With Rocket starting his new studio

[gadyuka 99]

Creed, Dillon... doesn't matter, kragz. You're still crying and Carl Weathers is ashamed. Ashamed!

[Gobbokirk 546]

2. Rocket did say SA isn't what he had hoped. You can find it on reddit if you so wish.

See you even proved it by quoting.

Taking stuff out of context while you're at it.

No game will ever be perfect. And that he actually reflects tells us that it is like he always thought not perfect.

And no reason to think his new projects will use Arma engine.

Pointless threads about him being honest, just cause you don't like what he says, is still pointless and bull.

[kragz 156]

When people say global warming, do you go into your bunker?

Thanks for the helpful, useful and insightful contribution, Irish! 

[Rage VG 4033]

You're focusing on the wrong part of my point. Many high-hopes, promises and excitement were attached with the alpha release of this game, causing many people to invest and support the development of the game. Dean after months of buys at $30 goes on record to saying he always knew Dayz was a flawed concept and would never live up to his hopes and expectations, and would leave his BABY when he felt no longer OBLIGED. I'm sorry, but if this is the kind of attention and love he gives a beloved project then I brings all sorts of questions in his future development endeavors. 

 

I think it doesn't matter what HE had hoped the game comes out as at the end of the line; as long as it comes out fully functioning and as we expected it, we can't really demand more from him. Things have to end some time. If Rocket wants to end his work on DayZ, it shouldn't matter why; he's allowed to move on. You can't claim that the main reason people bought DayZ were because of Rocket's enthusiasm. A lot of people buy it because it's a really damn good game. It's been out for a very short time in alpha and with exception to the expected few bugs it's progressing greatly.

 

Ultimately, I don't feel his ambitions for the game or even lack thereof in certain aspects should really have an impact on what others perceive of the game as it's ultimately not going to affect development.

 

 

But thank you Rage VG for contributing constructively and giving your thoughts. Much appreciated and a breath of fresh air from all these reactionary emotional responses and abuses!

Wait, let me fix that.

 

wtf bro u a WorZ fan er summit? sware on me mum jus fook off ennit.

 

 

Okay, that hurt my brain. Remind me not to do that again.

[kragz 156]

2. Rocket did say SA isn't what he had hoped. You can find it on reddit if you so wish.

See you even proved it by quoting.

Taking stuff out of context while you're at it.

No game will ever be perfect. And that he actually reflects tells us that it is like he always thought not perfect.

And no reason to think his new projects will use Arma engine.

Pointless threads about him being honest, just cause you don't like what he says, is still pointless and bull.

My quote only served to prove he 'always knew' the premise was flawed and wouldn't live up to expectation. Why omit that before taking everybody's alpha money? It's a perfectly reasonable and honest question to ask.

 

I never even suggested his new projects would use the ARMA engine. In fact I would assume and hope not so!

 

It's not pointless at all. You seem to have missed the point so I'll repeat it:

 

He recently expressed how he ALWAYS knew how flawed the concept was, and will never live up to expectation. My point is say that before hyping and getting a fanbase to commit with cash towards the development. It harms his future credibility.

Edited February 26, 2014 by kragz

[Window Licker 504]

One thing I don't get, where you got all these alleged "Promises and excitement was what we got." I'm of the thinking that you got excited and decided that you where promised something that was not promised to anyone, or as rocket put it.

 

My opinion

For the current game? No

For the price? No (it will stay this price for some time)

To see the game? No (you can watch streams)

To participate in development? Possibly

Overall, I would not recommend it. But I think in a few weeks, it might go from "possible" to "yes" on the last one.

[Leo Balzac 190]

You call others fanboys and yet you are the one reacting to the announcement in a totally emotional fashion. The FACTS are this:

 

1) Dean will be leaving Bohemia when he thinks his input into the game is no longer needed. He said around 10 months, but will stay longer if needed.

 

2) Just because a game, in the creators' eyes, is flawed doesn't mean he thinks it's crap and a bad game. It just isn't living up to HIS particular vision for the game. I'm sure he was genuinely excited to make the SA and I'm also sure he's proud of what he's created. That is doesn't live up to his particular vision is of no importance to us, the end user.

 

3) Dean is moving back to NZ to be closer to his family, does this mean the entire Bohemia brain-trust is going to move to NZ just to work with him? Maybe, maybe not. This is pure speculation on your part yet you frame it as a definitive statement. You can't back this up with any facts, and have admitted as much so I don't see the point in discussing it.

 

4) You get upset with others not respecting your opinion, which is fair, but your opinion is severely flawed and based on raw emotion rather than any actual fact. You have a fair number of posts on this forum, so you must have known the kind of response this topic would receive. To act as though getting the response you should have expected is an affront is just plain childish.

 

5) On a personal note, I've enjoyed the game very much so far, even with game breaking bugs etc. There is nothing else like it in the market and for $30 it's still a deal. I have played a fair number of hours on this game and I feel anyone else who has played at least 80 hrs has got their monies worth and more. Look at the price of some AAA titles that offer less in terms of gameplay for more.

 

All this being said, you're entitled to your opinion. I just happen to think your opinion is completely unwarranted and I know the VAST majority of mature, rational players agree with me.

[Gobbokirk 546]

It's not pointless at all. You seem to have missed the point so I'll repeat it:

 

He recently expressed how he ALWAYS knew how flawed the concept was, and will never live up to expectation. My point is say that before hyping and getting a fanbase to commit with cash towards the development. It harms his future credibility.

I'll be a good boy and stick to this part.

You're still focusing on one line of the whole interview.

We've seen it over and over again.

Sure taken out of context it doesn't look good.

He could have gone deeper on what he felt was flawed, sure.

Who knows what was actually said during the interview that they left out though.

He's talking about creating a better multiplayer experiense, learning from this, and knowing it's not perfect.

"He recently expressed how he ALWAYS knew how flawed the concept was, and will never live up to expectation."

Nothing ever does. It's the nature of gaming.

He's not saying "I made a crap game and now I am off to make a better one!".

If that was the intent of his statement, I would agree with you.

But taking one sentence and focusing on that is in no way worth a discussion when taken out of context.

[ispecter 55]

Trust me with dean stepping down I'm sure the game will continue to be great, dean is a inventor he wants to create another new hit and sell it to the next company. Dayz isn't going anywhere

[gadyuka 99]

Please be aware that our Early Access offer is a representation of our core pillars, and the framework we have created around them. It’s a work in progress and therefore contains a variety of bugs. We strongly advise you not to buy and play the game at this stage unless you clearly understand what Early Access means and are interested in participating in the ongoing development cycle. Please keep in mind that we do not expect to reach Beta status sooner than the end of 2014.

 

Said it before and will say it again, dude spent time on this DayZ concept and cashed in for it.

 

His credibility? Pffft... he told you not to buy it in the first place.

 

Screw his credibility. I question your reading ability.

[dallas 5195]

Are we really going to start this idiotic discussion all over again, using them same ignorant assumptions based on excluding the context again? Seriously if you can find that little two word quote: "Fundamentally flawed", you can find the actual context too, you have no legitimate excuse for being this ignorant.

 

ffs do we really need two ignorant threads on this subject?

Edited February 26, 2014 by Dallas

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

I understand your frustration as a fanboy, but please try to keep it objective without flaming.

 

1, How is that bullshit? It's common sense the first place he is going to look for new members of his team are people he has previously worked with. Please don't allow your love of DayZ blind you from probability

2. Rocket did say SA isn't what he had hoped. You can find it on reddit if you so wish. 

 

Please refrain for flaming and keep to the topic as it does your argument absolutely nothing but show you are emotional about what I have posted.

 

I'm not a fanboy, but yes, I am frustrated (and therefor emotional).

Frustrated by people in this forum, who can obviously not read or think. And you, Sir, fit in one of these categories. (this conclusion is made the same as the one in the first post.)

AND I'm frustrated because in the 43-page-monster about this topic (except the question) I wrote...5 or 6 times explanations why sentences like the two I quoted from you ARE ripped out of context and, in fact, plain wrong if reworded and put in another context like you did.

AND I'm frustrated because I can't check the forum here without stumbling above another one of these threads, made by someone that can't read or think, which makes me want to invent a device, that allows you to bitchslap people over the internet.

 

And I flame as much as I want to now. Ive tried to be helpful so often in these goddamn threads and explained over and over and over again where the error in these thoughts is that I really just want to troll and flame in these threads. And that's what I just did.

 

But again, i'll try to be a nice guy and just say some things that you may have missed due to the lack of reading or thinking skill:

 

 

With rocket starting his new studio and jumping ship from his 'baby' and potentially taking the most talented members currently working on SA with him, how can he possibly expect to be trusted again after so many fans of the mod invested and participated in the development of the game to have Rocket give up and express how SA isn't going to be what was promised.

 

This sentence, dear audience, is BS because of the following things:

1)He is not starting his new studio (the way you wrote it implied that it would happen now)

2)He is not jumping ship from his "baby".

3)the accusation that he would take anyone with him is...well...unfounded.

 

First I quote myself from another thread about "jumping ship". These things are all taken from official interviews/rockets  reddit posts/his twitter...

1) Dean Hall has not stepped back as project leader by now

2) He will not step back as project leader until DayZ goes into beta

3) He estimates this to happen in late 2014. There is no set date on this. maybe he will work until december 20th 2014, maybe 5th march 2015.

4) He wants to step back for 2 major reasons:

a) he thinks he is the wrong kind of personality to lead a project that is in beta and only gets polished and somebody with a different mindset would be better for the development of the game from the point where it goes into beta

b ) it is impossible (for him) to lead a 50++ team from the other side of the world and he just wants back home - but continue to work as an advisor from there

5) He said in an interview in June 2013 that he wants to step back as project leader in (estimated at that time) 12 months (...which would have been be June 2014). So you could accuse him of again not holding on to a set date. And I haven't heard that he worked less hard since the time he first mentioned that he wants to step back back than...

6) Please, if you get hooked on the "flaws" thing: Edit: read the quotes below

7) Judging someone you don't know or judging his job performance without having an inside view is just not nice and bad manners

 

 

here, some Quotes from Dean Hall about the "flawed concept"/"not was he promised"

I'm very critical of the work I do, I believe that's why I can do work that ends up quite successful. I'm very critical not just of the delivery of work I do but the base concepts behind them. I like to share and discuss those critiques because I think that makes me a better designer through the process.

 

 

I am saying I do not believe DayZ is the ultimate multiplayer game. I'm rather surprised people think the concept is so amazing, because it's about 20% of what I believe an amazing concept would be. I'm not saying the DayZ concept is flawed in itself - but compared to my ideal of the "ultimate" game it is not.

Please remember: these quotes are tiny selections from a four hour long discussion about DayZ and my future plans. The two things have nothing to do with each other, I want to go home to New Zealand. And in future, I want to do my best to make the ultimate MP game one day.

 

 

Just because DayZ was commercially successful does not mean it is the perfect multiplayer game.

We can make DayZ absolutely perfect, seamless, optimized, and running fantastic in every way - and it in my eyes it will not be the ultimate multiplayer game.

Absolutely, 100% I'm proud of what the team and I have achieved. Very proud! But I'm aware that many of the limitations we face at a core level, exist because of my mistakes as a designer at the star

 

 

Where did I say I was not happy with what I created?

I find flaws in everything I do. Even the way I travel to work, I critique the way I drive constantly, attempting to minimize risk. For me, to look at a concept and identify it's core faults is as natural as breathing.

Also, I did not write the article. I discussed DayZ with a journalist who was visiting the studio over three days. The interview in question lasted about four hours.

 

 

That was one comment made in the middle of a four hour interview :)

What I'm referring to there, is that I see DayZ as having elements of the "ultimate multiplayer experience" but I was discussing with the interviewer all the things that I did not think were perfect about DayZ. We were discussing the ways in which I believe the concept - the core design - that I came up with is flawed. There are things the game cannot do because of the way I designed it. These are important lessons that I take heed of.

However, they don't detract from the game at all, and indeed to change these would dramatically change the game and not necessarily for the better (for example: I could just be completely wrong). The DayZ game should head in the direction it is, but any future game I make should take into account what I feel are flaws in my previous design(s).

 

 

 

 

tl;dr: There is no such thing as tl;dr, LEARN TO READ DAMMIT

Edited February 26, 2014 by LaughingJack

[gadyuka 99]

ffs do we really need two ignorant threads on this subject?

There are only two so far?

 

Sweet - I'm going to be the first to post a third one!!!

[PhillyT 554]

Wait a minute, why would anyone currently employed by BI go with Dean anywhere?  Dean doesn't have the money or experience to produce anything.  He doesn't have a publishing company, the equipment, or resources to start an effective development studio.  He has never produced a single product.  The idea that anyone would jump ship with him with any real talent is a strange assumption.

 

Anyone with talent know better than we what Dean represents.  He, by his admission, is an idea guy.  Idea guys don't run good companies.  They contribute to good companies.  Dean will go back to New Zealand and obscurity.

[iBane 381]

You're focusing on the wrong part of my point. Many high-hopes, promises and excitement were attached with the alpha release of this game, causing many people to invest and support the development of the game. Dean after months of buys at $30 goes on record to saying he always knew Dayz was a flawed concept and would never live up to his hopes and expectations, and would leave his BABY when he felt no longer OBLIGED. I'm sorry, but if this is the kind of attention and love he gives a beloved project then I brings all sorts of questions in his future development endeavors. 

 

But thank you Rage VG for contributing constructively and giving your thoughts. Much appreciated and a breath of fresh air from all these reactionary emotional responses and abuses!

 

...

Edited February 26, 2014 by iBane

[Ryu (DayZ) 3]

Trust me with dean stepping down I'm sure the game will continue to be great, dean is a inventor he wants to create another new hit and sell it to the next company. Dayz isn't going anywhere

I hope the game does get great because right now running around getting the same gear and killing people sure has got old super fast.

[gadyuka 99]

I hope the game does get great because right now running around getting the same gear and killing people sure has got old super fast.

Super fast is better than fast, right? Cool.

[kragz 156]

I'm not a fanboy, but yes, I am frustrated (and therefor emotional).

Frustrated by people in this forum, who can obviously not read or think. And you, Sir, fit in one of these categories. (this conclusion is made the same as the one in the first post.)

AND I'm frustrated because in the 43-page-monster about this topic (except the question) I wrote...5 or 6 times explanations why sentences like the two I quoted from you ARE ripped out of context and, in fact, plain wrong if reworded and put in another context like you did.

AND I'm frustrated because I can't check the forum here without stumbling above another one of these threads, made by someone that can't read or think, which makes me want to invent a device, that allows you to bitchslap people over the internet.

 

And I flame as much as I want to now. Ive tried to be helpful so often in these goddamn threads and explained over and over and over again where the error in these thoughts is that I really just want to troll and flame in these threads. And that's what I just did.

 

But again, i'll try to be a nice guy and just say some things that you may have missed due to the lack of reading or thinking skill:

 

 

This sentence, dear audience, is BS because of the following things:

1)He is not starting his new studio (the way you wrote it implied that it would happen now)

2)He is not jumping ship from his "baby".

3)the accusation that he would take anyone with him is...well...unfounded.

 

 

Being as polite as possible, I think you're not understanding me clearly.

 

1) I didn't imply at ALL it was happening right away - I based it on Rockets own words that he plans to do so probably at the end of this year. You implied that yourself. Moot point.

2) Leaving development around the time it is due to enter beta is leaving development. Not matter which way you construe it. Moot point.

3)The accusation that he wouldn't, is unfounded. Which is why I repeatedly referred to the likelihood of it happening. Moot point.

 

All your quoting is to argue against a strawman. The point is, I repeat for the god-knows how many time - Why not state the flawed concept and his plan to leave the project around the time alpha was released? Is that SO unreasonable a request?

[Highlander007 249]

and jumping ship from his 'baby' and potentially taking the most talented members currently working on SA with him, how can he possibly expect to be trusted again after so many fans of the mod invested and participated in the development of the game to have Rocket give up and express how SA isn't going to be what was promised.

 

The situation reminds me of game developer Peter Molyneux who always managed to hype the innovation of his latest developments (Fable series, Black and White, and that xbox kinect boy thingy that never went anywhere). Only difference between Peter and Dean is Peter only asks for your interest during development and not your cash.

 

How many of you will be reserved about any of his future projects?

Game is already worth 30 bux as it is, especially compared to some other shit that's on Steam currently. Rocket did good, but he should keep his promise of making a much better game than the Dayz mod is.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Highlander007

[gadyuka 99]

What was your point again?

[Leo Balzac 190]

I'm still failing to grasp how Rocket's opinion on his own game, with reference to what he had envisioned, has any bearing on your enjoyment of the game? Has it suddenly become less enjoyable because he thinks, in his own mind, that it is not the perfect MP game? Has anyone ever thought this was the perfect MP game? I am really trying to understand how his statement that he always thought the concept was flawed has affected your opinion on the game. 

 

You talk about straw-man arguments?! This whole topic is based on one giant straw-man, and that is your opinion that Dean deliberately tried to decieve the DayZ community by not coming out and saying, that in his mind, the game was a flawed concept. Don't they teach critical thinking in High Schools and Universities anymore?!

[kragz 156]

Please be aware that our Early Access offer is a representation of our core pillars, and the framework we have created around them. It’s a work in progress and therefore contains a variety of bugs. We strongly advise you not to buy and play the game at this stage unless you clearly understand what Early Access means and are interested in participating in the ongoing development cycle. Please keep in mind that we do not expect to reach Beta status sooner than the end of 2014.

 

Said it before and will say it again, dude spent time on this DayZ concept and cashed in for it.

 

His credibility? Pffft... he told you not to buy it in the first place.

 

Screw his credibility. I question your reading ability.

 

Question your own. The problem I am arguing is NOT the current state of the alpha build. If that were so, your point would have some credibilty. My point, for the 1000th time is no where in that disclaimer does it say that he plans to leave development in a year (which is later than he expected, by his own admission!) and that this game will not live up to his initial hopes and dreams - and how this relates to his future credibility as a games developer. 

 

Is this finally clear now? 

 

I'm not crying about the state of the game or anything of the sort. I'm merely asking how many of you would think twice about investing in a future Dean Hall project considering what has happened on this one. But this thread has derailed into an emotional shitstorm of fanboy rages arguing strawmen, red herrings and utter nonsense, for the most part. 

 

Times like these always remind me of good old George Bernard Shaw:

 

"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it"

 

Maybe some day I will learn...

[DarkwaveDomina 1099]

...jumping ship from his 'baby'...

...potentially taking the most talented members currently working on SA with him...

 

What made you think this shite was worth its own thread?  :emptycan:

[iBane 381]

Firstly, it's not Creed, it's Dillon. Secondly your comment is entirely useless and not participating in this thread. At least provide feedback WHY it's a useless thread. I'm growing tired of people reacting emotionally to any criticism of anything DayZ or Rocket related. It's like objectivity does not exist in this forum.

 

This whole thread is a duplicate and therefore useless.  That was my point...  And I never said that was Creed in your pic, I said it was Carl Weathers...

Edited February 26, 2014 by iBane

[Nienko 41]

Who is Rocket Dean Wall?