Why loot is not full random?

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

There is also a proper section to file bug reports as this appears to be an item spawning bug. And I believe his report stated that it was fixed which it is not

 

It's not a bug, it's a discussion about game design.

[jubeidok 495]

My thoughts on the matter...

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/169892-loot-spawning-is-too-formulaic/

 

And another good discussion around the same theme...

 

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/171751-premium-loot-a-balanced-proposal-to-gearing-up/

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

It's not a bug, it's a discussion about game design.

If items are not spawning in locations that they are suppose then yes it is a bug.

[jubeidok 495]

You shouldn't be able to find an M4A1 in a church or office building. 

 

My question to responses like this is, why not?

[EchoRomeoCharlie 19]

My question to responses like this is, why not?

 

Agreed.

 

During the outbreak, people are going to be finding places they think are safe and they're going to carry weapons to get there safely.  Churches, schools, fire houses, community buildings, malls, etc all fair game IMO.

[Hrki 94]

My question to responses like this is, why not?

 

maybe there was some baddass pope in curch who was armed to teeth.... and unfortunately died...

[mercules 1290]

You guys realize that discussions like this are specifically the point of having a public alpha test. We get to criticize the existing features and suggests ways to improve them, which the developers will take into consideration when they're further developing these systems.

 

I'm so fucking sick of people screaming alpha at every god damn thread. Scream it at people who are rage quitting the game, don't scream it at people who are trying to help improve it.

 

/rant

 

 

It's not a bug, it's a discussion about game design.

 

You mean design and balance in a game that is still missing most of it's loot and systems because it is still very early into Alpha? Yeah... little early for the discussion and on top of it there is something going on with loot spawns in general that IS a bug that is compounding the issue. In addition there are some locations that simply have not had ANY loot spawns added in yet because... wait for it... it's an ALPHA. So yeah you can skip some houses because they are not down. You can skip others because the loot tables are not done. You can skip yet more because there is a lack of items to put into the loot tables that would make sense to scatter into other buildings. 

It's fine to "mention it" but lets not act like it is something the Devs need to address immediately when time will come when it will work itself out a lot better. Eventually there WILL be stuff in those houses that is worth at least checking for. Right now there is a (very) small chance of weapons and such dropping in locations other than barracks, but human nature being what it is some people will simply decide the odds are not enough to warrant even checking. 

Also it isn't as bad as the OP makes it out to be. In Dolina, which is a small town, there are about 6 spawn points where a possible gun can spawn including several spots for Mosins and 2 where an M4 might spawn. 

 

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

If items are not spawning in locations that they are suppose then yes it is a bug.

 

Items not spawning in some buildings was used as an example to show that even the lead developer doesn't know everything at all times.

 

The thread itself is about randomizing loot. Which is not a bug or caused by a bug.

 

You mean design and balance in a game that is still missing most of it's loot and systems because it is still very early into Alpha? Yeah... little early for the discussion and on top of it there is something going on with loot spawns in general that IS a bug that is compounding the issue. In addition there are some locations that simply have not had ANY loot spawns added in yet because... wait for it... it's an ALPHA. So yeah you can skip some houses because they are not down. You can skip others because the loot tables are not done. You can skip yet more because there is a lack of items to put into the loot tables that would make sense to scatter into other buildings. 

It's fine to "mention it" but lets not act like it is something the Devs need to address immediately when time will come when it will work itself out a lot better. Eventually there WILL be stuff in those houses that is worth at least checking for. Right now there is a (very) small chance of weapons and such dropping in locations other than barracks, but human nature being what it is some people will simply decide the odds are not enough to warrant even checking. 

Also it isn't as bad as the OP makes it out to be. In Dolina, which is a small town, there are about 6 spawn points where a possible gun can spawn including several spots for Mosins and 2 where an M4 might spawn. 

 

 

It's clear you failed to understand the points the OP was trying to make about the system and how we feel it needs to change. Your example of Dolina having 6 spawn points where a gun could be is EXACTLY the problem with the current system.

 

You say it's alpha so we should reserve judgement, but tell me this, why would a more complete system be satisfactory when we dislike what is already there? How is more of a bad thing ever going to be a good thing?

 

The point of the thread is that we should never know that there's 6 spawn points for a gun in Dolina. We should have no clue as to what loot we will find and in which house we will find it. Currently, I know which corners of which buildings have what kind of loot. That's not a good thing, and I feel like the developers need to get a handle on this before it gets too far into development.

[pacific_coast 632]

FIXED LOOT MEANS LOOT SPAWN CAMPING/FARMING/HOPPING.

same as now.

 

random loot spawns are kinda wtf. so i say no.

 

dynamic loot spawns could be cool, like helicoper crashes from the mod or maybe an overturned truck with suppiles?

maybe they appear at different places and depend on a variable fixed to the server setting?

[pacific_coast 632]

why is loot not full random?

 

because an sks, rice, oranges, rotten fruit, axes, weapon flashlights, loose bullets and hunting pants SHOULD NOT BE ITEMS COMMONLY FOUND IN A SCHOOL.

 

but i always find a gun in the school/office 3 story building. wtf?

 

guns in military barracks and police stations? maybe in a house? ok. realistic.

 

fire axes in firestations? ok.

 

magnums and ballstic vests and ammo in firestations? umm nope.

Edited February 13, 2014 by pacific_coast

[kobeandodom 23]

The location of loot should make sense. It doesn't make enough yet but i hope this is because it's alpha. Want a Firefighter axe? Most likely to find one at the Firestation. Food? Well, i have my food in the kitchen, don't know about you though. M4? Most likely in a military installation. I know that. You know that. Everyone knows that. And everyone (almost) wants a M4. So you go to a military installation like everyone else. Which makes it a high risk area which is good for the gameplay. If any loot could spawn anywhere, players would just spread over the map and encounters would be by far less likely.

 

encounters should be far less likely and players should be more spread out, as of right now you have everybody clustered into a few spots with a few annoying people camping and sniping those places, there is no real exploration or reward for doing so currently, everything you need can be found at the closest airfield which doesn't take long to get to at all.

[Judopunch 523]

You guys realize that discussions like this are specifically the point of having a public alpha test. We get to criticize the existing features and suggests ways to improve them, which the developers will take into consideration when they're further developing these systems.

 

I'm so fucking sick of people screaming alpha at every god damn thread. Scream it at people who are rage quitting the game, don't scream it at people who are trying to help improve it.

 

/rant

Thats true. But a discussion and a complaint are not equivalent.

[louist 163]

why is loot not full random?

because an sks, rice, oranges, rotten fruit, axes, weapon flashlights, loose bullets and hunting pants SHOULD NOT BE ITEMS COMMONLY FOUND IN A SCHOOL.

but i always find a gun in the school/office 3 story building. wtf?

guns in military barracks and police stations? maybe in a house? ok. realistic.

fire axes in firestations? ok.

magnums and ballstic vests and ammo in firestations? umm nope.

Are you being sarcastic? Or not?

Because those items listed (perhaps not the axe... Or rather, I have yet to find one) all currently spawn in the school.

For that matter, why wouldn't rice and oranges be found in a school?

[gibonez 3633]

why is loot not full random?

 

because an sks, rice, oranges, rotten fruit, axes, weapon flashlights, loose bullets and hunting pants SHOULD NOT BE ITEMS COMMONLY FOUND IN A SCHOOL.

 

but i always find a gun in the school/office 3 story building. wtf?

 

guns in military barracks and police stations? maybe in a house? ok. realistic.

 

fire axes in firestations? ok.

 

magnums and ballstic vests and ammo in firestations? umm nope.

 

why is loot not full random?

 

because an sks, rice, oranges, rotten fruit, axes, weapon flashlights, loose bullets and hunting pants SHOULD NOT BE ITEMS COMMONLY FOUND IN A SCHOOL.

 

but i always find a gun in the school/office 3 story building. wtf?

 

guns in military barracks and police stations? maybe in a house? ok. realistic.

 

fire axes in firestations? ok.

 

magnums and ballstic vests and ammo in firestations? umm nope.

 

Why wouldnt it ?

 

In the event of a zombie outbreak a school would make for a solid fortification.

 

Lots of room for storage, heavily built structure, easy to secure, and a large refrigeration system in place.

 

A school would end up being an emergency refugee location for survivors who would also bring weapons.

[bad_mojo (DayZ) 1204]

Thats true. But a discussion and a complaint are not equivalent.

 

The original poster explains the problem he see's, then he suggests a way to fix it, and then asks what our opinion is on this issue.

 

If that's not the start of a discussion I'm not sure what is. Are we only allowed to talk about alpha is we're praising it?

[jubeidok 495]

why is loot not full random?

 

because an sks, rice, oranges, rotten fruit, axes, weapon flashlights, loose bullets and hunting pants SHOULD NOT BE ITEMS COMMONLY FOUND IN A SCHOOL.

 

but i always find a gun in the school/office 3 story building. wtf?

 

guns in military barracks and police stations? maybe in a house? ok. realistic.

 

fire axes in firestations? ok.

 

magnums and ballstic vests and ammo in firestations? umm nope.

 

You're acting like when the outbreak occurred, all the inhabitants of Chernarus just walked out, threw their hands in the air and and let themselves be infected, leaving everything in a nice and orderly fashion making it easy for you to find. People will have herded/gathered at certain locations. One of them will have gotten infected, then another, then another. Mass panic will follow. Some will get out, some will die. Some loot will stay behind, some will find itself elsewhere. Anything can happen at any time, chaos theory.

[Karmaterror 982]

I hope there is a clear divide as to where mill loot spawns and where you will only find civy guns. If not there wont be any player hotspots, where people can go for PvP. There wont be that moment where you decide your crappy civ gear is finally enough to head to an airfield, in search of something better. Finding high value loot in low value locations would just mean people avoid the airfields and let the dice roll gift it to them from a garden shed after enough tries :)

[louist 163]

I hope there is a clear divide as to where mill loot spawns and where you will only find civy guns. If not there wont be any player hotspots, where people can go for PvP. There wont be that moment where you decide your crappy civ gear is finally enough to head to an airfield, in search of something better. Finding high value loot in low value locations would just mean people avoid the airfields and let the dice roll gift it to them from a garden shed after enough tries :)

A weighted distribution would keep the military locations the preferred target of those looking for military goods, but the current system, where specific things spawn at specific places (the gun in the top room of the school, in the stairwell and top room of the office building, and so on) is currently too easy to exploit.

When I enter a city, I know exactly where to go to get what I want, and I ignore all the other buildings because, quite simply, they are a waste if my time. I'd like to see that change.

[GoldenKade 73]

Maybe that "cheat" is the source of your boredom. 

Even if he didn't use the map he'd be a moron if he didn't figure out the buildings that spawn weapons and the buildings that don't.

 

This little thing called memory helps me go to the right buildings :)

[jubeidok 495]

I hope there is a clear divide as to where mill loot spawns and where you will only find civy guns. If not there wont be any player hotspots, where people can go for PvP. There wont be that moment where you decide your crappy civ gear is finally enough to head to an airfield, in search of something better. Finding high value loot in low value locations would just mean people avoid the airfields and let the dice roll gift it to them from a garden shed after enough tries :)

 

You can still have that divide while making most of the base gear/weapons completely random by allowing things such as ammo, larger magazines or attachments to be main focus of an airfield run and still have the higher percent chance that you are going to find high grade military weapons/gear there. Because that I can believe, that not all ammo was spent, that people weren't so concerned about making sure they grabbed all the primo attachments for their weapons during mass panic.

 

The fact is, a really good survivor probably isn't going to risk his life running into a military installment for something that isn't absolutely vital to his survival, but it doesn't mean that that same player shouldn't have that off chance of lucking out and finding a shiny little treat waiting for them behind that sofa. At the same time, it also shouldn't mean that a desperate or impatient survivor shouldn't have that opposite choice and still have the chance of equal rewards.

 

In the end, I'm pretty sure that most people that are on board with all out randomization of where loot of any kind can spawn, are also on board with that system being weighted to allow for greater chances of a find in the areas that make logical sense.

[Karmaterror 982]

A weighted distribution would keep the military locations the preferred target of those looking for military goods, but the current system, where specific things spawn at specific places (the gun in the top room of the school, in the stairwell and top room of the office building, and so on) is currently too easy to exploit.

When I enter a city, I know exactly where to go to get what I want, and I ignore all the other buildings because, quite simply, they are a waste if my time. I'd like to see that change.

 

I got no doubt that specific spawns will go in the end. I think a lot of the problem atm is well....put simply...alpha. But I wont just say that lol....Its a general lack of diversity in loot atm. We haven't got even 25% of the total loot items that will be in the finished product (yes that's a guess :P) But in that guess im not even factoring in car parts or junk loot.

 

The first hurdle will be to just get loot in every structure, not just a few. Then once all the items start coming in I think it will get very hard to find specific things.

 

 

You can still have that divide while making most of the base gear/weapons completely random by allowing things such as ammo, larger magazines or attachments to be main focus of an airfield run and still have the higher percent chance that you are going to find high grade military weapons/gear there. Because that I can believe, that not all ammo was spent, that people weren't so concerned about making sure they grabbed all the primo attachments for their weapons during mass panic.

 

The fact is, a really good survivor probably isn't going to risk his life running into a military installment for something that isn't absolutely vital to his survival, but it doesn't mean that that same player shouldn't have that off chance of lucking out and finding a shiny little treat waiting for them behind that sofa. At the same time, it also shouldn't mean that a desperate or impatient survivor shouldn't have that opposite choice and still have the chance of equal rewards.

 

In the end, I'm pretty sure that most people that are on board with all out randomization of where loot of any kind can spawn, are also on board with that system being weighted to allow for greater chances of a find in the areas that make logical sense.

 

I don't mind things like civy weapons in houses, say rare chance for a magnum or a shotty. But I feel like 99% of houses should be food/cloths/junk loot. If there is even a slight chance for something like an M4 to spawn, then I just see some people camping next to a small out of the way town and playing the odds. Especialy when loot respawn comes in and people start getting there farm on again. That was one of the good things in the mod, if you were to farm for an M4, you would have to do it in a real high risk location :)

[louist 163]

I got no doubt that specific spawns will go in the end. I think a lot of the problem atm is well....put simply...alpha. But I wont just say that lol....Its a general lack of diversity in loot atm. We haven't got even 25% of the total loot items that will be in the finished product (yes that's a guess :P) But in that guess im not even factoring in car parts or junk loot.

The first hurdle will be to just get loot in every structure, not just a few. Then once all the items start coming in I think it will get very hard to find specific things.

I don't mind things like civy weapons in houses, say rare chance for a magnum or a shotty. But I feel like 99% of houses should be food/cloths/junk loot. If there is even a slight chance for something like an M4 to spawn, then I just see some people camping next to a small out of the way town and playing the odds. Especialy when loot respawn comes in and people start getting there farm on again. That was one of the good things in the mod, if you were to farm for an M4, you would have to do it in a real high risk location :)

But if the odds of an M4 (or comparable) is, say, .5% in a house, yet 15% in a military structure, farming that out of the way town wouldn't pay off very often, even with loot respawning. But for the average person coming across one at random, that's a little bit of awesome.

Keep in mind, too, that the farmer doesn't just want an M4. He wants the attachments and the magpul and the ammo and the expanded capacity magazines, to say nothing of the military clothing. With a properly weighted distribution, that should force him to check hundreds, if not thousands, of houses, as opposed to dozens of military buildings. This would keep a lot of those looking for military gear around the military bases, while still rewarding, if less much less frequently, those players who take the time to check out individual houses.

Risk versus reward would be maintained, as those who brave the PVP hotspots would receive the military gear they're looking for, while those who are afraid to, or who would simply rather not, would sometimes find odds and ends, with little promise that they would be what they were looking for, or even of use. But the chance, however slim, would still make searching houses more interesting than they currently are.

[Demoth 366]

The location of loot should make sense. It doesn't make enough yet but i hope this is because it's alpha. Want a Firefighter axe? Most likely to find one at the Firestation. Food? Well, i have my food in the kitchen, don't know about you though. M4? Most likely in a military installation. I know that. You know that. Everyone knows that. And everyone (almost) wants a M4. So you go to a military installation like everyone else. Which makes it a high risk area which is good for the gameplay. If any loot could spawn anywhere, players would just spread over the map and encounters would be by far less likely.

Why would military gear spawn ONLY in military bases?

We are playing some time after the disaster. Military bases would have been picked clean a while ago and their weapons spread out amonst survivors and soldier who could have ultimately died in a house / barn from zeds.

I don't advocate that M4's and military loot spawn everywhere but there should be a tiiiny chance you find anything anywhere.

To many people act like an outbreak would mean everyone immediately turned into zombie so the current world's items are a snap shot of what life was like right before the outbreak.

[alldaypk 63]

I like the idea of the chance to find a dead body with ammo+weapons (random encounters) but i don't think loot should be randomly spread. Maybe the chance of wandering across a group of dead soldiers and soldier zombies with the chance of mil-spec loot etc. Farmers with axes. Farmers with axes in their heads. Fat Farmers with axes in their heads, and a rifle on their back. Without pants. what a story that would make

 

 

[Hrki 94]

Like is say there is a pattern of houses with loot (always is chance to finde excatly that loot in that building) no need to explore others...

 

Yes encounter the players would be lot harder if they are all spread arround but that is also point of puting game as close to "RL"

 

And yes full random loot ... like other guys say

 

You're acting like when the outbreak occurred, all the inhabitants of Chernarus just walked out, threw their hands in the air and and let themselves be infected, leaving everything in a nice and orderly fashion making it easy for you to find. People will have herded/gathered at certain locations. One of them will have gotten infected, then another, then another. Mass panic will follow. Some will get out, some will die. Some loot will stay behind, some will find itself elsewhere. Anything can happen at any time, chaos theory.

and many others. Its just like this people run away and let all items and stuff in perfect order... its kinda stupid... There shoud be random loot spawns and chances to see everything everywhere maybe not m4 put still why not... also batter chance to see military loot in military bases but still why some guy from army cant ecape orders and go full defend his family... also like one guy say "In the event of a zombie outbreak a school would make for a solid fortification.

 

Lots of room for storage, heavily built structure, easy to secure, and a large refrigeration system in place.

 

A school would end up being an emergency refugee location for survivors who would also bring weapons."

 

Also random heli crash sites like in MOD or Abandom camp sites...

 

idk for you but thats my oppinion... more random more fun and expolation and less camping airfields and few towns...

 

after few hours of playing you know excatly what items do you want and where can you find it... so you enter town check 2-3 houses and go away or simply you go at airfields... so map is "populated" about 20% of it + some who lives in forest and is scared to death of loosing items...

 

and after you died you rebuild your char in 3h + - depends of luck of server restarts...

Edited February 13, 2014 by HrkiGV