An interesting discussion based on this speech

[helcol 174]

NOTE: I am starting this topic for the sole purpose of investigating the morals of Dayz and how those morals are transferred over to reality.

 

I remember seeing Charlie Chaplin's "The Great Dictator"(1940) and I will post the first, and last, time that he spoke on film.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAjyJDBDaFM&feature=share&list=LLSVcMcLbaPitpUU2410YyqQ

 

I am curious as what he says that does/does not apply to the Dayz universe. 

 

It interest me because in usual disaster situations (hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, etc) people become more human and put away their conflicts and differences to try to fix what has been broken [side note: this is also seen in the book 'World War Z', Even if you hate books, this book is definitely worth a read!] But would a survival situation that occurred in an isolated location like Chenarus lead to the chaos and situations that we love and play for while in Dayz?

 

I personally feel that the part about greed does occur sometimes in Dayz as people go around taking someone else's life, "because there is nothing more valuable than life". I have played as a bandit before and I have stolen a bambi's only source of food because I wanted to be healthy. I wonder if it is because greed got the best of me, or if something else sociologically or psychologically enticed me to do it?

 

 It is an interesting thing to bring up and I am curious to know how you guys/gals thought, questions, & comments about Dayz in relation to this video. Also, respond in an ethical manner please, respect other's thoughts/opinions, that is all I ask.

 

 

 

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

The speech alone deserves my beans.

But,concerning the psychology of men i have to say that after a disaster

there will be limited people driven be their humanity.If for example,an earthquake strikes,most of them will be preoccupied

robbing the nearest supermarket rathen than look inside the wrekage for survivors.

[helcol 174]

The speech alone deserves my beans.

But,concerning the psychology of men i have to say that after a disaster

there will be limited people driven be their humanity.If for example,an earthquake strikes,most of them will be preoccupied

robbing the nearest supermarket rathen than look inside the wrekage for survivors.

good insight, I never thought of it from that perspective.

[TheWookieMonster 405]

That is a great speech and I personally agree with all of it, especially about greed poisoning humanity. The problem is that I am not sure I agree with the idea that all (or even most) humans think that way. That we are all basically good and want to help each other. I see too much that shows the opposite every day. People are capable of overcoming those things and becoming like that but most people are also capable of some pretty awful things. 
 

I think this video sums up how I view humanity right now.  :|

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX014TndQJs

 

Great horror movie btw! :D  Much like a lot of the stuff in Walking Dead or in movies like the Road, it shows how freaking horrible humanity can be..... 

[helcol 174]

@abentwookie, I have watched the mist, the end made my sister 'rage quit'. When she saw what happened, she stood up silently, went to her room, and slammed it shut. 

 

The video does show the evil side of humanity and it could explain some of the interactions that happens in Dayz. Good post!

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

Sure lots of people will come together in aid after disaster strikes, but often at ground zero the criminal element takes over during the early stages. Of course this will vary depending on location.

 

Regards.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello ther

 

As a bit of self appointed film buff Ive obviously heard of this film, but as Ive never been a Chaplin fan, rather a Harold Lloyd fan) Ive never seen it.

 

I shall change that this week.

 

No matter how good or bad the film is, that's an epic speech.

 

The music though, that seems to have been added, it sounds far too modern.

 

Excellent stuff.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Nicko2580 398]

The speech alone deserves my beans.

But,concerning the psychology of men i have to say that after a disaster

there will be limited people driven be their humanity.If for example,an earthquake strikes,most of them will be preoccupied

robbing the nearest supermarket rathen than look inside the wrekage for survivors.

I don't think this is true at all. Certainly not of a majority. It's not hard to find stories of entire communities pulling together after a disaster with only a few instances of anti-human behaviour. 

Look at Haiti after the earthquake there - yes, there was trouble. There was looting, violence and children being kidnapped and sold into slavery but this was all done by minority criminal groups who were already doing this type of shit anyway and a minority of others. Looting a supermarket in a disaster to feed your family is also not really comparable to looting electronic stores or jewellery stores etc. No reasonable person is going to have an issue with people grabbing some food and no reasonable person is going to be worried about looting sellable things when they've got a family and friends to take care of.

The average person on the street either moved to a shelter area and attempted to survive or pitched in and helped out to rescue survivors, clear rubble and begin rebuilding. So many human stories came out of that disaster and people from all over the world rushed over there to help. The government response both inside and outside the country was abysmal, but that's pretty much governments for you.

I think this is true of almost every major disaster you care to name. In my country we often get hit by massive tropical storms which devastate towns and cities. The community effort and the genuine, heartfelt humanity that shines in these situations far outstrips the minority that use a disaster for their own personal profit.

[helcol 174]

Hello ther

 

As a bit of self appointed film buff Ive obviously heard of this film, but as Ive never been a Chaplin fan, rather a Harold Lloyd fan) Ive never seen it.

 

I shall change that this week.

 

No matter how good or bad the film is, that's an epic speech.

 

The music though, that seems to have been added, it sounds far too modern.

 

Excellent stuff.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

the music was added, but it gives off the right mood to empower the message rather than distort it.

[mjeon21 20]

I totally forgot about this video haha, one of the best speeches by Chaplin.

[helcol 174]

@Nicko2580, Interesting counterargument, I will agree that they're many different reactions from the community in different disasters/survival situations. I wonder what happened in the back story of Dayz that led to its current state?

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I don't think this is true at all. Certainly not of a majority. It's not hard to find stories of entire communities pulling together after a disaster with only a few instances of anti-human behaviour. 

Look at Haiti after the earthquake there - yes, there was trouble. There was looting, violence and children being kidnapped and sold into slavery but this was all done by minority criminal groups who were already doing this type of shit anyway and a minority of others. Looting a supermarket in a disaster to feed your family is also not really comparable to looting electronic stores or jewellery stores etc. No reasonable person is going to have an issue with people grabbing some food and no reasonable person is going to be worried about looting sellable things when they've got a family and friends to take care of.

The average person on the street either moved to a shelter area and attempted to survive or pitched in and helped out to rescue survivors, clear rubble and begin rebuilding. So many human stories came out of that disaster and people from all over the world rushed over there to help. The government response both inside and outside the country was abysmal, but that's pretty much governments for you.

I think this is true of almost every major disaster you care to name. In my country we often get hit by massive tropical storms which devastate towns and cities. The community effort and the genuine, heartfelt humanity that shines in these situations far outstrips the minority that use a disaster for their own personal profit.

Give a man a fish,and he will eat for one day.

Teach a man how to fish,and he will have food for a lifetime.

 

Personally,i'm not intreasted in the food offered by men.

If my stomach was empty and i had an apple,i would give my apple to a hungry stranger.

Then from that apple i would take it's seed and plant it on the ground.

I can assure you,a seed that is the product of good will and love,will surely grow to a healthy,strong tree.

Then neither me or the stranger will be hungry again.

 

Edit:It's not people's fault.It's that the people have forgotten love.I belive their love is just numb,but still exists within.Yet the hard part is to show love to a complete stranger even if there is no earthquake going on. :)

Edited February 19, 2014 by Damnyourdeadman

[Rudette 435]

I will give you beans, for the art and for the feels that this speech represents. I used to believe in it. But not anymore. Not in a long time.

The thing is...Humans are cattle, they are machines. Perfect little productive consumers. They don't think about why they chose their religion. Their taboos. Their standards. All of these things things are provided by the culture they are born into. A sense of self is driven out of them replaced by mindless faith and a need to fit in and be part of their tribe of choice. Intellect is looked down upon, spat upon. It's more important to put on the pretty pink pinstriped shirt of popularity than it is to be your own person and make your decisions, have your own thoughts and tastes. Humans gleefully slit the throat of their own individuality to then skip and dance over it's body for that fleeting sensation of feeling loved, fitting in. Herd animals. To our core. Most people will live and die without a modicum of self-awareness.

Human culture thrives on suffering and profit.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Rudette

[helcol 174]

My god, this thread so far has had insightful comments that have given me a new perspective on what people would do in a time of crisis. Lets keep up the good posting.

[Methadon36 5]

That is a great speech and I personally agree with all of it, especially about greed poisoning humanity. The problem is that I am not sure I agree with the idea that all (or even most) humans think that way. That we are all basically good and want to help each other. I see too much that shows the opposite every day. People are capable of overcoming those things and becoming like that but most people are also capable of some pretty awful things. 

 

I think this video sums up how I view humanity right now.  :|

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IX014TndQJs

 

Great horror movie btw! :D  Much like a lot of the stuff in Walking Dead or in movies like the Road, it shows how freaking horrible humanity can be..... 

 

 

OHH such a good moving and great ending!!  And how many actors from the walking dead are in this is great also.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I will give you beans, for the art and for the feels that this speech represents. I used to believe in it. But not anymore. Not in a long time.

The thing is...Humans are cattle, they are machines. Perfect little productive consumers. They don't think about why they chose their religion. Their taboos. Their standards. All of these things things are provided by the culture they are born into. A sense of self is driven out of them replaced by mindless faith and a need to fit in and be part of their tribe of choice. Intellect is looked down upon, spat upon. It's more important to put on the pretty pink pinstriped shirt of popularity than it is to be your own person and make your decisions, have your own thoughts and tastes. Humans gleefully slit the throat of their own individuality to then skip and dance over it's body for that fleeting sensation of feeling loved, fitting in. Herd animals. To our core. Most people will live and die without a modicum of self-awareness.

Human culture thrives on suffering and profit.

God is offering love to humans,if he chose,he could extreminate the whole human race and make something else in our place.

Then from that new race,he would make it so that they lack their free-will and forever love their creator.Why does God bother with humans anyway? Is even our creator a slave of the sensation called love? Why did he choose to be this way? Some say he build the world with that stuff.... Some believe he dosen't even exist.

You may be the most good looking,intelligent or rich person on Earth.Yet if you are lacking the ability to love though,none of this matters.

 

Edit:If even you creator,loves the feeling of feeling loved,then why should you not?

You will see soon enough that alot of people will perish in the name of love.

Those who have the luxury and don't want to lose their position in society,will gladly trample upon love's name.

Making them to be the most ruthless of the bunch,The true definition of wolves in sheep's clothing.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Damnyourdeadman

[helcol 174]

rudette and damnyourdeadman, I feel both of you are right in your own respects due to the fact that some people thrive off of hate others thrive off of love. No matter, I love having the choice to choose either love, hate, or somewhere in between on any of my lives in Dayz.

[Nicko2580 398]

@Nicko2580, Interesting counterargument, I will agree that they're many different reactions from the community in different disasters/survival situations. I wonder what happened in the back story of Dayz that led to its current state?

In the initial stages of any catastrophe, there will be panic. People will get violent. Destructive. They will protect their own before anyone else, as is proper and correct. People will be confused. Upset. Scared. This always leads to irrational and reactive decisions which leads to casualties, cruelty and strife.

The argument I made comes into play once the dust of the catastrophe settles. Once the earthquake has stopped and the buildings have stopped falling. Once the storm has blown over. Once the virus has infected and killed most of humanity. 

To survive and rebuild you need other people. This is a game and I hope the devs try and model that as much as possible, but it is just a game and there are no real consequences for your actions other than losing time. You don't really have to rebuild civilisation or even any semblance of it, you just have to pretend to and that will always be a factor in how DayZ is played.

 

 

I will give you beans, for the art and for the feels that this speech represents. I used to believe in it. But not anymore. Not in a long time.

The thing is...Humans are cattle, they are machines. Perfect little productive consumers. They don't think about why they chose their religion. Their taboos. Their standards. All of these things things are provided by the culture they are born into. A sense of self is driven out of them replaced by mindless faith and a need to fit in and be part of their tribe of choice. Intellect is looked down upon, spat upon. It's more important to put on the pretty pink pinstriped shirt of popularity than it is to be your own person and make your decisions, have your own thoughts and tastes. Humans gleefully slit the throat of their own individuality to then skip and dance over it's body for that fleeting sensation of feeling loved, fitting in. Herd animals. To our core. Most people will live and die without a modicum of self-awareness.

Human culture thrives on suffering and profit.

This is an interesting perspective and while I agree with you in some respects I think you generalise too much. People are individuals. Get them away from the 'herd' and the popularity and the corporations and they are the same as any one of your friends and family. We all have the same basic instincts and need; nourishment, shelter, safety. These are almost always best achieved for the whole by working together. None of the bullshit about countries, nations, skin colours, or anything else matters. Science shows us clearly, that we are far more similar than we are different.

Right now almost everyone playing DayZ is likely to be in a country where there isn't a huge amount of strife. People likely aren't getting shot in the streets or pulled from their beds in the middle of the night never to be seen again for simple things like their ideologies or supporting the 'wrong' politics/religion or having the 'wrong' sexuality. It's likely that your country isn't in the throes of poverty or hasn't just been half devastated by a natural disaster. It's easy to get comfortable and forget that most people just want to live their lives in peace and not be persecuted for the decisions they make. When the shit hits the fan though, how you respond determines your humanity, nothing else. 

Would you help someone you didn't know if it risked yourself? Why? Why not? Would you want someone you didn't know to help you if you were going to die? 

I'd like to think that I would help someone, regardless of who they are, simply because we're both members of the same species and I am a rational reasonable human that abhor's suffering - but I live in a comfortable country too and I won't know unless I get out of it or the shit hits the fan here.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Nicko2580

[Rudette 435]

God is offering love to humans,if he chose,he could extreminate the whole human race and make something else in our place.

Then from that new race,he would make it so that they lack their free-will and forever love their creator.Why does God bother with humans anyway? Is even our creator a slave of the sensation called love? Why did he choose to be this way? Some say he build the world with that stuff.... Some believe he dosen't even exist.

You may be the most good looking,intelligent or rich person on Earth.Yet if you are lacking the ability to love though,none of this matters.

I am no Christian. Nor am I big on any form of organized religion. I have my reasons. Religion is messy, a topic I would rather not tread. Always ends in an argument. I'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Rudette

[Nicko2580 398]

Oh and I forgot to share this - it's my favourite version of The Great Dictator speech!

[helcol 174]

In the initial stages of any catastrophe, there will be panic. People will get violent. Destructive. They will protect their own before anyone else, as is proper and correct. People will be confused. Upset. Scared. This always leads to irrational and reactive decisions which leads to casualties, cruelty and strife.

The argument I made comes into play once the dust of the catastrophe settles. Once the earthquake has stopped and the buildings have stopped falling. Once the storm has blown over. Once the virus has infected and killed most of humanity. 

To survive and rebuild you need other people. This is a game and I hope the devs try and model that as much as possible, but it is just a game and there are no real consequences for your actions other than losing time. You don't really have to rebuild civilisation or even any semblance of it, you just have to pretend to and that will always be a factor in how DayZ is played.

 

 

This is an interesting perspective and while I agree with you in some respects I think you generalise too much. People are individuals. Get them away from the 'herd' and the popularity and the corporations and they are the same as any one of your friends and family. We all have the same basic instincts and need; nourishment, shelter, safety. These are almost always best achieved for the whole by working together. None of the bullshit about countries, nations, skin colours, or anything else matters. Science shows us clearly, that we are far more similar than we are different.

Right now almost everyone playing DayZ is likely to be in a country where there isn't a huge amount of strife. People likely aren't getting shot in the streets or pulled from their beds in the middle of the night never to be seen again for simple things like their ideologies or supporting the 'wrong' politics/religion or having the 'wrong' sexuality. It's likely that your country isn't in the throes of poverty or hasn't just been half devastated by a natural disaster. It's easy to get comfortable and forget that most people just want to live their lives in peace and not be persecuted for the decisions they make. When the shit hits the fan though, how you respond determines your humanity, nothing else. 

Would you help someone you didn't know if it risked yourself? Why? Why not? Would you want someone you didn't know to help you if you were going to die? 

I'd like to think that I would help someone, regardless of who they are, simply because we're both members of the same species and I am a rational reasonable human that abhor's suffering - but I live in a comfortable country too and I won't know unless I get out of it or the shit hits the fan here.

These are the post we need to see on the forums more often, They are well thought out, give valuable insight into the discussion at hand. I think this is pure knowledge into a situation that goes into detail and acknowledges the bias that is ever present. Well done!

[Rudette 435]

This is an interesting perspective and while I agree with you in some respects I think you generalise too much. People are individuals. Get them away from the 'herd' and the popularity and the corporations and they are the same as any one of your friends and family. We all have the same basic instincts and need; nourishment, shelter, safety. These are almost always best achieved for the whole by working together. None of the bullshit about countries, nations, skin colours, or anything else matters. Science shows us clearly, that we are far more similar than we are different.

 

I am a touch judgmental, a personality flaw that I'm not to proud of. At the very least, I am aware of it. Community is a weakness as much as it is a strength, that is, when it grows to the point of uniformity. Free thought is still something you are persecuted for, and at the very least, ridiculed for. Even in the modern world. I suppose you are right though, my generalization is too broad. Of course, It's possible that I'm not human enough to relate.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I am no Christian. Nor am I big on any form of organized religion. I have my reasons. Religion is messy, a topic I would rather not tread. Always ends in an argument. I'll just have to agree to disagree.

Well neither was i at first,because i found the idea absoloutely ridicoulus with no absoletely basis.

I was always the one who was the first to disagree and mock anything religion related.

So if i was myself before i became relligious,i would totally react at a conversation like this because of i lack to offer you basic proof.

Nah,chill out.I'm not the Christian-Taliban kind of guy. :P

I would never submit my opinion upon another forcefully.

[Nicko2580 398]

I am a touch judgmental, a personality flaw that I'm not to proud of. At the very least, I am aware of it. Community is a weakness as much as it is a strength, that is, when it grows to the point of uniformity. Free thought is still something you are persecuted for, and at the very least, ridiculed for. Even in the modern world. I suppose you are right though, my generalization is too broad. Of course, It's possible that I'm not human enough to relate.

Amen ( :p ) to that sister(?). 

I question everything and often get told that I'm an idiot. People get angry at me when I talk about things like genetic engineering to alleviate suffering/save lives/improve biology and tell me it's 'playing God' like that means something. 

Buzzwords, catch phrases, quick-fixes. People don't really think about anything they do anymore and to be honest I am guilty of that to some degree as I suspect almost every human is these days. Comfort and convenience are the name of the game, often at the expense of others. It's even likely that the computers that you and I are using were manufactured at the expense of someone in another country (especially as I am currently on a Mac). 

The world is a difficult place and every detail you consider is waiting to trip you up morally and ideologically. Most people can't deal with that and so they live in a bubble.

[helcol 174]

I am a touch judgmental, a personality flaw that I'm not to proud of. At the very least, I am aware of it. Community is a weakness as much as it is a strength, that is, when it grows to the point of uniformity. Free thought is still something you are persecuted for, and at the very least, ridiculed for. Even in the modern world. I suppose you are right though, my generalization is too broad. Of course, It's possible that I'm not human enough to relate.

Also, the book '1984' does an amazing job at showing a society controlled by uniformity. Definitely worth a read.