offence but that is a really daft argument you are trying to put forward.

 

I disagree.  This is a difference of opinion, but 1PP players crowing about how much harder their Hardcore servers are don't understand the fact that neither is harder or more challenging than the other.  

[Ineedscoffee 464]

How is wanting a challenge crippling my experience?  If i wanted to play an arcade shooter, I'll buy an arcade shooter.  Hell, I've heard Ghost Recon Online is chalk full of win  :rolleyes:

I play both personally. It gives me two characters to experience the game with. To me, pigeon holing yourself to one style is cutting yourself short.

Why not enjoy both? Hell, I find third person to be great for relaxing after a heart pounding game of cat and mouse in first.

[Super_Duty 466]

It has nothing, imho, to do with anything about how harder it is perceived to be, but rather what is realistic...3pp is not even close to being realistic from the aspect of perspective.

 

I disagree.  This is a difference of opinion, but 1PP players crowing about how much harder their Hardcore servers are don't understand the fact that neither is harder or more challenging than the other.  

[hells high 676]

I find hardcore much more fun to play, not just firefights and whatever but just general encounters.