Guns - What Should Be Done?

[Rastino 3]

There aren't guns that shoot identical 7.62 rounds in the game. Sure, the bullet itself is the same, but the 7.62x59r (mosin) and the 7.62x39 (SKS/AK47) are much different. the 7.62x59r has much more gunpowder behind it.

I get that it was just me augmenting that the damage from weapons should be bullet specific and not based on the gun. If I’m hit with a shot from a G17 and one from a Sig P226 chambered for a 9x19 parabellum they should do the same damage to my body. 

I should have been more specific my bad.

[Gladius270 14]

I get that it was just me augmenting that the damage from weapons should be bullet specific and not based on the gun. If I’m hit with a shot from a G17 and one from a Sig P226 chambered for a 9x19 parabellum they should do the same damage to my body. 

I should have been more specific my bad.

 

In that case, I agree with you. There may be very small differences in accuracy/muzzle velocity based on barrel lengths and the action of the weapon, but I don't think a game needs to get mired in differences that are so small.

[jffr363 33]

In that case, I agree with you. There may be very small differences in accuracy/muzzle velocity based on barrel lengths and the action of the weapon, but I don't think a game needs to get mired in differences that are so small.

This very much true, although a few instances it might be good, mainly with the M16 vs M4 if they include the M16. It actually has a significantly higher muzzle velocity due to the longer barrel. But yeah in most cases its probably pointless

[deebz1234 243]

agreed on more civ weapons...but you should know the sks and mosin are civ weapons "these days"

 

mil surp rifles are extremely affordable and very durable.

 they are very popular for civilians.

 

hey, i own a mosin and an sks in real life...

 

the sks is known to be "the poor mans deer rifle" here in Canada haha.

 

also if i had a .22, id be right up the m4 dudes arse with it.

 

.22 rimfile is plenty to kill a man

[Gladius270 14]

AK/SKS are definitely widely available as civilian weapons. AKs that are available to civilians are generally semi auto unless they are modded. I know many people who use the AK for a deer gun. Ammo is cheap and widely available for the caliber.

[jffr363 33]

What might be interesting to see is a better representation of weapon durability. The M4 despite being fairly reliable, can be finicky if not cleaned regularly, while robust and less complex weapons, like the ak47 and mosin are famous for working despite just about any amount of dirt and grime. This could help offset the better performance seen in military grade weapons like the m4. Make them not only rare, but a pain in the ass to keep in working order. But if you can get a Mosin, you know no matter what, it will work. 

[Weedz 1105]

Yeah, but it took you 50 stabs, it only takes one nuke.

 

My point is saying two things are equally lethal because they both can kill is silly.

If you shoot 2 people in the chest from say 50m away, one with a .22 and one with a 5.56, which one suffers worse injury? Which one is more likely to die if treated? Which one dies faster if untreated?

It is much easier to get 15+ doctorates in various fields such as physics, metallurgy, rocketry / avionics depending on how you're delivering the nuke, nuclear fission, etc.. etc... and construct a nuclear bomb than it is for me to pick up a knife and stab you in the face with 1 knife amiright?

 

Again, logic, stop trying it.

[deepfried 95]

Yeah, but it took you 50 stabs, it only takes one nuke.

 

My point is saying two things are equally lethal because they both can kill is silly.

If you shoot 2 people in the chest from say 50m away, one with a .22 and one with a 5.56, which one suffers worse injury? Which one is more likely to die if treated? Which one dies faster if untreated?

 

What are you on about? you realise 5.56mm is the metric version of .223 right? its the same damn bullet.

 

Edited January 31, 2014 by Continuity

[Weedz 1105]

When you say that the civilian guns should be a lot weaker than the military guns, then you do realize that two identical 7.62 bullets fired from two different guns will do the same damage to a human body.

Another little note is that it is only in the movies and some games that you hit what you like hip firing full auto.

Most civilian guns actually have faster muzzle velocities and more deadly bullets because there isn't 100+ years of worldwide regulations to make them cause less damage. The only difference between "military" and "civilian" guns is the fun switch.

[jffr363 33]

What are you on about? you realise 5.56mm is the metric version of .223 right? its the same damn bullet.

5.56x45 Nato round used in weapons such as the M4 vs the .22lr rim fire cartridge...

They are most definitely not the same bullet

[Gladius270 14]

What are you on about? you realise 5.56mm is the metric version of .223 right? its the same damn bullet.

 

They are very close in measurement as far as diameter goes. They are nowhere near the same in bullet weight, length, casing length, amount of gunpowder, or ballistics. Hell, one is rimfire, the other is a centerfire.

 

Have you touched a rifle?

[jffr363 33]

Most civilian guns actually have faster muzzle velocities and more deadly bullets because there isn't 100+ years of worldwide regulations to make them cause less damage. The only difference between "military" and "civilian" guns is the fun switch.

What do you mean? You referring to hollow points? Cause the only regulations regarding ammo for militaries is against expanding rounds. Their no regulation saying they have to reduce velocity or something. But your right, calling weapons "civilian" or "military" is a little pointless, all it does is describe who uses it. The difference between a civilian colt ar-15 and m4 is just the selective fire.

[deepfried 95]

They are very close in measurement as far as diameter goes. They are nowhere near the same in bullet weight, length, casing length, amount of gunpowder, or ballistics. Hell, one is rimfire, the other is a centerfire.

 

Have you touched a rifle?

 

Who says we're talking about rim fire ammo? You think all .22 ammo is rim fire?

 

.223 Remington can be use interchangeably with 5.56 so the casing is almost identical, as you can see in my image above.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Continuity

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

Pray tell why should civilian arms be less deadly????????

 

My favorite rifle is my Remington 700 in 7mm rem mag, it is accurate and lethal well beyond 800m, accepts 3 and 8 round magazines, has a bi-pod and a 6-24 scope.

 

In comparison to the M4 it shoots a bullet with 2.5 times the weight, faster with more than double the muzzle energy.

 

In comparison to the Mosin (now a civie weapon anyway) it fires a round of comparable weight faster with more muzzle energy.

 

In comparison to an AK/SKS It fires a bullet either the same or heavier, about 1000 feet per second faster, with about twice the muzzle energy.

 

In addition to all of those advantages the ammunition civilian weapons fire is of the type signatories of the Hague Peace conference agreed not to use, bullets designed to expand and do more damage. despite shooting expanding rounds it will punch through any ballistic armor currently in use.

 

There are loads that preform better than those I am using for all of the rounds mentioned (including the 7mm Remington magnum), I used the most common.

 

Now the 7mm as a civilian cartridge is cool and all, I like it for its flat trajectory and stopping power, but its one of the smaller magnum rounds, heck its based on the popular dangerous game round the 375 H&H

 

This is just one example i could provide dozens of others.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2014 by Franchi

[Gladius270 14]

Most civilian guns actually have faster muzzle velocities and more deadly bullets because there isn't 100+ years of worldwide regulations to make them cause less damage. The only difference between "military" and "civilian" guns is the fun switch.

 

I'd say that the military doesn't use a great variety of calibers/rounds relative to what is available. There is a huge variety of rounds on the market to account for individual needs of the consumer, from home defense to target shooting to hunting. There are some rounds that the military does not use that might have better ballistics, but wouldn't make sense for military applications due to price and availability. It also makes sense to standardize a round that is efficient and relatively cheap to manufacture for the military simply due to how much needs to be ordered.

[jffr363 33]

Who says we're talking about rim fire ammo? You think all .22 ammo is rim fire?

My earlier comment about the difference between 5.56 and .22 was specifically about the 5.56x45 nato and the .22lr. The .22lr was being discussed earlier. Perhaps I should have been clearer. But you could have read the other posts and it would have made sense.

[Gladius270 14]

Who says we're talking about rim fire ammo? You think all .22 ammo is rim fire?

 

.223 Remington can be use interchangeably with 5.56 so the casing is almost identical, as you can see in my image above.

.22lr is a rimfire round. We are talking specifically about that cartridge in relation to this game (I've heard the Ruger 10/22 mentioned, and maybe a .22 pistol). There are centerfire versions (magnum, wildcat, among others), but I've heard no mention of those being in the game. I'm not arguing that 5.56 and .223 are different rounds. I'm arguing that it's a stretch to say that a .22lr bullet is anywhere near the same with regards to ballistics as a 5.56 nato or 223.

[deepfried 95]

.22lr is a rimfire round. We are talking specifically about that cartridge in relation to this game (I've heard the Ruger 10/22 mentioned, and maybe a .22 pistol). There are centerfire versions (magnum, wildcat, among others), but I've heard no mention of those being in the game. I'm not arguing that 5.56 and .223 are different rounds. I'm arguing that it's a stretch to say that a .22lr bullet is anywhere near the same with regards to ballistics as a 5.56 nato or 223.

 

Fair enough, I didn't read though enough of the thread to catch on that .22lr was being referred to.

[Gladius270 14]

Let's call it a day on this issue. haha.

 

I didn't mean to incite an internet peen measuring contest, of which I willfully participated in and encouraged. My apologies.

[Franchi (DayZ) 146]

Let's call it a day on this issue. haha.

 

I didn't mean to incite an internet peen measuring contest, of which I willfully participated in and encouraged. My apologies.

But we are just getting to the gun porn!

[jffr363 33]

I'm all for gun porn :)

By the way, that rem 700 is beautiful

[Gladius270 14]

Would love to see some more traditional sporting/hunting rifles in the game if they don't break immersion.

 

Marlin 336 in 30/30 would be amazing. Beautiful gun.

 

I also agree a Remington 700 would be great. Maybe chambered in .30-06 or .308.

 

[Soupee 57]

M4 4-5 shot kill?! Im all for balancing weapon damage, but the 5.56 mm round is deadly especially in the 100-200m range. Inside of 200m the M4 should be a 3 shot kill MAX maybe, honestly a 2 shot kill is good. People may say that's overpowered, but there is a reason NATO uses 5.56 mm guns, it is a very effective round. There should probably be more damage drop off at range though, especially beyond 400m. The 5.56 lethality goes way down out at that range.

 

The python I agree should probably be a 2 shot kill. 

 

The FNX as a .45 should be deadly at close range, 3 shot kill max, but should loose damage and accuracy real quick, at 50m easily more like 4 shots.

 

The SKS and AKM/47 are more difficult to balance, they should be less accurate, especially at range than the M4, but do similar damage at around 100m or so, but it should probably keep its damage out to longer range better than an M4 on account of its bigger bullet. So it should be hard to land those 500m shots with it, but it should do some monster damage at that range.

 

I agree the mosin is almost perfect :) the 7.62x54r is a big nasty round

 

Actually I think one of the reasons the smaller caliber weapons have come to favor is because as a general rule an army would rather injure their targets than kill them outright.  An army on the move is slowed down/burdened by a bunch of wounded soldiers vs. outright dead ones.

[jffr363 33]

Yes to the marlin! Although if they add the M24 the rem 700 would be pointless unless its in some different cartridge

[Gladius270 14]

Yes to the marlin! Although if they add the M24 the rem 700 would be pointless unless its in some different cartridge

Didn't realize the M24 may be on the horizon. Rem 700 would be unnecessary at that point.

 

I think the Marlin 336 could be my favorite gun of all. I absolutely love shooting the one that I've got IRL. It's a joy to shoot.