Premium loot -- A balanced proposal to "gearing up"

[Chaingunfighter 917]

It would make it that much harder to get better stuff, because you need the lockpicks in order to get to the premium loot. That's kindof the point :)

And I do think it is fairly realistic to have the most valuable items behind lock-and-key.

Yeah, but people would just camp the places that spawn them. It would be very time consuming for them to randomize it, I mean the most randomization for loot-spawns we had was chopper crashes and those spawned in the middle of fields, it would be incredibly annoying to code containers with weapons that don't glitch. With that, you end up with having set locations which only increases the number of people camping them for people who want gear.

 

Not everything valuable is going to be strung-up inside a safe after the apocalypse. In the situation of an apocalypse, I can imagine people would be struggling to get their items away from safeguarded locations. Military forces, law enforcement, private security companies, etc. All of them are going to be rushing to their armories to get weapons to defend themselves, and they probably wouldn't take the time to lock the door when you've got infected beating down the fences. 

The sense of a panicked environment where only a few people made it out, trying to get what they can and throwing everything else around is realistic and adds to the atmosphere. It actually makes a lot of sense that you find guns, ammo, gear, food and other things strewn around, as they were rushed to get something specific, and not just guns/ammo/medicine/food/whatever. 

Granted, I do want safes/locked containers eventually, but I don't think you should have to look in a safe just because you want some 5.56 bullets.

[ImageCtrl 719]

Yeah, but people would just camp the places that spawn them.

His idea was that random Zombies spawn them.

Edited February 6, 2014 by NoCheats

[carcinovich 156]

Granted, I do want safes/locked containers eventually, but I don't think you should have to look in a safe just because you want some 5.56 bullets.

More like high-grade weaponry and other premium gear. Not saying that any gun-related content should be under lock and key. Just really crazy end-game stuff.

 

His idea was that random Zombies spawn them.

Yep. And maybe in completely randomized buildings, if that is at all feasible. Why not.

[Rudette 435]

You post a lot of thoughtful suggestion threads Carcinovich! I like this idea.

I really like the idea of maybe forgoing the killing power of a Fireaxe for the prying power of the Crowbar! Wandering the zombie apocalypse as the one Freeman!

When the game is fully developed I'd really like to see military gear as a rare items, with improvised gear and civilian grade weaponry (Hunting weapons/Personal Defense firearms) more the forefront of what's common. You ideas here could be part of such a vision! Though the same can be said for clothes too, I'd like to see more late-game clothing that wasn't necessarily military but could still compete in slot-count.



I'd prefer to look like a rugged scavenger rather than a paramilitary bad ass!
 

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rudette

[jffr363 33]

This sounds like it might just make the game Quest to find Lockpick, which isn't really want dayz is about. Now I get that right now its kinda quest to the airfield, but im not sure the way to fix it is by simply making it Quest for something else.

[dekartz 315]

Wait. What prevents whoever gets a lockpick from server-hopping inside the armory? 

Two lockpicks and you can have all the military gear you want with even less risk than in the mod (Far lower risk of spawning in front of someone as they'd have had to found this item with an astronomically low spawn-rate to have even entered the area where you're spawning).

 

Also, I would consider the danger of most military spawns as a sort of "natural barrier" to getting military gear. At least on a populated server: If you're going to Balota or NWAF or NEAF or even Zelenogorsk, people are far more likely to shoot you in the face if only for the fact that you may be about to or may have looted what they came there for.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Dekartz

[carcinovich 156]

This sounds like it might just make the game Quest to find Lockpick, which isn't really want dayz is about. Now I get that right now its kinda quest to the airfield, but im not sure the way to fix it is by simply making it Quest for something else.

Well, a quest to find nice gear. Lockpicks, depending on their condition, may or may not help you with that. There are other ways to get some of the premium gear, such as banditry, murder, trade, etc.

[carcinovich 156]

Wait. What prevents whoever gets a lockpick from server-hopping inside the armory? 

Two lockpicks and you can have all the military gear you want with even less risk than in the mod (Far lower risk of spawning in front of someone as they'd have had to found this item with an astronomically low spawn-rate to have even entered the area where you're spawning).

Good point. Sounds like a potential exploit.

 

Simple solution is that it could be a safe in the armory, like an object, that you actually cannot spawn inside of.

I'll edit the original post to reflect this. Thanks.

Edited February 6, 2014 by carcinovich

[solartrix 6]

I like it.  It adds a level of realism to the game and makes it more interesting.  You could have:

 

1 - Padlocks on lockers which can be picked, hack-sawed or cut with bolt-cutters - and such tools wear out after a few uses.

2 - Locked doors on houses and desks/cabinets within houses which have to be forced open with a crowbar, fireman's ax or opened with lock picks.

3 - Chained and padlocked gates which provide tactical short-cuts to teams with bolt cutters or hacksaws or lock picks.

4 - Locked cells in the prisons...

5 - Zombies that have been handcuffed to fences or locked inside houses you can let loose to cause more mayhem...  :-)

 

Lots of fun with this.  

[Element47 2481]

gating content is an established mechanism to slow progression. but i fear that the design of dayz is too simple for that.

 

there are many approaches possible:

 

you could have keys being craftable, and the ingredients rare, for example collecting access codes from rare military zombies and crafting a makeshift generator to then be able to unlock military caches

you could add dynamic events that produce keys or ingredients necessary to crafting keys, with such events only to occur every few weeks, rolled out with the weekly maintenance patch and removed with the next.

 

 

the basic question is, does gated content fit into the overall design of dayz?

[djporternz 644]

Overly complex. Simply reducing the spawn rate for military weapons and guns in general would 'gate' gearing up with a much simpler mechanic that is already in game. The Devs have already suggested that these spawn rates will be nerfed again once we have more crafted and civilian weapons in game.

[Rudette 435]

In relation to this system the Zeds themselves (when engineered and tinkered with to have become a real threat) can assist in slowing down the gearing process. Together, this would make for a very hardcore experience, as you'd either need lots of ammunition for your civilian grade arms or friends to get to the good stuff.

Places that spawn high end loot should be infested with zombies. Cities and military bases especially!

Edited February 6, 2014 by Rudette

[carcinovich 156]

Overly complex. Simply reducing the spawn rate for military weapons and guns in general would 'gate' gearing up with a much simpler mechanic that is already in game. The Devs have already suggested that these spawn rates will be nerfed again once we have more crafted and civilian weapons in game.

Reducing the spawn rates will only just reward those who are the most persistent at server-hopping.

[skyline-gtr 130]

I think when there are more zombies and loot respawn system, then this problem which you attempt to solve will not be a problem.

[carcinovich 156]

I think when there are more zombies and loot respawn system, then this problem which you attempt to solve will not be a problem.

What, you think this will stop people from gearing up in less than a couple of hours?

 

Please tell me how.

[skyline-gtr 130]

"There's a serious problem with DayZ, and you know of what I speak: the pilgrimage to the airport. You go there, get "geared up," and -- TADA! --- you're at the end-game. Oh no, Airfield already looted? Time to server hop onto a mostly-empty server. Once you get your M4, then it's only a matter of pimping out your gun with shiny attachments.

At this point, the game begins to lose its charm. Out of boredom, and on the top of the food chain, it's only natural that these people will either stop playing -- or go around and KOS anybody they find. Once you find a can-opener and an M4, the game slowly devolves into PvP.

We need to slow down gearing up so that it's not solved by a single trip to the airport-mecca."

 

Now there is a problem with your analysis, if i may....

You claim the only way to play is to go to airport and gear up. False

You then claim that anyone who has sufficient gear is now bored. False

You then suggest that, some people actually do not go to the airport. Contradiction.

[carcinovich 156]

Now there is a problem with your analysis, if i may....

You claim the only way to play is to go to airport and gear up. False

You then claim that anyone who has sufficient gear is now bored. False

You then suggest that, some people actually do not go to the airport. Contradiction.

I appreciate your response, I really do -- but please, do not put words in my mouth.

I never claimed that "the only way to play is to go to airport and gear up." I am claiming that 'gearing up' is a very, very common and persistent phenomenon.

That, and I never claimed that "anyone who has sufficient gear is now bored." I am claiming that it's natural (likely) that players, once geared up, will find something challenging to do with their time -- and the only thing really all that challenging to be had once geared up is, more-often-than-not, PVP.

There is some subtlety in my words, so I fail to see any contradiction. I'm not speaking in blanket statements of black and white. I'm speaking in generalities. Though if you want to get technical with my words, I'll gladly play that game with you.

[skyline-gtr 130]

So what is your actual problem then ?

Gearing up is too fast ??

A geared up character is bored ??

PVP ??

[jubeidok 495]

Lotta locksmiths in the land of Chernarus?

 

It's just far more simple to make it so that any loot can spawn anywhere. That alone is enough to force people into really exploring the map and getting people out of their loot-run patterns. Because that's the real issue, you know exactly what you can or can't find in a certain area after only playing the game for a short time. When you run into the piano building, if you don't see ammo or a gun on the shelf by the stairs, you instantly know there is no point in searching the rest of the building cause you wont find it anywhere else. I just feel that we the players, are late to the game. Chernarus lost. People died here and there and everywhere, turned, got up and left their goody bags behind.

 

On the flip side, I'm all for locked doors and containers that require you to find a way in, but you shouldn't already know what is waiting for you inside.

[carcinovich 156]

So what is your actual problem then ?

Gearing up is too fast ??

A geared up character is bored ??

PVP ??

Generally speaking, my problem is that gearing up is too exploitable, which in turn leads to gearing up too quickly, which in turn causes the game to become too easy for some, which in turn leads to boredom, which in turn leads to many people to turn to KOS to satiate said boredom (or to tire of the game entirely), which in turn negatively affects the gaming experience for other people who are not playing the KOS game.

And I don't believe that people should be able to just bee-line it for the airports and militarize up in hours (as opposed to days), thus turning this game into Call of Duty in no-time-flat. Maybe that's just my opinion?

 

The idea I was presenting is aimed at attacking the source: Gearing up is too exploitable. Server-hoppers are rewarded with premium, end-game weaponry and equipment far more quickly than the game developers (I'm assuming) ever intended. And the much-cited fix, reducing the spawn rates of premium equipment, in reality actually serves to reward the most dedicated and persistent server-hoppers -- leaving even less premium loot for legitimate players.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I see what you're trying to say, and I respect it.

The solution I'm advocating is more directed towards rewarding premium equipment towards those who actually play the game, over a period of time, instead of rewarding premium equipment towards those who show up at a particular location in the game and then hop around on empty servers until they find what they want.

Does that help?  :huh:

Edited February 6, 2014 by carcinovich

[skyline-gtr 130]

"Generally speaking, my problem is that gearing up is too exploitable, which in turn leads to gearing up too quickly, which in turn causes the game to become too easy for some, which in turn leads to boredom, which in turn leads to many people to turn to KOS to satiate said boredom (or to tire of the game entirely), which in turn negatively affects the gaming experience for other people who are not playing the KOS game."

 

 

Basically your crying about KOS.

 

I agree gearing up is exploitable.

The timescale for gearing up im not clear on this. Could you present your idea of a reasonable amount of time it should take ?

The game becomes to easy for some. Well the game is not to gear up. The game is to have fun. There are many ways to do this, but you need food and water otherwise you will die.

If you are experiencing boredom while playing a game then perhaps you should turn it off.

Killing on site, is going to happen in a sandbox game that has guns anyway. example GTA5, lots of content etc killing other people happens a lot.

Being killed is a part of the game, its going to happen like above. If this ruins the game for you then maybe you should have done some research before buying it.

 

All that being said, there is hopefully more content on the way, so your issue may be solved by that, but I highly doubt KoS is going to disapear, such is the nature of a sandbox game with guns.

[carcinovich 156]

Basically your crying about KOS.

 

...

 

If you are experiencing boredom while playing a game then perhaps you should turn it off.

 

...

 

If this ruins the game for you then maybe you should have done some research before buying it.

 

You're trying too hard to get to me. It's cute. Wanna cuddle?

 

You asked a question, and I answered succinctly with an intelligent, reasonable position. And this is the kind of nonsense I get back? Look, I don't want to be your enemy or get into a little pissing match. I'm trying to improve the game by offering suggestions, and starting an interesting and dynamic discussion, while you're off throwing cheap insults to save face. Stop it.

Edited February 7, 2014 by carcinovich

[skyline-gtr 130]

You're trying too hard to get to me. It's cute. Wanna cuddle?

 

You asked a question, and I answered succinctly with an intelligent, reasonable position. And this is the kind of nonsense I get back? Look, I don't want to be your enemy or get into a little pissing match. I'm trying to improve the game by offering suggestions, and starting an interesting and dynamic discussion, while you're off throwing cheap insults to save face. Stop it.

 

That is simply my interpretation. It is nothing personal. Not intended to cause offence.

I simply address each of your main points and give my view on that.

Now if you would like a dynamic discussion, I suggest you put aside your defensive attitude and present a reasonable, on topic response.

[carcinovich 156]

That is simply my interpretation. It is nothing personal. Not intended to cause offence.

I simply address each of your main points and give my view on that.

Now if you would like a dynamic discussion, I suggest you put aside your defensive attitude and present a reasonable, on topic response.

I'll stop playing defensive when you stop the "if you don't like it then stop crying and leave" hyperbole.

 

That post didn't deserve a response, and you know it.

[skyline-gtr 130]

What exactly was I exaggerating about ?