Effective deterrent to KOS?

[Irish. 4886]

DISCLAIMER FOR THE READING IMPAIRED: I LIKE KOS. THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-KOS THREAD. 

 

So I had an idea. Not sure if its possible or even a good one but it pertains to deterring the KOS mentality in game.

 

 

If a "hit" box could be created around the player, slightly larger than the player, creating a "miss parameter". So that when an enemy takes a shot but misses you, and that shot lands within the miss parameter box they are tagged as an aggressor. Meaning they took the first shot at you. Now at this point if they kill you, your body disappears immediately on death as the kill is deemed a KOS death. But should you defend yourself and kill the aggressor his body stays persistent until server restart or clean up script. So in the end if you KOS, you never get gear. But if you don't shoot first and kill, you are rewarded.

 

What do you think that would do as far as killing on sight goes? Would it encourage interaction or just create another mess? 

 

Discuss your opinions.. 

Edited February 20, 2014 by lrish

[AUTRanger 23]

The problem with your idea is that kos guys often dont kill you for your gear, they just kill you because they are afraid of loosing their gear or just shooting anything that moves.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

No.

[Valadain 270]

So I had an idea. Not sure if its possible or even a good one but it pertains to deterring the KOS mentality in game.

 

If a "hit" box could be created around the player, slightly larger than the player, creating a "miss parameter". So that when an enemy takes a shot but misses you, and that shot lands within the miss parameter box they are tagged as an aggressor. Meaning they took the first shot at you. Now at this point if they kill you, your body disappears immediately on death as the kill is deemed a KOS death. But should you defend yourself and kill the aggressor his body stays persistent until server restart or clean up script. So in the end if you KOS, you never get gear. But if you don't shoot first and kill, you are rewarded.

 

What do you think that would do as far as killing on sight goes? Would it encourage interaction or just create another mess? 

 

Discuss your opinions.. 

 

You do know that KoS isn't cheating right? It isn't exploiting a mechanic. It is a part of the game. An intended part of the game. There are valid reasons to kill on sight, even as a "hero".

[omgwtfbbq (DayZ) 1069]

Just run around with your gun and melee weapon on your back. Talk to people you see. You don't get killed on sight. If anyone tries, shoot back.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

You do know that KoS isn't cheating right? It isn't exploiting a mechanic. It is a part of the game. An intended part of the game. There are valid reasons to kill on sight, even as a "hero".

 

Yeah but some of these kids still cling to this silly "code of conduct" in a video game.

 

It's a video game. I'm going to play however I want. That means you're allowed to do the same as well. People look at KoSing like it's hacking.

 

"Omg we have to stop this epidemic!"

 

Honestly, this is just a temporary thing due to the lack of content atm. Everyone needs to stop acting like this is all the game is ever going to be and is some sort of "problem" that needs specialized developer intervention

[Irish. 4886]

The problem with your idea is that kos guys often dont kill you for your gear, they just kill you because they are afraid of loosing their gear or just shooting anything that moves.

 

Oh I know.. I used to be in a very well known KOS clan on DayZ mod. We would kill for sport and only sport. But I am simply asking what you think that idea would do to KOS mentality and if it would be effective as a deterrent? 

 

You do know that KoS isn't cheating right? It isn't exploiting a mechanic. It is a part of the game. An intended part of the game. There are valid reasons to kill on sight, even as a "hero".

 

At what point did I make that premise so abundantly clear to you that you had to ask me? LOL.. ok, sorry.. you kind of asked for that. To answer you:

 

No. I know its not cheating, exploits, or blahh-blahh-blahh.. Ive killed more people in dayz than I can count man. My old clan tag was literally [KOS]. Ive prior to that been a bandit hunter, helping others and killing in that manner. I know its necessary. But what about my question, what do you think of the idea I proposed and what it would do to the KOS mentality? 

 

 

 

Again, to everyone who is just going to jump the gun here: I LIKE KOS. Im simply starting a conversation. Move on from that first part though.. mm'kay? 

Edited February 20, 2014 by lrish

[razguul@gmail.com 80]

Stop with the fucking anti-kos threads already! It's not going away and there is no reason to try and stop it!

[Irish. 4886]

Stop with the fucking anti-kos threads already! It's not going away and there is no reason to try and stop it!

 

Really.. I had to add an edit for people like you. So thank you for that.. it felt good taking the time to hold your hand. Want to tell me a story now?

[razguul@gmail.com 80]

Really.. I had to add an edit for people like you. So thank you for that.. it felt good taking the time to hold your hand. Want to tell me a story now?

 

Removing the ability to loot a corpse if you KoS is Anti-Kos? Wow... that I really have to explain that to you.

[Irish. 4886]

Removing the ability to loot a corpse if you KoS is Anti-Kos? Wow... that I really have to explain that to you.

 

How do I explain this to you? 

 

dis·cus·sion

disˈkəSHən/

noun

 

1. 1.

   the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

   "the proposals are not a blueprint but ideas for discussion"

[Irish. 4886]

I really, really, really am starting to get sad about this community. I know you're not all 12 year olds. Most of you are grown adults and you cant handle basic reading comprehension due to a built up tension over KOS? I never once even made it sound like I was against KOS outright, it took your own presumptions to get there. I am pro KOS. I love it. Without I would not play this game for faks sake.  

 

CALM Down.

[razguul@gmail.com 80]

Your idea is bad, discuss.

[Valadain 270]

Oh I know.. I used to be in a very well known KOS clan on DayZ mod. We would kill for sport and only sport. But I am simply asking what you think that idea would do to KOS mentality and if it would be effective as a deterrent? 

 

 

At what point did I make that premise so abundantly clear to you that you had to ask me? LOL.. ok, sorry.. you kind of asked for that. To answer you:

 

No. I know its not cheating, exploits, or blahh-blahh-blahh.. Ive killed more people in dayz than I can count man. My old clan tag was literally [KOS]. Ive prior to that been a bandit hunter, helping others and killing in that manner. I know its necessary. But what about my question, what do you think of the idea I proposed and what it would do to the KOS mentality? 

 

 

 

Again, to everyone who is just going to jump the gun here: I LIKE KOS. Im simply starting a conversation. Move on from that first part though.. mm'kay? 

 

I suppose I don't understand why you'd want to deter something that isn't a problem? I personally don't KoS if I can help it. But without them out there, hunting, I don't think I'd have half as much fun.

[Zoridium JackL 16]

Stop with the fucking anti-kos threads already! It's not going away and there is no reason to try and stop it!

there's plenty of reason to try and stop it, namely that it's not fun to be walking around and then to suddenly die out of nowhere. not being able to fight back in any way is not fun.

 

that being said OPs idea is very poor, not only do people not KoS for gear most of the time, but even if they did you shouldn't directly punish people for killing other players because while the current amount of KoS going on is far too high the game would be terrible without any hostile players. most of the KOS problems will be solved when they solve the "melee is for zombies, bullets is for players" mentality and can reverse that so you actually have reasons not to shoot players and to either avoid them or attempt proper interaction first.

 

things like actually threatening zombies in significant numbers that swarm to you when they hear the very loud gunshot, and weapons that actually degrade at a noticeable rate, and  genuinly scarce supplies that you might need from other players but dont want to ruin with gunshots, when enough things like this get added shooting players will actually become something you want to avoid, but not something you wouldn't do if need be.

[Blaaaaaaag 75]

The problem with your idea is that kos guys often dont kill you for your gear, they just kill you because they are afraid of loosing their gear or just shooting anything that moves.

 

Oh I know.. I used to be in a very well known KOS clan on DayZ mod. We would kill for sport and only sport. But I am simply asking what you think that idea would do to KOS mentality and if it would be effective as a deterrent? 

 

It would have no effect on the KOS mentality, it would not be effective as a deterrent, for the reasons AUTRanger stated.

 

...you cant handle basic reading comprehension...

 

Tell me more.

[Valadain 270]

there's plenty of reason to try and stop it, namely that it's not fun to be walking around and then to suddenly die out of nowhere. not being able to fight back in any way is not fun.

 

that being said OPs idea is very poor, not only do people not KoS for gear most of the time, but even if they did you shouldn't directly punish people for killing other players because while the current amount of KoS going on is far too high the game would be terrible without any hostile players. most of the KOS problems will be solved when they solve the "melee is for zombies, bullets is for players" mentality and can reverse that so you actually have reasons not to shoot players and to either avoid them or attempt proper interaction first.

 

things like actually threatening zombies in significant numbers that swarm to you when they hear the very loud gunshot, and weapons that actually degrade at a noticeable rate, and  genuinly scarce supplies that you might need from other players but dont want to ruin with gunshots, when enough things like this get added shooting players will actually become something you want to avoid, but not something you wouldn't do if need be.

 

You don't "die out of nowhere" unless someone is hacking. They are somewhere. You failed to check your surroundings and died. You certainly have every chance in the world to fight back. Don't just shamble into town and walk straight up to the hospital. Don't loot exposed roof-tops if you haven't cleared the area. Stay low and keep things in between you and hills or tall buildings.

 

That aside, more zombies is good. Degrading guns is not. I'm good with needing to clean them, but that isn't parts degrading. Reducing ammo and increasing zombies at the same time will have the opposite effect than you intend. It will be much more economical to one-shot a player alone, away from zombies, to loot their ammo than to waste a ton of ammo going into towns to get more ammo.

[dethsupport 110]

The problem with your idea is that kos guys often dont kill you for your gear, they just kill you because they are afraid of loosing their gear or just shooting anything that moves.

This was well said and I agree with this point.

 

I've also noticed that many people will tend to disconnect after they die to go to a different server - low population I assume to regear. This means that regardless of how they died I usually see corpses despawning in 30s which usually isn't enough time for people to really pick through someone's gear unless you were in a very close proximity.

 

We can talk about this like gentlemen - but I think its clear by now people are flaming and it would probably be best to just let the thread go.

[Duenan 226]

less ammo...

 

nuff said

[Zoridium JackL 16]

You don't "die out of nowhere" unless someone is hacking. They are somewhere. You failed to check your surroundings and died. You certainly have every chance in the world to fight back. Don't just shamble into town and walk straight up to the hospital. Don't loot exposed roof-tops if you haven't cleared the area. Stay low and keep things in between you and hills or tall buildings.

 

That aside, more zombies is good. Degrading guns is not. I'm good with needing to clean them, but that isn't parts degrading. Reducing ammo and increasing zombies at the same time will have the opposite effect than you intend. It will be much more economical to one-shot a player alone, away from zombies, to loot their ammo than to waste a ton of ammo going into towns to get more ammo.

 

by degrading I really just meant maintinance, and I didn't say decrease ammo and increase zombies, just acheive a significantly better balance then what we have now. and if you can one shot a player without attracting a small horde of zombies I would consider that a problem, you need to give drawbacks to shooting your weapon at players without directly punishing people. shooting someone straight of the bat without attemtping to communicate or avoid them should be the less enticing option. and if a player has ammo on them I imagine it would probably be ruined by you shooting them as per the current system, infact I'd make it so that something like ammunition is more likely to get damaged due to its volatile nature, which would make getting all your ammo from players you shot less economical then you beleive.

 

and no matter how good you are you can't always find hidden players, I have hidden from people who not only know the genral area I'm in, but know exactly what I look like and are less then 50m away, finding a good hiding spot and shooting at people who come by without getting immediatly spotted isn't as hard as you make it out to be, esspecially in this game which owing to it's general graphics style has very crowded landscapes and backdrops visually speaking offering great protectiong from people looking for you.

 

and it's impossible to be in cover all the time unless you literally never move and can survive literally forever without food or water. so yes, you can die out of nowhere without someone having hacked or you having made a mistake and it's not fun to be shot by someone you didn't even get the chance to fight against.

[Mopa 44]

Internet = bad community. 

bad community = griefers and kos (kill for no reason but fun/never loot the corpse)

griefers = fun bandit hunting times

 

imo kos will forever be in the game even when there is more content. I just adapt and have fun playing to hunt griefing kosers

Edited February 20, 2014 by Mopa

[crazykage 1063]

Op, I think I see what you are going for, but more importantly, WHY.

 

See, you, me, and all the others out there that KOS for ANY reason, do so because its part of the game, and because it is fun.

 

But what many KOSers don't see, is that there IS a problem with KOSing, but it has nothing to do with the KOSers. The problem is....ALPHA.

 

Right now, there isn't much in the way of content in the game. Our options for interaction and cooperation are quite limited. So our options are to cooperate (heal, feed, trade, team up, etc.), and to fuck with (handcuff, rob, poison, etc.) one another, and even THOSE have a limited amount of choices. How many different ways can you spray bleach in someone's mouth? How long will it take to find blood test kits, test one another's blood, and just HAPPEN to have compatible blood for transfusions? How many different ways are there to share food with a bambi. Sure, we could team up, but for what? So we can gear up with the safety of numbers. THEN what? Run around in the woods and do nothing? I can achieve the same state ALONE. I don't need to team up to get to that point. Not only are they limited, but the options themselves aren't fully fleshed out yet. And it doesn't take long to exhaust them all.

 

And of course, the third option is to kill. Whatever the reason: boredom, preemptively (possible threat), reactively (defense), etc. And many of us players do so, because there isn't much else to do, and frankly, its the most entertaining part of the game atm. Without it, the other options would quickly become not only boring, but POINTLESS. The constant threat posed by other players is the only REAL threat in game atm, and is what makes the game more interesting for all.

 

But the problem is that with these limitations, MANY players are resorting to killing one another, and the game HAS devolved into a bit of a PVP mosh pit at this point. So much so, that its safe to assume that every armed player WILL kill you if you don't kill them first. Hell, even unarmed bambis are a threat. I was once in elektro, fully armed, not looking for a fight, but got attacked by three bambis with nothing but their fists! It IS getting a little ridiculous at this point.

 

But the solution isn't to implement any kind of mechanic that discourages KOS. We already have the threat of damaging otherwise valuable gear if we aren't careful in how we do it. The solution is simply TIME. As more features are implemented, there will be more to do, more options, and more REASONS why we should cooperate, beyond the simple safety of numbers. I look forward to the day when I will not just want, but REQUIRE assistance from another player for more than just getting a saline or blood transfusion (again, something I don't NEED another player for: I can just eat and drink my way to health). Repairing vehicles, gathering materials to build a base, defending it from other players, etc.

 

But one thing to remember: The threat of another player killing you, for any reason or none at all, will ALWAYS exist.

 

[Irish. 4886]

Here is why I posted what I did.

 

1st and foremost as a simple discussion. I like discussions on subjects I find interesting. One of those subjects happens to be peoples view on removing or curbing KOS in a game that is built around it. I disagree that it would ever be a good thing, and I see that BIS seems to be content with eventually making the game much less KOS oriented. I think that is a failure from the ground up and I dont want it to happen. So I sat back and tried to think about the most extreme thing you could do that would still leave freedom of playstyle but perhaps would curtail the KOS in game. And then I wanted to see what the community thinks would happen. I have my own presumptions. It was essentially a coy way of saying to the DEV team to ignore the "lets push out KOS in favor of survival" idea, and just focus on leaving content and making the game run smoothly. 

 

The really funny part was when people got all ragey at me thinking I was wanting no KOS, or disliked it, or anything other was just popping a question. Its also sad. Thats why I came back just for this and walked away last night. People completely missed the point and just killed it. So I will let it die, and walk away with the lesson that you should never start conversations where the short bus line starts. 

Edited February 20, 2014 by lrish

[Rudette 435]

Maybe it isn't an Anti-KOS thread, but it is still ..tiring.

The only necessary deterrent is more content.

Social dynamics might change when we are presented certain advantage for playing as a group or simply have more to turn on guns on than each other. We don't need to look into any sort of artificial systems to evoke any sort of penalty.  What  we need is a game world that is out to devour us, survival systems that are brutal and unforgiving. Rogue-like levels of difficulty and uncertainly. Really, all of these "Let's fix it" threads are completely without worth until we have seen what the community evolves into when presented with more difficult situations and heightened risk management.

Edit: Sorry your thread went tits up. You have to understand, people are tired of the subject in general.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Rudette

[loud3803 2]

I kind of like the idea of KOS, I can be a bandit when i need to be or hunt them when it suits me.  I think the only way to reduce KOS are other players hunting bandits, or known KOS'ers.  As more content is added we will probably see a kind of social evolution, especially if player to player trading systems are implemented. Just my whack at the dead horse. :rolleyes: