DayZ needs Humanity back

[Boogyman93 10]

I kept wanting to start a thread on this subject but I couldn't think of a valid argument for why Humanity should be added to DayZ:SA. I felt that starting a new thread in witch I would just say that I want a way to distinguish bandits from other players and try to eliminate the need to be a "shoot first, ask questions later" player myself just wouldn't be enough. But today I found a thread about this on a computer hardware forum and thought the argument and idea was good enough.
This was a response to the original post on that thread:

"This is what happens when kids overrun a game.  Day Z didn't used to be like this; back when it was a newly released mod for ArmA 2, it emphasized teamwork, and since it was played by ArmA 2's more mature community people actually did work together.  Most people didn't shoot first and ask questions later, but ever since most BF/CoD/Titanfall gamers jumped on board, things changed.
 
What's worse is, the developers of Day Z seem to want it to be this way.  Originally Day Z had a "humanity" system: essentially it gave a distinctive bandit skin to those who shot on sight.  This way, you could tell who'd be hostile upon first glance, but they removed this system, lowered the amount of zombies on the map by hundreds (though they may have fixed this by now), and made loot/vehicles much more common (though I believe standalone fixes this).  
 
They need to add the humanity system back and expand on it, perhaps by enforcing some kind of penalty on those who shoot on sight (make them visible on the map and make zombies spawn around them)."

Source: http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2117293

[TIC 1050]

There have been discussions of distinguishing evil-doers of DayZ by giving them some type of symbol (Like a tattoo or an angered expression) to show that they've committed a murder on a survivor. Not sure if it'll be making a debut or not.

 

I personally like not having a humanity system. Being chosen a position of your actions of what you've done becomes very predictable on other people. It's as simple as trusting others. Remember when people have told you not to trust strangers? Same applies to DayZ. We all play for the risk of losing, we can't expect to win every time.

[kingrex 85]

Sorry but no. In real life if some one started killing others they don't magically spawn new clothes or anything else because they kill another person. I don't like the map idea either because it just is not realistic and it reinforces a specific play style. I just don't like the ideas for the fact that I want dayz to stay authentic to real life, any ways welcome to the forum.      

Edited February 19, 2014 by kingrex

[Martmital 436]

So in the mod everyone just held hands and passed each other beans?

[Boulard83 7]

You are facing what the average 1.5 million people who buyed the game end up doing in this gaming situation. 

 

Me and friends are doing some KoS but not all the time. We mostly KoS full geared peeps and even more if they are a squad. I've been ***-fuc***  to much time by peeps i was helping to loose my time helping peeps i dont know. 

With new spawn, we just play a little bit and then release them with some food. 

Edited February 19, 2014 by Boulard83

[pale1776 375]

To be hinest, Chernarus is a sucky map all.the way. It was never meant to be played outside the coast. DayZ had to stick.with this sadly. Id like to see a map the size.of Chernarus, but mostly city. Think new orleans, has woods an swamps, but still a huge city.

I say this bexause it seems that bambies and friendlies jump on new maps an mods in a hurry to escape kos and play it like it was intended. Then kosers and campers follow. You should see the hero/nonkos haters on steam, they stop short of public execution when you mention it.

[djporternz 644]

I'll agree with the comment made in the OP about the Devs wanting DayZ to be more of a run-and-gun style PvP game. The direction of the roadmap and the priority list seem to indicate as much, too a point. They are, however, adding in other features that are definately not designed to make this style of game easy. Hopefully we will get a more balanced sandbox when everything is in place.

 

As to a humanity system -- no. no. no.

 

Why is it that when people start discussing a 'humanity' system, what they really mean is a 'morality' system that emphasises what they class as 'good' being beneficial and everything else as 'bad'.

 

Moot point, anyway, as once DayZ hits release and we have access to private servers/hive and modding, I doubt that the game will continue to reflect the vision that Dean or the other Devs think it should be. We will see an explosion of variants that are slightly different to each other. Bring it on!

[dethsupport 110]

perhaps by enforcing some kind of penalty on those who shoot on sight

No one should be penalized in any way for playing how they want to in a game that expressly encourages you to play how you want to.

[igotrage 47]

Its a sandbox game. You could role play a different playstyle every day of the week should you wish and its that freedom which makes the game more enjoyable for me.

I know people want killers to be identifiable but its the fact that their not which makes the game realistic. Some killers never show remorse for their actions, so as such wouldn't display any distinguishing charectoristics other then maybe their insatiable thirst for blood but that doesn't mean they look or act any different to others.

[Nicko2580 398]

I kept wanting to start a thread on this subject but I couldn't think of a valid argument for why Humanity should be added to DayZ:SA. I felt that starting a new thread in witch I would just say that I want a way to distinguish bandits from other players and try to eliminate the need to be a "shoot first, ask questions later" player myself just wouldn't be enough. But today I found a thread about this on a computer hardware forum and thought the argument and idea was good enough.

This was a response to the original post on that thread:

"This is what happens when kids overrun a game.  Day Z didn't used to be like this; back when it was a newly released mod for ArmA 2, it emphasized teamwork, and since it was played by ArmA 2's more mature community people actually did work together.  Most people didn't shoot first and ask questions later, but ever since most BF/CoD/Titanfall gamers jumped on board, things changed.

 

What's worse is, the developers of Day Z seem to want it to be this way.  Originally Day Z had a "humanity" system: essentially it gave a distinctive bandit skin to those who shot on sight.  This way, you could tell who'd be hostile upon first glance, but they removed this system, lowered the amount of zombies on the map by hundreds (though they may have fixed this by now), and made loot/vehicles much more common (though I believe standalone fixes this).  

 

They need to add the humanity system back and expand on it, perhaps by enforcing some kind of penalty on those who shoot on sight (make them visible on the map and make zombies spawn around them)."

Source: http://forums.evga.com/tm.aspx?m=2117293

[TEST_SUBJECT_83 465]

NO.

 

IRL you cant tell shit about another person, so why should you in DayZ.

...and don't say because it's not RL.

 

Not knowing adds to the game, it doesn't take away from it.

[super_shadow 26]

The best way would be some SCARY face of character who keep killing and killing again. They did that in some single player games like "Star Wars Knight of the Old Republic" (when you make bad deeds, with a time, you got some marks, you eyes become angry, lips look more rude etc.)

But I clearly understand that this can be hardly achived by current game mechanics. That will be very realistic if watching the face of a person who came along and keep saying "I'm not hostile", you can guess (and that's the point - it should be not very obvious) - how many ppl he approximately have killed for last few dayz.

In real life, it is almost this way - when 2 ppl meet each other in some dangerous place) and decide to come closer (they still don't trust each other, 'cause it's hard to see somebody's eyes in the binocular or scope), then, standing near, both of them, still holding the guns on guard, are watching opponent's way of talking, way he look, comparing what he tells and how he looks, and trying to guess, how much trust does this person worth.

And the face of soldier, who killed a lot, can look almost like the face of killer. So, I say again, ppl are guessing comparing what the person is saying and how he looks. Surely, the PK, who killed 25 noobs for last 24 hours will not look like newcomer (some of them don't wear serious equipment, to look more "innocent", trying to look noob).

If this will be achievable, that will be much better, than some visible "Carma" or other markings. All that markings and penalties could kill the realism that DayZ Developers try to maintain in the game. There always should be the factor of "not being sure" about player you've met.

Edited February 19, 2014 by super_shadow

[super_shadow 26]

No one should be penalized in any way for playing how they want to in a game that expressly encourages you to play how you want to.

Nobody have the right "play how he want" if that harms others. It's just shouldn't be penalized by game mechanics. There should be ways to make the life of unsocial person uncomfortable using resourses of other players. I mean Bounty Hunters institutes and other things that will be players choices and can be done, without forcing from game mechanics side.

Like in real life - if some person want to kill all around, ppl gather and start hunting the crazy person. Or hire some specialists for that job.

This way of solving PK problem got some problems (all this jumping servers, logging of any moment you want with character desappear - for example in "RUST" the char is sleaping, when player is offline. He easily can be found and killed). If the characters will stay in game for "sleep" when player is offline + in some way "chained" to server (maybe for some time idk for sure) + can be imprisoned for a period of few days (not just being handcuffed, but putted to some place from where he can't escape without help), that will make sence.

[theswedishcathead 59]

No please no he removed this becuase of realism reasons.

[Hethwill_Khan 233]

And what would I do if I want to play a soft talk, always smiling with a twinkle in the eye, sympathetic faced bastard son of a mountain goat... that will kill you eventually after getting your trust ?

 

My face would melt away ? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.....

 

C'mon... I'm your huckleberry... you ain't no daisy....

[fing24 36]

I love this topic. I can see both sides of the argument.  I like the freedom the game gives you which people want, and it is a game, but in real life when you are killed you don't come back to loot again which is the problem with a game. It would not be very good if the game ended when you died, but think how much more carefully you would play if that was the situation.  Would you want to get into a fire fight with some when you have a 50/50 chance of being killed your self for the food.  Co-operation or avoidance would work better for you in that situation than trying to KoS and you coming off worse may be.

There is a balance to be had within the game.  At the moment the fun is shooting other players as there is nothing else to do and there is no consequence for your action.  That is one of the biggest problem at the moment with the game.  It is not a survival game it is BF/CoD with a few zeds to get in the way. It might be a lot better when the zeds are much more dangerous and you don't want their attention and subsequent death which shooting would have a good chance of doing. Firing you gun should be the last resort, do or die situation.

We will see how the game develops over time.  Although they are in danger of making it more BF/CoD than a survival game if KoS stays at its current levels.  If I wanted a first person shooter I would have bought Cod/BF.  

[Sum Ting Wong 45]

At its current state, there's not much to be said already i guess about the game mechanics to steer how people act.

 

The game itself needs to be more unforgiving to the player. Which in time, i read, will be more of the case with more and groups of zombies with improved AI.

If players needs other (alive) people to survive, working together will be encouraged.

 

But overall i think it's due to this "disease" called individualism and the anonymosity of the interwebz how people act.

Plus that most other games are just brainless shoot to kill variants.

 

I'm in favor for anything to encourage players to stop killing on sight.

But i'm not sure about this humanity mechanic in it's present state, i'm sure there are other ways to achieve the same goal or somehow change the mechanic.

For instance, spawn very aggressive zombies to attack "bandits" on which they have a slim chance of survival alone.

[JuX 72]

The whole idea of adding humanity system is pretty pointless in DayZ standalone. You can customize your clothing much as you want,

so there aren't that strong indicators, but that isn't the main issue of the system. For one you can cheat it by spamming medical supplies

on friends and many people like myself often turned bandit within blink of an eye simply on self-defense or assisting someone in trouble.

 

As i have mentioned many time before on the forums. Kill-On-Sight isn't a problem, it's the players that aren't using their brains

and simply rush in recklessly on dangerous areas, not to mention many are silly enough to wear full military clothing and masks,

there by labeling themselves as bandits that have nothing left to do, then kill people.

 

 

Think most of Kill-on-Sight occurs in military bases and they are definitely locations where kill-on-sight is valid strategy.

They are high traffic locations where holding people up is unsafe and more likely to get you killed.

[Kintaro (DayZ) 11]

Please no humanity or karma system.

 

It's a post-apocalyptic world and is ruled by chaos.

 

If you want a safer world, do it yourself by gathering people and helping each others. Also when the construction system will be added, players will be able to build "safe" bases and maybe store stuff.

 

But like said before, it's a survival game and you have to use your brain, be sneaky, avoid problem, and sometime kill, and get killed.

[smacku2b 41]

As far as the humanity system goes, people will be more inclined to work together more when the zombies are actually a threat to be considered. Hordes of zombies, different types of zombies like runners, and just overall better AI is all going to be implemented in the game at a later time. When that happens there will be more opportunity to help other people, but right now killing other players is the only thing to do in the game. It's the whole point. You get guns, ammo, food, water, medical supplies, then what are you going to do? Just wonder around the barren map and kill the zombies that pose no threat at all? If that's what your playing the game for then maybe this isn't a game for you. I bought this game because I love survival games. Just being put in a world and the whole objective is just to survive, and part of survival is knowing who you can trust, which is where your friends list comes in to play. Everyone else is a potential threat. That's how it would be in a real life apocalypse, and that's how it should stay. You can tell who is going to be a shoot first person just by watching the way they play. If they got their gun out at a ready position, then it's a pretty safe bet they won't be friendly to you. Wise up a little bit or you may want to look into a different type of game.

[Karmaterror 982]

Probbably been said before, but too exploitable. I could have hero skin in 5 mins from neutral humanity in mod. Just work with a friend, let zeds damage him a bit then bloodbag, rinse and repeat ;)

[UnarmedCiv 54]

no humanity, i shouldnt be a bandit because im protecting myself..  I shouldnt be a hero because im healling my fellow bandits.