Raw Mouse Input Is Crucial To Immersion

[sidwulf 69]

You earlier pointed out that you preffered to use less words to explain something. Now you have taken up 5 lines trying to explain what you wrote in the first half of the first line.

so.....

 

"I would like to add that a "360 no scope head shot" is not a feature of raw mouse input in a game like Day Z." has no relevance to what i have posted above. The scenarios were taken from outside of the DayZ game.

So in reply to my post that explains how your entire argument is out of context, you have taken what I have said out of context.

This seems to be a recurring theme.

I suggest that, as you advised me in your patronising post to me, that you take some time to research some of the more technical terms. As there is a clear failure of understanding on your part.

You need to quit deflecting my argument. Did you even read the post?

[27 others 102]

Raw 1:1 input, as the OP describes it, does not necessarily mean that 360 no scopes will be possible, due to a widening of crosshair (if i understood that correctly)

 

If its somehow like my suggestion, watch this video for clarification (from 0:25 onwards):

 

Just look at the crosshair (cyan dot).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxOJLI3h6DE

Edited February 1, 2014 by 27 others

[skyline-gtr 130]

Mate your post is all about why 360 no scope would never exist on DayZ.

While ignoring the fact, that I have effectivley nullified your entire reason for making this thread.

So I suggest that you were in fact deflecting my arguement, whereas I actually addressed your post in my reply.

 

You now seem to be arguing for arguments sake, just relax buddy. Maybe take the advice I suggested.

[wild_man 4442]

this control system is almost exact same like bIS selling to military across planet for training soldier

 

you think they are begging BIS 'please put same like counterstrike for the mouse' :o

 

NO THEY DONT >:(

 

they want something that try to come close to imitate real movement ;)

 

is no perfect but is pretty fucking good when you get used to 

 

is good enough for military training

 

and is good enough for millions who playing arma series and dayz mod and standalone and many other version using same system

 

if you cant adapt then try different game :huh:

Edited February 1, 2014 by KoS

[gibonez 3633]

Only thing that is critical to immersion is the removal of 3rd person view.

[fitzee 248]

Hi.

 

There shouldn't even be a crosshair in this game. Leaving that in was one of Rockets biggest blunders, right up there with 3PP.

 

There's obviously better ways to simulate weapon+gear weight and how it all effects turning speed than using mouse acceleration, but that said, the current method doesn't bother me at all. I have no problem what so ever with aiming, reaction time, or moving(except getting stuck in the occasional doorway, though that has nothing to do with the mouse acceleration). Not sure why people find it so difficult.

 

Either way it doesn't really matter, Rocket will make it however he sees fit, regardless of what the >insert some trashy arcade shooter title here< types think.

 

Regards.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Only thing that is critical to immersion is the removal of 3rd person view.

 

 

Would you like to go into more detail ?

 

There is actually what you suggest already implemented in the game if you go to a hardcore server.

[louist 163]

This games main limit right now if the completely wonky way the character moves. It is like the Resident Evil games of the 90's. The character moves more like a tank than a human.

Agreed. These are some awkward, robotic survivors.

[wild_man 4442]

Only thing that is critical to immersion is the removal of 3rd person view.

 

agree :beans:

 

control system don't have nothing to do with immersion   :D

 

this is weak argument from guy who struggle with controls :huh:

 

he is not alone

 

many guys struggle

 

Dsylecxi call it Armas filter against CoD kids :D

 

they try it

 

they fail :(

 

they get mad >:(

 

they bitch and try to change :o

 

eventually they quit :thumbsup:  :P

Edited February 1, 2014 by KoS

[skyline-gtr 130]

Hi.

 

There shouldn't even be a crosshair in this game. Leaving that in was one of Rockets biggest blunders, right up there with 3PP.

 

There's obviously better ways to simulate weapon+gear weight and how it all effects turning speed than using mouse acceleration, but that said, the current method doesn't bother me at all. I have no problem what so ever with aiming, reaction time, or moving(except getting stuck in the occasional doorway, though that has nothing to do with the mouse acceleration). Not sure why people find it so difficult.

 

Either way it doesn't really matter, Rocket will make it however he sees fit, regardless of what the >insert some trashy arcade shooter title here< types think.

 

Regards.

 

Would you care to share with us some of those obviously better ways please?

[skyline-gtr 130]

Guys please note that perception of immersion is going to vary greatly from person to person.

I for one, cannot be immeresed in an environment while looking at a flat screen and moving with a controller/mouse+keyboard.

[wild_man 4442]

Guys please note that perception of immersion is going to vary greatly from person to person.

I for one, cannot be immeresed in an environment while looking at a flat screen and moving with a controller/mouse+keyboard.

 

 

that is very sad for you :(

 

when I pay Arma or dayz I am completely immerse in the game

 

more than any game I play before ;)

 

is why I love :thumbsup:  :)

[fitzee 248]

Would you care to share with us some of those obviously better ways please?

 

Jesus, are you here just to argue with everyone? Regardless of how they feel about the topic? I'm not saying they should remove mouse acceleration. I'm perfectly happy with the controls the way they are.

 

They could always have the anim speed and inertia change by varying amounts depending on total gear weight, what type of weapon your trying to spin around. But of course the crysis fans will still say controls are wonky, there is no real winning against the anti-realism crowd.

 

But, like KOS and Dsylecxi before him said its ArmA's filter against COD kids. Guess that's about as win as it gets.

 

Regards.

[skyline-gtr 130]

Yes, I agree it is very sad for me :(.

 

Is it possible you have confused the word immersment and engrossment?

[skyline-gtr 130]

Jesus, are you here just to argue with everyone? Regardless of how they feel about the topic? I'm not saying they should remove mouse acceleration. I'm perfectly happy with the controls the way they are.

 

They could always have the anim speed and inertia change by varying amounts depending on total gear weight, what type of weapon your trying to spin around. But of course the crysis fans will still say controls are wonky, there is no real winning against the anti-realism crowd.

 

But, like KOS and Dsylecxi before him said its ArmA's filter against COD kids. Guess that's about as win as it gets.

 

Regards.

 

 

Sorry mate but I did not realise that asking you more about your ideas was an arguement and im genuinly sorry if I have offended you.

You in fact stated that there were obviously better ways, and I simply ask that you share those with us.

[fitzee 248]

Sorry mate but I did not realise that asking you more about your ideas was an arguement and im genuinly sorry if I have offended you.

You in fact stated that there were obviously better ways, and I simply ask that you share those with us.

 

Hey no problem at all. I guess I'm the one who should apologize, I have a way with totally misunderstanding peoples intentions in forum posts.

 

Also my wife tells me daily that I'm a dick :D

 

Regards.

[wild_man 4442]

there was one guy before saying similar about mouse control

 

he make post (I do search but I don't find)

 

he say something like 'I pwn in counterstrike but I sucking at dayz so must be problem with game' :huh:

 

NOPE

 

is problem with your ability to master new skills :D

[skyline-gtr 130]

Hey no problem at all. I guess I'm the one who should apologize, I have a way with totally misunderstanding peoples intentions in forum posts.

 

Also my wife tells me daily that I'm a dick :D

 

Regards.

 

Yeah no worries man!  :P

It happens all the time to be honest.

[altimor 10]

The turn speed limit is not the issue. The acceleration and negative acceleration that doesn't even take moment of inertia into account is.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Altimor

[27 others 102]

[bIS] want something that try to come close to imitate real movement ;)

 

is no perfect but is pretty fucking good when you get used to 

 

is good enough for military training

 

No it`s not pretty fucking good when you get used to. Its still unrealistic and clunky, but if you eat a disgusting meal over and over again, you may come to like it a bit. Yes it is good enough for military training to show the players how group operations, mostly on large terrain, should be executed tactically. In Arma, the player agility is limited a lot (which is a good idea, but in its extent incredibly unrealistic), to make him feel very dependent on his group. Thats the emotion they try to trigger in their soldiers.

Arma`s mouse movement system fits for this very purpose, but not for DayZ. In DayZ, you may need to work alone. And in this case, you should be allowed to have the intuitional agility you would have in real life.

 

The mouse movement BIS brought forward is anything BUT imitating real movement. They tried to countersteer the trend of CoD-like movement, and they overshot it to ridiculous extent. It got even less realistic than those games, if you really inspect it, like i did in my thread.

Edited February 1, 2014 by 27 others

[sidwulf 69]

Guys please note that perception of immersion is going to vary greatly from person to person.

I for one, cannot be immeresed in an environment while looking at a flat screen and moving with a controller/mouse+keyboard.

One of those reasons is that the mouse is a very simple analogue (one thing seen as comparable to another) to the human body. It is impossible to translate skill/strength/weight/momentum into acceptable feedback using the input of an unconventional (not based on or conforming to what is generally done) device. Hopefully this is making more sense. Because of these limitations an indirect method must be used to simulate realism. One such example of this is an expanding cross hair on movement and view panning. Edited February 2, 2014 by SIDWULF

[fitzee 248]

One of those reasons is that the mouse is a very simple analogue (one thing seen as comparable to another) to the human body. It is impossible to translate skill/strength/weight/momentum into acceptable feedback using the input of such an unconventional (not based on or conforming to what is generally done) device. Hopefully this is making more sense. Because of these limitations imposed on the mouse an indirect method must be used to simulate realism. One such example of this is an expanding cross hair on movement and view panning.

 

Hi.

 

Not trying to be a douche(probably am anyway), but you talk about skill and using a cross hair at the same time. I really think the RV engine isn't for you. Although Rocket for some absurd reason leaves that silly dot on screen, the skilled or veteran ArmA players/servers disable that crap. Skilled players don't even need it for accurate hip firing, at least not in ranges that real-world hip firing would be a viable option.

 

Regards.

[sidwulf 69]

Hi.

Not trying to be a douche(probably am anyway), but you talk about skill and using a cross hair at the same time. I really think the RV engine isn't for you. Although Rocket for some absurd reason leaves that silly dot on screen, the skilled or veteran ArmA players/servers disable that crap. Skilled players don't even need it for accurate hip firing, at least not in ranges that real-world hip firing would be a viable option.

Regards.

Thanks for pointing that out. Regardless of cross hair or not the same effect applies. A wider dispersion cone without cross hair would still apply. I use the cross hair as a reference point for the sake of brevity. Edited February 2, 2014 by SIDWULF

[skyline-gtr 130]

One of those reasons is that the mouse is a very simple analogue (one thing seen as comparable to another) to the human body. It is impossible to translate skill/strength/weight/momentum into acceptable feedback using the input of an unconventional (not based on or conforming to what is generally done) device. Hopefully this is making more sense. Because of these limitations an indirect method must be used to simulate realism. One such example of this is an expanding cross hair on movement and view panning.

 

 

Seriously?

Expanding crosshair on movement and view panning is not going to solve any immersion issue for me.

I would say that it would decrease immersion, because who has crosshairs in real life nevermind crosshairs that change size when i move.

 

The point of a flat scren and mouse+keyboard breaking immersion for me is because in real life I do see things in three dimensions whilst a flat screen can only display two, and a mouse+keyboard breaks immersion for me because it is not comprable to using your hands at all, it is in fact a middle man in the process.

 

Agin you were using abolutes while being wrong. Your reason being that it portray that it would mean that you are not confident in your subject. Which is wrong, because the subject is actually a matter of opinion.

Using, I "think" or similar would actually show a better understanding of the subject, because in this case it is rather subjective, since this particular quote of yours was in fact in reply to my own personal experience and opinion of immersion.

Edited February 2, 2014 by Skyline-GTR

[sidwulf 69]

Seriously?

Expanding crosshair on movement and view panning is not going to solve any immersion issue for me.

I would say that it would decrease immersion, because who has crosshairs in real life nevermind crosshairs that change size when i move.

The point of a flat scren and mouse+keyboard breaking immersion for me is because in real life I do see things in three dimensions whilst a flat screen can only display two, and a mouse+keyboard breaks immersion for me because it is not comprable to using your hands at all, it is in fact a middle man in the process.

Agin you were using abolutes while being wrong. Your reason being that it portray that it would mean that you are not confident in your subject. Which is wrong, because the subject is actually a matter of opinion.

Using, I "think" or similar would actually show a better understanding of the subject, because in this case it is rather subjective, since this particular quote of yours was in fact in reply to my own personal experience and opinion of immersion.

Oh ffs...

Instead of constantly rehashing and refrasing my replies I will just copy and paste.

"Thanks for pointing that out. Regardless of cross hair or not the same effect applies. A wider dispersion cone without cross hair would still apply. I use the cross hair as a reference point for the sake of brevity."

Edited February 2, 2014 by SIDWULF