Personal feelings of military weapons (and future weapons) in this game

[Rudette 435]

I just want to dress like a mad-max style scrap-metal armored post-apoc savage and shoot at people with a bow, is that a crime?!

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rudette

[Valadain 270]

Wait, don't we just need a wood workbench and some scrap metal just to make an M4.  I mean, we don't need any machinery to bore with or an engine lathe......

 

Actually, yeah that is all you need, so long as your scrap metal comes from another M4.

[Valadain 270]

I just want to dress like a mad-max style scrap-metal armored post-apoc savage and shoot at people with a bow, is that a crime?!

 

Yes, actually, the fashion police will be with you shortly. Don't resist.

[Rudette 435]

Yes, actually, the fashion police will be with you shortly. Don't resist.

Then they shall taste my blade.

[soulfirez 901]

I just want to dress like a mad-max style scrap-metal armored post-apoc savage and shoot at people with a bow, is that a crime?!

A crime no, hell i give beanz just for the mad max refrence....

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

I agree. Making weapons beyond a simple spear or club is realistically beyond the scope of 90% of the population. There was a reason societies had specialized weapon-makers. Making something that would not only work, but stand up to repeated usage is actually rather difficult if you don't know what you are doing.

 

I know how to make percussion caps, but I am unsure if they would work in place of primers on a modern brass cartridge. The principles are the same, but I still don't know if it would work...

the hardest part of a percussion cap is also the hardest part of a primer, the stable pressure sensitive explosive, if you have the skills to make one you can probably make the other, just a matter of shape.

 

Forming brass while not impossible for someone with the know how in a small shop, is simply not viable, a lot of machining would have to be done just to make the proper presses for the brass. There is also the problem of heating and annealing the brass after every step. Given that brass can be re used a number of times, rifle brass at least 4-5 times, pistol brass at least 10-12, with some cartridges doing significantly better, and lower pressure loads extending the life of the brass, it would probably be unnecessary to do it .

 

Good move he will argue day is night and refrence solar flares as smoke screens.. He has watched videos on making a musket ( hey i have actually made a home made cannon but before i started i knew the pressure rating of the pipe in a scavenge situation you wouldnt so you are very likely to blow the pipe apart hurting yourself but trust me he will argue in circles till you just submit...

 

He still didnt provide a recipe for gun powder or how easy it would be to make find in eastern europe for average joe but it will come trust me it will come..

Please remember that the manufacture of explosives is tightly regulated in most places, DON'T DO IT. Also remember that the manufacture of explosives is dangerous DON'T DO IT.

 

In my locality manufacturing black powder for personal sporting or recreational use is not regulated.

 

As to a recipe for black powder

 

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html

 

I have hard copies of many books on the subject of black powder and firearms in general, as well as books on the subject of other explosives such as pressure sensitive explosives and smokeless powder

 

I am not going to tell you how to make a pressure sensitive explosive, it's dangerous and illegal in many places and I don't want some idiot blowing himself up on my conscious. While manufacturing smokeless powder is less dangerous it is  still capable of killing or maiming you and may be illegal depending on where you live, given your obvious lack of intellect giving you even that would worry me.

 

Keep in mind that just about any explosive with the proper properties can stand in for the more common forms of gun powder.

 

 

Now I know what you are thinking, how on earth would you find what you need after an apocalypse? Well potassium nitrate AKA saltpeter can be found in the ground under decomposing bodies (can't imagine where I would find those) or in decomposing manure and urine, and can be strained and refined with everyday household means. Humans have been getting it for a long time, the oldest recorded process for complete purification was written in 1270. I would hope that even you can figure out charcoal on your own. Combine the two in the correct proportions and you have black powder, no you don't actually need sulfur. The sulfur lowers the flashpoint and creates the massive cloud of smoke, great if you are stuck with a flint lock, not so great if you have a percussion ignition system.

 

 

Wait, don't we just need a wood workbench and some scrap metal just to make an M4.  I mean, we don't need any machinery to bore with or an engine lathe......

I have an engine lathe, 16x48, and a universal (horizontal and vertical) mill with a 5' bed along with a generator that can power both.

 

You joke, but there are plenty of people out there with all they need to make whatever they need.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Franchi

[soulfirez 901]

the hardest part of a percussion cap is also the hardest part of a primer, the stable pressure sensitive explosive, if you have the skills to make one you can probably make the other, just a matter of shape.

 

Forming brass while not impossible for someone with the know how in a small shop, is simply not viable, a lot of machining would have to be done just to make the proper presses for the brass. There is also the problem of heating and annealing the brass after every step. Given that brass can be re used a number of times, rifle brass at least 4-5 times, pistol brass at least 10-12, with some cartridges doing significantly better, and lower pressure loads extending the life of the brass, it would probably be unnecessary to do it .

 

Please remember that the manufacture of explosives is tightly regulated in most places, DON'T DO IT. Also remember that the manufacture of explosives is DANGEROUS DON'T DO IT.

 

 

As to a recipe for black powder

 

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html

 

I have hard copies of many books on the subject of black powder and firearms in general, as well as books on the subject of other explosives such as pressure sensitive explosives and smokeless powder

 

I am not going to tell you how to make a pressure sensitive explosive, it's dangerous and I don't want some idiot blowing himself up on my conscious. While manufacturing smokeless powder is less dangerous it is  still capable of killing or maiming you, given your obvious lack of intellect giving you even that would worry me.

 

Keep in mind that just about any explosive with the proper properties can stand in for the more common forms of gun powder.

 

 

Now I know what you are thinking, how on earth would you find what you need after an apocalypse? Well potassium nitrate AKA saltpeter can be found in the ground under decomposing bodies (can't imagine where I would find those) or in manure and urine, and can be strained and refined with everyday household means. Humans have been getting it for a long time, the oldest recorded process for complete purification was written in 1270. I would hope that even you can figure out charcoal on your own.

 

 

I have an engine lathe, 16x48, and a universal (horizontal and vertical) mill with a 5' bed along with a generator that can power both.

 

You joke, but there are plenty of people out there with all they need to make whatever they need.

There are plenty of people out there with all they need to make what they want ?? In a poor ex soviet rural area ?? oh i know the basic recipe for gun powder i even know what sulfer looks like ( where id find it in the area would be another question) as for salt pewter i wouldnt know it if i fell over a pile of it ( i was talking average joe and there is no internet in a apoc lol)

 

As for the home made cannon highly illegal here but i live in regional WA closet cop is about 30 km away ;) and even having reaserched how to do it knowing the stress levels of my materials my first firing was still done with me hiding behind a limestone wall ( good move as i didnt tie or weight down the cannon and the blast flung it back with a fair bit of force...

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 

 

I have an engine lathe, 16x48, and a universal (horizontal and vertical) mill with a 5' bed along with a generator that can power both.

 

You joke, but there are plenty of people out there with all they need to make whatever they need.

I was making fun of Rust  :P

 

Which I hope they don't go to that extent in crafting weapons and items....  :|

Edited February 27, 2014 by Caboose187

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

There are plenty of people out there with all they need to make what they want ?? In a poor ex soviet rural area ?? oh i know the basic recipe for gun powder i even know what sulfer looks like ( where id find it in the area would be another question) as for salt pewter i wouldnt know it if i fell over a pile of it ( i was talking average joe and there is no internet in a apoc lol)

 

As for the home made cannon highly illegal here but i live in regional WA closet cop is about 30 km away ;) and even having reaserched how to do it knowing the stress levels of my materials my first firing was still done with me hiding behind a limestone wall ( good move as i didnt tie or weight down the cannon and the blast flung it back with a fair bit of force...

I can point you to three buildings in the SA that feature lathes about the size of mine. A serviceable smooth-bore black powder firearm could easily be made with those, with very little skill, even without electricity.

 

As I said you do not need sulfur, it is used to lower the flashpoint, it does contribute a bit to the explosive force but is not a necessary ingredient, I explained how to get the other ingredients from readily available sources in any location.

 

Why is there this accepted idea that everyone with skills died?

Edited February 27, 2014 by Franchi

[Valadain 270]

I can point you to three buildings in the SA that feature lathes about the size of mine. A serviceable smooth-bore black powder firearm could easily be made with those, with very little skill, even without electricity.

 

As I said you do not need sulfur, it is used to lower the flashpoint, it does contribute a bit to the explosive force but is not a necessary ingredient, I explained how to get the other ingredients from readily available sources in any location.

 

"with very little skill" is false. You would really need to know what you are doing to get the whole thing firing right, unless you are directly lighting the powder, which is also a bit tricky. If we were talking ten to twenty years after, maybe people would be picking up these kind of skills through a lot of trial and error.

[soulfirez 901]

I can point you to three buildings in the SA that feature lathes about the size of mine. A serviceable smooth-bore black powder firearm could easily be made with those, with very little skill, even without electricity.

 

As I said you do not need sulfur, it is used to lower the flashpoint, it does contribute a bit to the explosive force but is not a necessary ingredient, I explained how to get the other ingredients from readily available sources in any location.

 

Why is there this accepted idea that everyone with skills died?

Yes yes but your not average Joe are you and you have researched the idea.... the machine shop building yeah sure but it would become a rather common death trap sitting in there try to craft weapons both from zeds and bandits...  I again point out average joe with no experience tto start with after time could learn to fashion a bow of some use where as without having or been given knoledge as this has no chance of making weapons and powder..

 

You keep missing the average joe part...

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

Yes yes but your not average Joe are you and you have researched the idea.... the machine shop building yeah sure but it would become a rather common death trap sitting in there try to craft weapons both from zeds and bandits...  I again point out average joe with no experience tto start with after time could learn to fashion a bow of some use where as without having or been given knoledge as this has no chance of making weapons and powder..

 

You keep missing the average joe part...

 

Why is there this accepted idea that everyone with skills died?

[soulfirez 901]

Why is there this accepted idea that everyone with skills died?

1% of the population survives a random 1% and we dont all seem that friendly shit you cant trust a guy when you have food and now i am sitting down with an unknown person and teaching him skills he can use to kill me???

 

What percent of people in the population have these skills to start with then do the math and figure what chance that many of them do survive and then figure the chance they live long enough in the apoc to pass on the skills.....

 

Common sense wow it doesnt need bold letters when it spits the dummy...

[Valadain 270]

Why is there this accepted idea that everyone with skills died?

 

Who said that? Stop using the "for realism" argument and just say you want something and people will probably stop pointing out to you how unlikely it is that someone would have the extremely specialized skill of musket manufacturing.

[gibonez 3633]

I was making fun of Rust  :P

 

Which I hope they don't go to that extent in crafting weapons and items....  :|

 

Yea the crafting in Rust can get rediculous such as crafting m4s and modern shotguns.

 

I think since then they have removed all of the military weapons or atleast they are intending to just like they already removed zombies.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Yes, everyone is a millwright and can operate engine lathes with expertise........ <_<

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Yea the crafting in Rust can get rediculous such as crafting m4s and modern shotguns.

 

I think since then they have removed all of the military weapons or atleast they are intending to just like they already removed zombies.

Really?  Wow, that game has failed hard

[Rudette 435]

Yeah, Rust's art direction is going with the scrapped together junk-rifle almost steampunk kinda vibe. The modern stuff will be phased out. Which I think is cool, since I can get my fill of boring generic military arms elsewhere. >.>

I like it ^-^ For different reasons than DayZ, as both games have their merits and flaws.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Rudette

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Yeah, Rust's art direction is going with the scrapped together junk-rifle almost steampunk kinda vibe. The modern stuff will be phased out.

I like it ^-^ For different reasons than DayZ, as both games have their merits and flaws.

Ya I suppose.  At least they admitted they were trying to be a DayZ clone and failed at it.  Don't get me wrong, I played the game but all I got out of it was Call of Minecraft

[Rudette 435]

Ya I suppose.  At least they admitted they were trying to be a DayZ clone and failed at it.  Don't get me wrong, I played the game but all I got out of it was Call of Minecraft

True! It's interesting though, in that it's trying to find it's own way after evolving from that. Very organic, astounding to watch and see where it goes.

I think over all though, once both games have all their core features, DayZ will be more my style. Mostly because I'm vain and it's prettier! >.>

 

[gibonez 3633]

Really?  Wow, that game has failed hard

 

Yea the game is still evolving and apparently now they are moving towards more of a low tech caveman style game.

 

Alot more improvised weapons and crafting will be a major part of the game apparently.

 

The zombies were removed and replaced with mutated animals .

[louist 163]

whyherro has his own special brand of logic.. I never said making a good arrow would be easy but making bullets in this situation would be well impossible...

Edit oh musket ball why didnt you say so not sure but how hard is gun powder to make doesnt seem like something average joe knows how to do though ..

Making an arrow he might make some real bad ones but would improve at it how does one make gun powder when they dont know the ingrediants to start with ???

Lets not use the average joe as the sole argument against something. I doubt the average joe could fashion an arrow that flies straight without a lot of practice, let alone a properly functioning bow. There's a lot at work there. The right type of wood, the correct curvature, width, length, weight, draw, treatment, so on and so forth. And that's for a very basic bow. With laminates... Well, have fun trying to build one with no prior knowledge.

[Valadain 270]

Lets not use the average joe as the sole argument against something. I doubt the average joe could fashion an arrow that flies straight without a lot of practice, let alone a properly functioning bow. There's a lot at work there. The right type of wood, the correct curvature, width, length, weight, draw, treatment, so on and so forth. And that's for a very basic bow. With laminates... Well, have fun trying to build one with no prior knowledge.

 

That is why I'm generally skeptical about the idea of reducing firearms and moving towards crafted and thrown weapons. Neither is very realistic and I actually prefer the idea of scavenging in a world full of stuff, but now light on people. I have the feeling that there is a game Rocket wants to make, but it doesn't much resemble the mod that drew me to this game. I'm hoping he is willing to adapt and compromise to keep something that is fun to play. Dead Island tried for the whole melee and thrown weapon zombie game and just felt completely wrong to me. You aren't going to launch a kitchen knife into a zombie's brain-pan. You might get a sharpened stick spear to do the job, but it is going to take some effort and it probably won't be much usable after the first kill.

[gibonez 3633]

That is why I'm generally skeptical about the idea of reducing firearms and moving towards crafted and thrown weapons. Neither is very realistic and I actually prefer the idea of scavenging in a world full of stuff, but now light on people. I have the feeling that there is a game Rocket wants to make, but it doesn't much resemble the mod that drew me to this game. I'm hoping he is willing to adapt and compromise to keep something that is fun to play. Dead Island tried for the whole melee and thrown weapon zombie game and just felt completely wrong to me. You aren't going to launch a kitchen knife into a zombie's brain-pan. You might get a sharpened stick spear to do the job, but it is going to take some effort and it probably won't be much usable after the first kill.

 

Melee and zombies just make sense.

 

I honestly cant think of any situation where I would use a firearm against a zombie because of the noise and fear of bringing in more zombies.

[Valadain 270]

Melee and zombies just make sense.

 

I honestly cant think of any situation where I would use a firearm against a zombie because of the noise and fear of bringing in more zombies.

 

Running and zombies makes sense honestly. Unless you are getting them around alone, I wouldn't be running into a group of them with a damn axe or a sharpened stick. Not in a world where a flesh wound might turn septic and kill you. Honestly, I'd be setting up traps, popping a few to get them following, then lead them to their death. From as big of a distance as I can. I wouldn't be slapping them with boat oars or trying to perfectly chuck a knife at them, knowing it was more likely to bounce off their skull than do any harm. I doubt I'd be axing them in the head either, as the skull is a pretty thick bone, so the wear an tear plus potential difficulty of popping the axe back out to fend off the others would be tricky.

 

The only reason melee in an FPS is a good solution for zombies is because it is wonky as hell and pretty much works like a free and silent bullet. Not for any sense of "realism".