Persistent storage containers; do you like the idea or not?

[louist 163]

Actually you do get perma-death in this game. Your character and your precious gear that you fed to the bandits are dead and looted. Sure you can click respawn but your character is a totally new fresh character and your last character is still permanently dead and will never be back. Just because you as a player aren't perma-dead doesn't mean that your character isn't/wasn't. Sure you can apply your own knowledge as a person to the game i.e. knowing where loot spawns, how to navigate etc. but that doesn't change the fact you're on a new character.

Need some proof? Each time you respawn you're a new little pup washed up on shore with clothes, a battery and flashlight having nothing to do with your old character except looks.

Need more (very solid) proof? Randomized blood typing per life. If my new character wasn't truly a new character my blood would always be the same meaning if I died as O- and respawned I'd still be O-. That isn't the case as my old character is dead and gone forever.

Back on topic - I say no to persistent storage containers, inventory space is an integral part of the game, and storage containers remove that piece. There is no reason you need to carry 600 rounds of ammunition, 5 full mags, 30 cans of food and four water bottles. Having to choose what to keep and what to toss will make the game tougher, especially as more items are needed to survive Chernarus. Survival items like the portable gas stove, fuel containers, cooking pots, firewood, stones, matches etc. having proper uses will force you to really think and have some foresight.

Regardless, persistent storages are already somewhat in the game, you can fill a backpack with your hoarded crap and stash it somewhere. The frequent server resets are the only reason people don't really utilize this method now. Once loot respawns and everything stabilizes resets will happen less frequently and may save the location and status of items currently spawned which would make the current loot technically persistent - therefore you can probably leave a stashed backpack somewhere for weeks and its location and contents would be saved normally.

I'm still against the idea of hoarding though - makes inventory management less of an issue which makes the game easier.

I'll concede the point about blood types. But not the rest of your evidence, for one simple reason: if you died, but your group survived, they just guard your gear until you return. If you truly were a completely new person, they'd shoot you as some random scavenger.

Waking up on the beach or no, you are functionally immortal. You know where you died, how you died, and can run right back to your corpse and/or group to recover what you lost. Rogue-likes, and RPGs with iron man modes, make real use of a perma-death mechanic by deleting your save and/or presenting you with a new randomized world. In those games, you truly are a new character.. I am not suggesting that DayZ become that kind of game; obviously introducing those mechanics are impossible. I'm just pointing out why perma-death works for some games but won't for DayZ, and we really should find a more appropriate term for what occurs here.

As for tents: we're going to have persistent underground bases, which will presumably NOT be deleted when you die. Tents, in my eyes, would just be a more exposed, easily robbed, poor-man's equivalent.

[DMentMan 707]

i want this, but there would be problems how it would work i think.

[Chawktah 43]

I think persistent storage is an important addition to the game. It seems reasonable to believe that it will all be server side, so you could have player-created structures and stash areas on multiple servers. All that sounds great.

 

I feel like the thing that needs to be worked is the value of surviving. They need to implement a skill system or something similar to really make surviving an important element. Skills that become learn-able with experience from completing tasks like bandaging/healing other characters, building structures, repairing vehicles, killing zombies and murdering other survivors. For example, healing/reviving other players could go towards skills that might reduce the time it takes to perform bandaging / defibing / giving an IV/transfusion.. Killing zombies might give experience usable to increase melee damage/speed. I feel like a skill set unique to each survivor that are losable upon death would really add depth to the game. Having killed a lot of other survivors might then unlock the ability to cannibalize, idk.. I just feel like there needs to be more incentive to actually survive. 

[-MadTommy 367]

Some interesting discussions here.  

 

My conclusion:

 

• Storage containers should be small, too small to store weapons.
• All other gear should become ruined upon players death.  The containers / bases remain, but the loot contents are ruined upon death.

 

I want storage to be useful but want death to mean you have to start afresh.

 

I want the game to be tough & death to be brutal; this is what makes it rewarding. 

Edited February 19, 2014 by MadTommy

[glemmar 88]

Some interesting discussions here.  

 

My conclusion:

 

• Storage containers should be small, too small to store weapons.
• All other gear should become ruined upon players death.  The containers / bases remain, but the loot contents are ruined upon death.

 

I want storage to be useful but want death to mean you have to start afresh.

 

I want the game to be tough & death to be brutal; this is what makes it rewarding. 

 

Not being able to store weapons would make no sense. What would make even less sense is that if you die all the items in your containers would become ruined instantly.

Lets say I follow some guy for hours back to his stash and while he starts going through his containers I kill him. When I move in to check what delicious loot my hard work had earned me I would notice to my disappointment that everything is ruined because the owner of those containers is dead.

What would be a much better solution would be that the items in his containers would start to deteriorate at increased speed.

[louist 163]

Some interesting discussions here.

My conclusion:

• Storage containers should be small, too small to store weapons.
• All other gear should become ruined upon players death. The containers / bases remain, but the loot contents are ruined upon death.

I want storage to be useful but want death to mean you have to start afresh.

I want the game to be tough & death to be brutal; this is what makes it rewarding.

I don't like the "all items become ruined" idea. If I'm starving with nothing but an axe (which seems to be the case in full servers) and manage to take someone out, I'd like to get my hands on his beans. And the fully upgraded M4 that everyone I kill tends to have.

[Karmaterror 982]

If the camp dies when the player dies there is no point to building the camp whatsoever. The whole point is that you can go to a relitivley safe place to regear because you put in the effort in the previous life.

 

Think about it this way...your survivor has perma death. But when you create a camp you are creating another entity. That entity can survive independent of your toon, but it also has perma death if someone trashes it. They are even exposed to KOS, for example someone could level your tents just for the fun....not even to take your gear.

 

Also this is a persistant world. If we start deleting camps when players die then its not persistant at all....should we also delete cars you've fixed (when they come ofc) because hey you could just run back and regear? :P

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

I don't like the "all items become ruined" idea. If I'm starving with nothing but an axe (which seems to be the case in full servers) and manage to take someone out, I'd like to get my hands on his beans. And the fully upgraded M4 that everyone I kill tends to have.

 

..if you find his stash....

..and if he kept his M4 in his stash, he would have somethign else with him I guess...

 

 

which leads me to:

 

Not being able to store weapons would make no sense. What would make even less sense is that if you die all the items in your containers would become ruined instantly.

Lets say I follow some guy for hours back to his stash and while he starts going through his containers I kill him. When I move in to check what delicious loot my hard work had earned me I would notice to my disappointment that everything is ruined because the owner of those containers is dead.

What would be a much better solution would be that the items in his containers would start to deteriorate at increased speed.

 

To small to store guns (like a buried protector case): Au contraire, I'd think it's very good. You have to think what you want to store. a pistol an a mag or food and a can opener? Or, in the future, crafting materials for let's say, a bow? Or better have matchboxes and a raincoat to avoid death by sickness due rain? ;)

 

Or alternative: Your stash stays after your death on the server, lootable for everyone....but you. You don't see it. (Not perfect because of group play etc., but the middle way between everything gone and nothing happens after your death...)

[-MadTommy 367]

Lets say I follow some guy for hours back to his stash and while he starts going through his containers I kill him. When I move in to check what delicious loot my hard work had earned me I would notice to my disappointment that everything is ruined because the owner of those containers is dead.

What would be a much better solution would be that the items in his containers would start to deteriorate at increased speed.

 

I think you are right, apart from the weapons part.  No primary weapons, storage boxes that are 4x4 only.

 

Having loot degrade over time would work for me.  The gear could stay 'fresh' when the player is not on the server.. when the player is on the server and has been killed since he made the stash their loot deteriorates at a fast rate.  This would allow people to raid others' loot but restrict the hoarding of gear and reduce the effect upon the perma-death roll that is so important to the game.

 

It will be interesting to see what the Dev team decide upon.  I'd be gutted if the old tents from the mod were copied.

 

The bottom line for me is if 'permanent storage' kills the perma-death of the standalone I'd don't want any permanent storage system.  I hope they can work together.

Edited February 19, 2014 by MadTommy

[glemmar 88]

I think you are right, apart from the weapons part.  No primary weapons, storage boxes that are 4x4 only.

 

I should have been more specific what I meant with

 

Not being able to store weapons would make no sense.

I agree that a buried protector case or similar should not be able to hold an assault rifle or anything big, but if you for example dig a hole, reinforce it with some logs and cover it with sticks/branches and tarp/camo netting, then that should be big enough to store a couple of weapons or few bigger items. Of course this sort of stash should cause some degradation on the items in it over time.

Of course building such a thing would require few tools and some materials.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Klemingway

[Karmaterror 982]

 

The bottom line for me is if 'permanent storage' kills the perma-death of the standalone I'd don't want any permanent storage system.  I hope they can work together.

 

I have to disagree with that. Your camp is separate from your toon. But both have perma death, is actually more annoying to loose a weeks worth of basebuilding in seconds than to be KOS'd lol :)

[pacific_coast 632]

backback/tent that follows you across the public hive?

 

kinda makes "you are dead" pointless.

 

RESPAWN AT YOUR STORAGE OR GTFO

[fundan@gmx.de 82]

Some interesting discussions here.  

 

My conclusion:

 

• Storage containers should be small, too small to store weapons.
• All other gear should become ruined upon players death.  The containers / bases remain, but the loot contents are ruined upon death.

 

I want storage to be useful but want death to mean you have to start afresh.

 

I want the game to be tough & death to be brutal; this is what makes it rewarding. 

 

This!

 

Problem with being able to store weapons and it being "deleted" on death is that everybody can have a perma-stash for 20 bucks. (read use a second account that does nothing but store things and never goes somewhere unsafe)

[Valadain 270]

Source?

 

Go to steam. Look up DayZ. Scroll down to Development Road map.

[HazZarD87 166]

Funny how some people seem to believe that tent's will magically spit out uber-gear for anyone that comes back to one after a respawn. You'll have to stock 'em first. And unlike your toon they're going to be on the server 24-7. Exposed all the time. It's not a question of IF it will get plundered but WHEN. And again you will lose far more from the raid on your camp than you could ever lose on your toon.

 

Just accept that it will be here.

[Highlander007 249]

What perma-death feeling?

hahaha lol. dat perma death feelin

Edited February 21, 2014 by Highlander007

[over9000nukez 199]

well as soon as someone finds your tent that's gonna be their tent as well, and you'll start to notice missing things every day :P

 

also they could destroy your tent if they wanted to with like 3 left mouse button clicks with an axe.

[Kukui 13]

Base building is going to be added to the game at some point, just like in the mod. This is a small step towards that. You may not like the idea, but it's going to happen. It was part of DayZ in the mod, it is going to be part of it in the SA.

 

EDIT: It's not like, if put in this situation, you would not seek shelter and store stuff there.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Kukui

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I think some of you are reading into the word persistent too much.  I believe it's going to be persistent through server restarts, because servers will restart eventually, but upon death, you should lose your tent and items.

 

Persistent + perma-death = oxymoron 

[Chawktah 43]

Ermm, having a tent or hidden bag or whatever get ruined just because you died? Yea, not gonna happen.

 

They said there will be item degradation over time, and I'm assuming only things like food or batteries... Maybe other things when they implement the whole repair system for ruined gear.

[Karmaterror 982]

I think some of you are reading into the word persistent too much.  I believe it's going to be persistent through server restarts, because servers will restart eventually, but upon death, you should lose your tent and items.

 

Persistent + perma-death = oxymoron 

 

If we loose them when we die.....whats the incentive for making it?

 

 

To me there would be literally no point to any basebuilding if its tied to my toon, it would only be an extended inventory. The whole point is that you don't have to go to a high traffic area to gear again, that was what you spent the last week stocking for lol

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

If we loose them when we die.....whats the incentive for making it?

 

 

To me there would be literally no point to any basebuilding if its tied to my toon, it would only be an extended inventory. The whole point is that you don't have to go to a high traffic area to gear again, that was what you spent the last week stocking for lol

Don't die?  If this is the direction they are going then they may as well rename the game from DayZ to ARMA lite.  Also, there has been confirmation on what kind of base bnuilding will be put into the game outside of barricading houses already in game

[Karmaterror 982]

Don't die?  If this is the direction they are going then they may as well rename the game from DayZ to ARMA lite.  Also, there has been confirmation on what kind of base bnuilding will be put into the game outside of barricading houses already in game

 

Don't die is already the goal lol....basebuilding needs to add something. Don't forget aswell that having some safe(ish)...because its never 100% safe loot will promote player interaction. How would persistant storage after death be anyting like arma lite? I don't understand that. Arma never had placeable storage in the base game, that was all custom scripted for Dayz mod.

 

This SA will take a lot from the MOD. Tents should function almost identically because it creates more styles of play. Camp hunters will emerge, basebuilders will go to work. But if it all gets deleted then there is no point whatsoever, may aswell just carry your inventory gear if its gonna be like that lol :)

[pillock 850]

Don't die is already the goal lol....basebuilding needs to add something. Don't forget aswell that having some safe(ish)...because its never 100% safe loot will promote player interaction. How would persistant storage after death be anyting like arma lite? I don't understand that. Arma never had placeable storage in the base game, that was all custom scripted for Dayz mod.

 

This SA will take a lot from the MOD. Tents should function almost identically because it creates more styles of play. Camp hunters will emerge, basebuilders will go to work. But if it all gets deleted then there is no point whatsoever, may aswell just carry your inventory gear if its gonna be like that lol :)

 

 

I think the point is that when you die, you should be back to square one. If you can recover your old gear in a "new life", then death is reduced to a minor inconvenience, rather than the disaster it probably should be. What's the point in introducing all these complicated medical dynamics if it's probably easier to just respawn and run back to your loot? Keeping your character alive - the whole survival objective - becomes meaningless.

 

There is still a purpose to basebuilding, even if you can't go back to it after death: you can go back to it as long as you stay alive. Every time you log on to that server (if they're persistent in one server only), you can go there and add more loot to your storage and make improvements to the structure. But when you die, you should lose it - you have to keep youself alive if you want to progress, because it's a survival game. If you die, you've failed, and you must start again.

[Window Licker 504]

Better idea would be for dead players dropping coordinates to their stashes. Be it all locations or a % of their locations (if they have more than 1). This way, the player killing them will have the chance to search their body and find out their stash locations. Reward for killing and looting rather than just killing and moving along. 

 

It will also allow time for the party that got the coordinates to head to the stash and gain the reward.The dead player will also have the choice of going back and see for themselves if they still have the loot or if its been sucked dry. 

 

Not only that, but players might be deterred to just go gun blazing into places. They may let that lone player go in the chance another group will hear and come investigate.

 

That imo would be a better system. 

The only gripe I'd have with this system is that KoS would skyrocket at that point because all you have to do is shoot someone and you get their entire stash, where as right now you'll get some gear but most of it ruined, I'm not arguing against KoS I just think this would cause it to rise to unprecedented levels.

 

Item degradation, I feel should be implemented, and done server side once a stash has only ruined gear in it then it should be wiped by the server as clean up, this I believe would help keep the performance up instead of keeping Jailbird Jimmies stuff safe while serving he's 8-10 and lagging the access or whatever the downside would be to having an overblown database is.

 

As far as primary weapons, I'm a bit 50/50 on that, half of me would love a stash that lets me regear instantly, the other half of me calls me a lazy fucker, I'm currently of the thinking that only secondary weapons should be stored in the stash, I'd also love to see an item repair system, that would allow the restoration of the badly damaged scope's, attachments etc so they can be used but have to find a bunch of them. So having a stash for those while I was finding enough of them/the parts needed to restore would be a secondary use for the stash.

 

The other thing to take into consideration would be down the line with base building, if the stash follows you from server to server then certain (all) clan's would have their players go individually onto separate servers and loot the crap out of them, place the items in their personal stashes and pickup all they can carry before jumping back to the clan server.  This would rape other servers of their resources extremely quickly and only players in an organized clan would have access to higher end content in that form.  Although in saying that I don't believe that a group of random players on a single server would actually band together long enough to get past a rudimentary base.

 

To sum up, yes but depends on implementation, Item degradation is a must and while I hate to say it for the long term good limited to a single server.