The Current Combat Log System Dosen't Work

[Crooked Hauser 258]

Today I logged out to get the mail. Came back and logged in. Saw myself sitting there in the building I was in, not moving. Same clothes, backpack and shoes. Killed myself out of curiosity and got to double my gear... What wasn't ruined from the axe beat down anyway.

So I guess I combat logged on myself. Take that cheater!

[excitable1 156]

the current system basically promotes a call of duty type play style, i don't understand why this game is being pushed towards a deathmatch, how long before they start making us play to 10 kills.

 

[solodude23 649]

Some people like the guy i met today, will gamble no matter what, its perfectly logical. A combat logger will now just make a quick assesment of wether 30 secs is enough for you to make it to him or not, then act accordingly. So everyone wont just stop trying....there doing it right now. Eventually i bet some will get good at it, i only made it to this guy with about 5-10 seconds to spare.

If anything the 30s should be increased to 1-2 minutes. 30 seconds really isn't long in terms of many DayZ firefights. Plenty of time to successfully combat log without a high chance of death as a consequence. As long as you've found a nice secluded spot, there's virtually no chance someone will run into you in that time. That's the point to the timer. To stop people from doing it altogether by making combat logging a TERRIBLE idea. I have not once been killed after logging off because I don't do it in bad areas.

 

Its honestly like everyone is just so ready to slaughter these unarmed loggers, maybe out of pent up rage, instead of making them face the situation they were trying to avoid. This system they still avoid the encounter......not good for them, you have an NPC bot to kill......not good for you. And lets not forget this is the first implementation of the combat log system....only 2 months into the alpha, im sure they are open to experimenting with it a bit more than just what we have now :)

What's the matter with that? Is there really something wrong with combat loggers getting punished? Combat logging should be harshly punished as it is a clear exploitation and ruins gameplay. It has LITTLE to do with killing a lifeless NPC, lots to do with encouraging people NOT to combat log at all.

Also, since the logout timer has been added to the game I have not been combat logged on. Seems to be MUCH better than before. It's doing its job.

Edited February 8, 2014 by solodude23

[africanhungergames 192]

 

If he read it he wouldn't assume im crying because i carn't combat log lol, was just a generic response off the topic title

 

 

 

You still missing point

 

Current system>guy hits log>0%chance of interaction      Best case you kill an NPC....boring as hell

 

Cancelable system>guy hits log>100% chance for interaction            Best case you handcuff the little shit and punish him for his attempt to log.

 

Look at my sig....i hate loggers, but this system just isnt preserving the interaction at all.

No.

 

Best case he watches the door through the wall glitch, when you come close he cancels the timer and shoots you.

 

Why do you keep ignoring this fact, are you deluded.

Edited February 8, 2014 by africanhungergames

[africanhungergames 192]

Ugh condecending much.......

 

You really question my IQ and dont believe people gamble with that 30 seconds? If so why threads saying up the time......oh thats right people still attempt a combat log all the time.

 

I fully understand that its a deterant at the moment....but thats all it is. Say a guy shoots at you from a house.....he then tries to log, the second he hit log out any chance of any interaction dies with him hitting that button......now thats pretty much what we had before. 

 

With a cancelable logout....that can also be broken by other players, when they hit logout the chance of interaction s still there. Maybe you just enjoy killing a shell that stands there and carnt fight back, personally i find that a bit boring. 

 

I sir could question your IQ for not seeing im arguing the pricipal of the system dosent work, we still loose all interaction as soon as that button is hit.

Do you want to know why your IQ is so low.

 

Let me explain it to you really simply.

 

A. LOT. LESS. PEOPLE. ARE. DOING. IT.

 

THE. SYSTEM. YOU. ARE. PROPOSING HAS. BEEN. TESTED. AND. CAN. BE. EXPLOITED. IT. COULD. NOT. BE. EXPLOITED. THE. SAME. WAY. IN. WOW. BECAUSE. IT. IS. A. DIFFERENT. GAME.

 

YOUR. SYSTEM. FAILED. TESTING. THIS. SYSTEM. PASSED. TESTING. YOUR SYSTEM. DID. NOT. WORK. IN ACHIEVING. A. REDUCTION. IN. COMBAT. LOGGING. THIS. SYSTEM. DID.

 

Is that a little bit easier to understand

[louist 163]

the current system is fair, as staying in combat gives people a higher chance of survival than logging out - so we have an incentive for desired behaviour.

a cancellable timer has been tested internally and found to be too exploitable.

All we know is that it was found to be exploitable. We don't know the nature of the exploit, and I have my doubts that it was the ability to cancel it, given that many games use such a system correctly. My guess is that the implementation was flawed.

[Karmaterror 982]

No.

 

Best case he watches the door through the wall glitch, when you come close he cancels the timer and shoots you.

 

Why do you keep ignoring this fact, are you deluded.

 

Your not getting it....I want him to shoot back. I want the combat, not an boring NPC, is that so hard to understand?

 

Its no different to an old log in as much as the player is gone...instantly. 0% chance of interaction

 

 

Do you want to know why your IQ is so low.

 

Let me explain it to you really simply.

 

A. LOT. LESS. PEOPLE. ARE. DOING. IT.

 

THE. SYSTEM. YOU. ARE. PROPOSING HAS. BEEN. TESTED. AND. CAN. BE. EXPLOITED. IT. COULD. NOT. BE. EXPLOITED. THE. SAME. WAY. IN. WOW. BECAUSE. IT. IS. A. DIFFERENT. GAME.

 

YOUR. SYSTEM. FAILED. TESTING. THIS. SYSTEM. PASSED. TESTING. YOUR SYSTEM. DID. NOT. WORK. IN ACHIEVING. A. REDUCTION. IN. COMBAT. LOGGING. THIS. SYSTEM. DID.

 

Is that a little bit easier to understand

 

So because they couldn't achieve it first time they should abandon it? Why is it you think they tried to implement that first, then went for this when they found it to be exploitable. That's what the alpha is for, experimenting, improving things.

 

Oh and in one of my earlier posts I said that I understand its had issues in closed testing. But that I think this should be a long term goal to fix the exploit, and provide the system that gives the best chance of players getting some form of interaction with eachother. 

 

NO.NEED.TO.BE.A.DICK.

[soulfirez 901]

Your not getting it....I want him to shoot back. I want the combat, not an boring NPC, is that so hard to understand?

 

Its no different to an old log in as much as the player is gone...instantly. 0% chance of interaction

 

 

 

So because they couldn't achieve it first time they should abandon it? Why is it you think they tried to implement that first, then went for this when they found it to be exploitable. That's what the alpha is for, experimenting, improving things.

 

Oh and in one of my earlier posts I said that I understand its had issues in closed testing. But that I think this should be a long term goal to fix the exploit, and provide the system that gives the best chance of players getting some form of interaction with eachother. 

 

NO.NEED.TO.BE.A.DICK.

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to be a dick when responding to you every time someone has explained how it works you just say no i dont want to kill an npc ya da ya da..

 

I change my opinion you are a combat logger and are just trying to hide the fact ..... OR you really are completely deviod of common sense.. dont worry wont post again in your thread lol its kinda hard to make any sense in a thread where the OP adds 2 and 2 together and gets 46....

[africanhungergames 192]

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to be a dick when responding to you every time someone has explained how it works you just say no i dont want to kill an npc ya da ya da..

 

I change my opinion you are a combat logger and are just trying to hide the fact ..... OR you really are completely deviod of common sense.. dont worry wont post again in your thread lol its kinda hard to make any sense in a thread where the OP adds 2 and 2 together and gets 46....

Exactly i just want this thread to die now, were feeding the OP. Everything has been explained to him and if he does not like it, get another game because there is no way its changing anytime soon.

[Karmaterror 982]

Exactly i just want this thread to die now, were feeding the OP. Everything has been explained to him and if he does not like it, get another game because there is no way its changing anytime soon.

 

I never asked you to explain anything to me. Im raising a fundimental flaw in the system. One you could probably see if you could remove the fanboy shades for a sec an just read. Give me a source saying its not going to change, that the devs are completely happy with this system and have no intention of looking into changing it. That's bullshit, hate to say it but.....

 

ITS ALPHA!

 

 

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to be a dick when responding to you every time someone has explained how it works you just say no i dont want to kill an npc ya da ya da..

 

I change my opinion you are a combat logger and are just trying to hide the fact ..... OR you really are completely deviod of common sense.. dont worry wont post again in your thread lol its kinda hard to make any sense in a thread where the OP adds 2 and 2 together and gets 46....

 

Really, cos it seems that's what your doing to me lol.  Again I didn't ask for explination. I pointed out a flaw with this system that for some reason you think isn't there. Its creating immersion breaking moments ingame, and not keeping loggers in the server. Just answer 2 questions...

 

Would a player being able to respond not be much more immersive and suspensefull than what we have now?

 

How is it different form before when the player element is STILL gone instantly, when the point was to keep them there...make them FACE that situation? 

 

And don't say its a deterrent. We all know that. But its like saying that because the police exist there is no crime.....bullshit. People gamble. 

 

The reason I have to repeat myself is because people just say the same thing, so my response is the same. I could quote myself but id rather just type a reply. Noone has given any good reasons why the other system is bad....except for "they tried in testing...it failed....your IQ must be low" Now a statement like that only speaks to your IQ because... things fail in alpha builds all the time....that doesn't mean you give up ya know!

 

Only one good point has been that it might encourage people to try and log out more. But with a longer timer and you having the ability to break another persons log out attempt it would still be a huge risk. But we would keep immersion, interaction and authenticity, as im pretty sure no person is going to stand there and let themselfs be beaten to death. Dean wants authentic....this system is not authentic at all. Its either they got away...or free kill. Nobody had there combat preserved.

 

The point is all you guys wanna do is explain how this system works....I know how it works...and its flawed. There must be a reason they went for a live logout first then changed when they found out it was exploitable. If anything that suggests that they prefer the live option, but couldn't get it implemented yet due to this exploit :)

[Karmaterror 982]

Bumping instead of making new thread....check the edit on the OP ;)

[pacific_coast 632]

it's what? 30 seconds after taking damage before you can log out?

how is this broken?

[Karmaterror 982]

it's what? 30 seconds after taking damage before you can log out?

how is this broken?

 

nothing like that atm, but that would be fine. At least with that I could stop a logger from disconnecting. Atm we can disconnect from our avatar at any time. Just he stays in game for 30 secs for the free yolo kill ;)

[smoq2 221]

I don't think the OP understands the reason why we have a log-out method the way we have it.

 

People who combat logged don't want to fight. They don't want to resume fighting if conditions other then having the attacker on a silver plate are met, or have any interaction with him/her whatsoever.

 

Most people would just exploit a timer solution by hitting the log-out button in a place where they can watch surroundings in 3rd person mode and pray the attacker to wonder if his enemy started to log out or not and not move out of cover himself until the timer runs out. If he does, break the timer, then fire some defensive shots until the situation is safe again to start a logout timer again. Rinse, repeat. It is still a gamble, but the odds are in favour of the logging out player.

 

I don't know what is that the OP finds frustrating in punishing a combat-logger because he is simply a husk, but the system is designed exactly this way. Logging out should be a gamble with even odds for the attacker and defender.

Edited February 19, 2014 by retro19

[pacific_coast 632]

ok free yolo kill is the same as a kill

 

he still died and had the shame of logging

 

patches will force connection until death in combat outside of a keybind to CTD eventually.

 

this is a low priority to me.

[Karmaterror 982]

I don't think the OP understands the reason why we have a log-out method the way we have it.

 

People who combat logged don't want to fight. They don't want to resume fighting if conditions other then having the attacker on a silver plate are met, or have any interaction with him/her whatsoever.

 

Most people would just exploit a timer solution by hitting the log-out button in a place where they can watch surroundings in 3rd person mode and pray the attacker to wonder if his enemy started to log out or not and not move out of cover himself until the timer runs out. If he does, break the timer, then fire some defensive shots until the situation is safe again to start a logout timer again. Rinse, repeat. It is still a gamble, but the odds are in favour of the logging out player.

 

I don't know what is that the OP finds frustrating in punishing a combat-logger because he is simply a husk, but the system is designed exactly this way. Logging out should be a gamble with even odds for the attacker and defender.

 

From this post I don't think you understand the reason for the timer though.....sorry but its not just to punish them....its to preserve combat. Sure this sytem punishes them but it punishes me aswell....why? I want them to remain in game and REACT when im stood 2 feet infront of them....that's immersion.

 

You are completely right they don't want to fight, but as it is now they still don't. They just gamble. Now if they could be kept in game they would have to fight....and that's the point....forcing the situation on them that they are trying to avoid :)

[NotFish 50]

The combat log system isn't intended to force people to finish fights, it's intended to punish people who try to combat log and discourage it in the future.

 

You need to understand the mindset of a combat logger. They don't do it to avoid fights, they do it because they don't want to lose their gear in a fight that is not going their way. When they try to combat log for this reason, the other guy can just shot them in the head in the next 30 seconds, so they lose their gear anyway. Knowing this, combat loggers will not try and combat log but rather try to run or fight their way out.

 

It's not about avoiding fights, it's about protecting themselves. And when it no longer protects them, they will stop doing it.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

worked just fine for me earlier today. Dude saw us at the NEAF comin up to the fence. didn't even shoot at the guy and he ran into the pine tree on the other side of the fence right by the ATC, then logged (he started doin the combat log dance)

 

so I said "screw it" shot him dead lol. Unfortunately there's still that glitch where bodies under some pine trees can't be looted for some reason, as well as items are unable to be picked up

[Karmaterror 982]

ok free yolo kill is the same as a kill

 

he still died and had the shame of logging

 

patches will force connection until death in combat outside of a keybind to CTD eventually.

 

this is a low priority to me.

 

But that assumes you would have won anyway....and that's the flaw....these guys might have won if we could just keep them in the fight ;)

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

A Zombie-Thread! Shoot it! It has been resurrected!

 

Sorry, not on your side on this.

 

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to be a dick when responding to you every time someone has explained how it works you just say no i dont want to kill an npc ya da ya da..

 

I change my opinion you are a combat logger and are just trying to hide the fact ..... OR you really are completely deviod of common sense.. dont worry wont post again in your thread lol its kinda hard to make any sense in a thread where the OP adds 2 and 2 together and gets 46....

 

 

Exactly i just want this thread to die now, were feeding the OP. Everything has been explained to him and if he does not like it, get another game because there is no way its changing anytime soon.

[NotFish 50]

Combat logging is the same as admitting defeat. He might as well as stood up, dropped his gun and put his hands up while i walk up and execute him on the spot. If he combat logs, then he admits defeat and i'll walk up and execute him while he sits on the ground like the melon that he is.

 

The system works, and the only people who have a problem with it are combat loggers.

[smoq2 221]

From this post I don't think you understand the reason for the timer though.....sorry but its not just to punish them....its to preserve combat. Sure this sytem punishes them but it punishes me aswell....why? I want them to remain in game and REACT when im stood 2 feet infront of them....that's immersion.

 

You are completely right they don't want to fight, but as it is now they still don't. They just gamble. Now if they could be kept in game they would have to fight....and that's the point....forcing the situation on them that they are trying to avoid :)

 

You are right. I don't understand a reason for a timer. Maybe because I can only see it being exploited 9/10 times.

I'm sorry, but as NotFish said, the only reason for the combat-logging mentality to die off, is to make it a not viable option to save gear. Having a timer AND control over this timer to get back in a fight when it suits a combat-logger is still a viable option.

 

Believe me OP, you would not get an immersive combat with your solution. Most of your fights would end up with the guy just vanishing because he managed to stall you for X seconds in a row.

 

On a side not, I haven't seen anyone attempt to combat log since the prevention methods was implemented.

[Karmaterror 982]

I honestly carn't see why people are opposed to a system where you could have your interaction (whatever that may be) regardless of weather the guy tries to log or not. Wasn't that the point.....to protect the game experience of none loggers?

 

And for the people that say "they could watch, then stand up and fight".....bingo!....they would still be in game to fight...and that's what im saying. Now there is no tension, no immersion approaching a logger....its almost like a glitch....get there in 30 for free kill glitch.

 

Now imagine he could stand up and fire back....imagine the tension that would still be there on approach, the care with which you would have to keep your gun on him while talking him out of logging. Resorting to punching him if he wouldn't comply....its just so much....better lol :)

 

PS with a live system they would have to sit or something. So you could still just choose to instant punish them with a kill. It would just open up a lot more options than the current method.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Karmaterror

[execpro22 128]

But that assumes you would have won anyway....and that's the flaw....these guys might have won if we could just keep them in the fight ;)

 

 

Do you realize what you are saying?

 

"if we could keep them in  the fight"   The only thing not "keeping them in the fight"  is themselves....

 

 

You are blaming the log out timer for thier bad behavior....

[africanhungergames 192]

And just like before, you have added nothing knew to the op that was not discussed earlier in the thread.

 

BAD IDEA