Lets discuss what is 'Cheating' and what isn't

[Katana67 2907]

Cheating and doing things which are problematic to gameplay aren't the same thing.

 

Cheating, to me, is intentionally manipulating a system in a manner in which it was not designed (i.e. hacking).

 

Things that are problematic to gameplay, to me, are things that have not yet been addressed by developers (i.e. exploits) which people can use to the overall detriment of everyone else.

 

Cheating, as with most everything, is subjective. Ultimately, you're thinking on a spectrum of legitimacy wherein cheating is somehow less legitimate than exploits. I prefer to think of it in terms of how detrimental it is to gameplay, not whether it's right/wrong.

 

Server hopping and raising your gamma aren't cheating, per-se, as they're functions of the game (with one being fully endorsed/ignored and the other tacitly discouraged). However, that doesn't mean that they're not problematic and do not need addressing.

 

Point being, think of the consequences that occur with what you consider to be cheating/exploiting rather than the act itself.

 

For the record, here are some things I consider to be problematic (with a truncated reasoning for why I think that)...

- Using TS. It undercuts any in-game communication method and allows meta-gaming in groups. Why care about your life when you can consequence-less-ly radio for a pickup on TS?

- Gamma. Nights are intended to be dark. But, they also need to be playable. Rather than having gamma give psuedo-NVG effects, why not just have night be a smidge brighter as to be playable (and still make use of a flashlight)?

- Server hopping. Pretty self-explanatory, allows people to farm loot even in a loot-controlled environment and gain specific tactical advantages on the battlefield. It undercuts any potential construction mechanic to be included in DayZ as well.

- Out-of-game item trading. Undercuts a lot of in-game interaction. Why make use of the included pen/paper to leave a dead-drop trade when you can just hop on the forums?

Edited March 17, 2014 by Katana67

[Magicks 17]

Cheating and doing things which are problematic to gameplay aren't the same thing.

 

 

They arn't? All cheating is problematic to gameplay, and i might be going out on a limb here, but yea maybe not all, but most things problematic to a good gameplay experience are cheating. (take note however: not at this stage of game development where there are fps issues/lag ect. but once a full game is released as finished, really the only thing problematic to gameplay are people finding and abusing exploits and glitches.) Why do you think Call of Duty bans people for using glitches to get into parts of the map they shouldnt be in? Yea they didnt hack the system, its just there and anyone can do it, but its an exploit and considered cheating because it gives an unfair advantage.

 

Definition of cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination.

Definition of exploit: s the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

It seems your definition of hacking, matches pretty closely to the definition of an exploit. The game designers didnt add in a gamma slider for you to make it easier to see at night, they put it there to optimize night time and daytime (i.e. at day it should look like day, at night it should look like night, not at night it should look closer to day)

 

You also mentioned server hopping, yes it's a function of the game, but its an exlpoit (which is cheating) because thats not how the designers have intented the game to be played. The fact that they are trying to add in preventions for it should speak for itself that they consider it unfair.

 

[dvsilverwing 241]

I don't server hop because I don't really need to, I can just kill someone and gear up pretty fast on top of knowing where certain items spawn at. That being said, server hopping isn't cheating or an exploit, it's a workaround to having no item respawning system which they've still not directly addressed. Rather, they half-assed a login timer that's a completely nuisance to deal with.

 

I mean, literally take a second to think about this before you start screaming and crying: why would anyone server hop when they could just go and loot a different town whose loot has respawned? They most likely wouldn't unless they're server hopping for PvP action to get off of dead servers. This half-assed timer fix didn't fix server hopping at all, people still do it, they just shift+tab and watch a video while they wait. It does, however, manage to provide a pain in the ass experience for every player that wants to change servers.

Edited March 17, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[Grimey Rick 3417]

I don't server hop because I don't really need to, I can just kill someone and gear up pretty fast on top of knowing where certain items spawn at. That being said, server hopping isn't cheating or an exploit, it's a workaround to having no item respawning system which they've still not directly addressed. Rather, they half-assed a login timer that's a completely nuisance to deal with.

 

I mean, literally take a second to think about this before you start screaming and crying: why would anyone server hop when they could just go and loot a different town whose loot has respawned? They most likely wouldn't unless they're server hopping for PvP action to get off of dead servers. This half-assed timer fix didn't fix server hopping at all, people still do it, they just shift+tab and watch a video while they wait. It does, however, manage to provide a pain in the ass experience for every player that wants to change servers.

 

I agree with you, but I'd mention that the timer is more for preventing ghosting than server-hopping. Server-hopping won't be squashed until, like you said, random, respawning loot tables are added.

[StoutAle 69]

They arn't? All cheating is problematic to gameplay, and i might be going out on a limb here, but yea maybe not all, but most things problematic to a good gameplay experience are cheating. (take note however: not at this stage of game development where there are fps issues/lag ect. but once a full game is released as finished, really the only thing problematic to gameplay are people finding and abusing exploits and glitches.) Why do you think Call of Duty bans people for using glitches to get into parts of the map they shouldnt be in? Yea they didnt hack the system, its just there and anyone can do it, but its an exploit and considered cheating because it gives an unfair advantage.

 

Definition of cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination.

Definition of exploit: s the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

It seems your definition of hacking, matches pretty closely to the definition of an exploit. The game designers didnt add in a gamma slider for you to make it easier to see at night, they put it there to optimize night time and daytime (i.e. at day it should look like day, at night it should look like night, not at night it should look closer to day)

 

You also mentioned server hopping, yes it's a function of the game, but its an exlpoit (which is cheating) because thats not how the designers have intented the game to be played. The fact that they are trying to add in preventions for it should speak for itself that they consider it unfair.

 

 

Your getting into opinion and stretching the concept of a bug and exploit.  When I first started playing MMO's (EQ at release) I didn't realize how horrible my monitor was, I was running around in complete dark and it wasn't because of the game it was my horrible video card and monitor.  I played like that for a while before I realized I could change it with the gamma and have a chance to survive.  When you say "the gamma is to make night look like night" can you define what that is?  Its completely opinion as to how dark night is because some people have seen pitch black and some never have. 

 

As I said, I think moving the gamma makes it easier and simply isn't needed.  If you want to play at night use a flashlight, the thing is that's my opinion and if others don't believe that it doesn't mean they are exploiting or cheating it just means that opinions vary.  If it's an in game function and you use it as the developers designed it to be used (gamma brightens/darkens the game, it's the purpose of it) your playing within the parameters of the game.  It's not how I'd play, but it's not an exploit or a cheat.

[Katana67 2907]

They arn't? All cheating is problematic to gameplay, and i might be going out on a limb here, but yea maybe not all, but most things problematic to a good gameplay experience are cheating. (take note however: not at this stage of game development where there are fps issues/lag ect. but once a full game is released as finished, really the only thing problematic to gameplay are people finding and abusing exploits and glitches.) Why do you think Call of Duty bans people for using glitches to get into parts of the map they shouldnt be in? Yea they didnt hack the system, its just there and anyone can do it, but its an exploit and considered cheating because it gives an unfair advantage.

 

Definition of cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination.

Definition of exploit: s the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

It seems your definition of hacking, matches pretty closely to the definition of an exploit. The game designers didnt add in a gamma slider for you to make it easier to see at night, they put it there to optimize night time and daytime (i.e. at day it should look like day, at night it should look like night, not at night it should look closer to day)

 

You also mentioned server hopping, yes it's a function of the game, but its an exlpoit (which is cheating) because thats not how the designers have intented the game to be played. The fact that they are trying to add in preventions for it should speak for itself that they consider it unfair.

 

 

I'm saying that the distinction between cheating/exploit is irrelevant. Whether or not a particular action has a detriment to the game, is relevant. Distinguishing between the two is a subjective action dependent on the perspective of the individual. For instance, a hacker/exploiter can make the argument that "The developers allowed this to happen, therefore, there's nothing wrong with it". I don't agree with the argument at all, but I'm placing a premium on whether or not something harms the game... rather than making distinctions which are ultimately up to the individual to make.

 

I do make those distinctions on a personal level, but I care less about what constitutes cheating/exploiting than I do how we can address these problems (whether they be cheating or exploiting) in-game to make a better experience. Getting stuck up on definitions doesn't translate into solving the issues.

[So Sexy 259]

Anything not involving hacks and glitch abuse, cannot be called cheating.

[lipemr 160]

  I think people make up there own rules for "cheating" based on what THEY are willing to do.

 

Gamma adjusting.. not cheating. Reason it's not, anyone can do it.  It's not an UNFAIR advantage if everyone can do it.

TS? Not cheating.  DayZ runs on Steam.  Me and my friends use Steam voice chat and it works just fine.  Anyone can do it.

Trading with others, having friends gear you, server hopping etc etc etc isn't cheating because anyone can do it that means the "unfair advantage" isn't really there.

 

People are confusing what they think the game should be or the morals they put on themselves with cheating.

 

I think playing the game without a voice chat with real life friends is silly because half of the time we are talking about non game related stuff anyway.  It's just giving friends a chance to talk and not be bored.  Does it help if we are engaged in a firefight? Sure, not saying it doesn't.  Is that the reason we use it? Not at all.  Can anyone use it? Yes, if you run Steam you can use the voice chat just like we do.

 

On the rare occasion I played on a night server I used a weapon flashlight to see, I didn't adjust the gamma.  It was dark, really dark, like can't see loot at all dark.  People can argue how dark it actually gets outside all they want and depending on where you are it is different.  Anyone who says it doesn't get pitch black out simply hasn't ever experienced it, it does exist.  None of that matters though because while changing the gamma to see is weak and not how it is intended to be played it's not actually cheating because anyone can do it, hence once again the "unfair advantage" isn't there. 

 

If you hack to teleport around or get gear you didn't find that's cheating.  Everything I named can be done with the software loaded on the computer to play the game either in game or  through Steam, hacking the game with other software is cheating.  Using what's given to you in the game might be weak, it might not be how some play and you might be making the game easier then intended but it's not "cheating" IMO (and based on the actual definition of the word).

 

well, going from that line of thinking, anyone can download a cheating program, so isnt an unfair advantage.

 

also, leaning inside the walls is in game, everybody can use it, but it's cheating for sure.