Psychological effects of trauma mechanic (logical and fair to all).

[crazykage 1063]

Fair warning: This is prolly gonna be a long read. Apologies ahead of time for grammar or misssspellings (see what i did there?). I am not, nor do I claim to be an English professor, major, or expert.

 

This idea is a proposal, and nothing more. The purpose is to encourage debate and disscussion about a mechanic that is realistic (would happen IRL), IF and how it should be implemented, and how to do so in a manner that is fair to all playstyles, while hopefully reducing the number of topics that routinely and daily appear on the same issue. Obviously many consider the concept valid, or so many wouldnt have posted the idea again and again (if not in a poorly thought out, rehashed manner).

 

MANY threads have allready been made about this subject. Recently, I made a thread (http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/175067-i-would-like-to-see-a-punisment-mechanic-for-those-that-dont-kill-enough-players/) that reverses the argument, pointing out the flaws of the argument and the manner in which it is typically proposed. I then challenged other forum goers to "...give me a logical, well thought out proposal, using facts, figures, and GENUINE ideas, on how such a system could be implemented, as well as to give me a logical reasoning as to WHY another player's behavior in game should be controlled in any way. AND to do it in a manner that is not rude, or insulting."

 

Well, I can hardly ask others to do a thing that I am not willing to do myself (one of the principals of Marine Corps Leadership), and having given a little thought to it, decided that if done right, and implemented in a manner that is fair and equal across the board, might (or MIGHT NOT) deepen the sense of immersion a player finds in game.

 

So what is the problem with a mechanic such as this? NOTHING. The game is in alpha, and we should be encouraging debate and discussion. The problem is not in the idea itself (although MOST topics proposing it have been given little thought), but in its motivation. WHY do some people want it? Every version of this idea I have seen proposed is done so out of selfishness. A desire to control or inhibit a particular style of gameplay, on PUBLIC servers. Many of the people who propose these ideas will tell you that KOSing needs to be controlled or inhibited, while in the same sentence telling you that their "idea" (rehashed version ad-infinium) doesnt limit or control you.

 

Nearly every one that I have seen has a title including one of the following or similar words: control, limit, inhibit, punish, stop, end, incentivise (non kos), discourage, cure, etc. ALL of these titles indicate a desire to implement a mechanic not born of a desire for realism, but rather for control of particular player behaviors (namely, killing on sight) that they personally dislike. Well, I am not here to debate anything about killing on sight, or not doing so. I am not proposing this idea to encourage or discourage any type of gameplay choices. I am proposing this in the hopes that the idea can finnally be give some serious consideration, motivated not by selfishness, but by a desire for realism and deeper in game immersion. That being said, let me begin with the ACTUAL proposal (this is not being made in the suggestions thread because I feel the idea needs discussion. It needs to be picked apart, analyzed, torn to pieces, put back together, lost, found, lost again, buried in peat for 6 months, and finnally recycled into fertalizer).

 

PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE GAME IS IN APLHA. MORE THINGS WILL EVENTUALLY BE ADDED. MANY THINGS IN THIS PROPOSAL MAY ASSUME THESE EVENTUAL THINGS (EX: MORE NUMEROUS/DANGEROUS ZOMBIES).

 

FEAR:

 

The single, greatest aspect of this game. The reason I keep coming back for more. ACTUAL feelings of paranoia, anticipation, adrenal rushes, etc. Can this aspect of the game, which allready exists (at least for me) despite the game only being in early alpha state, be enhanced? Can a psychological mehcanic be implemented that is fair to all, affect gameplay in a manner that ENHANCES it, and be done in a practical and viable manner? I think its possible. SO lets discuss it.

First, lets divide the discussion into two categories: STRESS (the physical/psychological effects themselves, that impact the player when experienced), and STRESSORS (events that CAUSE the effects).

 

So, what events in game, that the code can "detect" (or be made to detect), should cause the psychological effects (stressors)?

 

Being too close to a zombie.

Combat

Player interactions

Injury

Heights

extreme thirst

exteme hunger

sickness

exhaustion

general survival

other (suggestions?)

 

Zombies: If one spent too much time in close proximity to a zombie or zombies.

Combat: being caught up in player or zombie struggle. Bullet snaps (much louder IRL than you probably know. to the untrained, the sound can cause involuntary flinching, or, if impacting concrete, can debilitate the senses for brief periods), swinging melee weapons, etc. (scoping in on, and firing on a target should NOT be a stressor, but the target turning to return fire SHOULD)

 

Player Interactions: being handcuffed, force fed poisons or rotten fruit, having multiple guns pointing at you for periods of time.

 

Injury: severity of injury, time since infliction.

 

Heights: Being in a high place (high enought to cause injury or death if falling), and close to the edge. If no railing or other safety is in the way, standing on the vary edge of a tall building.

 

Extreme thirst/hunger: stress induced from lack of sufficient nourishment.

 

Sickness/exhaustion: stress induced from poor health or exhaustion.

 

General Survival: the act in and of itself could be said to be stressfull. a constant, but minimal effect.

 

Other: open for suggestions. (encountering dead bodies?)

 

Ok, so with a few CAUSES for the stress to consider, now I move on to the second section: STRESS.

 

What effects, which the player would experiance vicariously through the charater, could be inflicted (in varying degrees, depending on the intensity of the stressor), and how could they progress?

 

The shakes

Blurred vision

Tunnel vision

Hearing degradation

Increased healing time

Heavy breathing

Increased heartrate

Sweat

Other

 

The shakes: shaky vision, dificulty maintaining a steady aim

 

Blurred vision: vision becomes blurry
 

Tunnel vision: narrowed perspective, zooming in while reducing periphreal view, an effect of adrenaline. increased ability to maintain a steady aim
 

Hearing degradation: another effect of adrenaline, muted or "tin can" qualities.
 

Increased healing time: takes longer to recover from injury or illness, due to stress on body.

 

Heavy breathing: breathing becomes heavier, more intense, eventually to the point of gasping/gulping sounds, dificulty in maintaining a steady aim
 

Increased heartrate: heartrate increased, accomponied by an audiable sound (for the player) and dificulty in maintaining a steady aim

 

Sweat: causing damp or even wet clothes (easily caused by exhaustion due to constant physical activity), health concern
 

Other: suggestions?

 

Ok. So now to discuss how the symptoms should progress:

 

Any stressor could cause a stress reaction for the player. Depending on the severity of the stressor, effects would progress more slowly or quickly. As progression continues, some symptoms would dissapear with the onset of new symptoms.

 

Example: Mild to minimal stress caused by standing near the edge of a high drop off. Introduce a new stressor, say a bullet wizzing by, and the mild stress becomes more intense then either of the two stressors by themselves.

 

Being nearby a zombie for too long begins to cause panic (heavy breathing, sweat, heartrate). The longer one is exposed, the more intense the stress becomes.

 

Progression could be something like this:
 

increased heartrate/breathing (early stage, minimal stress)->sweating->the shakes (mid stage)->tunnel vision/hearing degradation (adrenal stage)->blurred vision/increased healing time (burnout stage).

 

In the beggining stage, stress in minimal, and recovery is quick. progressing to the mid stage, our player is badly frightened, rapidly becoming more stressed and nervous. Next, in the adrenal stage, the character is outright terrified, and a flight or fight response is simulated by an adrenaline rush. The adrenal stage could bring with it certain benifits: increased accuracy (weapon sway reduced, simulation of increased reaction times), increased running speed, and a reduced initial reaction to injury are all plausible effects of being in this stage. But the adrenal stage should be short lived, and lead to the next: In the burnout stage, the character is beggining to buckle and break down. Dramatic loss of weapon accuracy, blurred vision, slowed movement, increaded healing time as well as increased reaction to injury all compound in a stress loop. The longer one is in the last stage the longer the effects will last, compounding on one another exponentially. Too much time spent in the final stage, or experiancing it too often, would result in negative psychological effects represented by the following effects (suggestions welcome here, as everywhere else): sudden, flitting shadows, vague blurry white spots, noises (footsteps, muttering, rustling sounds, etc.)

 

MITIGATION:

 

well, how can a player counter the fear that is forced on him by the implementation of such a mechanic? Well, time spent away from any stressors would certainly help, as well as certain circumstances or activities, such as eating a meal, eating a COOKED meal, sitting near a camp fire, reading a book, etc. ALSO a shot of morphine would help to dramaticly calm the nerves very quickly (possible addiction mechanic?).

 
In addition, constant, leveled exposure to stressors could cause a character to "harden" or "toughen up". As the character is alive longer, the effects of stressors become lessened (be sure to prevent deliberate exposure, like standing on a cliff for a long time to "level up"). In addition, players could find an adrenaline shot to shoot themselves instantly to the adrenal stage and gain its benifits, at the cost of potentially reaching burn out stage if not carefull.

 

 

Thats all i have time for now. I have only a few minutes to get to class. I look forward to further discussion on the matter. Please keep it civil folks. I will be back in a few hours to re-evaluate my post, add new thoughts, and further contribute to what i hope to be a good discussion.

 

PEACE.

 

 

 

 

[hotcakes 348]

What would this complicated stuff do besides annoy people?

[Nicko2580 398]

Heh, I am already stressed enough while playing this game. I get the shakes, increased heart rate, paranoia, genuine fear and anxiety myself, especially when I know other players are around or a zombie surprises me. All of that translates to it being harder to aim (since my hands are shaking on the mouse) harder to think tactically etc etc. Not sure that we need these mechanics to simulate something that a lot of us already feel while playing. 

I really feel that the amount of systems that 'force' reactions from players should be left to a very, very bare minimum in DayZ.

[antonioajc 500]

I need a TL;DR of this.

Edited February 18, 2014 by AntonioAJC

[dethsupport 110]

Although this was well written and thought out I am against this idea - first it seems far too complex to bother being implemented containing far too many variables when there are several better features that need focusing on.

 

Second, (and admittedly probably a better point) not everyone is susceptible to stress and fear the same way as others. Some people are deathly afraid of spiders, while others have them as pets. Sure there may be people who would be haunted from killing someone, or paranoid because of the moans of the infected but then you must look at the other side of the spectrum - people that have survived long enough they are numb to this and feel nothing. Or even those that feel gleeful euphoria and the thought/feeling of murdering puts them in the greatest bliss. I assume from your avatar you are or were a Marine so you should know that some people piss themselves when they receive IDF and cower under the concrete barriers, while others have rock hard boners and run with their SAW to the berm hoping to mow a motherfucker down.

[minime1000 78]

I really do not like a game deciding for me what I should be feeling. Hardcore mode is already pretty immersive.

Imo, only physical effects should be added (ears ringing after a gunshot near your ears, etc.) but nothing psychological.

Edited February 18, 2014 by myshl0ng

[Martmital 436]

Being exposed to the situation repeatedly should minimize the effect.

 

Jumping out a plane is terrifying the first time, repeated jumps get much easier.

 

Still a crap idea though...

[pale1776 375]

Well there was a game I had on the original XBox, Call of Cthuku, and if you saw to much bad stuff or did it, then youd use your current weapon and even your bare hands to kill yourself.

Maybe not add it to that extent, youd probly spawn thirsty and kill yourself, but something similiar.

[Zjasuu 337]

I think this game is about what the player feels, not what the game wants you to feel.

[akafugitive 244]

I have thought about how this could be done myself as an enhancement and I've come to the conclusion that it can't beat the feelings you actually get from playing the game. If the system detected zombie proximity, players who have done negative actions, etc. It would take away from the uneasy feeling you have naturally because you could just watch for game indicators.

Edited February 18, 2014 by akafugitive

[janol 65]

I've been half waiting for a suggestion like this. Something on these lines would be nice. But it should be implemented with fairly soft hand.

 

Also (as OP too suggested), the effects should considerably lessen with time, or with exposure - hence giving a logical reason to survive longer.

 

To all those saying that they don't want the game to decide what they should be feeling: well, it isn't you who feels, it's your character. Psychology is as much part of the real world as bodily damage or hunger. Why don't you then mind about the game deciding when "you" are hungry?

Edited February 19, 2014 by janol

[dethsupport 110]

Why don't you then mind about the game deciding when "you" are hungry?

All the munching makes me hungry in real life and I tend to eat fruit, rice or tuna while playing.

[Nicko2580 398]

I've been half waiting for a suggestion like this. Something on these lines would be nice. But it should be implemented with fairly soft hand.

 

Also (as OP too suggested), the effects should considerably lessen with time, or with exposure - hence giving a logical reason to survive longer.

 

To all those saying that they don't want the game to decide what they should be feeling: well, it isn't you who feels, it's your character. Psychology is as much part of the real world as bodily damage or hunger. Why don't you then mind about the game deciding when "you" are hungry?

There are certain things which are a requirement in a survival game. 

Hunger. Thirst. Wounds. Sickness and symptoms of. You have to have these otherwise there is no survival game and you're just a camera floating around a landscape. 

These are the minimum systems but also I think they should be the maximum systems. I don't want other arbitrary things prompting me to do stuff. What if my character is a hardcore veteran who's been shooting zeds in the head since the outbreak? Why should he get scared when he's near one, especially if he's kitted up the wazoo?

The less systems that are forced on the player the better for the game in my opinion. I already experience all the things such as fear, anxiety etc IRL while I am playing - that's far more authentic than an arbitrary system that's forced on me whether I want it or not.

[crazykage 1063]

Ok. Thanks people for continuing the discussion in a mature manner.

 

Most seem to be against the idea, primarily because they do not want the game to, in  a sense, dictate "how they feel". Which is fair and valid.

 

But, I proposed the idea, and I have to give it its just due, and attempt to defend it (kinda playing devil's advocate, but at the same time, not entirely opposed to the idea either).

 

So my argument for it is this:

 

There is something to be said for "atmosphere". The first time I logged in and heard rain drizzling, I thought, "niiiiiice...". It was followed up by a flashing epic FLASH of a lightning bolt (which scared the piss out of me, as I wasn't expecting it), and the ensuing blast of thunder. I was almost instantly sucked into the moment of the game, deeply immersed from that simple, atmospheric effect (gameplay was enhanced). Of course, this was just after the update that caused the huge memory leak, so it didn't last long.

 

Other games in the horror genre attempt to do something similar (some succeed and others don't) by projecting a specific atmosphere. Sounds of heavy breathing, increased heartbeat, dynamic character animations, combined with a visual art style designed to instill fear or paranoia (shadows, certain configuration of angles and shapes, dark colors, etc). As said, not all games are able to pull it off correctly, but when they do, they can create an experience that is rich and immersive. And this is not exclusive to horror games. 

 

So, could it not be said that certain dynamic effects, brought on by compounding events in game, would, if done right and with some subtlety, enhance the "atmospheric" sensation? As you sneak (assume zombies that don't agro thru buildings, from 500 meters away facing away from you) up on a zombie, the game code detects this, and veeeery subtly narrows your field of view (tunnel vision), plays an audio track of a steadily increasing heart rate, as you get closer and closer, then *WHACK! the zombie goes down, and the tunnel vision reverses while your heart rate slows until it is no longer audible.

 

OR you miss, it turns and sees you, then lunges for the attack. SUDDENLY your heart rate skyrockets, you are breathing heavily (again, this is assuming more dynamic, dangerous, zombies than what we have currently), panicked and scared, now its fight or flight. 

 

EDIT: also assumes 1stPP only....

Edited February 19, 2014 by Crazykage

[minime1000 78]

Why don't you then mind about the game deciding when "you" are hungry?

Because hunger is physical. I am completely okay with that and other physical effects.

I am okay with my leg breaking after falling down. I am not okay with my character fainting when seeing blood (it is realistic because some people do fain at the sight of blood) because I am not one of those people.

 

Physical effects are largely the same across all people. Psychological effects vary a lot.

Edited February 19, 2014 by myshl0ng

[janol 65]

These are the minimum systems but also I think they should be the maximum systems. I don't want other arbitrary things prompting me to do stuff. What if my character is a hardcore veteran who's been shooting zeds in the head since the outbreak? Why should he get scared when he's near one, especially if he's kitted up the wazoo?

 

 

 

Well, your character isn't any more of a veteran than any other, unless he actually has survived for long in game. The breakout was quite recent, and the fact that he starts out like anyone else strongly suggests that he isn't any different.

 

 

 

Physical effects are largely the same across all people. Psychological effects vary a lot.

 

Not fully true, for there are fairly constant psychological factors. And more over, there are huge individual differences in physiological factors too! Of course psychological effects do vary in their strength - as do physiological ones - but this is exactly why this sort thing should be implemented with soft touch.

[akafugitive 244]

I don't think it's a matter of not wanting it because I don't want the game to dictate how I feel, no game mechanic can create the feeling that already exists without one. For me personally, it's a matter of knowing the game won't be intuitive enough to know when you have actually seen something to trigger these stress events from happening, making them become a crutch.

For example if suddenly when I'm inside a building and a stress event triggers I know something is on the other side of the wall and will be prepared for it, since currently that doesn't happen, when u round the corner and just see a dark figure I end up with an "oh crap" moment(is it a zombie, player, did it see me... oh, it's a bush)

Edited February 19, 2014 by akafugitive